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Comments
"I'm wondering how many of you Freestyle owners out there bought the Freestyle as their first Ford vehicle. It seems like most Freestyle owners already own Ford cars, but I'm wondering if the Freestyle was anyone's first Ford product."
Not only my first Ford, but my first American vehicle. I never would have considered a Ford until I got a Freestyle by accident as a rental car on a business trip. I was amazed at the utility, the nice drive, and the very neat interior. I was also very much drawn to the CVT transmission and the good gas mileage for a vehicle of its size. It wasn't half bad looking either.
My family needed to seat more than 5, but hated minivans. This was the perfect solution. I must also admit that finding out it was based on a Volvo platform sealed the deal. Within two weeks of having one as a rental car we had our own in the driveway. No regrets.
My only concern is how well the CVT transmission will hold up over the long haul as we tend to put a lot of miles on our vehicles and keep them a long time. I maintain my vehicles very well and expect 200,000 miles out of them. I sure hope Ford doesn't drop the CVT and continues to refine the technology.
- Chad
The CVT is a ZF Friedrichshafen AG (German) design, which is also used in Audi's. The technology itself is not new. Still, I understand the apprehension. Traditional automatics are probably less reliable, actually. An AAMCO fellow once told me they just don't make traditional "shifty" automatics very durable really, as they are too complex.
200K is possible, but you will most likely have to put some extra money into the FS after 100K. Based on my experience, 120-130K is about max. Example is my brother-in-law; he has 200K on his early 1990's Mustang, but he had to invest an additional 3.5K on transmission and other problems. Still, it beats new car payments...
BTW, I have owned Ford's in the past (13 years on my first one - a Fairmont), but for the past 15 years I've been with Honda or Toyota. I like the FS size and comfort. Plus it seems well put together.
- Chad
Picture of 2008 Freestyle
Note it will have the new 3.5L 250-hp engine, and that means it will probably NOT have the CVT, since there is a torque limit on the CVT currently. Probably, the 6-speed automatic found on the Ford500/Montego will be offered.
Steve, Host
It is interesting, though, that the CVT version of the Ford500 gets worse gas mileage than the 6-speed automatic version. That surprised me.
I'm not so sure the 2008 will shed the CVT. Keep in mind that the Feds are changing the test for EPA-estimated gas mileage. The current test has a high bias. My guess is that the CVT will remain and the EPA mileage test changes played a big part in Ford's decision to keep the Freestyle.
see new test proposal at:
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/
The Ford500 2-wheel-drive version comes with either the CVT or the 6-speed automatic. The CVT 2WD gets 20/27, and the 6speed gets 21/29, so it somehow manages to beat the CVT in efficiency! I was surprised too. Comparing an AWD to a 2WD would not be fair, but is not the case here.
"Anytime you're propeling more than one wheel, gas mileage suffers (increased weight, drag, etc.)."
That is true, since some of the power is soaked up inside the rear drivetrain. Acceleration, handling, braking, reliability, cost, and noise is also all worse with AWD!
Reply: I've heard people say that, but I've not found that to be the case at all. My Freestyle gets 25 mpg consistently (averaged over 5 tankfuls) with about 30% city driving, the rest highway. And I punch the throttle hard several times.
The new test will be more real-world based with driving at several different speeds.
Pretty much the whole point of having both in the lineup. I would not have bought a Ford explorer/expedition(ever) or Edge(no 3rd row) if those were the only choices at Ford. While we may not use the 3rd seat that often, to have it available was the number 1 reason for our purchase. With one baby, the associated stuff and grandparents in proximity the FS was the only option for us. We didn't want to overpay for toyota/honda options and pacifica was cramped in the headroom area for me with mini vans not an option for us. Add the safety, mpg, and value of the FS and it makes the most sense to buy than people credit it for. Ford is keeping it past 07 for a reason, its a great vehicle and with some refinement of the interior could be even better. Leave the drivetrain alone.
"If this happens, expect the Freestyle sales to fizzle out"
FS and edge are different demographics and I think each can succeed on its own merits. The Edge is going after the murano/infiniti fx/lexus rx crowd is size/performance the FS is going after minivans, pacifica, highlander, rav sales. I'll take a FS every time as long as quality and affordability continue to be priorities in its evolution.
The 3.5L will actually get equal, if not better fuel mileage than the current 3.0L even if it makes upwards of 250-260HP+. About 1MPG improvement overall...the 6 speed automatic will also contribute to it as well to allow for it.
Some versions of the Aisin supplied automatic (mostly the 5 speed versions) have not been very reliable. Current Camry, Volvo S60, Mazda6 owners might testify to that. Luckily the 6 speed Aisin units used in the FS/500/MTG, updated Mazda6, Jetta, have not experienced any issues...so far...
The AWD system isn't as heavy, or fuel thirsty as many others. This is a specifically designed for cars system, which only kicks on when slip is detected elsewhere in the system. The components weigh around 90-140lbs. overall, and only decrease fuel mileage about 1MPG. This isn't a permanently locked, 4x4, 400LBS+ system you would find in a truck/SUV.
10% to the rear would make more sense to me, though.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2804/article.html
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2204.shtml
However, the AWD Haldex is computer controlled, and it is possible Ford is using it for 100% front torque on dry pavement. I can't find a reference for what Ford is doing with the Volvo unit.
I must have been reading about the popular Subaru AWD system which does do 10% torque to the rear. http://www.autoworld.com/news/Subaru/Subaru_All-Wheel.htm
I still think that routing SOME torque (5 to 10%) at all times to the rear makes more sense than 100% to the front.
Not exactly sure I can say WHY, though. LOL. It just does!
My first impression during the test drive was not to buy the Freestyle. It seemed average and loose. My wife liked it so we bought it.
During a service visit I stepped back into my Honda Accord. It seemed built on Mars or somewhere out of this world, just perfect and exact.
Now I am used to the FS. I think part of the impression was due to the move from a sedan to a taller vehicle not necessary to the make. I've been in a Fusion and I got the same impression as I did in the Accord.
I rented today (another service visit) a Kia Rio from Enterprise. Beside the fact that the car is poorly maintained I suddenly appreciated my FS which I miss so much after 10 minutes in Kia.
At one point I hated my FS, but I realized that I was disappointed with the service departments in Ford dealerships, not actually by Ford.
It is the number 1 reason we have one followed closely behind with the 2nd row bench option.
If that's the case, then I like it just the way it is!
Thanks for the info.
Does the Freestyle give any indication of when it's applying power to the rear wheels? I seem to recall that the Taurus would indicate when the Traction Control was active.
Ford has done an outstanding job, especially in light of the simplicity of this new engine compared to many competing engines(less to go wrong), and the fact that it only requires regular gasoline.
From what I have been reading about the design of the new 6-speed automatic, it will be equally outstanding.
With the new engine and transmission, the 2008 Freestyle should be as fast as the 2006 Explorer V8, but provide much better fuel economy.
Ford's literature sorta implies that it may "kick in" fairly often during cornering, etc. Do you know if this is actually the case?
"We consider Ford's Explorer one of the most practical SUVs on the market today, and consumer enthusiasm and incentives have made it the best-selling utility vehicle on the market through thick and thin."
Ha?
Then again, I've never seen any appreciable differences in the interiors of the Camry vs. Taurus, either.
I agree that the darker interiors - like the blue-gray don't show as much windshield glare as the tan. The interior plastics could feel softer, but for what they are, no discoloring or cracking - even in Minnesota winters.
I have found these removable 3M Command hooks good for hanging trash bags and stuff - i.e. @side of main console. You will like the nooks and crannies. Since you don't have little ones to worry about every day, the second row console is useful for those who need something to do with their elbows on a long trip or as an extra storage bin. It can also separate the grandkids a bit more.
Good luck with your decision. If and when you do buy a Freestyle, come back to this Forum and we will tell you where the third powerpoint is hiding. :shades:
This is the only negative comment I have after driving my 2006 Freestyle SE FWD in the four months I've owned it.
In the driver seat (the 8 way) the rear view mirror is just at the right height. Any lower would get into my field of view. Some people would complain that it is too high up, next to the ceiling. I agree, but any lower would not work either. Need a taller windshield, I guess. "Conversation mirror" is useless. I miss the moon roof. The AC does a bang noise when it starts that it did not do when the car was new.
Oh, there is not much room between the door and the seat, so it's not very comfortable to adjust the electric seat.
Get the limited! Moon roof, dark interior and memory seats! no adjustment!
My two kids prefer to ride in the 3rd seat!
I use polarized sunglasses, and cannot even see the glare of the windshield that is a common complaint.
I suggest the Limited: the black on white guages are much easier to read than the other white on black ones in the SE and SEL. Better stereo as well.
We have the SE with the aux A/C heat in the back which is a must...especially the ceiling A/C vents. We've had our share of spills, but they clean up easily. We have gray cloth interior. I can tell the difference between a Camry and Taurus interior (Camry much better in my opinion), but I paid $24K for my Freestyle and for that money, I'm satisfied with the quality of the interior.
I bought the Freestyle because of the interior space. There is a lot of room in the 2nd row and more in the 3rd row unless you get a full sized minivan. Plus good luggage space behind the 3rd row. I looked at the Pilot & Highlander, but they didn't have the space, and cost a lot more. It's not a small vehicle, but it handles and is easier to park and manauver than a full sized minivan or huge SUV. Plus we like the ride height. The CVT transmission is great too on road trips.
Some small issues. I wish the 2nd row bench slid fore & aft to give more space to the 3rd row if necessary. Glove box is pretty small. A little hard to read the dash in the bright sun when wearing sunglasses. Same with the clock on the dash. Hard to read in the bright sun. But otherwise we're happy
now has 23,000 miles on it with a tan interior--front seats remain great for long trips
3rd row less comfortable, 2nd row in between
interior has held up well a couple of slight stains and the car is still as quiet as the first day I had it--no squeaks or rattles
Has never been in the shop except for oil changes (no recalls as far as i can tell --it was made in 9/04)
Good luck you will love it
One issue is that I can't get touch up paint for the bumper which is darker than the body--I scratched it up by backing tinto our garbage can--anyone with any advice please let me know
Now while making a longer turns, the system is neutral.
Any comment about the relative performance of each system for such recoveries?
ONE time (driving the Freestyle back from where I purchased it, some 6 hours away), I felt what may have been the AWD kicking in. I was on the freeway, doing about 75mph (probably in a 65 zone
Right as I let off the gas a bit, I thought I could feel the rear tire(s) grab. Not sure if it was the AWD kicking in, or just a result of me letting off the gas.
Other than that, I can't say I've ever NOTICED the AWD.
As to your feelings of the car being able to handle when you eased off the pedal, might attribute it to simple inertia on a turn. When you push THOSE limits, you can easily tell the difference between a RWD and FWD vehicle. On a tight long turn, FWD tend to nosedive and reducing power allows the vehicle to regain some composure. In the same circumstances, a RWD will "dig" more into the turn as you accelerate since it's driving you OUT of the turn.
Would AWD be different/similar in the same situation? Yes. Depending upon the AWD system and how it works (we'll take a FS/500 for example), you will first notice the nose plowing, you might mistakingly apply the accelerator giving you a sense of pushing the limits and "IF" the AWD system detects you might be, then routing power to the rear wheels to regain composure (although you will still feel a bit nose heavy), YET be able to drive out of the curve with a bit more confidence.
From personal experience when testing a 500, I was about to be sandwiched between 2 merging trucks on a rain soaked highway doing 60-70MPH. My only alternative was to switch to a lane which within a second found out it was a circular off-ramp. So, I slam the brakes to slow down, causing the momentum of the vehicle to fall forward putting all it's weight in the front wheels (knowing how BAD this is), ABS shuttering which really just let me slow down to 50MPH going into a turn...let go off the brakes about 70% as I start to turn into the right curve to equalize the vehicles weight which now shifted to the rear left where I know (from experience) the AWD kicked in because now the vehicle felt stable on both sides. The nose plowing was reduces quite a bit, yet no mistaken that the mass is moving towards the guard rail yet continue to apply a bit more brake pressure. When the momentum fell into the front right side, that let me know that the AWD was routing maximum power to the rear left and by the time I reached the bottom I was probably doing 30mph.
And that's not something I want to replicate again, so don't try that at home.