Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

johnclineii

Quite some time ago, I warned of a possible job action delaying introduction of the Freesytle/Five Hundred/Montego. I was quickly informed by others on this board that I was not correct and there was no way that could happen.

It appears it may still happen. I sure hope not, but it may:

http://tinyurl.com/3989u

headcase

So my local dealership told my wife that they called into Ford, and was told the Freestyle won't be available until "late October". I don't know if this is speculation, or fact. But it is interesting that the Freestyle is still scheduled to begin assembly on July 12th... so you'd think that vehicles would start showing up at dealerships a few weeks later...

Oh, and as for the union vote at the plant assembling the Freesytle/Five Hundred/Montego, it looks a little ominous, but no telling if/until they actually go on strike.

http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2004/06/17/business/busine- - ss/af9a20a66a2e360986256eb5007a8b67.txt

ANT14

Late October is pushing it... It'll be before that.

johnclineii

Assuming, of course, the union does not vote to strike. If they do, and the strike is a long one, these vehicles could be delayed for months or even years. The plant in Chicago was adapted for flexible manufacturing of these three vehicles. It is not a simple matter to move production elsewhere.

Unlike the Taurus, which was produced in Chicago AND Atlanta, Ford is putting all its eggs for the Five Hundred/Montego/Freestyle in one basket--in Chicago. Ford public relations has done an extremely good job of keeping this potential labor outage quiet.

And before anyone asks, I have NO connection with Ford or the union. I'm just a customer and investor who is beginning to question the wisdom of this Ford strategy.

stickguy

the dealer. They will always downplay the upcoming new vehicle, trying to sell you what they have on the lot. If you think the freestyle is 4 months out, theres a better chance you will buy a (Escape/Freestar/Explorer) today, as opposed to waiting until next week to see the new hot ticker.

ANT14

That is quite correct.

jchan2

would rather you buy something now so they make $$$ off of you now rather than later.

mgpmgp

Has the Freestyle been classified as a truck or a car? I had heard Ford was working to change its designation from a car to a truck. I heard perhaps that the fold flat floor would qualify it to be a truck. If that is the case then it might be equipped with privacy glass on the side windows.

jchan2

The name would mean that Ford classifies it internally as a car since all Ford car names begin with an F while all SUV and truck names begin with E, and all heritage names (F150, Mustang, Thunderbird) keep their original name.

ANT14

We all know it's a car, and it's car-based, but by certifying it as a truck it allows Ford to gain favorable CAFE credits.

johnclineii

So, given what Subaru did with the Outback, is the Five Hundred ALSO a truck for EPA purposes???

ANT14

Nope, rear seat doesn't fold flat/removable. These are the guidelines by the government on how vehicles are classified. Which is why the PT Cruiser is also classified as Truck. Same with the Dodge Magnum.

jchan2

Wouldn't the Honda Civic therefore, qualify as a truck then? It has a split folding rear seat that folds almost flat, and therefore creates a flat load floor much like a minivan, which means it could be classified as a light truck.

ANT14

I believe it's the method the seat is bolted onto the frame/floor of the vehicle. If it's removeable, it qualifies.

johnclineii

Actually there are five criteria that qualify a vehicle as a truck if four are met. And, FYI, the Outback does NOT have a removable rear seat....

stever

Mine comes out of my '99 Outback.

I have to take two bolts out, of course :-)

Steve, Host
(ok, it's just the seat bottom I've taken out once or twice)

ANT14

Then I ask, why would somewhat want to remove those seats anyways?

stever

I took mine out to cram a bit more junk in the wagon (and make the floor a bit flatter) on a short camping trip. Wasn't worth it.

Steve, Host

jchan2

ok. I get it now. So, the Civic can't be classified as a light truck if I can't find a way to yank the seat out with a set of tools?

ANT14

There's some other criteria, I know one of them has to do with being able to fold down the rear seat, and being able to move it somehow. Granted, any rear seat can be removed, but I believe it's in the process of how it's done.

johnclineii

From title 49 of the US code, a truck for purposes of CAFE is:

***Truck – a 4-wheel vehicle which is designed for off-road operation (has 4-wheel drive or is more than 6,000 lbs. GVWR and has physical features consistent with those of a truck); or which is designed to perform at least one of the following functions: (1) transport more than 10 people; (2) provide temporary living quarters; (3) transport property in an open bed; (4) permit greater cargo-carrying capacity than passenger-carrying volume; or (5) can be converted to an open bed vehicle by removal of rear seats to form a flat continuous floor with the use of simple tools.***

So, from that description, it appears that both ANT14 and our host are right!

My question remains. Will Ford consider the Freestyle and/or Five Hundred trucks?

ANT14

Good find there....

The Freestyle will be a truck classification, the 500 will not be truck classified. Ford is requesting/filing only the Freestyle, as a truck, not the 500.

stever

I think my Outback gets disqualified because it doesn't have an open bed. I'm not quite ready to take a Saws All to the roof. But maybe it qualifies with the AWD since Subaru calls most of their vehicles trucks for CAFE purposes now.

So a Freestyle isn't a van anymore - interesting spin :-)

Steve, Host

jchan2

vans are classified as light trucks by the EPA due to the fact that they have a flat load floor and seats that fold down or come out of the car easily.

ANT14

The Freestyle was never designed with the perception to be a van (That's GM's spin). It was simple a cross between a station-wagon and SUV, and that's what the result is. Although I'm sure many will cross shop it with the Freestar, if they dislike the Freestar but insist on having a Ford with more flexibility without the truckiness of an Explorer.

stever

Yeah, no sliders. I keep forgetting this discussion is linked to both SUVs and Vans. I wonder if we'll morph another board to cover the crossovers. Good thing y'all are keeping me honest because I can't keep track!

Steve, Host

figueroafamily

I was out thanks to Graduate School & technical glitches.

Thanks for the "keep my Contour alive" suggestions, ANT14. However, it's also killing slowly its timing belt, it shuts down when least expected (twice today), and other miscellaneous joys.

In short, it's hinting: "Get a Freestyle!"

Sam

figueroafamily

No sign of even a brochure two weeks before Job One? That sucks.

Anyway, my piggybank should be a bit healthier by then. So I see a silver lining (or was it a lightning? .

* Since Freestyle will (hopefully) gain a truck classification, will the windows on second row be tinted? Yes, I'm resurrecting an old question.
* Any idea when Auto Critics like Car & Driver and others will publish their opinions on Freestyle?

Sam

odie6l

now my wife is getting into the fray...she want to maybe look at trading My '01 Escape XLT 4WD V6 come spring for either (depending on which SHE likes) the Freestyle or a Grand Caravan w/ stoNgo. I'm still pulling for the Freestyle.. besides I bought her HER '03 Accord Ex for our 4th anniv. present.

Odie

kjnorman

So with a Job1 date of July 12 that also happens to be my birthday, how long will it take for the freestyle to hit the showrooms?

And, as these are being built in Illinios is there a good chance that these will turn up in the Midwest (more specifically Milwaukee) sooner than other parts of the country?

Cheers.
Kerry

ANT14

Expect a few weeks after. First batch will be held to oversee quality assurance.

figueroafamily

I just went to the media.ford.com site. The latest production report is mid-June. They say "Chicago is gearing up for 500/Freebie/Mont production".

I'll check for the next ones, for the third & fourth week of June. It should say "starting production in Chicago", (or some major preparation step) to meet that mid-July date. Unfortunately, those reports have a two-week lag. Thus, we won't know when they start from those reports until 2 weeks later.

I hope they do an article saying "first 500/Freebie/Mont leave assembly line". That will be our hint.

Sam

johnclineii

I thought production was scheduled to begin July 12...barring any labor action at the plant (about which I have heard no recent news).

Meanwhile, perhaps the embargo is ending soon:

http://tinyurl.com/ywabp

hbcsc153

Hello!

Does anyone have any idea as to what sort of price tag will be on the Freestyle, or a location where I maybe able to look this up?

Thanks,

Emil

ANT14

Here's the ordering guide link.

http://www.fordaxz.com/pdf/2005.freestyle.og.pdf

Prices not set yet...

ANT14

The fuel estimates for 2005 model cars has been released by Ford.

Follow the link...

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=17877&ma- ke_id=92

Depending upon configuration, 20/27 and 19/24.

figueroafamily

Thanks for the link, ANT14.

In Fuel economy, Freestyle FWD:
* Beats a Windstar/Monterey by 2+ MPG
* Loses in City but ties Highway with Toyota Sienna
* Loses to a 500/Montego FWD by 1 MPG (very nice, considering the aero advantage of a car over wagons).

In Fuel economy, Freestyle AWD:
* Beats an Escape/Mariner & Freestar/Monterey by 1-2 MPG.
* Beats an Explorer by 4-5 MPG (either 6 or 8 Cylinders).
* Beats City & ties Highway with Toyota Sienna AWD
* Loses Highway to a 500/Montego by 2 MPG (very nice, considering the aero advantage of a car over wagons).
* Loses to a 500/Montego 6-speed 4WD by 2 MPG City & 5 Highway. (Recall the Amy Marentic interview way back where she said ""little difference" in 6-sp vs. CVT economy? It's just 1 MPG Highway.)

I noticed the list has Freestyle as a car/wagon, so our 2nd row windows may likely be unshaded. Rats!

Sam

ANT14

Let's keep in mind, that EPA fuel estimates, are just that...estimates... You could do better, or worse. I myself have made a Civic do 18MPG, all depends on your driving habits.

The CVT will do better than the 6 Speed auto in city driving, in normal driving behavior. But remember, how the tests are conducted to evalutes the EPA of a car, is a bit prehistoric overall, and there's very easy ways to fool the system.

The 6 Speed will shine more on the highway of the CVT or in situation's where less shifting is required.

Next up, will be how it feels, and if some consumer's are willing to give up the sensations of a traditional step transmission, over a CVT.

badgerfan

Are all over the map compared to real world. For instance, few if any have gotten anywhere the EPA estimates for their hybrids.

I have exceeded the EPA highway mileage easily in my 2000 Duratech Taurus, which has an EPA highway mileage rating of 27. I can get 1-3 MPG better at sustained speeds of 70+.

So, don't place complete faith in these EPA estimates, they are based on an artificial specification. Actual results may vary by quite a bit.

jchan2

depend on driver habits, how fast you go, where you drive, your city/highway mix, and other factors outside the control of the EPA.

figueroafamily

I agree they are estimates. Yet, most people can ballpark their own MPG based on those numbers and experience. It should ONLY be a reference point to ball park yours.

For example:
* My leaded foot keeps my average MPG closer to City than Highway on average. Average means the weekly work commute, local shopping, etc.
* My old Contour did 35 MPG (vs. 34 EPA) on long Cruise Control rides doing 65 in its glory days. When I did 70+, MPG went down to 30, attributable to a powerless L-4.
* Thus, I can ballpark my prospective Freestyle AWD's "Sam MPG". It will get me (ballpark +/- football field) 21 MPG on average, and 25 on a long cruise.

The other side of the coin is the CVT. I'll use myself as the example again. My driving style is to press the pedal "hard" until reaching the desired speed.
* On a N-gear transmission, you get several MPG levels, as the tranny moves up/shifts from less to more efficient.
* CVT would be steady at the "best" MPG tranny position all along. And you won't have shifting, which undoubtedly is more efficient.

In short, I won't be surprised to get higher MPG than the traditional "Sam MPG" ballpark above. Your own "name here MPG" ballpark should also become an under-estimate.

Where's my Freestyle?

Sam

samnoe

As I read somewhere (I think in Detroit news?) that the Freestyle will (finally) have new power window switches which will be safer than the current rocker switches used on most Ford models.

The new ones will be similar to many imported models (Toyota, etc.) which requires to pull up the switch with a single finger, so there will be no 'accidents' with little children.

The only thing I really hope, that Ford will continue to offer it with lighted controls, like they did with the current rocker switches. I just love it. IMO, it's both a convenience and safety feature.

And I encourage Ford (and all others) to add illuminated controls for power mirror controls as well. And, if possible, illuminated ignition key ring and glove box - actually Ford always used to offer a lighted glove box, but they stopped in the new Freestar. They also eliminated the illuminated power/volume control from the Freestar's audio system. (The Freestyle seems to have the same audio system as freestar).

ANT14

Yes Ford is adopting new window switches to prevent children from having accidents because of stupid irresonsible parents that leave them unattended in the vehicles.

badgerfan

I agree with your comments 100%. My Taurus has a lockout switch available so kids cannot operate the rear windows, also when the key is removed and any door is opened by that irresponsible parent leaving the car, the windows will not operate. There is a convenient time delay that allows the windows to be operated for a few seconds when the car is turned off, but once a door is opened, that delay is ended immediately. Seems plenty safe enough to me, as long as you remove the key and open a door!

This issue is all of a sudden hitting the press, and though pull up switches do make them safer, the root cause of the problem is irresponsible parents.

Why isn't anyone (except for a minor comment in CR's ratings) getting too upset that GM has begun eliminating childproof rear door lockout systems that have been on most sedans for many years? That seems much more of a safety item being decontented than the window switch issue!

odie6l

I was told today when I went to a different dealer than the one I got the bad experience at that the price will range between $24k - $34k depending on model and options.

oh and just because the vehicle is classified as a car / wagon doens't mean you won't get tinted windows...my Escape is classified as a SW (Station Wagon) and I have the privacy glass (darker tinted windows)

Odie

odie6l

I got the Preveiw guide today from the dealership that told my the price range. The Freestyle is compared to the Buick Rendezvous and Chrysler Pacifica in the booklet. There are also some nice pics and very good detail of intereior and options. I'm gonna try and scan the booklet and post links, but I'm not sure how well it will turn out. It does NOT say anything about the 3.5ltr only the 3.0 DOHC V-6. Also it says all model will have 18in aluminum wheels with Pirelli Tires. If you have a chance swing by one of your dealers and see if they have the "PREVIEW GUIDE" just incase I cannot scan the images.

Odie

headcase

so where's the scanned images, and what are the prices in the preview guide?

johnclineii

Prices are not yet determined....

figueroafamily

Ford is allowing test drives of Freestyle, 500 & F150 at select locations. You can enroll in it, yet that may not mean you'll enter. (They do "invited people" first.) You could win a two-year lease sweepstakes.

Check the following website.

http://www.fordinnovationdrive.com

They completely forgot about the New York area. And I don't live near any of the current locations. Rats!

If any of you can get in, all digi-picture evidence you can provide is appreciated. Write-ups about the drive, etc. are equally welcome.

Sam

headcase

yippee -- four cities for the entire US? If Ford thinks this (in addtion to the Virginia event last week) constititutes a "Year Of The Car" US summer roadshow, they must be smoking something really good in the marketing department.

Hopefully someone can visit one of these cities and provide a review here.