Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

euphonium

You are an average Joe - not qualified to drive 90 mph in any car and the professional race car driver who is qualified knows better than to drive that reckless.

What are you over compensating for?

fintail

How do you know his driving credentials? :P

I drove long stretches in Germany at 120+, didn't have a single problem. Nothing reckless about it in the world. A competent driver in a competent car can handle 90 without a problem. It might be risky in a 15 year old TC, but even a 10 year old E-class can do it without breathing hard.

It's a lot less overcompensating than those who camp out in the left lane at 5 under or who weave in and out off traffic in jacked up trucks and SUVs. It's also hard to to take driving lectures from drivers of cars with little handling ability, like the guy in the DeVille who whined to the original poster.

fintail

I love the threatening to call the cops line. I once had some old [non-permissible content removed] give me that one because I cut across an empty parking lot at a speed he didn't like. I replied to him "go ahead, call them, and I will call you in as a suspected drunk". The old fool didn't have a reply, and walked away.

I'd have done the same to anyone in a Lexus SUV.

You should see Seattle in the snow. Armageddon.

euphonium

The Washington State Traffic Commission is announcing a statewide campaign against speeders called "Slow Down or Pay Up."

Police and Washington State Patrol officials are attending a news conference Thursday in Seattle to announce details.

The crackdown will start Friday.

oregonboy

Sounds more like a fund-raiser than a crack down. Is Washington state having budgetary problems perhaps? :sick:

fintail

They'll camp out and cherry-pick the inattentive, like normal. Not very alarming to me. As long as they don't support putting big dots on a crowded interstate, it's cool :P

This area already has some of the slowest most oblivious drivers I have ever seen...slow em down more, yeah, sounds like a plan.

snakeweasel

This area already has some of the slowest most oblivious drivers I have ever seen

Apparently you have never driven in rural Iowa.

euphonium

Less than Killagoosie's state South of the Columbia.

fintail

Take a nice drive from Tacoma to Everett, then a fun spin along the length of 405, then a few merges onto various highways from Bellevue or Seattle proper...it has to be at least as bad as podunk :shades:

Driving in rural WA, at least east of the mountains, is generally pleasant....slowpokes keep right.

snakeweasel

In Iowa the farmers get in their pick up trucks or Buicks and think they are still on their combine cursing at 5 MPH. There is a reason Iowa means Idiots Out Wandering Around.

oregonboy

and think they are still on their combine cursing at 5 MPH

What are they cursing at as they drive their combines?

I can just imagine these old redneck geezers bouncing across the fields in their combines cursing away, "Gol-darn liberal pinko democrat politician death panel socialist health program gonna take away my gol-darn Social Security!"

snakeweasel

I just imagine them grinning as they drive their combines and tractors going down a road tying up traffic as they speed down the road at 5 MPH.

fintail

That's what downshifts were invented for :shades:

the_big_al

I don't see it much anymore, but where I grew up it was farm country. Every farmhand drove deliberately about 13 MPH from field to field. All the better to maximize that $4.25 per hour he was making... I see the same syndrome affecting government workers here too. They drive about 5 MPH under the limit... all in the name of "safety". They also take all corners that have the yellow MPH signs at 10 MPH under that speed too, when usually those signs mean (to steal a phrase from snake) that a 1952 London Double Decker can go around the corner at that speed... :sick:

tallman1

As a former government worker who lives in western Washington and whose mother is from Iowa... is there a doctor in the house???? :sick:

jensad

HI fintail

Does your state have a law to cite very slow moving drivers in the left lanes? We can in CA, usually someone traveling 50 in a 65, or like the car I stopped years ago, 20mph in the left lane of IS 80, speed limit of then 65 mph near Emeryville.

I recommended a re-test at DMV to see if he should continue to drive. He was in his 80s and I hated to do the retest but he was causing a real much bottleneck.

Good luck to all and stay safe.

jensad

tallman1

Actually, Washington has a law to cite drivers who are going the speed limit in the far left lane if they are impeding others. Freeways have a 45 mph minimum too.

RCW 46.61.100 "(4) It is a traffic infraction to drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of other traffic."

euphonium

How can there be an impediment when the LLC is going the speed limit?

The law implies that if the flow of traffic is doing 80, then get out of the way so as to not impede, thus lowering the meaningful value of the Speed Limit.

Oh, I forgot the Liberals from the Gov on down are ruinning things. :sick:

fintail

Yeah, like was posted, there is a LLC law, but I am willing to wager it has never been enforced. Hard to enforce, even harder to fine, so there's no money in it. As with most areas, traffic policing is revenue-oriented. The cops are smart enough to give a little leeway as not to create a backlash...and then the disguised taxation gets going.

Today's winners:

Camry that wouldn't take its free right turn. Had about 15-20 cars piled up behind it before the light changed.

Woman in a beat up early Highlander who was vigorously eating while weaving around and going faster than every other car in traffic. One hand on the top of the wheel...a good sign of an idiot.

CRV that slowed down to about 5mph on a 30mph road and slowly trudged around a corner.

Jeep Cherokee with black tinted windows that made a right turn from the left lane on a crowded street. I'll wager that one was a phone yapper.

fintail

Yeah, conservatives never speed or drive like idiots :shades:

The guy in the Rossi-stickered white Lexus LS I saw on I5 near Tacoma who was weaving around in the middle of the road while using an electric razor must have been a hallucination

And the less evolved who fly down local highways in jacked up diesel trucks probably all voted for Obama...right :shades:

I think idiotic driving escapes any political affiliation.

Oh yeah, and the speed limit lost "meaningful value" eons ago. It's a number to observe to avoid a fine, nothing more.

snakeweasel

to steal a phrase from snake

That wasn't me. But I am glad you are thinking of me. :shades:

I see the same syndrome affecting government workers here too

Hey I resemble that remark.

the_big_al

oops... i guess it was fintail... couldn't remember offhand, but knew the phrase had been used before here...

tallman1

The law implies that if the flow of traffic is doing 80, then get out of the way so as to not impede, thus lowering the meaningful value of the Speed Limit.

Actually the law doesn't "imply" anything. It is very clear. Here's a link to the whole thing (which I've posted before... can't believe we're still hearing the same arguments): RCW 46.61.100

I'm not sure why anyone would consider this a liberal/conservative thing. It certainly isn't a new law, it's been around for 25 years. Some parts were even written as early as 1965.

euphonium

It's good to read where the RCW refers to speeding motorhomes, towing cars, traveling in the Left lane on three lanes one way. I travel I 5 frequently & have never seen an 18 wheeler pulled over for being in the wrong lane, a LLC doing the speed limit, or any rig violating any lane travel. It's a "feel good" reg, but not enforced.

elias

the posted speed limit is merely a suggestion, euphie. (it's a sort of lower-bound.)
realistically, the actual highway speed limit is set by the highway patrol officer, using the prima-facie speed law.

during rush hour, the traffic near here in MA in the 65 zone travels 80+, sometimes far above 80 - every weekday.
the cops generally allow it, often radaring the traffic as it zips by at ~80.

I know one guy who was cited for failure-to-move-right on a 3 lane highway - he hadn't noticed the state trooper tailgating him at 80 mph in the left lane. He also got cited for 80 in a 65 - but the trooper told him that 80 mph was actually a fine speed for that road, and that the only reason he got pulled over was the failure-to-move-right.

tallman1

I'll agree that I don't see anyone pulled over for LLCing. But then again, I see cars alongside the road that have been pulled over and I have no idea why.

Here's a link to a news story that I've posted before: Poking Along in the Left Lane?. Some were getting pulled over a couple of years ago.

Finally, I know a guy who got pulled over for driving in the left lane on the freeway. He was quite put out since he was going the speed limit.

euphonium

while driving in the Left (smoothest) lane maybe 2 or 3 mph faster than the speed limit, you notice one of the following approaching at a high rate, BMW, MB, Toy, Vette, Camaro, Mustang etc, and wonder why should I accomodate them by getting the Hell out of their,assumed more important, path?

oregonboy

1) Because it's the LAW, (at least in many states around here)

2) Because it's the courteous thing to do.

3) Because it makes for a safer pass for all involved parties.

4) Because the overtaking vehicle might be an unmarked cop on a donut run.

5) Because the driver in the overtaking car may have had a fight with his wife this morning, been fired from his job at the Post Office this afternoon, stopped off at the bar for a couple of beers with his NRA buddies after work, and is now late for the Gun Show at the fairgrounds with a dozen AK-47s in his back seat.

stever

Someone impeding the flow of traffic is a hazard to other drivers - in all lanes.

fintail

It works pretty well in areas where people actually know how to drive, so it should work over here too :shades:

imidazol97

>approaching at a high rate, BMW, MB, Toy, Vette, Camaro, Mustang etc, and wonder why should I accomodate them by getting the Hell out of their,assumed more important, path?

What I do is gauge the person's attitude by seeing if they are using the right lane and are only in the left lane for passing, or are they using the left lane as their own superhighway because it's smoother and they don't like changing lanes and everyone should get out of their way if they want to go faster... But everyone else should do lane changes to free the left lane for their exaggerated speeds.

oregonboy

Maybe you should have them complete a personality profile before you allow them to pass. :P

snakeweasel

All they would need is permission from the governor to break the law.

tallman1

oregonboy's five points are all excellent. I'm not sure why some drivers think they need to control others. Seems to be a good example of passive aggressive behavior. And in this day and age of road rage, it's crazy to try to make another driver angry.

I'm sure the majority of speeding drivers just want to go fast. However, let's pretend that a man just got a call from his hysterical wife that their daughter was just taken to the ER for some horrible injury. Should he be speeding? No. Would most people speed in that situation, including me? Yes. Do you really want to be the smug LLC who holds him up?

euphonium

1) Because it's the LAW, (at least in many states around here)
If you want to apply the LAW in this case, it applies to the Speeder does it not.

2) Because it's the courteous thing to do.
That's a ruse to con a driver to think it is rude to block others when it isn't.

3) Because it makes for a safer pass for all involved parties.
Better than average drivers are able to pass on either side, makes no difference.

4) Because the overtaking vehicle might be an unmarked cop on a donut run
For him to slow down is beneficial to his health.

5) Because the driver in the overtaking car may have had a fight with his wife etc.
Extremely remote situations and probablilty

"The guy in a line of smooth lane drivers is passive agressive."
That interpretation reveals more about you than the driver.

the_big_al

My thoughts on this are if I were the one being overtaken (unlikely, but probable), I would move over if I could. This is to mean that if I were in the left lane only because it is a smoother lane of travel as compared to the right. Although if I am being overtaken, and it is very obvious that I am being overtaken, then this person is going well over the limit as I am probably already at least 5 over if not closer to 10 over. Typically, I am already moving faster than the right lane traffic, or if the way is clear, I am going between 5-9 over the limit as that seems to be the "courtesy" threshold allowed.

Now if I am the only one on the road I will move over if I happen to be in the left lane because it is a better travel lane. If not and the right lane has heavy traffic, I will typically stay in the left lane as opposed to constantly switching lanes. When possible and a gap opens up in the right lane I will move over. Now if notice a following car approaching at a higher rate and it isn't possible for me to move over without cutting someone off, then they will just have to wait until I get to a spot that is safe. I will often increase my speed by 1 or 2 mph to accomplish this faster (unless I am already doing 10 over, then I won't go faster). This is generally fast enough to get me by any slower moving traffic in the right lane at a good rate.

Now if I am on the open highway and I see that I am approaching someone in the left lane at a much higher rate of speed than they are going I will watch them and see if they notice me and move over, but if they don't and I can see no intention of them moving over and the right lane is clear, then I will move over to the right lane before I roar up on their bumper, pass them and continue on my way. If traffic is heavier and the right lane has lots of traffic, then all I can do is slow down and wait for a chance to get by...

tallman1

No one is going to change everyone's mind about this but we can talk about the law and explain our opinions on courtesy and safety.

Euphonium and Fintail both live in Washington state. Euph likes to drive in the far left lane because it is smoother. He feels it is his right because he pays taxes on those roads. He is breaking the law.

Fin likes to drive faster than the speed limit because he thinks they are arbitrary and he has a car that is capable of higher speeds. He wants LLCs to move out of the way so that he doesn't get held up. He is breaking the law.

I'm in the middle and I'm guessing that most posters around here are too. Excessive speeders do irk me at times but I learned long ago that it wasn't my job to control them. If I see them pulled over down the road I do feel better.

LLCs also irk me. Most of the time they are simply oblivious to the situation. Sometimes you find someone who is doing it deliberately. There isn't much one can do. Tailgating is dangerous so passing on the right is the only option. Sadly, I won't see an LLC pulled over because I'll be down the road.

Hopefully, no one gets hurt in either situation.

fintail

Hey, I don't speed that much...rarely more than 10-15 over unless in a short spurt to pass or listen to the exhaust note :shades: ...but around here, sometimes going 5 under makes you the fastest car on the road (clear day, light traffic) , and many people pick whatever lane they like most, speed not being a factor. There's a lot more to taking driving seriously than minding a speed limit set by overpaid underworked people who don't have to defend their actions.

I also have no problem with passing on the right or even blipping the thottle and using the carpool lane to pass.

xrunner2

re big al procedures. I generally do as big al describes. These are very thoughtful, considerate and mature procedures. I don't care what speed someone coming up on my mirror is doing. If they want to go faster than I, who am I to block them. Courteous thing to do is move over when practicable and let them by.

Do same as big al re left lane blocker. If they are not astute, polite with it, to be watching their mirror and move over, then don't hassle them, just wait for the opp in the right lane and get around them without fanfare, raised fists or fingers. Just get by hassle free and move on. Life is too short.

oregonboy

2) Because it's the courteous thing to do.
That's a ruse to con a driver to think it is rude to block others when it isn't.
et al

"There is none so blind as he who will not see." - J.Swift

No point in trying to change your mind.

I travel in the right land almost all the time, for a number of reasons. I won't even have to change lanes to pass you and I will be on down the road. :shades:

jwilliams2

Agreed. That is exactly what I do. Still think most left lane campers are either ignorant or oblivious. Hate to think otherwise.

snakeweasel

I agree with you on this. I typically stay in the right lane except to 1.) pass, 2.) for one of the few left side exits in abd around the Chicago area and 3.) in Chicago expressways that all have 3 or more lanes then I typically stay in a middle lane due to all the traffic entering and leaving from the far right lane. Now if I am in the left lane and passing someone I will pull over to the right when it is safe to do so with out me adjusting my speed.

What I really hate is the ones that are so impatient that they ride my bumper then cut into the right lane the instant they get 0.000001 inches of clearance from the car we passed without giving me the chance to safely move over without cutting off the driver we just passed.

I am also in the belief that if one is going at least the SL then anyone behind them has no grounds to complain.

3233

In Georgia you would be OK legally, since the new law against LLCers only restricts people from doing UNDER the limit if I'm correct. I wouldn't mind passing you on the right if traffic was pretty light, and even if it was heavier at least the middle lane usually does 5 or so over around here. I wouldn't tailgate you or try to intimidate you because I'm probably trying to get somewhere on time, and dealing with road rage (not implying that you would have it personally, just a general thing) doesn't seem to help get me there any faster. And finally, I hate when people assume that people going over the limit, especially those in fancy cars (which mine is...or was a decade ago :P ) are automatically arrogant and self-centered. I'm not going fast to impress people, to show off, to show how "important" I am, I'm going fast to minimize my time on the road and get to my destination more quickly.

If you want to stay in the left lane at around the speed limit, then that's your right, at least in my state. I just hope you understand that most of us wanting you to move over don't consider ourselves more important than you. Half the time I'll take the initiative and pass you on the right, when appropriate. We just want to get from A to B as quickly as reasonably possible.

bolivar

Please, please, please let's not start the left lane campers (LLC) argument.

About 5 years ago in some forum here it was a long, long back and forth. With one guy, name I can't remember, always posting his reason for LLCing, and various others flaming back at him.

All to no effect. No one's opinion was changed. I do have a strong opinion about this but will not post it.

The best thing to do with this topic is to let it drop..

snakeweasel

. I just hope you understand that most of us wanting you to move over don't consider ourselves more important than you. Half the time I'll take the initiative and pass you on the right, when appropriate. We just want to get from A to B as quickly as reasonably possible.

So what other laws do you break to get from A to B as "quickly as reasonably as possible". Do you go through red lights? Not stop at stop signs?

elias

LLC is a great topic. It's a prime example of inconsiderate driving.
Those who proudly admit to LLC-ing are admitting to be horribly inconsiderate drivers, and this forum appears is the perfect place for such discussions.

One way to handle LLCers is to politely out-LLC them when you get a chance. Politely/safely pull in front of them and veeeeery gradually reduce speed to the minimum legal highway speed (45 mph) (or 10 mph below the LLC's previous speed.)

This technique can "break the logjam" that the LLCer has intentionally created, allowing the normal/considerate 4-wheelers and bigrigs to pass on the right conveniently, in states where that's legal. Many other drivers recognize the great consideration of this maneuver and are thankful. Others less so.

imidazol97

>Politely/safely pull in front of them and veeeeery gradually reduce speed to the minimum legal highway speed (45 mph) (or 10 mph below the LLC's previous speed.)

Here we go with someone thinking they are the "policemen" and they should "show" the person who's not going enough over the speed limit in the left lane. In doing so they are certainly breaking laws.

fintail

So the original LLC is the only one who is allowed to break laws? :shades:

stever

I'd just think you were the LLC and the other guy was tailgating you to try to get you to move over.

vcheng

"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"

Just like I cannot out-idiot an idiot, I can NEVER out-LLC the experienced and dedicated LLC.