i'd like to not ever follow up - how easy that would make my job! - but sometimes an email may get lost in the shuffle - and they may have not gotten my original reply - so i do have to follow up at some point. i am not obtrusive about it, but it would save both the customer and myself time if they would let me know where they stood instead of just ignoring me.
look at the autofair.com site. it's a dealer group in NH.
Note, I never bought from them, and am not recommending them at all. It is just a site that to me works really well.
Also, they are a no-haggle operation, if that makes a difference, but it's nice to have the prices right out in front. You can decide on line if you are happy with the deal before you make any contact.
I hate when they ask about my payoff before they price my trade. I feel like they're gonna base the price on what I owe, not what the car is actually worth. If my payoff is low - low trade value.
I'm a woman and I usually drive manuals. You would not believe how many salesman have asked me "You did notice this car had a clutch?" My response is usually "Yes, I noticed and the one I'm leaving in NOW has a clutch too!" Please don't treat me differently because of my gender - no salesman would ever say that to a man.
I HATE and ABHOR when a salesman says "Better hurry, got someone else looking at that one!" I politely informed the last one that tried this one that I had decided to do the decent thing and let the other people have it and I'd find another one. I'm not stupid! I know until I sign on the line that the car is available to anyone willing to pay the price. Yes, I have lost cars to other buyers. I've never shopped for a car that they only made a handful - there are others out there!!
And, REALLY, HONESTLY, when I tell you "I'm just looking" I truly mean that. If you have the courtesy to introduce yourself, hand me your card and leave me alone, I will look you up when I become interested in a car.
thenebean - kudos for your "do unto others" personal policy!!
Your payoff has nothing to do with your car's value. In my case, I try to ask this question in a discreet manner. It is important and we ned to know. Your appraisal will be th same.
I don't treat women any differently than men. I may mention sticks aren't very popular and it may be a lot more difficult to sell later down the road.
I don't tell people there are other people interested in a used car unless I happen to know there is. I can't tell you how often I've had customers leave, go shop for the rest of the weekend only to return and be VERY disappointed the car they really wanted was sold to someone else. I even had a woman once tell me.." You should have been pushier!"...Sorry, that's not my style.
And, if you tell me you are "just looking", I'll ask what you are looking for, point you in the right direction, hand you my card and tell you to come find me if you have any questions.
Don't be in a big hurry. If you " have to be somewhere" in a half hour, let me know so we can schedule a better time for you.
Be friendly. I'm not a bad person. You just may end up really liking me.
Tell the truth. If you have a trade in, don't be coy and try to hide that from me. I'll know anyway.
If you possibly can, leave your small children at home. A car dealership isn't a playground or a fun place for them. Same applies to dogs.
Don't ask to test drive cars you have no abilty or intension to buy.
Give me a chance to respond...if I have spent a lot of time with you and someone else gives you a lower price, share that with me. I'll always be able to meet or beat it. If you get lowballed or lied to somewhere else, WALK OUT and come see me. I won't say " I told you so"!
agreed. its sad some people almost feel ashamed if they get dragged in by a low ball number, and they dont come back to see me! i'm not here to laugh at you - but i know the tactics some other less than forward dealers use.
lhess, i am a woman, and i treat men AND women with respect when they come in! i know that i have heard women say they hate it when they are looking for a car with their husband/boyfriend that the salesperson only talks to the man. not in my case. i remember when i went to look for my car (before i worked as a salesperson) i knew more than the salesman on the sentra spec-V. i think it kinda blew his mind a little - nevermind the fact its a 6sp. manual!
i like cars, i know other women like cars, and i know some men know nothing about cars! i try to be helpful, informative, and non-pressuring!
i only let people know "hurry someone is looking at your car" if a) i know this person is really interested in the car and someone else is really looking at it, and b) if its true.
i've had people, same as isell, get upset because i didnt get back to them about a car that did end up selling. i certainly won't use it as a ploy to get people to buy, but i can understand how others will.
isell, i agree with all your points above as well. don't bring the whole brood with you- screaming kids running around a showroom with $30k cars isnt pleasant, and we get a little nervous that there may be damage done. also, don't stop in if you have 10 minutes, then want me to rush to do my job - not fair, first to you - and to me as well. i want to make sure i've gotten all the information i need to give you what you need.
i also get irked by people who come in at 7:45 when we close at 8, and want to test drive 3 different cars. to them i hand a business card and ask them to come back when we are open, and have time - i wouldn't expect a restaurant to stay open if i showed up to eat at 8:50 and they closed at 9!
A tip for you that I learned a long time ago. If I'm getting off at 9:00, I'll always fudge by an hour. I'll tell the customer I'll be aroud to "around 8:00". I've learned the hard way if I say I'm off at a certain time, they will almost always show up ten minutes before then.
I've reduced my number of late nighters greatly this way. Besides, I'm a "morning person" and my energy is pretty well shot by 8:00 or 9:00.
Nope, it's still self-serve. Just look at the stock list, and it shows an "upfront lowest price". CLick on the unit, and it shows MSRP and their price, and also lists all the options and extras.
The only difference I am aware of is for Honda. For some reason, you have to put in an Email address so it will show the upfront price. They don't send you an email (the address doesn't even have to be valid), but it is supposedly soemthing that Honda requries them to do.
Yeah. I almost qualified my post... I've only used them to look at Hondas lately.. Good to hear the rest of them are the same.. I never tried putting in my e-mail address.. Once it got to that point, I just quit. (another tip for internet sellers)
I can figure the math myself to see if we're in my ballpark or not. I usually know the amount I can and will finance, have a good idea on interest rates, and know how long I willing to finance. Before we start on the paperwork, there's no reason for the salesperson to know about my payoff.
I will agree that shoppers can be annoying as well. I sell antiques and there's a lot of similarities to car sales - haggling, wasting your time, what's my granny's thingamadoo worth?, they can't figure simple discounts in their heads...they think PROFIT is the big, bad wolf...and, yes, they show up right as your locking the door thinking there is nothing else you have to do that evening (we're not real people - we don't have families, pets, lawns to mow, errands to run and laundry)..and on, and on. I think shoppers have a right to respect the "do unto others" as well.
I just had a mazda salesman who restored my faith in the car-buying process. He was wonderful and I've sent some fellow 8 admirers his way. isellhondas and thenebean...high pressure sales and tricks of the trade may get you one sale, but it's not likely to get you a REPEAT sale. I commend your efforts.
i try to do that as well - im talking about scragglers (not appointments) who just walk on the lot last minute. quite frustrating if you ask me! sometimes they seem offended if we arent willing to take them out even though its closing time.
lhess, you see the same kinda stuff selling antiques - and you are right! buyers need to follow the golden rule just like salespeople - it's amazing, such a simple lesson we learn in kindergarten that we cant remember as adults!
and thank you for the kind compliments - trying to make this difficult doesnt help myself or the consumer! no pressure, honesty and integrity = happy customers :-)
The payoff does not play a role in the cars value....but as we all know the huge majority of buyers are payment buyers. We can't produce a payment without knowing the payoff.
There is another reason for asking the payoff questions....it relates to credit. If mr customer is financing thru a blood bank it's a clue that the customer may not qualify for the best tier rates...so it would be misleading to quote the customer payments based on a rate he/she won't qualify for. I'm sure there are dealers who have less than desirable motives in asking the payoff questions but most just want to know so the process moves along easier.
I completely understand what you're saying. I usually just like to get all the numbers and come home to the old pc and crunch my own numbers, check interest rates...I do realize that some folks want to be handed the paperwork with the bottomline on it. Different strokes for different folks!! I have no problem telling WHERE my loan is or even my interest rate, but I keep my payoff out of it until I have to disclose (just one of my many quirks). Plus, I'm usually (of course, not always) in pretty good shape on my trade - I do have good credit, so good rates, I pay on time, and I watch both my payoff and the value closely. I guess I feel like I have to protect that!!
what is normally a man's job. The first new car I bought with my hubby (I was married then - THE DARK YEARS) was from a woman. She said the sales manager told her to her face that he only hired her because he had to (being a minority in the business) and he figured the pressure would take care of her for him. The car we wanted to drive had a dead battery and she had no idea how to jump it. You guessed it, the men at the lot wouldn't help her!! Now, I'm an independent lady and I wouldn't expect someone to do this for me every time, but she did deserve the chance to learn. My husband got the portable battery hicky and showed her how to use it (yes, he had some good points).
Our trade was a manual and she couldn't drive it (we debated on helping her with this too) and the sales manager wouldn't give us a quote because his salesperson couldn't report properly on the car. It was an old car, paid for, so we just decided to sell it ourselves and bought the car from her. The men in that place were furious. I saw her outside of the dealership a few months later and she told me that she had been "laid off." The last month she was there she was top salesperson!! I congratulated her on one-upping the "old boys club" even if she did lose her job!!
PS She was beautiful and dressed to sell if you know what I mean (thinking back, that's probably why my husband was so nice to her !!). I really admired her spunk!!
it's a tough job because women arent supposed to know about cars. i've had a couple of guys come in and when i introduced myself as a salesperson (now internet sales manager) they'd ask for a man instead - "they know a bit more about what i'm looking for" with those guys, i just appease them - trying to fight their judgments will only lose the dealership a sale. but the people i work with here are great - no issues that i am a woman. there was a time when there were 4 female salespeople here! (im the only one left now, but they left on their own accord) and the owner is a woman as well.
besides, i show all the men up here when it comes to product knowledge anyways - haven't lost a quiz yet! ;-)
Can I add to your list? I agree to leave the kids at home, but please bring their car seats, strollers, diaper bags etc... It is important to know if they all fit. Leave the dog at home is the best advice I've heard. I would have never believed how many people seem to think that we have a kennel here until I started working. Although I did have one lady trade a car that I had sold her within a few weeks because her dog didn't like it. I'm not sure how she knew, but it makes for a great story.
Why anyone would drag a dog into a place of business but it happens all of the time. Once, when I wouldn't let a lady drag her smelly Basset Hound in a new car on a demo drive, she got mad and complained.
if you're using the Bobst method. If you just go in and make an offer and then either buy the car or walk out, kids shouldn't be too much bother. Now if you're planning to negotiate back and forth for a few hours, then it'd be a different story.
PLEASE leave the kids at home or make them behave. An antique store is full of stuff that kids should not be allowed to touch or play with ( I say "should" because most parents don't feel that way) and they get bored. I agree with the dogs, but would rather have them than mean kids!
isn't it amazing how many people will let their kids wreak havoc around or in things that cost a whole lot of money? you'd be surprised how many parents will put their kids in the 350Z roadster we've got on the show room floor (feet on the seats) and let them jump around, pull on the stalks on the steering wheel, and push all the buttons - with grimy fingers! what happened to parenting?! its amazing the lack of respect some people have for things that are not theirs. then i get people who tell me "well i dont want one from your show room or one thats been test driven" of course, after they've had their kids running around like madmen and test driving the car really hard.
A buyer can be at home negotiating with a car dealer with the kids screaming, dogs barking, fish jumping, and termites gnawing. That's one more reason for you sales people to like the internet.
“then i get people who tell me "well i dont want one from your show room or one thats been test driven" of course, after they've had their kids running around like madmen and test driving the car really hard.”
Yes, as a consumer I want a fresh car that hasn’t been abused by somebody else. At same time when I test drive a car I want to drive it really hard to see what the car can do and see if I will be satisfied with its performance. The solution to this catch 22 is to have demos for test drives. However, most of the time when I go to a dealer and ask for a demo for a test drive, the salesperson insists on finding a car on the lot in my color preference and options I want and pulls a fresh car off the lot for a test drive. I don’t care what color the test drive car is as long as it performs just like the car I am planning to purchase, but the dealer insists on pulling a fresh car out so that I could get emotionally attached to the car and make an implosive purchase.
Well, Isell, unless our friend is a pimply-faced teenager, I assume he has bought cars previously. Therefore, he was a serious car buyer at one time, and I bet he will be again.
Isell, you are wrong. When I purchase a performance car, I need to make sure it performs. It’s no different than buying a suit, you try it on and look at yourself in a mirror to make sure it fits you well. I don’t drive at 90 mph nor do I take corners at 50, but I floor it a few times at different speeds to make sure the car has good acceleration and no torque steer. Yes, flooring a new engine is abuse, and I don’t want to buy a new car that was abused. That is why I want to test drive a demo, so that nobody else gets stuck with the car that I abused. You have no idea how many times I heard other people say: “I would never buy the car that I’ve test driven”.
In the past 20 years I must have test driven around 50 cars, only twice I was told to knock it off (needless to say, those salespeople didn’t get my business). Most salespeople just smile when I floor it, and some even give me pointers on how to get most out of the car. Only once I could tell that the salesperson was genuinely scared during my test drive.
Yes, bobst, I have purchased 9 new cars in my lifetime.
You said you wanted to "see what a car can do". Well, a lowly Accord is capable of 130 MPH. That's what it "can do". If I have a shopper wanting to test this they can do it AFTER they have bought the car.
I don't know you or your driving abilities. I'm a captive passenger and I refuse to feel endangered during a demo drive. I'm too old for that and if I lose your business, that's fine too. My demo drives consist of a "loop". There is a nice hill that I encourage by customers to jump on the gas on.
If they tailgate on the freeway or do something stupid, I will definatly tell them to knock it off.
If you've been asked twice to "knock it off" you are probably driving too fast or in an abusive manner. I think in ten years I've told maybe four or five people to slow down.
Years ago, when we had an Acura store, a young guy decided to test the limits of an Integra during a demo drive. the Integra hit a pole and the driver was killed. Thes salesperson was seriously injured.
reposting this in here cause nobody answered the first one..
What SHOULD be said in an email to a dealer to show serious interest and to be taken seriously?
I already know what kind of used car I want and what options I need such as an automatic. I don't really care whether it's a 2 door or 4 door. I do have a few select options that I would like but they could wait, like a keyless entry. I do have a dealership in mind that I'd like to buy from. They do internet shopping and I've heard some good reviews on their internet shopping and regular lot shopping. I already know they don't have anything I am interested in at the moment. I do not have a car right now, I have someone that can take me up there like once every 1-2 weeks since it is kind of far, so email is much easier for me.
My price limit is $14,000. I'd like the monthly payments to be as low as possible.
I really do NOT want them to call me.I don't even have a cellphone so there is no convienent time for them to call me.. If they answered my email with enough information then I wouldn't mind calling them. But I rather not send a detailed email just to get told to call them.
So how should an email be written to get the best response? Do just I tell them what exact car and options I need and make it clear I am definatley interested in buying from them..? Do I tell them my price limit and/or montly payment limit? What is too low to request for monthly payments? Or will that be an instant turn off? If it was up to me, my payments would be like $200 a month but I'm sure that is way too low. One guy did ask me once to tell him what I'd need my monthly payments to be and they could work with that, but I'm afraid of saying something too low and that being a complete turn off.
Maybe you are thinking too much, noob. I sent a few Emails in March asking dealers if they had a specific type of vehicle and what their out-the-door price was. They responded very quickly.
Of course, we live in the very competitive Northern Virginia area where the dealers are drooling over our dollars. In other areas, the dealers might not be so anxious to answer your Emails.
In another thread everyone was saying that a lot of dealers don't take emails seriously because they get so many crap ones. I actually did email a couple of delaers about a month ago and never heard back. I had one guy reply, but wouldn't specifically answer anything, just asked me to call him. So I wanted to do it right this time. :confuse:
to get my attention, you send an email saying you are looking for a specific vehicle - give us your contact information, and any relevant information you can, so we can go to work for you. if you say "im looking for an xyzmobile and want to pay $14000" and just give us an email - it is likely you will have your email deleted. however if you word it like this" dear so and so, my name is joe schmoe and i am in the market for a 2000 xyzmobile zoomster. i am looking for automatic transmission, power windows, locks, cd player and lower miles (under 50k) i am not too particular in color, but would prefer silver or lighter colors. please let me know if you have any in stock, or any incoming. i am looking to pay between $13-$14k. please contact me via email, as i am not available often by phone. I look forward to hearing from you"
something like that WOULD get my attention. detailed is good - it shows you are taking the time to specify what you are looking for because you are genuinely interested. again, more information the better. if you do not have a phone number to provide them with, indicate you are tough to reach by phone - and are more accessible via email. hopefully that helps - let us know how it goes!
I like thenebean's example (except I would rather not put my target price in the email.)
Question to the many internet managers that frequent this thread :P: does an email send through Edmunds' "Contact a dealer" pop-up form have a lower chance of getting deleted, vs. an email normally originated? For the reference, 2+ years ago when I used Edmunds dealer email form, I got 3 responses out of 5 dealers within a day. Things may be different now...
to be honest, i don't care where a lead comes from - a lead is a lead. if people are very interested in a car, you can tell - they tell you everything you need to know, and give you plenty of ways to contact them. and when you reply, they get back to you. regardless of whether you send a lead through edmunds, a personal dealer site, a factory site, cars.com, etc, if you provide enough information and make it clear that you are interested, here's how to reach me - you'll get the attention of any internet manager.
like my example, if you say "interested in an F150, send me your best price" you'll get deleted. how about equipment? trim level, 4x2 or 4x4? things like that.
as to target prices in the email, i can understand not wanting to put them in, but you can get a wide range of prices on used cars (depending on equipment, condition, miles) and it helps us find you a car that meets ALL your needs. notice i put $13-$14k, meaning i am not looking to JUST spend $14k. if you want, put a target price a little lower than you want to spend, and maybe you'll get a better deal that way!
i guess its up to you if you want to give a price, but if i need to emphasize anything about sending an email lead to a dealer, its be specific, be reachable, and give your real name/email and or phone number
I can figure the math myself to see if we're in my ballpark or not. I usually know the amount I can and will finance, have a good idea on interest rates, and know how long I willing to finance. Before we start on the paperwork, there's no reason for the salesperson to know about my payoff. "
Exactly. There's no need for them to know your payoff amount until final calculation of the financing.
well, sometimes if we only need to stretch a little more to meet a payoff, we may do so to make the deal. if we dont know that, we dont know to make the stretch for you. we've given people over their payoffs many times, it doesn't make us say "oh well they owe $5000 on the car, so we'll just show $5000, even if the car is worth $8000"
the more information we have to work with, the easier it is to give you complete and accurate numbers (especially if we're working towards a payment)
if you owe $15000 on a vehicle worth $9000, it may make a difference on whether we can even work a deal out for you or not.
i guess to each his own, but i don't see that keeping the payoff amount out of it gives you any sort of advantage...
I don't work towards making any specific payment amount. The only amouts initially needed by the deslership for me are usually the new (or new to me) car's price and the trade's (if there is one) price.
I usually get financing rate and term from USAA ahead of time and then I always call them on the day of purchase to get try and get an additional 1% or so lower rate (works EVERY time). But then like lhess and bobst, I know where I stand on my current car(s) and have NEVER been "upside down" come trade time on any car.
And I won't disclose any details of prearranged financing to the F&I dept either. I will tell them that I have such financing arranged, and depending on their past performance will or will NOT let them try to best my pre-arranged rate, but but every time I have let them try to best my already prearranged rate, they come in higher and then when I tell them, the rate "magically" comes down. At which time I call USAA and they beat the "magically" adjusted rate by 1/4 to 1/2% or more, so i figure, why bother. The same shennagins have been played to me with trade values before, so I won't let the info out any more. I prefer to keep certain information to myself.
Yes the payoff is needed, but that's a 10 min conf call with the bank and F&I after sale price and trade allowance are already figured.
sounds like you got a great plan that works for you! far be it from me to say whether its right or wrong. some people do actually shop based on payment. since that is what they can afford to spend a month, it sometimes makes sense. and like many consumer advocates say, you have to be careful when shopping by payment because you could be paying higher than you should if you have not done your homework.
that being said, every deal is different - and every dealer is different. if you feel comfortable giving them your payoff, fine. if you don't, that's fine too - i just havent seen on my end of the deal making process any disadvantage to not sharing that information. kinda like when people dont say anything about a trade until the final numbers have been set...
my manager told me a funny story once about these people who would park in the plaza next door to the dealership. they said they didn't have a trade, and he worked out the numbers with them, then says - ok you can go get your trade that you parked in the other lot now! heh ;-)
I calculate a whole sheet of payments based on different rates, terms and principal amounts and take it with me, that way i know within a few dollars what any payment will be.
I also have never taken delivery the same day and so can go home with the amounts to figure exact payments that night.
And I always check the exact numbers before signing, because more than once F&I has tried to cheat me by postdating the first payment 45 days from the sale date instead of the customary 30 days, and failing to mention it. This has the effect of capitalizing 15 days of full principal amount interest. Then when I mention that their monthly payment amount is too high, they scramble and "find" the difference. That's why I usually use USAA now.
I'm not in the biz, but I'm willing to bet that you are in the distinct minority:
"I calculate a whole sheet of payments based on different rates, terms and principal amounts and take it with me, that way i know within a few dollars what any payment will be".
You are probably sorely outnumbered by the people that figure they can spend $400/month, and that's all they really care about (and probably don't understand all the financing issues anyway).
remember, the dealer types see a lot of buyers, and there model/practices will always be geared to the majority (the "average buyer"), which probably ain't most of the people hanging around here! So, it's not personal when they don't respond to you the way you want them to. You are just out of the norm.
Now, IMO, a real good salesperson will be able to quickly pick up on your knowledge/style and adapt to it, but you also need to understand where they are coming from.
Note, I mean the royal "you" here (not picking on you personally), as a type of buyer.
I have my own odd style that I'm sure makes no sense to the sales peole, but it works for me (I do it all in my head).
a very honest salesperson and don't see the payoff as an issue because you're going to do the right thing anyway. I can honestly tell you, before I developed my current strategy of not disclosing my payoff, I did get trade numbers just above my payoff. I know their thinking was that I was going to be happy with anything above what I owed and that I probably had no idea what my car was really worth. When you can drive off that lot and onto another within the same day and get another couple thousand out of your car, then I do question motives.
I never walk onto a car lot without knowing the following:
My current payoff on what I'm driving A reasonable KBB or NADA trade value of my car And, a range of current interest rates, the amount I will finance at those rates, and the term.
Additionally, I have almost always had 1500 to 2000 in equity on my trades and my cars are well-kept and maintained. Mileage is never an issue either.
People who go in depending on the dealership to provide all this info, in my opinion, are grossly UNDERinformed!!
PS cadillacmike, gotta agree with you too, I don't ever sign the day I get my numbers. My PC is my best friend when I make car deal!!
thanks for the kind words! to be honest, i actually like when people come in educated - i find that these people have a realistic understanding of what we own the car for, and what is a fair deal. it seems people who have no clue always want like $10000 off sticker - and its just not possible (on most cars). its tough to convince these people that we're being honest about what is available for us to discount... and they often want free this and that and the other thrown in. as much as we'd love to make every deal, sometimes we just cant!
anyways, sounds like you've got a great system going!
is running my own retail business (well, it's my boyfriend's but I'm the 24-7 person). It really opens your eyes to what is involved in keeping the doors open and the lights on. Reasonable deals are accepted. The problem is, as you said, most people have no idea what is reasonable and there is a fine line where you're better off NOT selling. I get all the time "Well, I guess you just don't want to sell it!" Well, they're darn right I don't want to sell it when it means I will lose money - I'd rather keep the antique, they appreciate everyday you keep them in good condition (a little different than the car business, I know).
Most people have never heard of overhead - what it takes just to open the door for business everyday. And, here's a big one here - they want you to discount something 25 or 30% and then whip out a credit card to pay for it. They are amazed that all those payment processing companies out there don't offer those services for free. I've always said that the average IQ in the general buying public is a negative number!! I'm offered proof every day!!
agreed! and you're lucky that you are selling things that appreciate, not depreciate. i get so many people out here coming in on a last years model expecting us to sell it for thousands and thousands below invoice...well folks, just because its a year older doesnt mean we own it for less! sure we'll do our best to cut a deal, maybe even go into all of holdback and a few bucks more, but thousands and thousands just dont happen.
i love those that say "i'm paying cash, so what more can you discount the car?" um...none - we make money financing! your cash means nothing! ;-)
anyways, i was very nervous and skeptical of the car business before i got into it, and now that im here, its amazing all the falsities that people have. i guess you gotta walk a mile in the other guys shoes...
which is why i like posting and reading in here! as a consumer, you buy a car maybe once every three years? it's nice to refresh myself on what consumers are thinking!
Please put in your commas, that 10,000 looked like 1000 to me at first :P
On my last car, I didn't calc the payment until the evening after I agreed on a price - I was more concerned about the huge sales tax (no trade) than the payment, and I was a bit preturbed at the $600.00 plus monthly payment, but what the heck, it gave my wife a new car and gave me the Eldorado convertible :shades:
I have never bought a car online though I am thinking about looking into that in the near future. I was wondering what you all thought about the ability to actual discuss the price of a car face to face and if that is better for negotiating rather than the internet? What is the typical procedure for buying online, is there any negotiating?
gathering quotes via the internet tends to be the most direct way to a low price. if negotiating isn't your favorite thing to do, i say gather some quotes via internet and see where they fall based on what you are looking to pay. depending on the vehicle, you may be able to get a little more off the internet price - but usually those quotes are the best a dealer can do (they know they only get one shot to get your attention, and usually give a great price)
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Note, I never bought from them, and am not recommending them at all. It is just a site that to me works really well.
Also, they are a no-haggle operation, if that makes a difference, but it's nice to have the prices right out in front. You can decide on line if you are happy with the deal before you make any contact.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'm a woman and I usually drive manuals. You would not believe how many salesman have asked me "You did notice this car had a clutch?" My response is usually "Yes, I noticed and the one I'm leaving in NOW has a clutch too!" Please don't treat me differently because of my gender - no salesman would ever say that to a man.
I HATE and ABHOR when a salesman says "Better hurry, got someone else looking at that one!" I politely informed the last one that tried this one that I had decided to do the decent thing and let the other people have it and I'd find another one. I'm not stupid! I know until I sign on the line that the car is available to anyone willing to pay the price. Yes, I have lost cars to other buyers. I've never shopped for a car that they only made a handful - there are others out there!!
And, REALLY, HONESTLY, when I tell you "I'm just looking" I truly mean that. If you have the courtesy to introduce yourself, hand me your card and leave me alone, I will look you up when I become interested in a car.
thenebean - kudos for your "do unto others" personal policy!!
I don't treat women any differently than men. I may mention sticks aren't very popular and it may be a lot more difficult to sell later down the road.
I don't tell people there are other people interested in a used car unless I happen to know there is. I can't tell you how often I've had customers leave, go shop for the rest of the weekend only to return and be VERY disappointed the car they really wanted was sold to someone else. I even had a woman once tell me.." You should have been pushier!"...Sorry, that's not my style.
And, if you tell me you are "just looking", I'll ask what you are looking for, point you in the right direction, hand you my card and tell you to come find me if you have any questions.
Be friendly. I'm not a bad person. You just may end up really liking me.
Tell the truth. If you have a trade in, don't be coy and try to hide that from me. I'll know anyway.
If you possibly can, leave your small children at home. A car dealership isn't a playground or a fun place for them. Same applies to dogs.
Don't ask to test drive cars you have no abilty or intension to buy.
Give me a chance to respond...if I have spent a lot of time with you and someone else gives you a lower price, share that with me. I'll always be able to meet or beat it. If you get lowballed or lied to somewhere else, WALK OUT and come see me. I won't say " I told you so"!
lhess, i am a woman, and i treat men AND women with respect when they come in! i know that i have heard women say they hate it when they are looking for a car with their husband/boyfriend that the salesperson only talks to the man. not in my case. i remember when i went to look for my car (before i worked as a salesperson) i knew more than the salesman on the sentra spec-V. i think it kinda blew his mind a little - nevermind the fact its a 6sp. manual!
i like cars, i know other women like cars, and i know some men know nothing about cars! i try to be helpful, informative, and non-pressuring!
i only let people know "hurry someone is looking at your car" if a) i know this person is really interested in the car and someone else is really looking at it, and b) if its true.
i've had people, same as isell, get upset because i didnt get back to them about a car that did end up selling. i certainly won't use it as a ploy to get people to buy, but i can understand how others will.
isell, i agree with all your points above as well. don't bring the whole brood with you- screaming kids running around a showroom with $30k cars isnt pleasant, and we get a little nervous that there may be damage done. also, don't stop in if you have 10 minutes, then want me to rush to do my job - not fair, first to you - and to me as well. i want to make sure i've gotten all the information i need to give you what you need.
i also get irked by people who come in at 7:45 when we close at 8, and want to test drive 3 different cars. to them i hand a business card and ask them to come back when we are open, and have time - i wouldn't expect a restaurant to stay open if i showed up to eat at 8:50 and they closed at 9!
just my .02 - keep the thoughts coming!
-thene
I too, used to think their site was the best...
regards,
kyfdx
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A tip for you that I learned a long time ago. If I'm getting off at 9:00, I'll always fudge by an hour. I'll tell the customer I'll be aroud to "around 8:00". I've learned the hard way if I say I'm off at a certain time, they will almost always show up ten minutes before then.
I've reduced my number of late nighters greatly this way. Besides, I'm a "morning person" and my energy is pretty well shot by 8:00 or 9:00.
The only difference I am aware of is for Honda. For some reason, you have to put in an Email address so it will show the upfront price. They don't send you an email (the address doesn't even have to be valid), but it is supposedly soemthing that Honda requries them to do.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
regards,
kyfdx
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B - what is the bottom line on the new one?
I can figure the math myself to see if we're in my ballpark or not. I usually know the amount I can and will finance, have a good idea on interest rates, and know how long I willing to finance. Before we start on the paperwork, there's no reason for the salesperson to know about my payoff.
I will agree that shoppers can be annoying as well. I sell antiques and there's a lot of similarities to car sales - haggling, wasting your time, what's my granny's thingamadoo worth?, they can't figure simple discounts in their heads...they think PROFIT is the big, bad wolf...and, yes, they show up right as your locking the door thinking there is nothing else you have to do that evening (we're not real people - we don't have families, pets, lawns to mow, errands to run and laundry)..and on, and on. I think shoppers have a right to respect the "do unto others" as well.
I just had a mazda salesman who restored my faith in the car-buying process. He was wonderful and I've sent some fellow 8 admirers his way. isellhondas and thenebean...high pressure sales and tricks of the trade may get you one sale, but it's not likely to get you a REPEAT sale. I commend your efforts.
lhess, you see the same kinda stuff selling antiques - and you are right! buyers need to follow the golden rule just like salespeople - it's amazing, such a simple lesson we learn in kindergarten that we cant remember as adults!
and thank you for the kind compliments - trying to make this difficult doesnt help myself or the consumer! no pressure, honesty and integrity = happy customers :-)
-thene
There is another reason for asking the payoff questions....it relates to credit. If mr customer is financing thru a blood bank it's a clue that the customer may not qualify for the best tier rates...so it would be misleading to quote the customer payments based on a rate he/she won't qualify for. I'm sure there are dealers who have less than desirable motives in asking the payoff questions but most just want to know so the process moves along easier.
Our trade was a manual and she couldn't drive it (we debated on helping her with this too) and the sales manager wouldn't give us a quote because his salesperson couldn't report properly on the car. It was an old car, paid for, so we just decided to sell it ourselves and bought the car from her. The men in that place were furious. I saw her outside of the dealership a few months later and she told me that she had been "laid off." The last month she was there she was top salesperson!! I congratulated her on one-upping the "old boys club" even if she did lose her job!!
PS She was beautiful and dressed to sell if you know what I mean (thinking back, that's probably why my husband was so nice to her !!). I really admired her spunk!!
besides, i show all the men up here when it comes to product knowledge anyways - haven't lost a quiz yet! ;-)
-thene
sheesh!
-thene
Yes, as a consumer I want a fresh car that hasn’t been abused by somebody else. At same time when I test drive a car I want to drive it really hard to see what the car can do and see if I will be satisfied with its performance. The solution to this catch 22 is to have demos for test drives. However, most of the time when I go to a dealer and ask for a demo for a test drive, the salesperson insists on finding a car on the lot in my color preference and options I want and pulls a fresh car off the lot for a test drive. I don’t care what color the test drive car is as long as it performs just like the car I am planning to purchase, but the dealer insists on pulling a fresh car out so that I could get emotionally attached to the car and make an implosive purchase.
" I want a fresh car that hasn't been abused by someone else"
I haven't made someone pull over half way through a demo drive in a long time but you would probably qualify.
No way will I let someone "see what a car can do" with me in it!
Tell the manager you want to drive the hell out of one of their cars and buy one that is pristine.
Maybe he will tell you to hit the road. Maybe he will give you a used car to test drive once he realizes you are a serious buyer.
In the past 20 years I must have test driven around 50 cars, only twice I was told to knock it off (needless to say, those salespeople didn’t get my business). Most salespeople just smile when I floor it, and some even give me pointers on how to get most out of the car. Only once I could tell that the salesperson was genuinely scared during my test drive.
Yes, bobst, I have purchased 9 new cars in my lifetime.
You said you wanted to "see what a car can do". Well, a lowly Accord is capable of 130 MPH. That's what it "can do". If I have a shopper wanting to test this they can do it AFTER they have bought the car.
I don't know you or your driving abilities. I'm a captive passenger and I refuse to feel endangered during a demo drive. I'm too old for that and if I lose your business, that's fine too. My demo drives consist of a "loop". There is a nice hill that I encourage by customers to jump on the gas on.
If they tailgate on the freeway or do something stupid, I will definatly tell them to knock it off.
If you've been asked twice to "knock it off" you are probably driving too fast or in an abusive manner. I think in ten years I've told maybe four or five people to slow down.
What SHOULD be said in an email to a dealer to show serious interest and to be taken seriously?
I already know what kind of used car I want and what options I need such as an automatic. I don't really care whether it's a 2 door or 4 door. I do have a few select options that I would like but they could wait, like a keyless entry. I do have a dealership in mind that I'd like to buy from. They do internet shopping and I've heard some good reviews on their internet shopping and regular lot shopping. I already know they don't have anything I am interested in at the moment. I do not have a car right now, I have someone that can take me up there like once every 1-2 weeks since it is kind of far, so email is much easier for me.
My price limit is $14,000. I'd like the monthly payments to be as low as possible.
I really do NOT want them to call me.I don't even have a cellphone so there is no convienent time for them to call me.. If they answered my email with enough information then I wouldn't mind calling them. But I rather not send a detailed email just to get told to call them.
So how should an email be written to get the best response? Do just I tell them what exact car and options I need and make it clear I am definatley interested in buying from them..?
Do I tell them my price limit and/or montly payment limit? What is too low to request for monthly payments? Or will that be an instant turn off? If it was up to me, my payments would be like $200 a month but I'm sure that is way too low. One guy did ask me once to tell him what I'd need my monthly payments to be and they could work with that, but I'm afraid of saying something too low and that being a complete turn off.
Of course, we live in the very competitive Northern Virginia area where the dealers are drooling over our dollars. In other areas, the dealers might not be so anxious to answer your Emails.
In another thread everyone was saying that a lot of dealers don't take emails seriously because they get so many crap ones. I actually did email a couple of delaers about a month ago and never heard back. I had one guy reply, but wouldn't specifically answer anything, just asked me to call him. So I wanted to do it right this time. :confuse:
to get my attention, you send an email saying you are looking for a specific vehicle - give us your contact information, and any relevant information you can, so we can go to work for you. if you say "im looking for an xyzmobile and want to pay $14000" and just give us an email - it is likely you will have your email deleted. however if you word it like this" dear so and so, my name is joe schmoe and i am in the market for a 2000 xyzmobile zoomster. i am looking for automatic transmission, power windows, locks, cd player and lower miles (under 50k) i am not too particular in color, but would prefer silver or lighter colors. please let me know if you have any in stock, or any incoming. i am looking to pay between $13-$14k. please contact me via email, as i am not available often by phone. I look forward to hearing from you"
something like that WOULD get my attention. detailed is good - it shows you are taking the time to specify what you are looking for because you are genuinely interested. again, more information the better. if you do not have a phone number to provide them with, indicate you are tough to reach by phone - and are more accessible via email. hopefully that helps - let us know how it goes!
-thene
Question to the many internet managers that frequent this thread :P: does an email send through Edmunds' "Contact a dealer" pop-up form have a lower chance of getting deleted, vs. an email normally originated? For the reference, 2+ years ago when I used Edmunds dealer email form, I got 3 responses out of 5 dealers within a day. Things may be different now...
like my example, if you say "interested in an F150, send me your best price" you'll get deleted. how about equipment? trim level, 4x2 or 4x4? things like that.
as to target prices in the email, i can understand not wanting to put them in, but you can get a wide range of prices on used cars (depending on equipment, condition, miles) and it helps us find you a car that meets ALL your needs. notice i put $13-$14k, meaning i am not looking to JUST spend $14k. if you want, put a target price a little lower than you want to spend, and maybe you'll get a better deal that way!
i guess its up to you if you want to give a price, but if i need to emphasize anything about sending an email lead to a dealer, its be specific, be reachable, and give your real name/email and or phone number
my 2 cents
-thene
B - what is the bottom line on the new one?
I can figure the math myself to see if we're in my ballpark or not. I usually know the amount I can and will finance, have a good idea on interest rates, and know how long I willing to finance. Before we start on the paperwork, there's no reason for the salesperson to know about my payoff. "
Exactly. There's no need for them to know your payoff amount until final calculation of the financing.
the more information we have to work with, the easier it is to give you complete and accurate numbers (especially if we're working towards a payment)
if you owe $15000 on a vehicle worth $9000, it may make a difference on whether we can even work a deal out for you or not.
i guess to each his own, but i don't see that keeping the payoff amount out of it gives you any sort of advantage...
my 2 cents...
-thene
I usually get financing rate and term from USAA ahead of time and then I always call them on the day of purchase to get try and get an additional 1% or so lower rate (works EVERY time). But then like lhess and bobst, I know where I stand on my current car(s) and have NEVER been "upside down" come trade time on any car.
And I won't disclose any details of prearranged financing to the F&I dept either. I will tell them that I have such financing arranged, and depending on their past performance will or will NOT let them try to best my pre-arranged rate, but but every time I have let them try to best my already prearranged rate, they come in higher and then when I tell them, the rate "magically" comes down. At which time I call USAA and they beat the "magically" adjusted rate by 1/4 to 1/2% or more, so i figure, why bother. The same shennagins have been played to me with trade values before, so I won't let the info out any more. I prefer to keep certain information to myself.
Yes the payoff is needed, but that's a 10 min conf call with the bank and F&I after sale price and trade allowance are already figured.
sounds like you got a great plan that works for you! far be it from me to say whether its right or wrong. some people do actually shop based on payment. since that is what they can afford to spend a month, it sometimes makes sense. and like many consumer advocates say, you have to be careful when shopping by payment because you could be paying higher than you should if you have not done your homework.
that being said, every deal is different - and every dealer is different. if you feel comfortable giving them your payoff, fine. if you don't, that's fine too - i just havent seen on my end of the deal making process any disadvantage to not sharing that information. kinda like when people dont say anything about a trade until the final numbers have been set...
my manager told me a funny story once about these people who would park in the plaza next door to the dealership. they said they didn't have a trade, and he worked out the numbers with them, then says - ok you can go get your trade that you parked in the other lot now! heh ;-)
-thene
I also have never taken delivery the same day and so can go home with the amounts to figure exact payments that night.
And I always check the exact numbers before signing, because more than once F&I has tried to cheat me by postdating the first payment 45 days from the sale date instead of the customary 30 days, and failing to mention it. This has the effect of capitalizing 15 days of full principal amount interest. Then when I mention that their monthly payment amount is too high, they scramble and "find" the difference. That's why I usually use USAA now.
"I calculate a whole sheet of payments based on different rates, terms and principal amounts and take it with me, that way i know within a few dollars what any payment will be".
You are probably sorely outnumbered by the people that figure they can spend $400/month, and that's all they really care about (and probably don't understand all the financing issues anyway).
remember, the dealer types see a lot of buyers, and there model/practices will always be geared to the majority (the "average buyer"), which probably ain't most of the people hanging around here! So, it's not personal when they don't respond to you the way you want them to. You are just out of the norm.
Now, IMO, a real good salesperson will be able to quickly pick up on your knowledge/style and adapt to it, but you also need to understand where they are coming from.
Note, I mean the royal "you" here (not picking on you personally), as a type of buyer.
I have my own odd style that I'm sure makes no sense to the sales peole, but it works for me (I do it all in my head).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I never walk onto a car lot without knowing the following:
My current payoff on what I'm driving
A reasonable KBB or NADA trade value of my car
And, a range of current interest rates, the amount I will finance at those rates, and the term.
Additionally, I have almost always had 1500 to 2000 in equity on my trades and my cars are well-kept and maintained. Mileage is never an issue either.
People who go in depending on the dealership to provide all this info, in my opinion, are grossly UNDERinformed!!
PS cadillacmike, gotta agree with you too, I don't ever sign the day I get my numbers. My PC is my best friend when I make car deal!!
thanks for the kind words! to be honest, i actually like when people come in educated - i find that these people have a realistic understanding of what we own the car for, and what is a fair deal. it seems people who have no clue always want like $10000 off sticker - and its just not possible (on most cars). its tough to convince these people that we're being honest about what is available for us to discount... and they often want free this and that and the other thrown in. as much as we'd love to make every deal, sometimes we just cant!
anyways, sounds like you've got a great system going!
-thene
Most people have never heard of overhead - what it takes just to open the door for business everyday. And, here's a big one here - they want you to discount something 25 or 30% and then whip out a credit card to pay for it. They are amazed that all those payment processing companies out there don't offer those services for free. I've always said that the average IQ in the general buying public is a negative number!! I'm offered proof every day!!
i love those that say "i'm paying cash, so what more can you discount the car?" um...none - we make money financing! your cash means nothing! ;-)
anyways, i was very nervous and skeptical of the car business before i got into it, and now that im here, its amazing all the falsities that people have. i guess you gotta walk a mile in the other guys shoes...
which is why i like posting and reading in here! as a consumer, you buy a car maybe once every three years? it's nice to refresh myself on what consumers are thinking!
-thene
On my last car, I didn't calc the payment until the evening after I agreed on a price - I was more concerned about the huge sales tax (no trade) than the payment, and I was a bit preturbed at the $600.00 plus monthly payment, but what the heck, it gave my wife a new car and gave me the Eldorado convertible :shades:
Troll.
-thene