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Well, I would hope that's the case everywhere. In any case, every registered vehicle here in NJ is also required to carry insurance ... but it doesn't mean it does. Just like everyone is required to obey the speed limit.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If you are using your insurance coverage, you have more contractual rights with them. You may have more legal recourse with the at fault party. If you choose to use your insurance company, they have rights of subrogation against the other party to collect what they paid you for repairs, and they should collect your deductible. You can not sue or take the other party to court for your DV and harm your insurer's rights of subrogation, they have no responsibility to you to collect your DV when they collect the reimbursement from the at fault party's insurer. You may want to consult a DV attorney in your area to attach your additional losses to your insurer's subrogation. My advice is given to you based on my experience as I am not an attorney but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
In most states you can only sue the at fault party once for the same negligence. So you may not be able to collect your DV after your insurer instigates a subrogation suit if you file your suit later.
You could hire an attorney to work on contingency on the DV and he would negotiate your property loss with your insurer and DV loss with the at fault party insurer through what is known as multiple source recovery. With an attorney representing your collision loss with your own company, you may be spared the use of inferior parts made in taiwan to repair your vehicle and get repairs that some shops are afraid to charge the insurance company for certain procedures for fear of being removed from their direct repair programs. This should only be done with an attorney. The one I work with only takes contingency on the DV claim and you recieve full compensation for your collision repair. He may have co counsel in your state.
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please clarify something if you can. When you are struck by another party at fault, what's the difference between going through your insurance company (making a claim) or skipping that and just filing a claim with the other side?
What are the advantages and disadvantages in your opinion?
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How does suing for DV harm my carriers rights of subrogation when my carrier can not subrogate for DV?
Where in the contract of insurance with my company does it say I can NOT sue the at fault party for DV?
The man wants to pay my girlfriend cash to fix it, but my girlfriend wants to file a police report in case there needs to be an insurance claim. This is where the problems start. The man has a valid Pennsylvania driver's license, but his wife, who recently emigrated to the U.S. from Brazil does not. His insurance company is Titan, which I understand is a branch of Nationwide Insurance that handles high-risk drivers.
I take my girlfriend's car to a local body shop with whom I've done business in the past. I get an estimate for $1,256. I get two original copies, one for myself and one for the man whose wife hit her car. I was to return to the body shop this coming Saturday to have his insurance company's assesor look at my girlfriend's car. They were to cut a check then and there from what I've been told.
This is where it starts to get ugly. Titan Insurance called my gf at work and told her they're not going to pay the claim as the man's wife was driving without a license. They said something about her being "an unauthorized driver." Needless to say, gf was furious and had an emotional outburst that would've turned Tony Soprano into a quivering nervous wreck. I'm hoping the man got the news the claim was denied and will do the right thing and pay her. Girlfriend insists on cash in full. I'm going to call the man tonight after work. This man and his wife are my neighbors and I don't want any bad blood between us over a little fender bender. I am worried about what will happen if the man fails to pay as my girlfriend tends to be a female version of Joe Pesci when she is provoked. I explored several options, none of which are very savory:
1. Pay for the damage myself and eat the costs.
2. Go through my girlfriend's insurance, yet have to pay a $500 deductible and risk having her premiums go up or even dropped as gf's a pretty lousy driver herself.
3. Go through small claims court and risk making enemies out of my neighbors.
4. Do nothing and leave a nice two year-old car look like a beat-up wreck.
Can anybody suggest a better course of action?
In the end, this person SHOULD NOT have been driving, so, personally, I'd do whatever it takes to punish them. But that's me.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, that should be between the insured and Titan... Titan should pay since they insured the vehicle and if they feel their insured is in the wrong, do whatever they want to recover from him.
This is just my opinion since I don't know what legally will happen in your jurisdiction.
If the couple will pay and satisfy your gf, fine. If not, then it may get even uglier...she might have to turn the claim over to her insurance...she would probably get the damage fixed, perhaps less her deductible. Then her insurance would try and recover from the couple and if successful, might be able to recover her deductible as well. If the latter course of action happens, then I don't know if your neighbors will continue to be 'friendly'. Also, the uninsured driver may have more legal trouble with the state DMV if they find out. Some states will require proof of Insurance and without that things can get even worse for the couple.
That said, I hope they can handle without things getting ugly.
Really, I did not want to get the man or his wife in that much trouble, but gf insisted on filing a police report which really is the right thing to do in such a situation in case an insurance claim needs to be filed.
As it stands right now, my neighbors could have trouble in traffic court and the insurance company won't pay the claim, so everybody loses. It already is ugly and I don't want it to get worse. Yes, the man was irresponsible for letting his wife drive unlicensed, but it's one hell of a penalty for such a lapse in judgement.
They won't be able to bluff your insurance company..
If you want to give this guy a couple of days to contact his company, or pay the bill himself, then go ahead... but, the high-risk, minimum coverage companies will do anything they can to not pay off... If you file with your company, you will only be out your deductible, and if they collect from Titan, you'll get that back.
Now, the other thing... does this bother anyone else?
"my girlfriend tends to be a female version of Joe Pesci"
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"my girlfriend tends to be a female version of Joe Pesci"
Yeah, I'm thinking looks (short and balding), while I am absolutely sure he's referring to the temperment of some of the characters Mr. Pesci has portrayed on screen (the film "Casino" comes to mind).
:P It's Friday! Hope we're all light hearted this afternoon!
The unlicensed driver was not specifically excluded on the policy with Titan and they know it. Titan is on it. Get back to Titan and tell them to pay or you will sue them for "Failure to Settle in Good Faith".
What they quoted GF over the 'phone is not within their policy provisions. Sic em! :mad: :mad: :mad:
She was driving the car with the owner of the car in the passenger seat. Therefore, she had de facto permission and, thereby, authorization to drive the car unless he can show he was kidnapped or otherwise under extreme duress.
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I don't see the beef. If it was me I would just want my repair payed for with no hassle. Sounds like your girl friend is going to create allot of unneeded drama for you, her, and your neighbor.
If he wants to pony up the cash, just take the money, fix the car and be done with it.
If he is afraid of an insurance claim, the report is only to document that the accident occurred (keeps 'em honest) and will usually assign fault...after all, if it didn't assign fault (more often than not) he wouldn't be afraid of the report...
So, if he ponies up the cash to fix your car and pay for your injuries (if any), then the report is filed away...but if you get any hassle about paying for ANYTHING, call his insurance and tell him he blew his chance...
The other thing he may fear is being issued a ticket for the wreck, which may cause him to lose his license if he has too many points...my answer is...TOO BAD...you should not run the risk of losing your right to file with his insurance (or yours, either...the report will show YOUR insurance that you were not at fault, so your rates will not go up if you make a collision claim)...any courtesy you offer him will certainly backfire on you if he is even 2% dishonest or belligerent...
Remember marsha's law...NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED
Should I ask for anything over and above the cost of the repairs themselves to offset the diminished value of this car following the accident?
Are there criminal implications since they used the car for unauthorized purposes and caused damage? I am located in Kentucky if that makes a difference.
The paint work and repairs would cause diminished value in a Corvette to future buyers.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I was first called by the police to let me know that my car was involved in the accident and that they were completing a hit and run report on the accident.
So this has been document formally.
Oh, and if THEY were injured in the wreck, be sure they are classified as nonpermissive users, so that they canot make a claim on your PIP/medpay for their injuries...they were authorized to drive it out of the garage and onto the parking lot, but not go for a joyride...
You have definitely suffered diminished value, probably 10%-30% of the retail value of your car. It depends a lot on mileage, condition, previous repair work to your car (if you suffered a previous major collision, just forget about a DV claim this time around), etc.
There were no injuries although the owner of the fence they hit is looking to have his fence repaired and the police did take my insurance info from the ins card I keep in the car.
I forgot to mention that on top of it all, they installed the WRONG radio!
The car just hit 30k miles, never in an accident, excellent condition. I'll used Edmunds to calc a retail value and use the 10-30% range to judge a DV.
Anything else I should know?
So, I thought if a wreck was paid by one cash instead of insurance money, I thought it would never be placed on Carfax...hence, carfax would be fairly reliable, but not infallible, simply because few folks actually will pay for major repairs with cash and use insurance instead...
Is my theory wrong???
Every time I hear something like this, I get a queasy feeling...
Maybe you want to handle this differently... but, as soon as I found out what happened, I would have sworn out a criminal complaint, then called my insurance company... Businesses that don't want to use insurance, especially on a $5K+ claim, just might not have insurance..
So, your car is in the body shop for 4-6 weeks.... and at the end of that time, maybe they won't pay, or they forgot the details of the agreement. Then what? Call your insurance company about your car being stolen by stereo installers, who fled the scene? And, oh, by the way, that was two months ago... :surprise:
Don't cut these guys any slack... they wrecked your Corvette!
Just my $0.02
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I have said before that most ins policies have either a 30 or 60 day time frame in order to report an accident for coverage...as long as everything goes well, he has some time...if not, have his insuarcne fix it under collision and then let ins sue the company...
Just a thought...I am anticipating (cautiously) cooperation from the company, since they have done some serious wrong...
OTOH, if they go bankrupt, he could be left holding the bag...
If the damage estimate is obtained, for protection have the company cut an immediate check to pay for repairs, plus DV...if they do it, you have enough time for the check to clear (or bounce)...
If they refuse, or the check bounces, then call your collision immediately and take it from there...that may be a reasonable solution, giving the company time to make good on the claim, yet protect yourself with a claim to your own ins within the alloted time frame your policy requires...
Just a random thought from a random guy...
If part of a franchise - you have additional source of recovery.
If a one shop op - how long have they been in business & what is their reputation?
But you are correct, CARFAX is NOT 100% reliable by any means.
I have come across any number of cars with serious prior damage that have a clean CARFAX report. Why this happens I haven't a clue but since I knew the cars intimately I knew they were damaged. One Miata had been hit three times, totalling $18,000 in damages, and it has a clean CARFAX report. Another BMW had been crushed in the side by a runaway truck and that has a clean CARFAX as well.
Go figure.
You need to look at your policy which is a contract. Under the payment of loss provisions or what they will pay for in the event of a loss , it will state the amount that they will pay based on their investigation of the claim or whether they are taking one of several options which they get to choose. If you aren't covered for rental expenses, for example, you can not expect your insurer to collect for that loss either as they can contractually only collect the amount of loss they paid and your deductible.
Under a typical policy one states:
Subrogation
If WE pay any PERSON under this policy, WE will be subrogated to all rights to recovery, based on the same DAMAGES that the PERSON receiving the payment may have against any other PERSON liable for those DAMAGES. This provision does not apply to payments under Parts ll and Parts lll.
Any INSURED or other PERSON who receives payment under this policy, agrees to sign and deliver legal instruments to US, and do whatever else necessary to secure OUR rights.
Any INSURED, or other PERSON who receives payment under this policy, agrees to cooperate with US in enforcing our rights and do nothing (you can't sue them before we have first crack at them) to prejudice our rights.
The only advantage of going through the other party's insurer is that you most likely will be compensated for a rental, usually a super sub compact unless you stress you are entitled to be driving a vehicle similar to what you are currently driving (for example an suv escalade). Good luck on that one unless you are being represented by an attorney or they think you have the funds to hire an attorney. Insurers whether they will admit it or not, profile you as someone that they can push over or one that may be confrontational.
Remember the other party's insurer does not owe you until you legally prove your loss. They are only trying to settle your loss on their terms to avoid litigation as it is their duty to their insured not you. He who holds the gold has the power. Most high level Insurance adjusters are highly trained negotiaters with business degrees.
Unless you know your legal rights you may be no match for them. They are trained to settle with you on the amount they feel is fair. It is their job to pay as little on a claim as possible to keep their company profitable. They are most times paid with bonuses on how little it takes for them to settle a claim known as severity.
Even though they do not have the contractual right or authority to tell you how to repair your car and with what kind of parts, most people fall in line with their presumed authority. If you want to use their money to fix your car, most likely you are going to be limited to their terms of settlement unless they fear you know more than you do. Their insured is legally liable to pay whatever is necessary to put you in pre loss condition and their insurance company promised them that they will do just that. So if you feel they did not pay an amount necessary, you may still be able to sue in small claims for the difference you may have out of pocket or your DV.
The advantages of using your own policy is that the contract requires your insurer to place you in a position as good as you held prior to the loss, commonly refered to as pre-loss condition. If they fail to pay an amount to put you in that position they may have failed to live up to the terms of the policy. Perhaps if they are abhorent at settling your loss they might be found in breach of contract. Anytime your insurer refuses to pay for a procedure or certain repair, you need to ask them to show you in your policy where it specifically refers to their reasoning.
Most states have unfair claims practices acts in the statutes or codes of regulations for insurance departments. They really do not like you to know these exist in my experience. One of those statutes in my state for example says that a policy holder can not be canceled for any negligence that is not their own. This means claims for hail damage, vandalism, damage due to the other guy that didn't have coverage, or for those claims you are afraid to submit when you were not occupying your vehicle in the parking lot, can not be used to cancel your coverage. an insurer always has the right to non renew you at renewal time. So why wouldn't it pay for you to be assertive in your contractual rights regarding how your property is to be repaired, after all they have promised to place you in a position you had prior to t
The only advantage of going through the other party's insurer is that you most likely will be compensated for a rental, usually a super sub compact unless you stress you are entitled to be driving a vehicle similar to what you are currently driving (for example an suv escalade). Good luck on that one unless you are being represented by an attorney or they think you have the funds to hire an attorney. Insurers whether they will admit it or not, profile you as someone that they can push over or one that may be confrontational.
Remember the other party's insurer does not owe you until you legally prove your loss. They are only trying to settle your loss on their terms to avoid litigation as it is their duty to their insured not you. He who holds the gold has the power. Most high level Insurance adjusters are highly trained negotiaters with business degrees.
Unless you know your legal rights you may be no match for them. They are trained to settle with you on the amount they feel is fair. It is their job to pay as little on a claim as possible to keep their company profitable. They are most times paid with bonuses on how little it takes for them to settle a claim known as severity.
Even though they do not have the contractual right or authority to tell you how to repair your car and with what kind of parts, most people fall in line with their presumed authority. If you want to use their money to fix your car, most likely you are going to be limited to their terms of settlement unless they fear you know more than you do. Their insured is legally liable to pay whatever is necessary to put you in pre loss condition and their insurance company promised them that they will do just that. So if you feel they did not pay an amount necessary, you may still be able to sue in small claims for the difference you may have out of pocket or your DV.
The advantages of using your own policy is that the contract requires your insurer to place you in a position as good as you held prior to the loss, commonly refered to as pre-loss condition. If they fail to pay an amount to put you in that position they may have failed to live up to the terms of the policy. Perhaps if they are abhorent at settling your loss they might be found in breach of contract. Anytime your insurer refuses to pay for a procedure or certain repair, you need to ask them to show you in your policy where it specifically refers to their reasoning.
Most states have unfair claims practices acts in the statutes or codes of regulations for insurance departments. They really do not like you to know these exist in my experience. One of those statutes in my state for example says that a policy holder can not be canceled for any negligence that is not their own. This means claims for hail damage, vandalism, damage due to the other guy that didn't have coverage, or for those claims you are afraid to submit when you were not occupying your vehicle in the parking lot, can not be used to cancel your coverage. an insurer always has the right to non renew you at renewal time. So why wouldn't it pay for you to be assertive in your contractual rights regarding how your property is to be repaired, after all they have promised to place you in a position you had prior to t