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I also understand why statistics show most fatalities occur 45 and under. I believe it is in the same vein as most accidents occur within 10 miles of home. That is to say, I spend 95% of my driving driving 50 and under, seems logical to me that statistically I have more of a probability of getting into an accident in the 95% vs 5% bracket. "...
I see you fail to see the statistical significance of what you say you see as logical!!??
I would also chuckle if your real assumption is somehow the fatality rate should be ZERO.
If you would even look at the statistics for New Jersey...
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/STSI/State_Info.cfm?Year=2003&State=NJ&Accessible=0
Then according to the statistics NJ has one of the better RATES.
No, it's called common sense. If most of my driving is done under 50, it seems logical I would have a higher probability of getting into an accident of any type under 50.
The studies for NJ were conclusive, after the speed limit was raised fatalities went up as well. These studies were conducted by NJ and not by the NHSTA. So we can debate this round and round and round and until someone says "uncle".
While you might think it common sense, common sense is not so common. As I have said before as a response to another poster, if speed was indeed the dominant, significantor greatest % factor in the fatality rate, then by virtue of the fact that Europe in some areas have unlimited speed limits (and generally higher limits when they do have limits) should be off the charts compared to the USA figures!!! It is NOT!!!!
Speeds of 155 mph + co exist with trucks ambling rambling 55-65 mph.
Common sense should tell you I am not saying there is NO potential for accidents. Or that I am even saying that speed plays NO factor in accidents, etc, etc.
For example, the jerk weaving in and out of traffic wouldn't be doing this if everyone kept right except to pass and pulled over to allow the faster driver to pass in the left lane.
Had this happen last evening. The headlights are higher so they directly blast into the (self-dimming) mirror. And the tailgating isn't safe.
Why do they believe they can't hit you if you have a flat, transmission lockup, decide to turn on a street, business, etc.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Not trying to ban talking about LLC's or speeders, but when we get on the order of 50 posts overnight, it's generally an indication that the heat has been turned up!
Carry on!
One visual trick I used to use, to make the decision of whether I thought a car was tailgating me was whether I could still see its headlights in my rearview mirror. However, with the taller rear decks on many of today's cars, that's not really a good test anymore. In most of my older cars, which had low, sloping trunks, a car would have to be practically on my bumper before the headlights disappeared from view. My Intrepid's rump can almost hide a complete small car, though, from like 50 feet away!
As a passenger, it makes me extremely nervous to ride with a left lane camper. He'll always get over when I ask him to, but it really makes me question how he drives when he's alone in the car!
I have a feeling that a lot of these left-lane campers don't do it because they have a grudge, are anal-retentive, want to play cop, etc. I think a lot of them just do it simply because they get on the highway and zone out, and don't think! I guess the end result is the same, that they're an annoyance, but I have a little more compassion for someone who does something by accident versus someone who does it intentionally!
Accidents are few are far between on a race track as well, but when there is an accident, what are the odds, the driver and several innocent people also get killed.
You seem to be putting forth the argument, if an exceptionally engineered, patrolled and watched road can have unlimited speed, then it should be able to work on the Garden State Parkway at the Raritan or Union tolls or even any road.
It might work as long as people don't talk on the cell phone, read the paper, do their makeup, watch TV, or play with their navigation system. Yes, we might be able to go 100+ safely as long as we drive.
But that will never happen in this country at this point in time because we're more worried about who's on the phone than driving safely.
You are probably right, speed alone does not kill. But it sure decreases the amount of room one has for error and can live to tell the tale.
So you want everyone to drive at 1 mph and be safe.
Or perhaps you want to pick an arbitrary number rather than follow your logic to 1 mph.
A Ford expedition started tailgating me so that I could not even see its lights(I was in my 4runner). I could not move out (left lane was packed and had a solid double white line on my side). Moreover, I did not think I had to move out. Anyway, I dropped to about 65, at which point the expedition illegally moved over to the lane on my right cutting off a vehicle and proceeded on its way.
Question is, was that inconsiderate of me? If so, what would you have done?
Those maniacs at 2 mph are just living on borrowed time. They probably skipped the carrots and went right for the potatoes, too.
Madmen.
IMO, no one has the right to tailgate you if you are going at the speed limit. I would have done exactly what you did. If they want to do something stupid (as long as it doesn't harm me), fine with me.
But that's one reason I dislike the HOV...no maneuvering room...if it was not HOV, I would have moved to the right and said "happy trails, better you than me" and let them go.
But this is not what my post is about, however, if everybody obeyed the speed limit and drove according to conditions and traffic, there would not be any issue. Now would there, my friend.
Good question. I was there, because for one, I had a few passengers and for another, I wanted to avoid the bumper to bumper traffic(even though fast moving) that was there in both the non hov lanes.
Those maniacs at 2 mph are just living on borrowed time. They probably skipped the carrots and went right for the potatoes, too.
Madmen."...
Now this one, I am cracking up at the humor.
Me, I like to camp in the middle lane, when there are 3 in my direction.
I find it amuzing, when camping in the right lane, the folks that tailgate me at the speedlimit, while waiting for the LL to clear.
Recently I spoke with a truck driver of a nationwide carrier. He was currently involved in litigation resulting from an accident. He and the company were being attacked by money hungry "I'm not responsible for my actions" people. Apparantly there was an accident or some situation, and the rig couldn't stop in time.
And the rig ran right into what ever was in the way. The carrier was being sued, the argument being the trucker was speeding, and that's why he couldn't stop. Now here's where it gets really interesting. This carrier has speed limiters on all their trucks, set at 63mph. And they recalibrate quarterly. The opponents ended up amending their suit, dropping their case against the carrier and driver.
So, just thought this was interesting in the light of the issue of slow trucks passing marginally slower trucks.
And now back to the regularly scheduled ramblings.
MAAW
:^)
Sound like something you have heard before I bet.
And there's the rub. Very few of the posters on these forums, I believe, are guilty of the extreme, anti-social driving behaviors we are arguing about, regardless of which side of the debate you stand on.
But the problem is that, to 95% of the population (here in the states), driving is an after-thought. It's simply a way to get from A to B. Driving etiquette? Huh? What's that?
Most people simply do not CARE or THINK about driving. Those people have probably never heard of edmunds.com. They are the reason so many Tauruses and Camries are sold each year. They are the ones who see no problem whatsoever with dividing their attention between driving, talking on the phone, and eating lunch.
My dad is, by my standards, a pretty awful driver. He responds slowly, he's not very considerate, and he's generally inattentive.
However... he has actually improved his driving a bit, as old as he is (around 60). Due to constant complaining by mom and us (the kids), that old dog has picked up a few new tricks. For example, he actually WILL get out of the way if he notices someone waiting behind him. Not always, of course, but it's quite an improvement from 100s of freeway miles of LLC without blinking an eye.
My reasoning for it was that it would make it easier for people merging onto the highway if I wasn't over there, and I was going faster than the speed limit anyway, at what I thought was a comfortable, acceptable speed. Well, after a few people passed me on the right, Granddad asked me if I knew about passing left and keeping right. I was like "huh?!" It did makes sense though, after he explained it to me!
I had to walk to school for 10.5 of 13 years, starting from Kindegarten. And you learn that the faster you walk, the warmer you are, in the winter. The last school I went to, 110 miles round trip. No walking there, thank you very much. That was in the High Desert region of SoCal.
But how does one go about changing this apathy in America? It seems ingrained in our society. It also seems we take this attitude to more than just driving.
Of course there are variations from one truck to the next, so you often have two trucks with 1 MPH variances in top speed. To a trucker, time is money, so that 1 MPH is sufficient reason to block the left lane for many miles, in order to pass another truck with a more restrictive governor.
james
So, I slow down a bit. My favorite though is when I see someone speeding and weaving in and out of traffic, then they get to the stop sign or stop light, and end up waiting right next to all of the people they just HAD to pass. Sometimes this can happen at two or three intersections in a row. Speed past people, get to light, the people you passed pull up next to you. Speed to the next light, same thing. Again and again. Do they really think they are going to get where they are going THAT MUCH sooner?
If you are in the middle, then you have to contend with cars on both sides!
My old boss used to drive exclusively iin the left lane, for basically these reasons. Of course, he also drove like a bat out of hell (had a Mustang GT), again on purpose, so he also wouldn't have to worry about anyone behind him! He basically reduced his scope to directly in front of him.
In a perverse way, it made sense.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's just, um......inconsiderate!
What isn't arbitrary is keep right except to pass. As for the poor driving in America, all we need do is what is done in Germany. The written test shows parts of the car and the driver must know what they are. In other words they are required to understand, in a basic way, how an engine and transmission work. They are also required to take their test with a manual transmission and show they have real driving skill. The test is far more difficult than in the US, as it should be. Our corrupt politicians don't want to make the test more difficult or they might loose votes from the uneducated. They would rather go on with slogans such as "speed kills", than do something to actually save lives, so the uneducated pick up the same chant and vote for them.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sure, but I think that's the situation we're talking about! Besides, if one has an MO of "I'm stayin here no matter what", then it's just a matter of time (and not much) until you block someone.
BTW, I think a LOT of folks do this and is probably a major reason for passing on the right.
What you seem to not understand is that hardly anyone takes the "safest" method in all cases. It's always a compromise. So, your conclusion that "recognizing that something is less safe precludes it as a course of action" is without merit.
They would rather go on with slogans such as "speed kills", than do something to actually save lives...
There are plenty of bad politicians, but this is a red herring.
Speeding does increase risk, this is reality. And vehicle safety standards and improved road maintenance have resulted in a far safer environment (as the statistics prove) in recent years. All this despite some elements that have made things worse, like the proliferation of SUVs.
Ooops. I meant elephants. Not SUVs. The proliferation of elephants.
As for the moving from lane to lane in traffic. Here in our community we have the problem of slow drivers. they will give your reasoning that you are just going to get a red light so why drive 45 between the lights. The reason here to drive 45 is that the lights are set on a timer. If you drive 45 and reach that speed quickly you can stream for about six miles thru lights and get all of them green. When slow driver enter the picture you are going to get stuck at every red light. There are even signs posted by the city. Traffic signals timed to X miles per hour. Still dawdlers cause one to make your trip across town a long stop and go affair.
Most people don't know. Sure the handbook mentions something about "slower traffic keep right" but since the handbook says never go exceed the speed limit, and the instructor doesn't feel like he can openly say "yeah everyone goes 5-10 over", we all assumed that "slower traffic keep right" referred to trucks going way under the limit. You have to hang out a lot in forums like this to start believing that everyone was taught about leaving the left lane open.
I was fine up to here and I'll give you a fer'instance. I'm using the passing lane to pass a row of cars 70 in 60 zone. WRX comes up on my tail at 80 wanting me to move over, but I haven't finished my passing. An EVO comes up on the WRX at 90 wanting the WRX to move over.
Bottom line, I finish my passing, I'm under no obligation to move over for the person who decides they want to go the fastest. Note I said passing not left, lane camping. I happily move over when I finished my passing maneuver.
On another topic, bringing up the Autobahn is a waste of time, in this country it's so bad, people can barely finish their lunch while driving what with all of the yakking on the cell phone. Until this changes and our road system is built like the Autobahn and the American driver is willing to put away lunch, the cell phone, the booze, and drive the car speed limits and accident rates will stay where they are.
Yes, at certain speeds in a wreck you are dead. Also at certain speeds you increase the likelihood of losing control in an unforeseen situation. The faster you are going, the less reaction time you are allowed. It is simple fact. You go at high speeds, weaving through traffic, and all the skill in the world wont save you if the math involving velocity and mass are against you. Still, you can increase your chances by cutting back on speed.
This is not complex stuff. Sure, you may have skill, but that doesn't mean you can change the laws of physics. Skilled confident people die on our freeways every day in accidents that can be avoided where speed played a roll.
It amazes me that people get so mad when they get a ticket for speeding. If you were shoplifting would you still think the cop was the bad guy? Why is it you are willing to break this law and not others?
That being said, you are still ignoring and breaking the law regardless.