in modern cars that offer so little rearward visibility
for the sake of musguided "safety" concerns, I would add.
[passive safety - high greenhouse line - minuscle windows / pedestrian safety - high (and ugly!) bulbous hood / rollover passive safety - reinforced roof / poor visibility and maneuvrability - poor accident avoidance - more chance of an accident - but at least you are promised to survive if you are lucky. And your insurance picks up the tab ... oh, wait, where insurers take their money from???]
What I tried to say that even though you yourself as a driver burn less gas in a hybrid, but all that difference was already spent for producing more complicated engines (2 instead of one, electrical and gasoline engines) and ecologically very dubious batteries, and you paid for it already in the form of higher up-front costs. You should drive really-really a lot for it to make economical/ecological sense. Which is in itself decidedly non-green ;-)
..."My problem would be that I'd drive more if I got twice as good of gas mileage."..
My take here: that is YOUR business. Why control a crates want to make it theirs, is an unacceptable encroachment on our personal and collective freedoms.
Well, I'm overdue to replace a car (but I'm being green by driving mine into the ground).
I don't think the manufacturing costs between a hybrid and a regular car are going to be much different over the lifetime of the car. I'd love to have a hybrid so long as the price is fair and the vehicle itself meets my hauling needs. There's a laser printer on my desk that costs more than inkjets, but it uses less ink, aka "fuel". I'll pay a bit more for a car too (in actual dollars or in the "green" component) in order to save later at the pumps.
Back to parking, around here I almost always can pull through a space so the car is pointing out into the aisle. That's green too; no need to stop and back up at any time in the parking lot. :shades:
Funny how being green is a nice way of saying frugal, lol.
The biggest thing most idjits around here forget to do when entering the left lane when there is heavy traffic on the road... is to speed up to the current rate of speed in the lane.
Let's make this more personal... when I drive 65 mph on the highway I can achieve over 40 mpg in a compact rated 34 mpg highway. When I go 75 (which I can't legally do in any state I travel in), I am lucky to hit 35. That's a 14%+ improvement.
Let's forget about what China is doing. We can't directly affect how much oil China and other countries use. But the less oil we use in the USA, the easier it is for us to become energy-independent. As demand falls, prices will also fall. But even more important perhaps, there are other benefits to the USA to be energy independent.
Choose to do your little part by driving economically, or not. I don't find it a burden to do so, so I do it. And I save money every time I fill up my cars.
* Backing maneuver is less safe than straight-in. * Backing maneuver takes longer, holds up other traffic in the lane longer. * My own experience is that cars that have backed in do a poorer job of centering their vehicles. More chance for door dings, more inconsiderate of vehicles near you.
Usually I have good luck picking a parking spot on the edge of a lot or otherwise not close to other vehicles. I bet wrong the other day, as there were smallish 4-door sedans on either side of me when I pulled in, but as I was leaving the huge Ram truck pulled into one of the spaces.
The part I'd like would be driving past the gas station. But I'm probably not hitting 10k a year on both cars combined lately.
But we did blow off a road trip to Alaska this summer, partly because of the gas expense. Seems like we dropped $800 just on gas last August two years ago getting up to Newfoundland.
I think your assuming acceleration, passing, and then getting back over (as on a 2 lane highway (one lane each direction). However, I was thinking on a multi 4+ lane freeway, you never need to accelerate, and you can just keep left until after you pass. You can be cruising along at 85 MPH in the left most lane, and the guy doing 70 just need not camp in the left lane, move over, and the pass will easily be made in 5 seconds. If the camper gets over in time, there is no need to slow down or speed up, you just make the pass at the speed you were already going.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I don't drive near 10K either, which makes my guzzler tolerable. That, and it is fun, I still get my money's worth every time I push it just a little.
In a couple weeks I will be in Germany, and for several days I will have a car, which will suck down money fast. But it should be worth the experience.
Cars are inconsiderate that way. They suck down money just sitting there (looking at my Subaru tag renewal right now - there's another $100 bucks gone. )
If people exercise proper lane discipline and courtesy, speed differentials become highly inconsequential.
The problem with speed differentials is that the campers are forcing faster moving traffic to pass on the right which creates more congestion and speed differential in an unexpected manner. You now have to account for faster traffic on the right and the left, when you should always be able to count on people from behind passing on the left.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
it is not really much worse than to accept an arbitrary, demeaning and undignified ban on open alcohol containers in the car.
Does the ban on open alcholic containers apply to buses; such as a party bus? I know people don't pay attention to that rule if they are on their own bus/motorhome. I bet the law has some inane exceptions for large vehicles/trucks.
I find it funny that some states do not want truck drivers to have radar detectors, as a guy in a big rig would be the hardest to prove criminal in that regard as they'd have a minute or two to remove the evidence before the cop gets within eye-distance to the cockpit.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
The big difference is that I can get business done on my cell phone, and be productive.
To my knowledge, there are not many jobs where you can get business done or be productive by drinking alcohol (though let me know if there are any openings for taste testers) :P
Also, my cell phone costs a lot more than a beer. I can forgo the use of my beer without severe economic loss. Tell me I can't use my expensive phone in a car and now I'm enduring severe economic loss as I can't get as much use out of my expensive device.
Telling a passenger their cell phone shouldn't work while they are in a moving car is akin to telling all passengers they must zip their lips for the duration of the trip; talking should be outlawed then!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
My passes will take longer than 5 seconds, since I won't be going 85.
Not going to TX anytime soon?
I rarely go 85 these days, I top out at about 81/82 as I don't want to get in the eyesights of any revenue enforcers. The CHP is a sophisticated money-making machine!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
If people exercise proper lane discipline and courtesy, speed differentials become highly inconsequential.
Of course, that includes courtesy on the part of those flying along at far over the speed limit, would you not agree? On a busy freeway, it can be difficult for passers going at or a bit over the limit to find an opening to pass in the left lane. That's where courtesy on the part of those going well over the limit comes into play. Don't crowd people trying to pass slow cars. It might mean the fast cars have to slow a bit to avoid tailgating. That's part of courtesy, of sharing the road.
I would say on average, Prius do drive a bit slower than average traffic, maybe even a tad slower than average Toyotas, which is already slower than average traffic by a bit.
Campers that refused to get out of the way of an Audi Club event this last weekend included an old RAV 4, an old Chevy Blazer (brake checks on a straight-away from someone going almost 15 under, and a Toyota Matrix). All three blocked far more than 5 cars for a very long period of time and ignored several possilbe turnout spots, but the only one that NEVER got out of the way (we got to our mid-point destination despite them never getting out of the way) was the Blazer.
If the world is going to come to an end; I would like to give some of these driver's an early exit.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Usually what I find is that the car being passed is "rearview mirror" driving rather than completing their pass and driving like they are supposed to.
They will slow down their pass even MOREso, causing closer "tailgating" than would have otherwise been necessary had they just made a reasonably quick pass. A brake in the left lane is a big no-no while passing. Not only does it make the tailgating worse, it increases congestion and usually you'll have half a dozen cars quickly back up behind the timid passer.
If I let up off the gas that should be enough to let a passer pass...., if that results in "tailgating" that demonstrates an unsafe and discourteous pass attempt. The give and take shouldn't require brake lights on either side's part.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Usually, maintaining speed or maybe letting up a bit on the gas is all it takes to help someone complete a safe pass. Unless the speeders are crowding the left lane. But, that wouldn't be courteous driving, so you would never do that.
Tailgating is never courteous. If it's the fault of the slower driver, for not leaving enough of a gap when they pull out, then it's on them. But too often I see left lane flyers speed up when they see someone trying to pass in front of them, not maintain speed or let up on the gas. As in, "How dare you try to get ahead of me!!" That's the height of discourteous driving.
"But, sorry, driving at slower speeds is literally a drop in the bucket when it comes to global gasoline usage - which, of course, is taking the worldwide view that you advocate" You're right if only ONE person is saving 10-15% on gas by slowing down and driving more conservatively, but if EVERYONE did so, then all those drops would add up to something significant.
"So, like sports cars, like SUVs, the hybrids are just another way of making a statement." What statement does driving a hybrid make? A Prius holds 4 passengers comfortably and has 21CuFt of trunk space and costs about the same as an Accord, Camry, Malibu, Fusion, or other similarly sized cars...and has more cargo space (granted, the other cars listed can hold 3 across in the back seat better than a Prius). So I can get nearly double the average MPG (you have to look at Average, not Highway MPG to compare) of the other cars listed for the same price...so what statement are you talking about?
"Listening to the radio in a Prius in the slow lane- one of my textbook definitions of a literal Hell..." My definition of literal Hell is a 1/2 hour commute on a boring interstate driving a sports car with the radio off...too much frustration there for me :P
"Telling a passenger their cell phone shouldn't work while they are in a moving car is akin to telling all passengers they must zip their lips for the duration of the trip; talking should be outlawed then!" The difference is that passengers in the car are aware of the driving environment (especially the front seat passenger), while those at the end of the cellphone are not. They can adjust their conversation (i.e. pause, take breaks, etc....) where the person on the other side of the cell phone cannot. That's why cellphone conversation (hands free or not) is more dangerous than talking to a person actually in the car.
to HOST...it doesn't sound like many posters here are too concerned about saving their drops :P Of course that's the reason for the CAFE standards...to save drops. If people voluntarily did so, they'd naturally go to vehicles that saved them money at the pumps. But then like obesity, Americans generally don't do the smart thing naturally!
People like their big SUVs and trucks too much. Especially the ones with mis-aimed headlights (getting back to inconsiderate driving)... one of my pet peeves is getting blinded by a rig with too-high headlights, or some idiot who has them on high beam when not needed.
bobw: You're right if only ONE person is saving 10-15% on gas by slowing down and driving more conservatively, but if EVERYONE did so, then all those drops would add up to something significant.
Reread my original post. The projected savings in your link come from "driving more efficiently," and that encompasses much more than driving 65 mph on a limited access highway.
Even if everyone does drive 65 mph instead of 75 mph, it won't add up to significant savings - if we define "significant" as, "will stop a rise in gasoline or crude oil prices."
Remember, the original contention was that people driving faster in this country were also driving up gasoline prices. This, of course, ignored the consumption increases in countries such as China and India that are now driving oil prices. These increases will easily overwhelm any reduction generated by driving slower in this country. Oil has been a GLOBAL commodity for years.
At any rate, gasoline consumption has DECLINED in this country since 2007, even without a change in the speed limit (except for certain states raising them on various highways), as, again, I noted in my post.
The other side of it is that 7% to 8% DECREASED fuel use has proved to drive UP the fuel prices to RECORD levels !!!!!!!!!!
Just before the current administration took over, ULSD was $ 1.85 per gal. Right now, ( almost 4 years later) @ the same corner store ULSD is @ $4.41 per gal. This is a $2.56 increase or 138% increase/4 years= 34.6% per year increase.
Or maybe people who can't back in are just less skilled drivers?
I suspect those who can properly back in (I can back into almost any space in almost any car simply by using side mirrors) are better than average drivers. I'd wager a substantial amount of money on that. Low speed maneuvering (spatial awareness) is as much a display of skill as high speed skills.
driver flung the door open and hit my car. I got out and said, "Could you please be more careful?" He looks at me and mutters something like, "There's not much room." ... I reply, "I'm sorry you have such a big truck." He walks off.
Umm... Is this all you did? Was thee any chance to call police? Seems like it qualifies for a misdemeanor at least. To file a report and to charge his insurance company, or just to try to make his life worse in any possible way. Or at least to pierce or cut two of his tires.
Now that is what I call "Inconsiderate"! My wife's van was repeatedly hit by another vehicle/doors at the parking lot at her work. Not gravely but enough for the van to look like a Humvee after a small combat. It was hit by the same decrepit Jeep 5 or 6 times over about two weeks. That Jeep parked next to my wife's van while she was absent. The funniest and most incredible thing was that the fellow who hit her car didn't give a hoot. Naturally enough, he/she/it never manifested himself offering any insurance info or any help in fixing the damage, it is sort of expected now. But more than that, he wasn't bothered enough even to move to another parking spot if just to cover up traces of the incident. He just drove in, hit, locked his car, and left. And repeated next day. And next. Now that is what I call "Inconsiderate"! We are being quite incredulous and are still weighing our options.
It's annoying when people do this, but I doubt that the police would respond to a call over someone who hit your car when existing his or her vehicle. I don't know if the insurance company would even honor the claim.
We have assigned parking spaces at work, and my "parking neighbor" was a co-worker whose old Volvo had dents in the ROOF and front windshield pillars! (You can imagine what the rest of the car looked like).
I bought two removable "Door Defenders" via the internet that provide protection from door dings. They attach to the sides of the car via magnets.
Problem solved...then he left our employer, and the person who received his space has driven a series of brand-new Toyotas that she keeps in top-notch condition. I still use the Door Defenders just to be safe, and have used in them in other tight parking quarters.
They are available through the California Car Cover website. They come with a thin, metal cord that can be threaded between the door and body. The cord has a ball on the end to prevent it from being removed from the car. Of course, if a thief is intent on stealing the door defenders, he or she can simply cut the metal cord.
Comments
My problem would be that I'd drive more if I got twice as good of gas mileage.
for the sake of musguided "safety" concerns, I would add.
[passive safety - high greenhouse line - minuscle windows / pedestrian safety - high (and ugly!) bulbous hood / rollover passive safety - reinforced roof / poor visibility and maneuvrability - poor accident avoidance - more chance of an accident - but at least you are promised to survive if you are lucky. And your insurance picks up the tab ... oh, wait, where insurers take their money from???]
My take here: that is YOUR business. Why control a crates want to make it theirs, is an unacceptable encroachment on our personal and collective freedoms.
I don't think the manufacturing costs between a hybrid and a regular car are going to be much different over the lifetime of the car. I'd love to have a hybrid so long as the price is fair and the vehicle itself meets my hauling needs. There's a laser printer on my desk that costs more than inkjets, but it uses less ink, aka "fuel". I'll pay a bit more for a car too (in actual dollars or in the "green" component) in order to save later at the pumps.
Back to parking, around here I almost always can pull through a space so the car is pointing out into the aisle. That's green too; no need to stop and back up at any time in the parking lot. :shades:
Funny how being green is a nice way of saying frugal, lol.
The biggest thing most idjits around here forget to do when entering the left lane when there is heavy traffic on the road... is to speed up to the current rate of speed in the lane.
IE: keeping up with the flow of traffic
To teach the unenlightened and unwashed masses the "proper" way to drive, of course.
It's their noblesse oblige, the requirement of all upstanding environmentalists to civilize us heathens.
And remember, no more than one square of toilet paper when you wipe, too.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Let's forget about what China is doing. We can't directly affect how much oil China and other countries use. But the less oil we use in the USA, the easier it is for us to become energy-independent. As demand falls, prices will also fall. But even more important perhaps, there are other benefits to the USA to be energy independent.
Choose to do your little part by driving economically, or not. I don't find it a burden to do so, so I do it. And I save money every time I fill up my cars.
* Backing maneuver is less safe than straight-in.
* Backing maneuver takes longer, holds up other traffic in the lane longer.
* My own experience is that cars that have backed in do a poorer job of centering their vehicles. More chance for door dings, more inconsiderate of vehicles near you.
Usually I have good luck picking a parking spot on the edge of a lot or otherwise not close to other vehicles. I bet wrong the other day, as there were smallish 4-door sedans on either side of me when I pulled in, but as I was leaving the huge Ram truck pulled into one of the spaces.
You may be onto something. The Fusion hybrid might sell better without the current "normal" logo:
Escape too.
Parting of driving a hybrid is showing you drive a hybrid.
But we did blow off a road trip to Alaska this summer, partly because of the gas expense. Seems like we dropped $800 just on gas last August two years ago getting up to Newfoundland.
I think your assuming acceleration, passing, and then getting back over (as on a 2 lane highway (one lane each direction). However, I was thinking on a multi 4+ lane freeway, you never need to accelerate, and you can just keep left until after you pass. You can be cruising along at 85 MPH in the left most lane, and the guy doing 70 just need not camp in the left lane, move over, and the pass will easily be made in 5 seconds. If the camper gets over in time, there is no need to slow down or speed up, you just make the pass at the speed you were already going.
In a couple weeks I will be in Germany, and for several days I will have a car, which will suck down money fast. But it should be worth the experience.
You can pass me after I'm done & move over.
It's not so much the speeds that are a problem on the Interstates, it's often the speed differentials.
That's not to say there wasn't traffic enforcement! I was just stating that the left lane moved faster than the right (not choked by LLCs).
Hah! How often does that happen?! (not often enough)
In the grand scheme, better that a LEO was there than a deer bounding across the highway (or oncoming car).
The problem with speed differentials is that the campers are forcing faster moving traffic to pass on the right which creates more congestion and speed differential in an unexpected manner. You now have to account for faster traffic on the right and the left, when you should always be able to count on people from behind passing on the left.
Does the ban on open alcholic containers apply to buses; such as a party bus? I know people don't pay attention to that rule if they are on their own bus/motorhome. I bet the law has some inane exceptions for large vehicles/trucks.
I find it funny that some states do not want truck drivers to have radar detectors, as a guy in a big rig would be the hardest to prove criminal in that regard as they'd have a minute or two to remove the evidence before the cop gets within eye-distance to the cockpit.
To my knowledge, there are not many jobs where you can get business done or be productive by drinking alcohol (though let me know if there are any openings for taste testers) :P
Also, my cell phone costs a lot more than a beer. I can forgo the use of my beer without severe economic loss. Tell me I can't use my expensive phone in a car and now I'm enduring severe economic loss as I can't get as much use out of my expensive device.
Telling a passenger their cell phone shouldn't work while they are in a moving car is akin to telling all passengers they must zip their lips for the duration of the trip; talking should be outlawed then!
Not going to TX anytime soon?
I rarely go 85 these days, I top out at about 81/82 as I don't want to get in the eyesights of any revenue enforcers. The CHP is a sophisticated money-making machine!
Of course, that includes courtesy on the part of those flying along at far over the speed limit, would you not agree? On a busy freeway, it can be difficult for passers going at or a bit over the limit to find an opening to pass in the left lane. That's where courtesy on the part of those going well over the limit comes into play. Don't crowd people trying to pass slow cars. It might mean the fast cars have to slow a bit to avoid tailgating. That's part of courtesy, of sharing the road.
Campers that refused to get out of the way of an Audi Club event this last weekend included an old RAV 4, an old Chevy Blazer (brake checks on a straight-away from someone going almost 15 under, and a Toyota Matrix). All three blocked far more than 5 cars for a very long period of time and ignored several possilbe turnout spots, but the only one that NEVER got out of the way (we got to our mid-point destination despite them never getting out of the way) was the Blazer.
If the world is going to come to an end; I would like to give some of these driver's an early exit.
Usually what I find is that the car being passed is "rearview mirror" driving rather than completing their pass and driving like they are supposed to.
They will slow down their pass even MOREso, causing closer "tailgating" than would have otherwise been necessary had they just made a reasonably quick pass. A brake in the left lane is a big no-no while passing. Not only does it make the tailgating worse, it increases congestion and usually you'll have half a dozen cars quickly back up behind the timid passer.
If I let up off the gas that should be enough to let a passer pass...., if that results in "tailgating" that demonstrates an unsafe and discourteous pass attempt. The give and take shouldn't require brake lights on either side's part.
Tailgating is never courteous. If it's the fault of the slower driver, for not leaving enough of a gap when they pull out, then it's on them. But too often I see left lane flyers speed up when they see someone trying to pass in front of them, not maintain speed or let up on the gas. As in, "How dare you try to get ahead of me!!" That's the height of discourteous driving.
And yeah, at 80+, they will see you.
"But, sorry, driving at slower speeds is literally a drop in the bucket when it comes to global gasoline usage - which, of course, is taking the worldwide view that you advocate"
You're right if only ONE person is saving 10-15% on gas by slowing down and driving more conservatively, but if EVERYONE did so, then all those drops would add up to something significant.
"So, like sports cars, like SUVs, the hybrids are just another way of making a statement."
What statement does driving a hybrid make? A Prius holds 4 passengers comfortably and has 21CuFt of trunk space and costs about the same as an Accord, Camry, Malibu, Fusion, or other similarly sized cars...and has more cargo space (granted, the other cars listed can hold 3 across in the back seat better than a Prius). So I can get nearly double the average MPG (you have to look at Average, not Highway MPG to compare) of the other cars listed for the same price...so what statement are you talking about?
"Listening to the radio in a Prius in the slow lane- one of my textbook definitions of a literal Hell..."
My definition of literal Hell is a 1/2 hour commute on a boring interstate driving a sports car with the radio off...too much frustration there for me :P
"Telling a passenger their cell phone shouldn't work while they are in a moving car is akin to telling all passengers they must zip their lips for the duration of the trip; talking should be outlawed then!"
The difference is that passengers in the car are aware of the driving environment (especially the front seat passenger), while those at the end of the cellphone are not. They can adjust their conversation (i.e. pause, take breaks, etc....) where the person on the other side of the cell phone cannot. That's why cellphone conversation (hands free or not) is more dangerous than talking to a person actually in the car.
That's already happened if you think about it. Be curious to know how much oil CAFE is supposed to save over the years.
Reread my original post. The projected savings in your link come from "driving more efficiently," and that encompasses much more than driving 65 mph on a limited access highway.
Even if everyone does drive 65 mph instead of 75 mph, it won't add up to significant savings - if we define "significant" as, "will stop a rise in gasoline or crude oil prices."
Remember, the original contention was that people driving faster in this country were also driving up gasoline prices. This, of course, ignored the consumption increases in countries such as China and India that are now driving oil prices. These increases will easily overwhelm any reduction generated by driving slower in this country. Oil has been a GLOBAL commodity for years.
At any rate, gasoline consumption has DECLINED in this country since 2007, even without a change in the speed limit (except for certain states raising them on various highways), as, again, I noted in my post.
Just before the current administration took over, ULSD was $ 1.85 per gal. Right now, ( almost 4 years later) @ the same corner store ULSD is @ $4.41 per gal. This is a $2.56 increase or 138% increase/4 years= 34.6% per year increase.
Funny vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU
put your lil' hybrid in reverse and get out of my parking spot...
I suspect those who can properly back in (I can back into almost any space in almost any car simply by using side mirrors) are better than average drivers. I'd wager a substantial amount of money on that. Low speed maneuvering (spatial awareness) is as much a display of skill as high speed skills.
http://youtu.be/0oSzLS0j9fY
Prius driver, arrogant, and not exactly the picture of fitness.
Umm... Is this all you did? Was thee any chance to call police? Seems like it qualifies for a misdemeanor at least. To file a report and to charge his insurance company, or just to try to make his life worse in any possible way. Or at least to pierce or cut two of his tires.
Now that is what I call "Inconsiderate"! My wife's van was repeatedly hit by another vehicle/doors at the parking lot at her work. Not gravely but enough for the van to look like a Humvee after a small combat. It was hit by the same decrepit Jeep 5 or 6 times over about two weeks. That Jeep parked next to my wife's van while she was absent. The funniest and most incredible thing was that the fellow who hit her car didn't give a hoot. Naturally enough, he/she/it never manifested himself offering any insurance info or any help in fixing the damage, it is sort of expected now. But more than that, he wasn't bothered enough even to move to another parking spot if just to cover up traces of the incident. He just drove in, hit, locked his car, and left. And repeated next day. And next. Now that is what I call "Inconsiderate"! We are being quite incredulous and are still weighing our options.
We have assigned parking spaces at work, and my "parking neighbor" was a co-worker whose old Volvo had dents in the ROOF and front windshield pillars! (You can imagine what the rest of the car looked like).
I bought two removable "Door Defenders" via the internet that provide protection from door dings. They attach to the sides of the car via magnets.
Problem solved...then he left our employer, and the person who received his space has driven a series of brand-new Toyotas that she keeps in top-notch condition. I still use the Door Defenders just to be safe, and have used in them in other tight parking quarters.
I learn something every day. Don't remember ever hearing of those. Can someone pull them off the side of the car to steal them?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
(Yeah, I have small ones on both my van and wagon. Canoe bangs. :shades: ).
Memories. Not dents