Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

biggie2

As long as the materials are of high quality, id rate the Ford interior best in class easy... Plus i think the vehicle looks good, boring but good. Nothing actually wrong with the design, just average.

Compare the freestyles interior with the honda pilot or toyota highlander and it is like night and day.

rctennis3811

Heck, its better than what GM is putting on the market with its SUVs, excluding Cadillac!

jchan2

I like it, and the exterior styling, how bland it may be.

wsibi04

all right to me too. It's definitely not the most stylish car out there but it's not bad. I see the Explorer lineage there and some Volvo and MDX styling cues. Anyone have the specs for it yet? Hope it isn't longer than the Explorer. I'm considering the Highlander now but will wait to see more on the Freestyle. If Ford keeps the price in the $25K range, I'm definitely interested!

ANT14

Yes it will be longer than the Explorer. The Explorer isn't long by any means, at 189.5 inches long it's 10 inches shorter than a Taurus and Freestar. Although many perceive it's bulkiness and height, for being huge. It's all in the packaging.

The Freestyle's Length: 199.8 Width: 73.0 Height: 64.9. Wheelbase : 112.9 Curb Weight: 3959 lb (front-wheel drive) 4112 lb (all-wheel drive).

Although, do not confuse this as a Highlander or Pilot competitor. The only competitor to this vehicle officially is the Chrysler Pacifica. It's a combination Stationwagon/Suv-like/Minivan-like Crossover. Although many people will cross-shop it with car-based SUV's.

rcf8000

It looks to me like the Freestyle design corrects a lot of shortcomings in the Pacifica, such as excess weight and body width, marginally useful third row seat, poor visibility toward the rear corners, no 7 passenger option, and little cargo volume behind the third row. I hope the performance of the Freestyle is better than the Pacifica, although 200HP doesn't seem like enough, even with the CVT's advanages.

johnson401

Great looking interior (looks like Audi) and exterior not a bad conservative design. However, Ford has a serious problem with the new Five Hundred and Freestyle- the 3 liter motor will not cut it for 4,000lb + AWD vehicles. They need at least 3.3-3.5 liters like the competition. I can't believe that Ford has invested all this money in new product development and hasn't make the engine competitive.

wsibi04

Thanks ANT14, for those specs. It makes sense now that the Freestyle would need to be longer than the Explorer, given it's class leading passenger space in the second and third row. I didn't get the impression from the pictures that it was that much longer than the Explorer. Wish it was a little shorter though so that it could park more easily in tight city parking spaces and that it had a little more hp.

ANT14

A 3.5L Duratec35 will be introduced a year after these vehicles debut, Ford has announced this publically already.

The CVT is geared for 6:1 ratio, which is much higher than the commonly high 4:1 that some vehicles already have. In comparison, a regular Taurus has an axle ratio gearing of 3:77 and 3:98 on some model years. Accord usually uses 4:41's, while Ford's highest on tow equiped SUV's are usually 4:10 at it's highest. Therefore 6:1 is quite high.

Also take note, a few other items like Drive-by-wire and improved torque converter's will also help with performance. They could have easily equiped this engine with 240HP which is what it's capable of (as in the Jag S-type), but don't let the 200HP deceive you, it certainly won't feel like the Pacifica which feels as if it's running out of breath at high RPM.

odie6l

the 3.0 v6 that is in the escape is what is going to be starting out in the freestyle. The Escape has a curb weight of 3345lbs, and the 3.0 has more than enough power. You figure add in an additional (est.) 150 - 200 lbs. per passenger for adults and you can top the 4000lbs weight mark easily. It you do any towing, you also have to add in the weight of the trailer and cargo to the fact. The 3.0ltr has Plenty of spare power for the freestyle. And also with the 260hp 3.5ltr coming for the 2006 model in both the Freestyle and the Escape / Tribute twins you will see alot more people grabbing them up like Grande sized Nacco's at Bueno Nacho. (Booya)

Odie

explorerx4

i'm going to withhold judgement until i see one in person. i drive ford, my wife drives what she wants; sometimes ford, sometimes another brand.
personally, i like a good interior, since that is what you see most of the time.

jchan2

The much stronger Duratec 35 will go in the Freestyle after the 2004 model year- for those of you concerned about power, wait until 2005 to shop.

wheelz4

Any word on how much? The Pacifica starts at 45 grand in Canada.....hopefully the Freestyle will be a lot more reasonable.

odie6l

I've heard $23k (base) - $35k (loaded to the gills)

Odie

fsmmcsi

ANT14, the final drive is just part of the picture. You need to multiply the transmission gear ratio by the final drive ratio. The torque multiplication with the CVT varies from about 12:1 to 2:1, which is the factor of six range you mentioned. The engine turns 12 times for every turn of the drive wheels when just starting to move, so it should accelerate very well. With the engine turning twice for every rotation of the drive wheels, it should also give quiet highway operation and good mileage.

jchan2

will help boost MPG numbers, I guess.

ANT14

"ANT14, the final drive is just part of the picture"

Yes I'm quite familiar with the CVT, more than I would want to be actually. It's geared for optinal acceleration, while returning back good fuel economy. Ford publically stated it'll have better fuel economy than it's competitors, while using regular 87 octane fuel. I'm guessing 21-22CTY/32HWY, but this is just an educated guess according to the numbers they have shared. There's no .Cd they have posted, which I'm safely guessing 32HWY.

jchan2

is better than what my Odyssey gets with a traditional five speed automatic. Must be that CVT. I was just thinking, and reading the Ford Auto Show section, that the Five-Hundred, with its huge trunk, implied big backseat and high driver seat would make a great taxi or police car. Or at least a better one than the Crown Victoria. Because the Ford website says that the Five Hundred has a larger trunk than the Crown Victoria.

fsmmcsi

The Ford press web site gives all of the Five Hundred / Montego interior dimensions, and the some of the Freestyle dimensions, so you can use Edmunds Specifications data to compare the new vehicles to vehicles now for sale. The dimensions are:

Front head 39.4
Front hip 54.2
Front leg 41.3
Rear head 38.6
Rear hip 54.1
Rear leg 40.9
Trunk 21 cubic feet (47.4 behind the second row on the Freestyle)
Tires 225/55/18
Wheelbase 112.9
Lbs. 3,815 (awd) (4,112 for the awd Freestyle)
Length 200.7 (199.8 for the freestyle)
Width 73.7 (73.0 for the Freestyle)
Height 60.1 (64.9 for the Freestyle)

tomcat630

"Dull"

This isn't a segment like the Mustang. If it was the new Toyota Avalon or Highlander, people would be going on about "Toyota does it again!"

jchan2

that's all about people's perception about American cars.

ANT14

Yes the 500 has the largest trunk of any passenger car, and one of the longest knee spaces of any passenger car. All within the same length of a Taurus. It's ALL about packaging.

stickguy

is basically the same engine used in the Mazda MPV (same output also). SInce the MPV weighs about the same as a FWD Freestyle, performance should be similar. The MPV is generally considered to have plenty of power for it's size.

So, the Freestyle (particularly the AWD) probably won't be a screamer, but should have plenty of power for most normal use. Or, wait a year for the big motor.

jchan2

at least it will sip MPG compared to the bigger Explorers and 4Runners of the world.

nvbanker

I wonder if the 500 will replace the Crown Vic in Taxi & Police applications. The thing the Crown Vic has going for it is it's tough as Neutronium and lasts 500,000 miles easy.

brockwaydubois

I must say that I'm disappointed in the look of the production version of the Freestyle introduced at the 2004 Detroit Auto show. What happened to the exciting look of the concept that we saw last year? That car looked great! When a design is that simple and clean, little tweaks can make a big difference, and that seems to be what happened here. The beltline seemed higher in the concept, and the rear side window didn't drop as low as it does in the production model. The smaller, higher window gave the concept a stronger, beefier appearance. The front end of the concept looked better too - A little more squared-off at the bumper and maybe a bit shorter. The cool headlights and taillights are gone too (though I see that the Ford Five Hundred uses headlights similar to the Freestyle concept)
  And what happened to the BEST feature - the RETRACTABLE ROOF!? That feature really set it apart - it also made me want to run to the showroom and buy one as soon as it was available. I hope they decide to offer that at some time.

Still not a bad job though - but that concept at the 2003 show was right on the money.

ANT14

"SInce the MPV weighs about the same as a FWD Freestyle, performance should be simila"

It'll be, and more importantly, will FEEL quicker than the MPV due to better transmission gearing, as well as drive-by-wire techonology.

"I wonder if the 500 will replace the Crown Vic in Taxi & Police applications. The thing the Crown Vic has going for it is it's tough as Neutronium and lasts 500,000 miles easy."

Ford will not be selling this vehicle for police or taxi conversions. Although if you do see a few 500 Taxi's, I can tell you they didn't buy them with a fleet discount.

The Police and Taxi duty will stay with the Crown Vic since it's Body on Frame construction is much more durable for curb plowing, and RWD allows for better performance. A few municipalities that have bought Impala's are discovering it's limitation of FWD and complaining over it. While DCX's Intrepid's are catching fire from their front brakes in high speed manuever's.

"The beltline seemed higher in the concept, and the rear side window didn't drop as low as it does in the production model. "

The concept is just that, a concept. It's to give people a tease as to what the vehicle might be come production time. The best way I view concepts are from aware, and blur your vision a bit, and THAT's what your getting. Many times concepts will have fancy gadgets (like the retractable roof) to gauge consumer reaction. And many times it'll have engines that might not make the light of day.

Then you have some common sense items to look over. Most concepts do not have much of a bumper, or they look rather weak. Certainly these will NOT make production. And many have that high beltline to make the vehicle look sleeker. Realistically, a low belt line makes the interior feel much more spacious and is a common engineering/styling trick to convey it. A low cowl and tall green house also allow that feeling.

Overall it's one of Ford's closest (come to light) concepts. The Mustang concept is also quick similar to the production version. And the 500's "sketch" is dead on, with what's being produced...Unlike the Montego sketch which shows the car to be low to the ground, have dual-exterior color, and massive wheels....None which made it.

stickguy

I think it looks nice. Front end is definitly Ford, and the back looks MDX-ish, but somewhat cleaned up and smoothed out (that is, a little less overdone). Looks to have a ton of room inside, which is one of the drawbacks to me of most crossovers (MDX, Highlander), since we have a minivan now.

Where is this going to be produced? I showed the pics to my wife, and her first comment was "but it's an American car". Told her about the Volvo platform (she likes the XC90), but I don't think whe wwas really paying attention.

fsmmcsi

The Lexus LS430 cut one second from the 0-60 time when the transmission was upgraded from five to six gears. Since the new Fords will have either the six speed or the CVT, they will also accelerate significantly better than older vehicles such as the MPV, even if the weight is the same.

luck11

Here's a new pic of the Freestyle, in two-tone, from the Cdn. site. I liked the more subtle two tone of the Freestyle FX.

http://www.ford.ca/english/showroom/FordSUVs/2005Freestyle/photo.- html

I have to agree with brockwaydubois about the styling. They lost some small but important details from the concept, as brockway mentioned, including taillights, headlights and also the side-mirror turn markers. These would have kept the freestyle in-line with current styling of its competitors. The headlights in particular have little appeal....they remind my of styling from years ago. Perhaps I am being biased by the fact that I am a current Subaru owner and find the new Outback and Legacy design rather appealing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

That said, I retract my earlier comments that the Freestyle is completely off my short list. I will with-hold final opinion until I can see one in person....supposedly in Fall 2004 here in Canada. Can't make it to the Autoshows unfortunately.

In the meantime, if anyone has any new pics to post, please do so.

ANT14

"Where is this going to be produced? I showed the pics to my wife, and her first comment was "but it's an American car". Told her about the Volvo platform (she likes the XC90), but I don't think whe wwas really paying attention"

Chicago, IL ... Ford will move the current vehicle being produced there (Ford Taurus) over to the ATL plant. The Chicago plant has been/is being renovated for improved manufacturing. This includes a flexible assembly line that allows the 500/Montego or Freestyle be produced with a flick of a switch. If they see they need more Freestyle production, then "click".

stickguy

this looks to have as much, if not more, room as my wifes '99 Quest, especially with the rear seat folded. Definitely looks like more rear cargo space with 7 seats up than the MDX, and vastly more than the Highlander.

Guess that 200" length pays off in interior packaging.

Hope they have one to see at the Phila. car show at the end of this month.

tomcat630

"I showed the pics to my wife, and her first comment was "but it's an American car"."

Perceptions by people who believe hear-say is the biggest obsticle. It will probably take longer warranties and 10 years of Consumer Reports "recommended" ratings before perceptions change.

ANT14

Actually now that you mention this. I had a boss many years ago who would just buy Lexus'. I asked her why, she stated that because she was jewish, she wasn't allowed to buy German vehicles since she had some relatives in Auchwitz.

She also owned an Explorer and stated she only bought it because it was American. Needless to say I spoiled her news when I told her the engine was built in Cologne Germany. There went her perception!

stickguy

One thing I do know is that MDXs depreciate a whole lot less than a domestic. I would be a little concerned on a brand new design (including CVT tranny) from any manufacturer, and especially Ford. Plus, it is likely that depreciation will not be your friend.

Worst case scenerio is buying early w/o big discounts or rebates, running into lots of early build quality issues, and being completely buried in a few years when you want to get rid of it.

Wait, that was my '96 Voyager... (although I actually lost very little on it, but it only cost 20K to start with).

Anyway, maybe Ford will have an attractive lease program, or I will just wait a little longer to see how they turn out.

jchan2

just wait for CR's reliability report.

bretaa

To Tomcat630...

Perceptions do take a while to change. The 10 year comment probably isn't so far off. If Detroit can build bulletproof cars for that long, improve visual and tactile quality (interiors, panel gaps) and increase their used car value by 2014 or so, they'll be as desirable as the Japanese models.

For example, my parents had some of the worst models of the 70's (Vega, Volare) and a friend had a Pinto. Now, we laugh in retrospect, but the "buy American" move was strong then and these cars were winning "Car of the Year" awards and accolades all over the place. Well, it took about 20 years for my parents to buy American cars again (Chrysler minivans, PT Cruiser, SHO Taurus) but it did happen. I think Detroit has stopped the heavy bleeding and now needs to work on "conquest" sales and consistency.

My beef is that bland styling like the 500 and Freestyle won't win over many people on their own. Look at Nissan for an example of this. People walk by a 350 sports car or a Murano and go "wow, what's that?" I doubt the same will happen with the Freestyle.

Bret

fsmmcsi

This is the freestyle board, but I don't see the Five as Bland, but rather as good looking as the new E-class, a truely excellent design. As for the Freestyle, I would have preferred that it look just like a Five Hundred - same fenders, hood, and front end, and no big arches over the wheels. In other words, like a Five Hundred wagon, rather than an SUV. However, I understand that Ford's markert research showed that more people prefer the SUV look, so that it what they will build.

jchan2

reminds me of a Passat GLX 4Motion. Especially the wheels and side door handles.

nedzel

That's almost as much as my 4200 lb V8 4WD 4Runner. Too much pork for a 3.0

odie6l

I was told today by local dealer that the FX model will not come out for 3 years due to GM's Hold on the retractable roof. Apperently there is a clause with the manufacturer's that states if they make it first it has to be 3yrs before it can be added to other model in other manufacturer's line up. Example, when Dodge first put the rear opening door on the Ram, No other manufacturer could put it on their truck till after the 3 years period. But it was only limited to Trucks, because GM got around the clause by putting it on the Saturn coupe. It's just what he told me. I've heard similar from other people stating the same thing, but I've never actually seen it in writing.

Odie

jchan2

can we expect a Freestyle FX in 2008? Or, if the GMC Envoy XUV disappears in a few years, then Ford can rush the retractable roof on the Freestyle.

rcf8000

Studebaker had a retractable roof 40 years ago.

theo2709

You wanna talk about fires in police cars? How about the sudden jump of lawsuits of Interceptors blowing up in rear-end collisions? Don't dismiss the Intrepid for having faulty brakes when the Crown Vic is pulling a major Pinto.

ANT14

Yes, when a Police interceptor is parked on the emergency sidelane on a highway, and a car plows at 70MPH, it will blow up. It too can happen on an Accord, Camry and pretty much every other vehicle out there, yet it would be un-holy to mention such a thing.

NHTSA has concluded that the Crown Vic does pass the federal standards for rear impact safety protection. And there's been roughly 20 (last time I read) accidents since the car inseption back in the early 80's that have blown up from massive rear impacts... ALL impacts that have occured to the INTERCEPTOR model...No civilian models have been affected... Why? Because they aren't parked at the side of the highway and have a car ram them at 70MPH.

Ford still controls 80+% of the Police cruiser market, and ironically, one cities' Police Dept (I believe Dallas) who has a lawsuit against them, actually had the balls to ORDER more Crown Vic, whereas FORD told them "uh, NO since your suing us"...(Detroit News Article)

A few other municipalities have dropped their lawsuits after they started using Impala's and Intrepids, to avoid from having Ford place a "No sale" on them so they return to Crown Vics.

jchan2

any car will blow up if you plow into it at 75 miles per hour. I'm sure a Camry, Explorer, H2, 9-3 and GS430 would all blow up if you plowed into them at the right speed.

fsmmcsi

The Pinto erupted in flames after lower speed collisions. As the others stated, the CV police cars were hit at high speeds. There is/was a problem bolt which would puncture the gas tank, so some departments cut the bolt shorter.

The gas tank on the new Five Hundred, Freestyle, and Montego is located under the rear seat, rather than above the rear axle as on the CV, so it should perform even better.

The main safety problem with the new Daimler - Chrysler cars is the lowered roof and resultant lack of visibility. Have you driven a Pacifica? It is very difficult to back one into a parking space, especially since they did not even bother to offer proximity sensors. The new Magnum appears to be even worse. It will be easy to see out in all directions from the driver's seat in the Freestyle.

jchan2

I think DaimlerChrysler is in a way creating a safety problem. What if there's a small kid behind your AWD Pacifica, and you can't see it? You'll run over it and face a lawsuit from the kid's parents. What if there's an old senior citizen behind your Magnum parked at the local Wal-Mart and you can't see him/her? You'll run over him/her and get in a big fat lawsuit. At least offer Parktronic, which is a pretty low cost option.

ANT14

Doesn't the Pacifica have rear sensors?

Understandably it's obviously a driver's fault if he bumps into a pedestrian, but I'm using the word BUMP, for you can hear if you have hit something while parking.

Although I wouldnt' say this is a kid or old-person issue... I'm learning that regular normal idiots are also becoming part of the problem. Even at Home Depot I have a fully loaded kart, I'm running down the aisle quickly, PEOPLE see me, and there WILL always be ONE idiot who just gets in the way.

Personally, if I see something THAT heavy charging at me, just as a car... I MOVE. Although I've had to YELL in advance to move, because people just plant them as a deer with headlights aimed at it.

fsmmcsi

No, the Pacifica does not offer rear proximity sensors. Ugly aftermarket ones can be added. The fact that they are not even optional, when they are so widely available on other vehicles, points to a possible D-C strategy to sell expensive body parts - design the cars to be so hard to see out of that they are more likely to wreck. I hope insurance rates on the D-C products are higher so that the rest of us do not pay for the bad designs.

ANT14 - why would you want to be "running down the isle quickly" in a Home Depot, especially with other people and kids busy shopping? Seems like the same behavior as those who try to drive behind a car which has already started to back out of a parking space.