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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    There is one situation where I willingly LLC, and that is if I see a cop ahead. I figure I'm doing all the speed demons a favor, and in the end they'll thank me even though initially they might wonder why this car is slowing down so much.

    I know that I have been saved from tickets due to heavy traffic before.

    Of course, if someone is being VERY obnoxious and tailgating overly aggressive, I'll just let them fly by and hope they get nailed by the cop.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Ruking nailed it. It's all relative. If you are speeding, then you can't claim that somehow LLC is more legit at one speed than another.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I admit to letting LLDs rush past me as they approach areas on I-75 where the cops more often are perched in the median with their laser guns.

    I've even sped up to make them feel more comfortable and then pulled over as if I'm going to maintain a faster speed. Just wish Ohio State Patrol were more aggressive about hiding in the medians and behind bridges like police in other states.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Using language like LL Dominator, while decriptive and of value is not a real contributor to understanding the dynamics of the driving reality/environment etc., plus why the left lane is and or has been called the passing lane.

    I am not trying to be critical here but if we want to lay out the case for LL dominator, why not have a passive aggressive dominator. You know the type: on a 65 mph highway (no traffic snarls) goes between precisely 44-60 mph. Well if you can do that in the far right lane you can do it in ANY LANE!!??

    The law really doesn't dictate a specific "speed" In fact the keep right except to pass or slower traffic keep right is part and parcel to this. One is supposed to figure out his place in the food chain and take the appropriate actions.

    Let me give you an annecdotal example. I was breaking in a set of new tires for my Corvette Z06. The break in procedures called for VERY easy early operations (no herky jerky type driving) and so called low speeds up to the 200 mile range. One upshot: how well you run during break in has a decided effect on the longevity of the tires.

    So I go to a smooth highway (for around here anyway) and in the right lane do app 45 mph. in a 65 mph zone. Average speeds on this freeway are usually between 80-85 mph. My first perception was: BRAVE NEW WORLD HERE!! But I have to admit that once you got used to it, you are pretty much in your own bubble. Even merging lane cars easily passed!! During this break in time 3 Highway Patrol cars, with not even so much as a nod passed me. (I am guessing at 80-85 judging by the traffic speeds of other cars also) Nary a nod for going 45 in a 65 mph zone.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I'm amazed that in this day and age, anyone gets worked up about vehicles traveling 80-85 mph on an interstate highway. May be time to get out more, or trade in that 1962 Rambler American for something a little more capable.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Unless it's a three lane. Then I drive in the middle lane so I don't have to allow for mergers.

    And if someone is going faster than me, I have no problem moving over if there is room.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am getting the sense that on a personal level folks don't really "GET IT"; that despite (per NHTSA)

    1. the population of vehicles being at record levels,
    2. more miles being driven
    3. more trips being taken
    4. highway speeds both real and posted being higher
    5. etc

    that the USA highway system is the safest that it has been since they have been recording these statistics!!!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I had a feeling you are the type who uses the middle lane and third lane when going fast. You don't just get in the 3rd lane and expect everyone else to be out of there when you get 100 feet behind them.

    I have followed people who stayed in the left lane from Dayton to Cincinnati and vice-versa. They never moved out even when the middle lane was empty.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    is that if you're the lead car, you're not passing the cars in the slower lane, and you don't have a left exit coming up anytime soon, then you simply do not belong in the left lane. It's just that simple.

    As for "Left Lane Dominator", that could actually apply to both camps. The Speed Racer wanna-be who expects traffic to part like Charleton Heston and the Red Sea, or the pig who just wants to sit there in the left lane, going at or below the flow of traffic, and make his point that it's his world and everybody else needs to adapt. Both of them want to dominate the left lane, just in their own way.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I'd like to be a Left Lane Dominator, but I don't have any black leather to wear when I drive...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Now behave!
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Ya really got to have a menacing vehicle. There was a movie that came out in the 90s, I belive, where there was this possesed car, some 70s beast. All dark, with tinted windows. Was terrorizing school kids, or something. I wish I remember more about it. Maybe this will ring a bell to someone.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    I could paste some whips and a chain to the front of my Accord, but I don't think the effect would be quite the same.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Some how, the S&M treatment doesn't seem menacing, more kooky than anything.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    http://www.sd455.com/moviecar.htm
    The later one was called "The Wraith".
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    That is definitely the car, tho' I don't know if I saw the movie being replayed on tv. Or if Sci Fi channel did their own original version. But that's it! Now that's something to dominate and menace the left lane with.

    The Wraith doesn't have the same fear me factor. That was a pretty sweet car, mostly terrorized a bunch of "inconsiderate driver" punks, after they got a guy killed(wasn't it Charlie Sheen?) Loved that movie, lots of car chase/race scenes. Pretty cool how that turbo Dodge gave that Corvette a good run.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    That's why I knew which two to look for. The Wraith had the big Chrysler logo on the front of it though. I thought that was kinda funny.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Didn't the Wraith have a turbo Volvo under the hood, or boot? Maybe someone gave me a bum scoop, years ago.

    Reminds me of a story I read about 15 years ago. Some guy was racing a black seden, all tinted and completely blacked out, and hummed like a power generator, or turbine. Guy had a Rolls Merlin in the back of a Nomad. Had the Devil beat by a desert mile, until he blew tire and wiped out before the finish line. Was a great story.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    of "The Car". Ain't it cute?
    image
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    You can find anything here. Nice model Andre.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    it's the only Ford product I've ever owned! ;-)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,341
    what's it look like from the side? All the pictures were always from the front.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    it kind of loses its identiy from the side, as it's just plain and featureless, with a front that's not that distinguishable from the rear...kinda like an Audi TT...

    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    image
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Thanks Andre, that it totally sweet! Seeing that thing barreling towards you would cure even the most ingnorant inconsiderate driver!
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    You and imadope must get a big kick out of irritating your fellow drivers and posters. I just hope that when your obnoxious behavior causes an accident, the only casualty is your self righteousness.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I've come to the conclusion that 99% of the drivers in the Dayton OH area shouldn't even have a driver's license. When it comes to driving, these people are idiots! Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY here speeds. And I'm not talking about going 5 mph over the speed limit. Everybody here drives 15-20 over. They tailgate. They don't use their turn signals. They make left turns from the right lane and vise versa, and they constantly cut other drivers off. I think if it were possible for someone to drive with their head stuck in the sphyncter muscle, all of these people are doing so.

    I'm a professional driver and I'm not saying that to try to make myself look like I'm better than anyone else. I'm saying this because of my profession, I spend a lot of time behind the wheel and I'm constantly exposed to these dangerous drivers. Because my job relies on me having a clean driving record, I choose to conform to the laws to avoid the risk of being ticketed or being involved in an accident. What I don't understand is why law enforcement doesn't do anything about all of this disorder on the roadways. I know the inital argument would be that they don't have to manpower to deal with all the traffic violators. But that argument would be quickly extinguished because if they were ticketing even 1/10 of all the violators, they'd generate enough revenue to erase the national defecite.

    Who can I approach with this matter to see about getting something done to curb all of the idiot driving?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I won't comment.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If a big rig driver can be considered a "professional driver" then according to the NHTSA, per capita, the professional drivers have more accidents/fatalities than the so called average driver or the 99% of which you speak. In fact, the other correlation is through the IIHS, or the insurance institute.

     

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/PPT/2003EARelease.pd- f
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    ...if EVERYBODY is doing 15-20 mph over the limit, I'd say it's time to raise the speed limit, especially if the 85th-percentile rule is followed.

    Then police can concentrate on the real dangers - tailgating, improper turns, left lane campers - instead of wasting time randomly stopping people who are exceeding the obviously too-low speed limits.

    The remedy chosen, of course, will depend on whether the real goal is to improve highway safety or merely raise revenue through traffic fines.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    To my mind and also subsequent data "speed" per se is not the culprit. Inappropriate speed most probably is.

    While the NHTSA, among others have been repeating the mantra "speed kills" the wholesale highway speed limit increase to 65 mph FROM 55 mph did not have a significant increase of fatalities. These agencies were predicting massive increases in fatality rates. In fact the rates have not only gone down, but we are the safest that we have EVER been! Again this is true with increased speed limits, more vehicles, more travel trips, more vehical miles. etc

    Also you will not hear any safety agencies beating the drum in favor of raising speed limits, but fully 85% of FATALITIES happen at speeds of 45 mph and UNDER!!!!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/15/young.drivers.ap/index.html

    "Fewer young drivers died in accidents in 2003 than the year before, but the total still was 429 more than a decade earlier, the government reported."

    In other words the roads are not safer for every segment of the population. Raising the speed limit is not the answer, better enforcement is.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Better enforcement for that segment of the population??? I would say yeah! Sounds good! What do we do? Give the cops the names and addresses of that population segment and have them look at this population with an eye to better enforcement? How about this, if you are in that segment instead of being able to go 65 mph, you have to wear a some identifying label (scarlett letter, eh, folks) indicating you are of that population segment and let them go no faster than 55 mph? Gee now I am on a roll, how about a sign mandatory for all those convicted of DUI so us innocents can identify past offenders!!?? After all those same statistics indicate that fully 40% of fatalities involve DUI!!
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    KDshapiro - uh, I'd be willing to be that there was a little bit more than a 429 person increase in that age group's population from a decade ago. Some how I bet the % would be lower than a decade ago.

    Kinda throwing those numbers up with no basis, but it looks scary! Ohhhhh. Wait, actually 429 people out of the U.S. increase isn't scary. Even disregarding the population and miles driven increase from a decade ago.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You also might want to check out NHTSA, the increased motorcycle carnage also. Seems the ones doing the increased dying are actually OLDER drivers. Here is another segment that might need more enforcement! OH the horror!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    It's ridiculous to think that there can be selective enforcement, and that is not what I was suggesting. However, the somewhat controversial numbers for lowered fatalities cannot be pinpointed to anyone factor. However, more people are wearing seatbelts, cars are safer. That means that when speeders get into a car crash, their chances of living are improved.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually selective enforcement is the most realistic. What is utterly ridiculous is an expectation of full and/or across the board enforcement!!!

    "Raising the speed limit is not the answer, better enforcement is."

    Also as you so ignore, when the national speed limit was raise from 55 mph TO 65 mph, the fatality rate has actually GONE in the precise opposite direction of the increase carnage that was predicted!! So does that really mean raising the speed limit was better enforcement? :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    As the speed limit was raised, cars have gotten safer. Which brings me back to my point that getting into a car crash at a higher speed will improve your chance of living after it.

    Unfortuately that study may hold water on an empty mid-west road, but in New Jersey it hasn't been the case. Higher speed limits have resulted in some very high profile tragic loss of lives as people go even faster.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    do people actually drive though, since the speed limits have been raised? If I drive a certain road at a speed I feel comfortable with (for instance, say 80 in a 55 zone, but it's on a long, smooth stretch of highway with visibility for miles), I'm not suddenly going to go 90, simply because they raised the speed limit to 65!

    I think the public as a whole might drive a little faster, since the speed limits have been raised, but as a whole, I'm sure that when the limit is set to a more realistic level, more people drive closer to it than they did before! And sure, you're going to have some nut cases who want to go 100 mph through a blind curve in a school zone, but they're gonna drive stupidly no matter what the speed limit is!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    "As the speed limit was raised, cars have gotten safer. Which brings me back to my point that getting into a car crash at a higher speed will improve your chance of living after it."

    HUH?

    The RATE of fatalites may be going down simply because of increased numbers of drivers on the roads and better education. That, and the idea that locations on the roads where accidents are more likely due to road conditions or design are pretty much a finitie, ungrowing number. (The "bad" intersection in your town produces 3 fatalities per year even though the number of cars on the road keeps increasing.)
    But that's an aside... back to the speed issue.

    I'm just going to think out loud to illustrate why my gut is telling me that the concept of being more likely to survive a crash BECAUSE you're going faster is wrong. Thinking of some of the ways people die in fatal crashes...

    1) Hitting that bridge abutment; running off the road into a ditch; wrapping yourself around a tree or utility pole; running into stopped traffic ahead of you - and the reason it would be BETTER to do so at 75 instead of 55 is what exactly???

    2) Head ons - I don't think the idea from the football field of "hit the other guy harder than he hits you and you'll win" works when it comes to cars.

    3) Loss of control leading to a rollover - Am I missing something or is rolling farther or faster REALLY better for you?

    Do you see what my gut is trying to tell me? Higher speed means more energy to dissipate. And we're NOT comparing older less safe cars with newer safer cars. The point trying to be made was getting into a car crash at a higher speed will improve your chance of living after it.

    With all due respect...nope.

    PF Flyer
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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I'm not sure I understand, take any two vehicles in the same class 20 years apart 2004 vs 1984. Drive 'em into an abutment at 75, which driver do you think has a better chance of walking away after the results are normalized?

    Dramatic advances in structure have been made in 10 years. Cars have gotten, safer, people are becoming more educated, DWI/DUI fatalities are down, people are wearing there seatbelts more.

    None of these has anything to do with being able to justify the supposed decrease in fatalities solely on the increase in tye speed limit.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Just to clear things up, I'm not a big rig driver per se. I do on occasion drive semis, but my job consists of driving everything from cars to pickups to vans to busses and even tow trucks. I mearly pointed out the fact that I'm a professional driver to make the point that I'm exposed to the crazies on a daily basis for many hours a day.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Your statement isn't comparing same class vehicles of 20 years ago with vehicles of today. That's not the point you made. I agree that cars are safer now, but what you said was...

    getting into a car crash at a higher speed will improve your chance of living after it.

    That sentence starts with a condition, getting into a crash at a higher speed, that you then go on to say will IMPROVE your chances of survival. That seems absurd.

    If you meant to say that you can be involved in a higher speed crash in a 2004 vs a 1981 model of the same car and come out better, MAYBE... Even if I'm in a car that's safer now than it was then, the safety factor of the car is a constant. It doesn't increase with speed. I'd wager that the statistics would should that as well. Injuries HAVE to become more frequent and more severe as vehicle speed increase.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    Actually if you go really fast, time dilation will increase the time you take to crash. You'll live a little longer before the crash, and when you hit the target, it'll happen over slightly more time, which helps too =]
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    is that chances are a modern car will protect you at higher speeds than an older one would. It was just worded a bit awkwardly, but that's how I took it.

    And, as long as you're comparing vehicles of a similar weight, I'd be inclined to agree. However, really heavy vehicles actually tend to fare poorly when they hit objects that simply aren't going to move, because all that weight just amplifies the forces put on the front of the vehicle. If it's something where you sit really close to the front, like a van, SUV, or pickup, you're going to be screwed. In something like a full-sized car with a long hood, where the bulk of the car's mass is in front of you, you'll fare a bit better. Kinda like being in the last car of a train, versus the first car, in a head on collision!

    One thing that should be considered, though, is that those crash tests are done at relatively low speeds, like 35-40 mph. And in the majority of cases, the passenger cabin was compromised. In some of the poorer performing cars, you still had an excellent chance of being severely hurt in an impact. And in many cases, even though the airbag deploys, the crash test dummy still ends up getting smacked by the steering column as it and the entire dashboard gets thrust up into it face, actually pushing through the airbag. So the airbag softened the blow somewhat, but it would have been better still if the steering column and dash had stayed in place. As for higher speeds, well consider this: if those passenger cabins were starting to breach at 35-40 mph, just imagine what would happen at higher speeds.

    And while this isn't something that I would advise trying, I do believe that there might be a few situations where you might be better off hitting something at a higher speed than a lower speed. For instance, I know I've brought this up before, but some things, like telephone poles, smaller trees, etc, WILL snap if you hit them hard enough. So what's better, hitting one at 40 mph and stopping dead, or hitting one at 45, snapping it like a twig, and only decelerating maybe 10-15 mph? Of course, you usually can't predict when the best time to speed up is, and if you have the time to speed up, you have the time to slow down! Plus, chances are that after you hit that telephone pole and snap it, you'll be out of control afterwards, and may hit other things, roll the car, etc...
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    When the national speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65, there was a decrease in fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles driven WITHIN THE NEXT YEAR. This cannot be explained away by safer vehicles, as there is not enough turnover in the vehicle fleet within a year to make that much difference.

    Also, states were given the option of increasing the speed limit to 65 mph in 1987, which meant that it happened before the last decade of improvements in car structure.

    The same result happened when the 65 mph speed limit was abolished in late 1995.

    Again, there was a drop in the fatality rate per 100 million vehicle miles driven in 1996, which cannot be explained away by safer vehicles, or safety improvements that have occurred in vehicle design over the last decade.

    As for New Jersey - I looked up the figures for the number of fatal crashes that are related to speed, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). (New Jersey went to a 65 mph speed limit in late 1997.)

    The figures are from 2000-2003.

    In 2000, 7 percent of fatal crashes in New Jersey were speed related. This increased to 9 percent in 2001, before dropping to 8 percent in 2002. For 2003, it was down to 6 percent.

    (NHTSA has a rather loose definition of what constitutes a speed-related accident. Falling under the definition of a speed-related fatality, as per NHTSA, are: improper lane changes; following too closely; unsafe passing; inattention; reckless driving; high-speed chase; erratic speeds; driving too fast for conditions [50 mph in a snow storm is too fast for conditions, even if the speed limit is 65 mph]; and driving LESS than the posted minimum speed limit.)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    320D??? Older (20 yr?), neater, clean style Mercedes in pale yellow going 40 in middle lane of I75 between Dayton and Cincinnati.

    There was a middle-aged couple inside. They seemed oblivious to the flashing lights behind them as cars ran up on them. The right lane was CLEAR. I was even using the right lane at 65 mph.

    I thought of fintail and his Mercedes; would he be going 40 in the middle lane? I don't think so.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    According to the FARS database the number of traffic fatalities has been increasing since 1994. The exception is 2003, where there was a drop. Notice according to the FARS database the absolute number of fatalities went up in 1996 not down. The relative percentage went down. (My analogy here is a murder in New York City is worth less than a murder in Puxatawny, Pa). Here are the figures - 2003 was a good year, the absolute fatalities went down.

    Year-Fatalities
    2003-38,252
    2002-38,491
    2001-37,862
    2000-37,526
    1999-37,140
    1998-37,107
    1997-37,324
    1996-37,494
    1995-37,241
    1994-36,254

    http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/main.cfm
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    traffic fatalities are going up. However, how many more cars and trucks are on the road now, compared o 1994? And how many more miles total does the nation drive, compared to 1994?

    Just going by raw numbers, today's stats wouldn't look much better compared to the 50's, when, IIRC, on average 40-50,000 people yearly died in car crashes. And back in the 50's, one of the biggest saftety features was how far back from the front of the car the steering box was located! The further back it was, the harder a hit it took for the steering wheel to spear you.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    about the pattern for increases. When the speed limit had been 55, people were good at speeding carefully. I could use the right lanes and avoid median speed traps and moving radar by using shields.

    When the speed limit was raised back to 65 in certain areas, people were driving carefully and stayed closer to 65. As years went on they became more careless and speeded up. So the initial years the accident rate did not increase after the rise to 65.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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