Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

jchan2

if the Pacifica is to be billed as a upmarket crossover, then why not have the sensors installed? All of your competitors offer them optional, minus the MDX.

ANT14

"if the Pacifica is to be billed as a upmarket crossover, then why not have the sensors installed? All of your competitors offer them optional, minus the MDX."

Give them awhile and they'll offer it. The consumer's will ultimately pressure them to do so.

"ANT14 - why would you want to be "running down the isle quickly" in a Home Depot, especially with other people and kids busy shopping?"

I have shopping to do, I'm discussing people's lack of common sense, and how some just ACHE to get injured.

Reminds me of a story of a driver who got shot and killed. The whole MEDIA went on a "victim spree"... the usual BS of "He was a pillar in the community"... "oh he was a saint"... "oh he volunteered so much"... "Oh he was a str8 A student".. UH HUH... Well the reason he was shot to death (and they FAILED to mention) was because he cut off the driver (that killed him) rudely, and slammed his brakes at that when he did.

NOT saying that being shot is right when other safer alternatives could have been used, but it makes you wonder what the other side of the story is, and how much common sense was used.

stever

What's amazing is how few cars blow up considering all the wrecks that happen every day. Mostly they blow up in the movies.

A brief Google news search only turns up two or three car fires due to wrecks so far this year in NA, the biggest one(s) happening due to the 50 car pile-up on I-80 in PA last week.

I'm going to stay away from Ant's Home Depot though! <g>

Steve, Host

ANT14

Heh :-) Actually it was just remodeled, and now it has tool rental and a huge garden center, self scanning check-outs and much better parking overall. Loving it !! And the Expo center is near by as well.

jchan2

My local KMart once had self scan checkout. They got rid of it after a few months though and replaced it with a seasonal display. I don't shop there anymore, mainly because I'd much rather go to Target and shop (which is right across the road) instead of pulling into the dingy KMart.

samnoe

Chrysler never offered rear parking sensors. They will now offer it for the very first time in the upcoming 2005 minivan. Welcome!

gzieve

I have enjoyed the Sable/Taurus station wagons for ten years. The Freestyle is the replacement. Why don't they just say that? I see nothing wrong with a station wagon, I've driven them for 20 years. I am a surfer and they take my equipment well. The flat folding of all three seats in the Freestyle will be great for long boards and sleeping. My only concern is that to get the feaures I want, thermostat, outside temperature and moon roof I'll have to touch 30K.

jchan2

It is in a way, more of a bloated Forester with an extra row of seats. Some could argue the Forester looks very wagon like, but Subaru still bills it as an SUV. The Freestyle will have AWD, which the Taurus/Sable never had. If you want all those features yet can't afford the price tag, wait a year or two and you can hunt for a used Freestyle with everything you want.

townhome

How does a Freestyle fit in with the Explorer and Escape? They are very similar in size and function, and I assume price. Why should someone choose a Freestyle?

jchan2

car like ride. car like fuel economy. AWD control without high step in height, but with a high seat. high MPG numbers, compared to Explorer. More room, compared to Escape AND Explorer. (Unibody design allows more usable space than a body on frame design)

theo2709

The Freestyle has a much, much nicer interior than any of Ford's BOF SUVs. The tradeoff comes with the weak engine.

jchan2

better MPG numbers. (especially when compared to the Ford Excursion)

stever

A new Home Depot opens tomorrow 2 miles away from me. I'm sunk... maybe if I allow myself to only walk there ;-)

For those who follow the Ford/Chevy wars:

"the Freestyle is targeting a growing segment of the market"

Who's On First: Chevy Or Ford? (Forbes)

Steve, Host

ANT14

Nah, you never walk to Home Depot, it always requires a car...there's soooo many things to look at, and some many things that might go home with you... I'm a bit of an impulsive buyer... :-)

Interesting story... What this reminds me of a story I read, where Lutz pretty much stated he was not going to build a vehicle to compete with the Pacifica or Freestyle. This was written about 2 years ago. YET in the Detroit Show we see the Chevy Nomad, which many critics have stated is really a possible Freestyle/Pacifica competitor.

Also worth noting (that the article didn't elaborate). Chevy is able to sustain higher sales since they have so many nameplates within the brand. And they'll continue to bring in even more vehicles to try and beat Ford which is what the articles concludes.

rctennis3811

Well that weak engine won't be weak next year with the introduction of the Duratec-35

stickguy

so, is the plan to have the debut in Sept. '04 with the 3.0, with the 3.5 showing up around Sept. '05 (as an '06 model)?

iglooheat

I can't wait for the new Freestyle to hit the showrooms. I've been waiting to see details on FS and the new GM minivans before making my buy decision, but the GM vans have turned out to be a big downer with no side-curtain airbags. I almost bought a Rendezvous last year . . . boy am I glad I waited for FS. I just wish this board seemed a bit more enthused

ANT14

so, is the plan to have the debut in Sept. '04 with the 3.0, with the 3.5 showing up around Sept. '05 (as an '06 model)? "

As officially stated by Ford in a press released called "Revolution Under the Hood", Ford has stated production of the Duratec 35 will start in the fall of 2005. So your looking at 2006 numbered Freestyle's with that possible engine. The engine will debut actually on another vehicle, then trickle down into the 500/Freestyle.

jchan2

This engine will bring more power to the Freestyle, for those that are absolutely yearning for more.

stickguy

Well, the current family wheels is a Nissan Quest with a wheezy old-tech 3.3l w/170HP. Certainly not fast, and not particularly efficient, so the Freestyle whould certainly be an improvement, since they weigh about the same.

The tranny can make a big difference on the usability of the power on hand, since a 4 speed AT can often be in the wrong gear.

grbeck

Too bad Ford didn't have this ready for the Freestyle/Five Hundred. From what I've been reading on other websites, the 3.0 will be struggling in these vehicles.

So far press reaction on the Freestyle has been uniformly favorable...unfortunately, the reaction to the Five Hundred/Montego has been mixed. I like them both, but wish the Five Hundred were a little less Audi-like in its styling. The Freestyle, on the other, looks about perfect for its market.

ehaase

The Five Hundred, Montego, and Freestyle are very handsome vehicles, even if the styling is derivative. This is better than GM's "angry appliances."

stickguy

the five hundred is the best looking American sedan in a long time (IMHO). Considering how much room it should have (interior and trunk), it should do very well if the driving dynamics are right

iglooheat

I have to disagree on the five hundred; the styling could have been more innovative. I'm a ford guy and I like the styling of the new GM's and the Chrysler 300 better. It's a good thing I'm not in the market for a sedan. As for the Freestyle, I think the styling is pretty good, but not groundbreaking. I'm not so keen on the monochromatic look, it is much more appealing with the two-tone look.
As for the powertrain, I'm ok with the 3.0 cvt as I'm more interested in mpg than neck-snapping acceleration.

jchan2

I seem to like the monochromatic look- it's just a matter of personal preference. The Five Hundred reminds me of something that might come from Audi/VW, which is certainly not a bad thing, if they can keep quality under control. The Ford looks are a little bit more innovative than the GM appliance look they're trying to do, but certainly less daring than DaimerChrysler's Part European Part American all Powerful look they're going for with the 300C and Magnum.

ANT14

Let's not forget, some of the better selling vehicles are stylistically boring, such as the Camry and Accord. So Ford was probably playing safe with the 500/Montego/Freestyle designs.

I also like the Freestyle in 2 tone, over the monochromatic look. The Limited Freestyle will receive the monochromatic treatment, while the lesser trims will receive 2 tone.

grbeck

The Camry may have boring styling (I'll disagree on the Accord), but it's already a best-seller. Ford is trying to come from behind in this segment, and it needs entries that attract attention.

The Five Hundred/Montego aren't bad-looking cars, but they look so much like current VWs and Audis that they will probably attract very little attention on the street. Most people will think they have seen them before.

Too bad Ford didn't turn to last year's 427 show car for inspiration. That one is stylish and 100 percent American in its look, stance and attitude.

rctennis3811

Well at least the Futura has the front grill of the 427. Way better!

jchan2

Ford is trying to copy Toyota's sucess, by going the bland route.

nvbanker

It's hard to argue with that kind of success...

grbeck

The problem with the Five Hundred isn't so much that it's bland...it is so derivative of current VW and Audi styling that it really doesn't LOOK new. Prospective buyers aren't going to see a new Five Hundred on the street and say, "Wow, what kind of car is that?"

If they are familiar with a VW Passat, they've seen it before.

ANT14

Which is why Audi is placing a new face on their newly released A8, almost a year after it's introduction :-) Think of it as a $70K plus VW Phaeton for more than half the price.

grbeck

I think the Five Hundred is more crucial to the future success of Ford than the A8 is to the viability of Audi.

jchan2

is trying to position the Five Hundred as a Volkswagen Passat alternative, instead of an Accord alternative. The Futura will compete with the Accord and Camry.

fsmmcsi

I participate in both the 500 / Montego and the Freestyle boards, but since there are two discussion boards, it would be better if the 500 vs Audi and other such things be on the 500 board.

jaserb

kinda bumped into it by accident. As a little background we've been thinking about a "crossover" type for our next vehicle in a couple of years, as we'd like a third row seat but don't want something really big. Our current car is a Hyundai Santa Fe, so we have some experience in the crossover idiom. The Mazda MPV is still the most likely candidate, but some of these new vehicles are looking interesting as well. At the show I spent a lot of time looking at the Caddy SRX and Volvo XC90, so I'll use them as comparisons for the Freestyle. We don't like the Pacifica at all, as it's as big as a Grand Caravan, with bloated styling and not much interior space.

So, the interior:
I kinda wiped both the SRX and XC90 from contention after sitting in their back seats. Even though the second rows are adjustable the third rows are mounted such that their occupants are forced to sit with their feet at nearly the same level as the seat - there's no footwell at all in the wayback. The SRX was the worst offender - even little kids would be uncomfortable with their feet 3 inches below tush level. The Freestyle was on a turntable with both doors open and I could see a substantial footwell in the third row. Assuming the second row is adjustable I'd say the back row is probably habitable for even decent sized adults. So, while I couldn't get close enough to judge the interior from a stylistic standpoint I think there's great functionality potential, which is more important for a family schlepper.

Exterior:
Looks sharp in maroon. I really like wagons, and that's what this is. Without looking at the numbers it seemed substantially smaller than the Pacifica. Seemed very similar to the SRX, without the jarring c-pillar angle that I just can't seem to get used to in the Caddy. Not exciting or earthshaking by any means but it's easy to look at and will likely remain attractive for years, unlike the "Jetsons" styling of the Murano, etc.

As far as I can tell, it's a Five Hundred wagon with optional AWD and a forward facing back seat(rather than rear facing, as in the Taurus). Marketing-speak notwithstanding I didn't see much SUV in there at all - certainly not in the ride height. If Ford can avoid any Focus-style launch problems we'll probably give it serious consideration in a couple of years.

-Jason

stickguy

if I recall the numbers correctly, the Freestyle is every bit as long as the Pacifica (but quite possibly not as tall). The Pcifica just seems bigger than it really is (even though it is big)

jaserb

Impressions are important, though, and the Pacifica seems much larger than the Freestyle. I'd be surprised if it isn't substantially taller and wider, anyway, even if it isn't any longer. The Freestyle is even longer than the Explorer, I think, but it seems much more manageable to me.

Okay, here's the specs on the Pacifica:
Overall Height - Standard (w/o Roof Rails) [in] 66.3
Overall Height - With Roof Rails [in] 66.5
Overall Length [in] 198.9 198.9 198.9
Overall Width (not including mirrors) [in] 79.3

From earlier in this group, I see the Freestyle is 199.8" long, 73" wide and 64.9" high.

So the Pacifica is 6" wider, 1.6" higher and about an inch shorter overall than the Freestyle. It must be the width and the styling that make it seem like such a beast. And, as wide as it is, it seems like they should have been able to make it a 7 seater!

-Jason

rcf8000

Check out the thickness of the Pacifica's doors. The Pacifica's 6 inches greater body width don't translate into 6 inches greater interior width, compared to Freestyle. According to the figures I've seen, the 2nd row hiproom is essentially identical for the two cars.

jchan2

are very thick.

odman

I had the same thoughts about the Freestyle being similar to the SRX. Sure, they are oriented towards two entirely different markets at different price points with different features, but the Freestyle has the same sharp styling, without being too angular.

I read that the Pacifica is actually wider than a Town and Country, so they should have found a way to fit an extra back-seat passenger in. People are more likely to need to fill seat #5 than #6, so putting #5 in the center makes sense.

Both the T&C and the SRX have very wide doors and door sills. I haven't seen the Freestyle in person yet so I don't know how it compares, but to me this is wasted space and makes getting in and out without getting covered in mud and road salt tricky. It is probably required for side impact protection, though.

jchan2

I've always thought of it as a Pacifica competitor, especially in Limited and SEL trims.

regfootball

the freestyle is a dead aim at the highlander.

jchan2

not as tall as the Highlander.

rcf8000

Freestyle is lots longer than the Highlander, though, and will have a roomier 3rd row seat and more room behind it. It looks more desirable than a Highlander in nearly all respects other than the power train.

explorerx4

toyota has a lot of crust calling that thing in the back a '3rd row'. when i went to the local auto show a while back, they had it folded down, so you wouldn't notice it. i opened it up and had my 11 year old 'try' to fit back there.
didn't know the freestyle is almost a foot longer than an explorer.
i think it's funny some have said the 2 tone freestyle is a takeoff on the outback, since ford has had two tone wagon body's since the (83-84?) eddie bauer broncoII.

ANT14

"the freestyle is a dead aim at the highlander. "

Not exactly, Ford has publically stated that the Pacifica is really it's only competitor. Ford will introduce a midsize SUV in 2 years to compete directly with the Highlander, a FWD/AWD Mazda6 platform based SUV with 3 row comfortable seating.

"toyota has a lot of crust calling that thing in the back a '3rd row"

Toyota wasn't planning on offering a 3rd row and once stated that THEIR customer's, were not looking for a 3rd row... WELL things obviously changed and they needed to swallow their BS since now they had to offer it. Unfortunately it's so badly done, that even kids will find a hard time being comfortable in there.

Although Toyota usually get's it right the 2nd time around...Like Sienna, Prius, Tundra. I'm going to take a look at it's rear IRS and see if that structure is allowed to accept a totally foldable third seat mounted much lower than it's current placing.

jchan2

has slow sales due to pricing- I think that the Freestyle wouldn't have the pricing problem.

rctennis3811

Plus, the Freestyle looks better inside.

rcf8000

I don't know that we can expect super competitive pricing, based on the fact that Explorers can go over $40,000 even for 6 cylinder RWD models. Of course, there's currently a $3000 incentive on them, which is an indication of where they SHOULD be priced. Maybe Ford will get their act together on the Freestyle pricing, but they know that buyers expect rebates these days and may price them accordingly.