Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

oldfarmer50

"...since I do such a poor job..."

You know I was kidding, right?

I guess how the public perceives lawyers depends on weather you are suing or being sued. Despite all the crazy lawsuits you hear about, most are filed with good cause. We tend to focus on the wacko ones or the golddiggers because they evoke a strong emotional response.

I remember a conversation I had with an elderly lady once. She said another car had hit her driver's door causing $1000 in damage. The insurance adjuster looked at it and said it was indeed $1000 worth of damage but he would only give her $900 and if she didn't like it she could sue them. That's when I say turn the lawyers loose!

Mr_Shiftright

I run into this nonsense in the appraisal business. Since disputes between insured and insurer about the value of a totalled car sometimes go to arbitration, many appraisers, working for the insured, will put an astronomical value on the car, thinking that when it gets to arbitration the referee will just "split the difference" and the insured will come out fat anyway.

I can't do this, it doesn't feel right. So I put a pretty realistic value on the car, and I'm always worried that my my client will get punished for asking for just what's fair. Many of the referees just assume your value is inflated.

Also if the rewards are too generous, the referee won't be chosen anymore by the insurance companies.

The system really sucks in that regard.

marsha7

farmer: yes, I knew you were kidding, but my sarcasm should be dripping about the same as yours...:):):):):)

shiftright: I see your point...an appraiser with an ethical outlook on life...if you give them an honest appraisal, they assume it's inflated (since EVERYBODY does it), which means your client may get screwed because they will offer less than your appraosed value, since you are "inflated"...while I always work for my client's benefit, I will ALWAYS allow ethics to trump over $$$, simply because I want to look into the mirror every morning without wanting to slit the throat of the guy I see shaving...:):):)

marsha7

Most lawyers do not actually demand a million $$$ for a $15K claim...but it is not unreasonable to demand $35K simply because the value of any case is an art, not a science...

Two people in different wrecks each have $10K in doctor bills...one broke a leg, suffered a 3 inch permanent scar on her face from being cut by broken glass, lost 5 weeks of work due to crutches, and was unable to take care of her 2 and 3 year old children, so she had to hire home help to do so...

The other one suffered severe neck and back injuries, missed no work (desk job) and had her live-in mother take care of the children...

The first case may be worth $75K, the second may be worth $25K to $35K, and may only be worth $20K in the real world...

same meds, different values, but there is no science to this, as juries may feel very different about each case...

What if the first driver, with the serious injuries, had two beers THREE HOURS earlier, was not anywhere near intoxicated but still had the smell of alcohol on her breath???...more than enough time for the body to metabolize the booze, but what if you had a bunch of religious Baptists on the jury who simply believed that drinking was a sin???...they might award her nothing simply because they are offended by alcohol, even tho her blood registered virtually nothing, and she was rear ended (not stated above) at a red light, so we know she has no fault in this wreck...

Juries are strange creatures, so one often asks for more than it is worth, simply because one never knows what is in the minds of 12 people you never met...so, if you only ask for $15K with $10K in med bills, you have not chosen your atty wisely, you have chosen a fool, and you would be a worse fool for finding an atty like that...

Don't be so quick to write off someone simply because you probably know little about the system in which we work...

fezo

" I will ALWAYS allow ethics to trump over $$$, simply because I want to look into the mirror every morning without wanting to slit the throat of the guy I see shaving..."

Have you tried growing a beard? :P

Mr_Shiftright

The arbitration process can be quite corrupt. I wish I had the time/money to entrap some of the local "mafia" doing this kind of thing.

marsha7

Since you asked, I had a beard for about 15 years, which I kept while it was solid black with a little white...over time it seemed that the white hairs grew in number while the black hairs seemed to give up the ghost...

When it became 50% white, I decided that I didn't need to look any older than I already am, so I found my razor and am now clean shaven, even shaving off my mustache that I had for 20 years...

Getting older is a bi*ch...:):):):):)

ckone0814

I'm looking for a safe, reliable car for my teen daughter and obviously cost to insure is important. Everytime I find a car I may be interested in purchasing, I call my Ins agent and ask, "how much?". I know a lot goes into this actual cost but I also know that each car has some sort of "code" that is a good barometer of how high the $ is...for eaxmple, an A is cheaper than an H.

Does anyone know if this information available on the .net somewhere where I can quickly get an idea? Thanks.

jeffyscott

Not quite what you asked for, but at allstate.com they have an option to get a "quick ballpark estimate". It does not require much information, takes less than 5 minutes. I used this as a quick way to compare.

One thing I discovered is that, all else being equal, you get a better deal on collision coverage for an older low car with low miles that a newer car with high miles. This is because insurance is priced only based on the year and model of the car, but the payoff, if you have a claim, would be based on the actual value of your vehicle.

For example, suppose a 2001 Ford Focus with 80,000 miles and a 2003 with 120,000 miles are each worth $4500, despite that you will pay more for collision coverage on the 2003.

fezo

I had the full beard for better than 20 years. Since the worst of the white was on the sides I went to a goatee. There's still too much white but my wife likes it so far be it from me to argue.

Yeah, I grew the beard years ago to look older. That is certainly no longer on my list of priorities.

Back to insurance...

michaellno

When my step children got close to driving age, I had that conversation with my insurance agent.

Without blinking, she said "Saturn sedan".

My stepson now drives a 2001 Saturn L300, while my stepdaughter drives a 2006 Saturn ION.

ckone0814

That a good suggestion, thanks.

When I call my agent, tell her a specific car, she checks something and says "whoa, a Ford Escort ZX2 is an H!" or..."a regular 4 door Escort is an A - that's good." I was wondering if that info is available.

msvedub

Hello. I bought a new car this summer and declined GAP insurance because I knew I could purchase it with my insurance carrier. I got a price from my agent, but didn't activate it yet (needed to pay $399 up front). In the meantime, I got in a car accident and now my car my be totalled. My agent told me I could add the GAP insurance on now and it still should be covered. I went ahead and paid for it, but it just doesn't sound right. How could I add GAP after an accident. Isn't that like buying life insurance after you found out you are about to die? I'm using that example because I don't know it's totalled, but I do know it may be.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

marsha7

suggest that you simply call your insurance agent and ask them for the 10 cars in the last 5 years that have low ins premiums...someone who has sold ins for a number of years will easily know them, whether saturn, Ford Escort, Chevy Malibu, etc...

From that list, you can narrow it down to the ones you would consider...but let your agent do the initial work...

Mr_Shiftright

There's no standardized list. Each company is different. When I checked on E-surance, the difference between a Scion xA and a supercharged MINI was very slight. Go figure?

ckone0814

My son is 20 and has compiled a fairly bad driving record. I had enough and just signed the car over to him and also got him his own ins policy with PA state minimums.

My daughter is 18.5 and has a much better record. She drives a "beater" car but since she's under a family policy obviously she pays for all of our cars. We are in a position where we could do the same with her - sign the car over and get her her own insurance.

Any recommendations? Is this worthwhile? Should young drivers go with minimums since they have no assets to go after? Is there anything I missing here with regards to kids "owning" the car and having their own policies?

Thanks.

ckone0814

Oh well. I have a pretty good idea what is safe and what's not but as someone said earlier, you never know. I would've never thought a two door late-90's Escort was so much higher than a 4 door. Guess it's cause it's a car that kids are likely to drive.

marsha7

You are right in one sense, there is no "universal list" of cars like that...but, if I am insured with Snake Farm, I will probably insure my son't car with the same ins...when you call your agent, they will know what are the best cars in Snake Farm's database...

Naturally, if you are also shopping ins companies, the 10 best list becomes a little more involved...

fezo

Yeah, I'm always surprised when I've shopped around at how different teh insurance companies are.

For being in New Jersey I'm lucky. There is this company, New Jersey Manufacturers that is a closed pool. You can only get in if you are a state employee or work for a company that is in the pool. Fortunately my wife's employer was in the pool. She's not with them anymore but once you are in you're in unless you do something really dumb to get bounced out. Being a closed pool where they can dump the real risks at will the rates are the best in the state. Added bonus - since the company is owned by the policy holders you get a dividend check and another one when they total up what they have on hand vs. what they are paying out and such. I've never seen anything quite like it.

cccompson

The only way GAP can be added now is through fraud.

I'd suggest you get a different agent. If he's willing to do this to his own company, what's he willing to do to you?

cccompson

That's what I did with my son. His driving record was not the best and he was killing my premium. Not sure what I'll do about my daughter who turns 18 this month and has a flawless driving record. Probably just call my agent and have him run the numbers both ways and go with whatever is cheaper.

fordfool

> My son is 20 and…My daughter is 18.5 and has a much better record. She drives a "beater" car but since she's under a family policy obviously she pays for all of our cars. We are in a position where we could do the same with her - sign the car over and get her own insurance.

> Any recommendations? Is this worthwhile? Should young drivers go with minimums since they have no assets to go after? Is there anything I missing here with regards to kids "owning" the car and having their own policies?

My annual premium would have doubled from $685 to $1351 when my daughter got her license. She bought a '95 Escort with minimum coverage paying for everything herself. I wanted to isolate my liability and exposure from hers.

She now has a late model Camry, five years accident-free record, and just received a premium rebate for turning 23. She also receives good student and defensive driving course discounts.

Unfortunately, she will no longer be covered by my medical insurance when she graduates, but that's another matter. Get a job with good benefits kiddo.

marsha7

"My annual premium would have doubled from $685 to $1351 when my daughter got her license"...

Please tell me why it was so difficult to ask your daughter to either use her allowance or get a job to pay you for the difference in premium, and I assume that she had to pay for gas somehow...we're talking $666 difference...if she wants to drive, she can pay you the extra $$$...

Why do people have such a hard time having their children pay for the extra insurance cost???

euphonium

When each of my kids turned 18, the car was in their name and they had their own individual Liability policy, however, not with minimum limits. To protect their future income from being attached as a result of a judgement in excess of their policy limits, they carried $300,000 Combined Single Limit of coverage.

fordfool

> Please tell me why it was so difficult to ask your daughter to either use her allowance or get a job to pay you for the difference in premium,

> Why do people have such a hard time having their children pay for the extra insurance cost???

Whoa, and give a lawyer my deep pockets and umbrella policy to aim for? No, thank you.

As a college student my daughter could afford her own car, gas, insurance, etc. (I paid for her college costs, room, and board.)

Because she was judgment proof with no assets, why on earth would she carry (more than the required minimum) insurance to protect non-existent assets? Certainly not to protect the "other guy" who can protect himself with UMV just as I do.

4wheels1

"Because she was judgment proof with no assets, why on earth would she carry (more than the required minimum) insurance to protect non-existent assets? Certainly not to protect the "other guy" who can protect himself with UMV just as I do."

What if the "other guy" is a pedestrian crossing the street legally and gets hit by your daughter. Don't you feel there is a moral obligation to pay for injuries caused, and not hide behind being "judgement proof"?

cccompson

Moral obligation for my daughter's actions? No, only my own.

The argument has been settled by the various states adopting minimum coverage requirements. If they are too low (and they are), they should be raised.

What's the ad? "Minimum coverage for minimum budgets."

jeffyscott

Moral obligation for my daughter's actions? No, only my own.

Hmm, how about your daughter's moral obligations for her actions? It was not my question, but I'll rephrase it to make it clearer:

What if the "other guy" is a pedestrian crossing the street legally and gets hit by your daughter. Don't you feel there is a moral obligation for your daughter to pay for injuries caused by her, and not hide behind being "judgement proof"?

cccompson

That's an altogether different question and the answer is yes. The problem I'm faced with is that she is 17 now but will turn 18 later this month. Should I cut her loose or not? Doing so frees me from liability but there's no way she can afford anything like the coverage she has now on my policy (1.5 million in liability coverage).

jeffyscott

I see, I did not see it as a different question. The original question did not specify who's obligation it was...my assumption would be it is the obligation of the driver.

I kept our coverage on my daughter while she was in college, but this was mainly because we never changed the title on her vehicle. It was not expensive though...about $500 per year for her 100/300/100 coverage. She was also still covered by our $1 mil umbrella.

My son was also covered by us until recently, again this was because of the title being in my name. That car was totaled and now he is on his own, with somewhat higher insurance costs.

I told him what the agent told me...he did not have to choose between just 25/50 and 100/300...that a lot of younger people, who go above the minimum, go with 50/100/50 coverage and with this coverage the other party will think "at least they are trying" as he put it. I also told my son that a lot of cars are worth more than $25,000 and, finally, if something awful happened it just did not seem right to say 'sorry I killed you, here's $25,000"...not that $50,000 is much better.

It did not cost much to bump up to 50/100/50

euphonium

a ruling can hand down a judgement in excess of policy limits enabling the future income to be attached until the judgement is satisfied?

What is the quality of the Credit Rating when that happens?

cccompson

Generally, though, it doesn't happen because when one is "judgment-proof" it's a rare lawyer that will spend the time (and front the money) to pursue the case.

Mr_Shiftright

If they ran me down in a crosswalk I'd make sure I got everything, even the plumbing pipes in their house. :mad:

fordfool

> a ruling can hand down a judgement in excess of policy limits enabling the future income to be attached until the judgement is satisfied?

That's what bankrupcy is for (unless intoxication or a crime was involved.) Auto accident claims are dischargeable. A judgment-proof person walks away.

link title

Mr_Shiftright

Well is mowing me down in a crosswalk a crime, technically speaking, do you think? I mean, if the person is ticketed for it?

marsha7

is deemed "judgment proof" is simply because they have no assets or worthwhile income to attach...hence, a 19 year old will have no assets other than his insurance limits...which, BTW, to sound like a broken record, is why I constantly harp on maintaining your own high limits of 100/300 on your U/M, and consider a separate umbrella policy of 1 million to raise the U/M limits...so, if there is a million dollar judgment against a 19 year old, say for serious injuries or wrongful death, you can still recover for compensation...

In a perfect world, 19 year olds would see the need for high limits, as one might consider it irresponsible to have minimum limits and drive in today's world...

But since the state only requires 25/50 as a legal minimum, it is wose to have the additional coverages so that YOU are covered for almost any mishap, regardless of what the other guy has...

For the folks who feel that it is unfair to make anyone purchase high limits, its only purpose is to cover YOU, whether you are at fault or innocent...

So, I recommend maximum base limits, usually 100/300, with a million dollar umbrella to cover YOU in the even of a million dollar judgmentm however rare they may be...then, carry maximum U/M, usually 100/300, making sure your umbrella includes that, or, in my case, a separate umbrella policy to raise U/M to a million...that is to cover ME in the event I lose an arm or a leg and he has lousy limits...
add to that rental insurance for $25 yearly, simply because even if it is his fault, his insurance may not immediately assume liability, and will not cover a rental until they do...medpay to pay for YOUR doctor bills as many health ins will no longer cover auto injuries or will subrogate if they do whereas medpay rarely subrogates...

I never discuss comprehensive and collision, since most know when they need it or not, and everybody knows what it is...I harp on the above because many seem not to know how important they are, especially if the other guy is uninsured, and we know how often THAT can happen, as more and more illegals are allowed to drive our highways, much to my chagrin...

So, everything I reco is solely to protect YOU in the event of a tragedy...simple fender benders may not require it, but you never know if you will be struck by a Mini cooper or a loaded concrete truck whose brakes just failed coming down a steep hill...

tidester

In a perfect world ...

... there would be no accidents and no need for any kind of insurance! :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

jeffyscott

I was about to say "huh" :confuse: then I realized by "wose" you meant "wise"...I'd thought "worse" was intended at first.

UIM coverage (at least according to my agent) can not exceed your own liablity limits, so in order to have 100/300 for UIM to protect youself from those with inadequate limits, you have to pay for the same level of protection for others.

fezo

Teah, "wose" caught me, too, but given my history of spelling (actually typing) errors I thought it wise (or wose) not to be the first one to mention it.....

Umbrella policy is a new one to me. Where do I get that? Car insurer? What's the idea? Protect you from any liability up to that million whether it be house, car, whatever?

At my age I'm ashamed to admit such ignorance but it beats continuing in it.

marsha7

for finding a typo...the word is "wise", as in ...it would be wise to have the additional coverages...

jeffy...correct...you must carry 100/300 for liability in order to have that much UM...my insurance uses separate umbrella policies, one for liability (home and auto) and one for U/M...

fezo...you get it from the insurer who insures your house and cars...

My mother, who just retired from NY, no longer owns a home...so, the ins company I use will only issue a liability umbrella for home and auto, so my agent had to locate a company who would issue a 1 mil umbrella policy only on an auto policy w/o the home...she found one...

marsha7

I like the way you think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...of course, if you disagreed with me, I would NOT like the way you think...........:):):):):)

Just a simple matter of self preservation.............................

mra367

I can not get a straight answer on recovering "diminished value" for my '05 Chevy Silverado extra cab pick-up. I am not the at fault party. I would appreciate reading your comments and help finding information. There is a lot of information on the net, yet most of it is selling an appraissal, and no specific way to handle this in California.

euphonium

I saved this site and it will be of help to you. Good Luck.

http://www.safecollisionrepairs.com:80/artman2/publish/diminished_value/diminish- ed_value_best_kept_secret.shtml

Mr_Shiftright

You'll need an appraisal to determine the actual DV. Since you were apparently hit by a third party, you CAN sue that 3rd party's insurance co. for DV as well, should they deny your claim for DV. If it were your own insurance company, you cannot sue them in California for DV. (swell hah?).

A good DV appraisal is not a number pulled out of a hat. The appraisal should take into account a) the type of damage b) the extent of damage c) the type of car d) who did the work e) how well the work was done.

dvexpert

Diminished value claims are legitimate in all 50 states in 3rd party cases such as yours. Third party is where your damages are the fault of anothers negligence. It is your obligation to prove the amount of your loss. To do this you will need to hire the services of a post-repair inspector. It must be someone who has actually viewed the car as opposed to an internet source who provides numbers without having seen the auto. The inspector you hire should be credentialed as an expert in auto valuations so that his testimony can be used in court if it becomes necessary. This doesn't mean you have to go to court to collect. But if you don't begin by building your case in a credible way, the other party will have no incentive to settle with you. It will cost you perhaps $300-$500 to get the inspection and this will generally be paid up front. Experts can't work on a percentage of your recovery because then they have incentive to inflate the amount of diminished value, which destroys their credibility. Depending on the amount of damage and the quality of the repair work, you could have thousands of dollars at stake.

There is a lot of information on diminished value at www.SafeCollisionRepairs.com including a diminished value slideshow you should check out. If you need an expert in CA, click the e-mail link in my name below and I'll be happy to recommend one. I actually posted the phone number to a diminished value expert in CA when I posted this message earlier and ran afoul of the internet police. Sorry Tidester -Guess I wasn't supposed to do that. :confuse:

David Williams

tidester

ran afoul of the internet police.

Low blow! We're just here to remind you of what you should have read in the Member Agreement but were probably too busy to do so before you agreed to it.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program …

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

beastykato

I'm about to purchase a used Mazda RX-8 with 24,000mi on it and have been shopping around for insurance and am suprised by the amount they are asking me to pay.

I'm being quoted at a little over $1000 every 6 months, I'm 20 yrs old, and have a violation for a rolling stop through a stop sign (what a joke). Anyway, is this a good rate or am I being ripped off? I figured after 3-4 years of driving with no accidents plus owning a streetbike for a year, which I have had no violations or accidents with as well, that I would start to catch a break here.

I'm not sure what else I can do here. I have very good credit with over 3 credit cards with $10,000+ limits and pay my cards in full every month and have never had a late payment and paid off my 2 year bike loan in 6 months. I have a high GPA in college and completed the drivers course in high school like everyone has I'm sure. I try to play off all these points to the reps when I call for a quote and they seem to think it's great but still I'm paying over 2 grand a year with $1,000 dollar deductibles.

Help lol =(

cccompson

The only way to know is shop for rate quotes from several different carriers.

Without knowing how much coverage you're talking about, given that you're 20 (especially if you're male), two grand a year for a sports car doesn' strike me as all that high.

kiawah

Different cities have an impact on prices, but you don't indicate where you are. How much of the insurance is for collision vs. liability

grandma22

Hi,
I feel for you but you don't get a break until you turn 25 . Then your rates start going down.
Now you can go under your parents insurance and pay them. I am sure they could get a better rate for you.
Good Luck
You sound like a very responsible person to me.