44.....You don't know anything re the car I drive.No need to get personal calling me a cheapo. If we were going to do that, I laugh at your $20 pair of shoes. Btw, your the kind of guy I'd grind out of most of the holdback.
Hello, can anyone help me and tell me the internet car sale process. The reason I ask is because I'm buying a car in Jacksonville, FL, but I live in Tallahassee, FL. I'm sorry the internet price and professionalism of the nissan dealer in jacksonville is worth the 2 hour drive. But my question is, what can I do right now to make my only visit to jacksonvile the time when I will buy the car and leave.
Okay 1) They gave me a great price with taxes, title, etc. I have a trade in car. Can I ask them to fax me the out the door cost of the car with added prepartion fees, and all fees they will add to my buyers order then when I get to the lot they can subtract the price for the car? We're going through our credit union and everything is established, so how do I do that with a long distance internet sale? DO I fax jacksonville the information from the credit union? Sorry I know this is a lot of questions, but I just need to know the process of the internet sale. I have a good price with taxes, and etc. But I don't want to drive 2 hours to jacksonville and find out they are charging me 600 for dealer prepartion and other non-sense. Please let me know. GOd Bless
"what can I do right now to make my only visit to jacksonvile the time when I will buy the car and leave."
Until they can't see you car in the flesh, I doubt they will give you an exact price for your trade-in.
I doubt there really is anything like an 'internet sale'. The internet is just one more way for us to communicate.
You can communicate with a car dealer however you like - telephone, the internet, or by carrier pigeon - and you might be able to nail down an exact out-the-door price as I have done in the past. The dealer might actually honor that price when you appear in person, as Rosenthal Honda did with us, or they might not.
My advice is to determine the price you want to pay and go to your local dealer and see if they will accept it.
first of all, I was referring to the remark about never paying MSRP, not what you drive. Secondly, the cars you can grind on are low end (cheapmobiles), not high end. Thirdly, you could not grind me on holdback (we have business builder that is dealer money not sales department money) and if you got nasty, it would be a swift good-by
Yeah they actually called me on the phone and I said I would call back they gave me a great price with tax, title etc over the phone, but I don't know if that include dealer fees and etc. But hopefully they will call Monday, and I can do as much as I can through carrier or over the phone. Thanks and God Bless.
Thanks a lot! So just ask for a out the door price, they quoted me 24k for a 2007 nissan altima, which beats all local dealers, but it's probably no way I can get a OTD price without showing them my trade in car.
heavensoldier - it sounds like you have a good relationship going with a dealer who wants to believer a car. Why not ask them all the questions you are asking us. I bet they will fax you the contract that includes the total OTD cost. It will have a VIN vehicle identification number on it, a stock number (maybe) and it'll have the miles on the odometer. These are all important points to be cleared up before you drive to the dealer. PLUS, the contract will have the managers signature on it. OK? All those things are on the piece of paper you get from the dealer before you drive down. This is NOT unusual for Internet *real* department to do. The trade in: please use edmunds and kbb.com and be truthful about condition of trade in when you impute the numbers. I'm guessing but the dealer will probably offer you less that what you come up with. I'd ask for more that what it's worth, but that is just me. Have a clear understanding what the estimated trade-in value is. Ask yourself "if I think it's worth $5,000 and they offer me $1,750, what am I going to do?" Think the process through. Ask them how they came to that value and that is when you pull out your edmunds and kbb copies. Deal with them at arms length distance. I love buying a new car. Have fun! :-)
Hey thanks shoparound. I'm going to ask her, but just couldn't wait to Monday so I asked here:) But your right I'm going to ask Monday but everyone here made it more clear what to ask, so thanks again. Back to America's Most Wanted. God Bless
If you got a very good price then they will under pay you on your trade in. Don't be optimistic that this deal will work,don't be invested,and be ready to walk. Determine what your trade in is worth before you drive 2 hours. If you liked the price just go to a local dealer and see what they will do on the deal and your trade. Have you gotten the dealer cost here on edmunds? Are there mfg to dealer incentives on the car? Remember to reduce the invoice by the "holdback" which usually 3% of invoice to get a more accurate cost. There are books at the book store you could browse on how to buy a car. Hope this helps. Honda's usually have the best resale you should check them out. Hope this helps.
44..... I'm an educated person. I know better than to buy a high end car. Why would I get nasty? I will either buy the car or not. There's always another deal.
Excellent post - you've hit the nail on the head!!
Due to their great experience, they will be more likely to even remember my name after 90 days and send a refferal my way before they buy again
2 years after buying my daughters civic I am still referring people who are looking for a Honda to the Internet Sales Manager I dealt with. His honesty and professionalism are the reason why.
As to dealers I have dealt with who tried to play games, I do my best to warn others to stay away.
but everyone here made it more clear what to ask, so thanks again.
Here's one more.
You have gotten some very good advice here from guys who aren’t in the biz and there is nothing wrong with that. However, it would be nice if some of the guys in the biz chimed in here.
The only sticky wicket appears to be what the dealer will give you for your trade-in since they haven’t seen it yet. So beware and ready for a price you don’t like. Just remember, before you let them steal it from you, drive it home. Don’t let hot pants for a car cloud your judgment by using the false reasoning of, “what can I do I’m already here, I will have spent more than 4 hours traveling and negotiating for this beauty, just get it and take it home already”. DON’T DO THAT. :sick:
It’s OK to fall in love just as long as it isn’t with inanimate objects like cars.
Slow down and think it through and let us know how it goes.
Hey, when are you guys in the biz going to provide input for this buyer?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
there appears to be an awful lot of habitual skepticism tainted with a disagreeable tendency coming from some non-biz experts ... emotions like "before you let them steal it from you", "Don't be optimistic that this deal will work" ... are these words of encouragement? What is the invoice price less holdback of the crystal ball they are using?
heavensoldier: I've heard a very good argument for keeping the two deals, buying the new car and selling the used car, separate and I'll cut to the chase. Focus on buying the new car at the lowest price then add tax, title and documentation (deal #1 done); then sell your used car to the dealer for the highest price (deal #2 done).
Use Edmunds.com and kbb.com to get an estimated trade-in value; The estimated trade-in value is the amount the dealer will buy your used car for. Deal #2. (deal 1 - deal 2 = done deal).
You should be able to get two pieces of paper faxed to you without any drama, 1) a basic worksheet which has your name, address, phone number, stock number, vin number, miles on the car your buying and all the optional equipment on the car your buying listed on the worksheet. And finally the selling price of the car you are buying. This important piece of paper must be signed buy the *manager*. 2) Purchase Agreement, this is the contract and it has everything on it that the worksheet does less the optional equipment on the car. It's probably all typed out nice and neat. The selling price and all fees are legable.
They'll be more paper work to do in the f&i (finance and insurance/ business office) office, just go with the flow and keep an arms length distance. Don't buy anything more than you need.
Use Edmunds.com and kbb.com to get an estimated trade-in value; The estimated trade-in value is the amount the dealer will buy your used car for. Deal #2. (deal 1 - deal 2 = done deal).
Another good source would be a Carmax store as they'll give you a real world price, which in my experience has been on the low end. Remember to account for the sales tax differences when paying for the new vehicle if selling your trade-in to Carmax.
Hey thanks again everyone it's a lot of help. Thanks shoparound for breaking it down like that, now I feel more comfortable about what to expect. I'll have to print all of this out. So I guess I'll have to do the trade-in if I go along with the deal when I get to the lot? Also if they have to get my car from another dealer can they still ship me the retail buyers order or is that the same as the worksheet and purchase agreement? Thanks again and God Bless.
Rover.... "If you really had all this knowledge you would know that." Thanks for ascribing some level of knowledge to me,Rover guide. I would never buy a Rover (appropriately named,I think) or any other european auto. Their prices far exceed their value. Buying one of those "things" is a good way to lose $30 large on resale. Come on, even you know that.
Yes.. but, you don't make an offer for Vons' Pork 'n Beans, based on their invoice cost, either..
If a person wants to make an offer based on dealer cost + $XXX, then they can expect to see a lot of "costs" included in that amount..
Okay, but one also does not go to Von's and pay the $0.99 list price for their beans and then have the next person in line say "what is your best price on these beans" and the cashier says "$0.79, would you like to buy them at that price?".
So I guess I'll have to do the trade-in if I go along with the deal when I get to the lot?
> no. they haven't seen the used car and they quoted you a price on the new car and you're happy with that, so buy the new car.
Also if they have to get my car from another dealer...
> how are you getting home if you trade in your car and they do a dealer trade? You want to do this deal in ONE trip.
can they still ship me the retail buyers order or is that the same as the worksheet and purchase agreement?
> yes
heavensoldier - you have a few things going here :-) so i advise slowing down and talking everything over with the dealer. bring a friend with you to the dealership in case there are any surprises. your friend could drive the used car back (as long as they're insured, double check on that); and you'll drive the new car back.
what gave you the idea they have to do a dealer trade? try for no dealer trade...
did you run the used car through the edmunds.com and kbb.com trade-in estimator? are you fine with the amount? be honest with the numbers, no kinks.
go over everything ((as much as you can) get it in writing)with the rep on the phone tomorrow, only drive down if it passes your sniff test... ciao
Plain and Simple. Cars are sold by people, not numbers. Most simply feed you #'s to get you there to sell you. I tried buying a car on-line and found that all kinds of numbers are shot fromt the gun but you can't confirm anything until you go to the dealership. If you have a trade, forget about it because they can give you one number for the new car and totally undervalue your trade. I ended up going to the dealership down the road and haggling 'old school'. Dont be naive and think that there is some special magic using the internet. You can throw feelers out to dealerships all over the country but you still have to go to the dealership and confirm the #'s. Consider the fact that they know that you are coming a long distance and that puts you at a disadvantage. Clinton Honda tried to take me to the cleaners on my 04 Pilot because they knew I drove an hour to get there. They tried to mess with me but I knew the #'s and laughed at them. I told them no matter how long they tried to stall me and make me wait, it wouldn't sell me. They figured since I drove all that way they could reem me out. Jersey dealers are the worst sharks in the sea of dealerships. Anyway BEWARE!
If you have a trade, forget about it because they can give you one number for the new car and totally undervalue your trade
It's critical to actually go to the dealership because viewing and driving the trade is critical. If you are not in the business you may not have an appreciation of the, let us say, 'creative appreciation' some have for their trades.
To be more direct many many trades are damaged with CarFax accident notations and the statement of the trader is 'Nope never been in an accident'. The appraiser has a small tool to check if a vehicle has been repainted ' Oh yeah, a small meteorite did hit it in the parking lot but it was nothing'
Smoker? You don't know until the appraisal and the cloud rushes out of the vehicle. BTW, it never oomes out of the fabric.
Tuner? Cool. You've just cut the potential market by 95%.
Modded truck? Hayylll yassss. Yup your brother is the only other person on the planet earth who might buy it.
It's almost impossible to put a number on a trade without seeing it first and doing an appraisal.
So for those that are doing internet shopping with a trade, the OTD numbers on a new car is only half the challenge.
We might be $500 higher on a OTD price than another dealer, but might be able to put $1000 more into a trade for whatever reason.
No two used cars/trade-ins are alike, ever!!!! They might be same models, same years, but the mileage won't be the same, they might have different accessories, and they were probably driven differently, different wear and tear.
That's why when someone asks me on the lot or over the phone what their trade is worth, and they "just want a ballpark" I usually give them a $5 to $10k spread: "It's worth between $5k and $15k. I have to see it."
On some models you can narrow it down, but if we give out a "ballpark" number without seeing the car then one of two things will happen: a: "oh no it's worth more" and we will never see that customer again as that to him/her will be a number in stone
b: they come back and get a full appraisal and if it's worth less for whatever reason, they will hold you to the ballpark that you gave them or call yuo a liar
No two used cars/trade-ins are alike, ever!!!! They might be same models, same years, but the mileage won't be the same, they might have different accessories, and they were probably driven differently, different wear and tear.
I have a car in my fleet - a 2003 Chrysler Concorde, 38k miles, used mostly on long trips. I thought that it would be a cream puff and thought about purchasing it because it was spotless.
I always drive a "turn in" to see in what kind of shape it is in. Despite being told that it was in "showroom" shape, when I test drove it, I could not keep it on the road. The driver must have hit something as the cradle underneath was seriously bent up and the car could not be aligned - $1500 repair. WOW!
i heard the newspaper folks threw in with the tv folks and both of them threw in with the internet folks; it's a conspiracy, i tell you! they all just want to sell more american made cars!
Cars are sold by people, not numbers. Never forget, everything sells by the numbers! Dealers want to convert to the "people" crap but it needs not be that way!
Most simply feed you #'s to get you there to sell you. Yes, some do, but there is no good reason to go there. You are forgetting that you can get a vehicle delivered to your door and never having to step foot at the dealership.
Honda tried to take me to the cleaners on my 04 Pilot That is the problem with your whole approach! You are NOT trying to buy a car, you are actually doing 2 transactions: a sale and a purchase.
If you are serious about online transactions you have to make sure that you dealing with a pure commodity so that one can be substituted by many others. That is how competition works for you! Your trade is the problem because it is unique. If you are serious about keeping most of your money in your pocket you would unbundle the buy and sell parts! Sell your car at one dealership (Carmax?)or privately and buy another one anywhere else! If you show up to most dealerships and do a trade, finance and warranty, the will make money on EVERY sub-transaction if they can... :sick: Heh, and they will also be happy to charge you for the convenience of doing the whole thing at one place!
Are you saying the internet person doesn't’t get partial credit for the sale because he never made phone contact? I would have thought an e-mail was more substantial than a phone call.
Here at our dealership, unless I have proof through our phone software that I actually held a 2 minute conversation with you over the phone or we set an appointment in an e-mail communication, I have no way of claiming partial credit for that deal. It happens here a lot. The 22 year old does all the surfing and gathers all the info on the car, but since dad is the co-x he wants to go the old fashioned way and beat it out downstairs. I spend a little time structuring numbers, sending a few e-mails and the 22 year old shows up with dad and I have nothing to show for it. We're told that it doesn't really matter because it did not take that much effort to gather the info and put it in an e-mail, but the way I see it...I send 100 e-mails and make 100 calls for every one show and closed prospect, so when this happens...it's like I work twice as hard to get the next deal out. It's just a time management thing but I know the customer would have had a better, no nonsense experience with me, but some people are just eager to pick a fight and work the traditional way I guess, or they are just not informed enough to know that the internet sales person actually sells the car too...and I give a very good walk around
...I have no way of claiming partial credit for that deal. It happens here a lot.
Since it happens a lot you should have a long convincing talk with the boss.
If your store can't come up with a better arrangement than they now have, I know it's easy for me to say, but, maybe you have to find a better store to work for.
Nobody should be taken advantage of like that.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I cannot say enough positive things regarding my experience purchasing a new RDX from INSKIP ACURA of RI. I only needed to make one trip there - and it was more than worth the extra 80 miles round trip for me. They have a modern dealership building and very good inventory - for a purchaser at least. Their internet sales manager is a terrific guy and excellent to deal with. A straight-shooter, very helpful and accommodating. I finalized a deal there in person yesterday and RDX is being delivered to me tomorrow.
My initial contact was via email and everything flowed smoothly from there to the ultimate personal meeting to formalize deal and sign papers.
I did not get into pressuring and playing off dealers to any great extent, nor try to get well below invoice, cutting into the dealer holdback as some get lucky with at certain dealers. But you should find an excellent buying experience and find them willing to work with dealer invoice pricing to you. If you are from MA, they will register in MA for you as well.
No personally I wouldn't if I do some work to get an internet lead into the dealerships, the floor sales guys should at least ask if the customer is dealing with anyone here.
For us we have to have the customer logged in the system with a phone number to get credit for half a deal, but most of us here are reasonable and even if we don't have the customer logged, we will split the deal.
If the management is acting in a such a manner I would change dealerhsips (at least if it happens often).
Just bought a new 2007 Mazda6 today. I got a $3000 discount from MSRP (and ~$1700 from invoice) on top of the $2000 rebates.
I was in no real hurry to buy and had already decided the best I was likely to do would be around the price I ended up paying...this was based estimates of future rebates and dealer cash from my extensive research.
Because of something that had happend with our oldest car, even though it did not seem like I would be able to get to my target yet, I checked (via email) with about 4 or so dealers that I had asked for pricing at one time or another in the last 6 months or so.
I then told all of them thanks but I was hoping to hit my target price eventually (they were about $900 above) and I was just going to wait an see if there was a special auto show rebate or something next month.
Now one place, where I really did not want to buy had happened to advertise a base model at a discount from MSRP which if applied the car I actually wanted came to my target price. So I asked the internet guy from that particular place if this could be done. He could only come within about $800 of it. Told him the same thing, price seems good but I'll wait.
Then yesterday morning, he asked me if I would buy if he could actually meet that price, which he said he wasn't sure he could do.
It worked out that he was able to and I bought the car from him...even though I tried very hard to get two other sales people that I had really liked working with to at least come close. With one place we had agreed that I would pay $200 more, but then we realized that he was talking about a cheaper trim level and they actually could not come any closer than about $900.
I think I was just lucky and the timing worked out for me. The closing guy said they needed to "move a unit" and I "won the lottery".
I never met or spoke with the internet guy that I bought from before I met him to buy the car today.
I disagree, he was lucky, and I'm happy for him. Sometimes they just have to move one more unit to make a monthly quota. If you're in the right place at the right time, then you win. What time of the month is it now?
Sometimes they just have to move one more unit to make a monthly quota.
We hear this quite a bit from the guys in the biz that post here. This shouldn't be such a surprise to anybody that does his research.
I'll never know for sure but I feel this happened to me when I bought on April 29 in 2005. A little luck in finding the place that has to almost give one away never hurts.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Wrong. He did his homework. He shopped his deal. He said no at least 3 times. He looked in the paper for a loss leader. He gave the dealer another shot. He waited and let the deal come to him. He knew a good deal when it was offered him and took it. He did a great job and apparently went all the way thru the holdback. There is a lot to be observed re this buy. Why can't you give him credit?
i've also heard the beginning of the month is another good time to buy because the store needs to kick off the month in high gear. everybody's catching their breath from the end of the month push and bang their off to the races again. a good sales manager knows that and puts various incentives out there, i've heard; of course i've also heard that new car dealers want to sell cars every day, could be a rumor...
jeffyscott did a great job - he had a well thought out plan and he executing it step by step, he seemed confident and didn't act disparate ... remember the dealerships have a plan, so the buyers should too...
I am giving him credit, just because I said some luck was involved doesn't do that. But I don't care to get in to a long drawn out worthless debate with you as I've seen your posts, so let's end this.
Comments
Not so sure I want to talk to people like this anymore.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Okay 1) They gave me a great price with taxes, title, etc. I have a trade in car. Can I ask them to fax me the out the door cost of the car with added prepartion fees, and all fees they will add to my buyers order then when I get to the lot they can subtract the price for the car? We're going through our credit union and everything is established, so how do I do that with a long distance internet sale? DO I fax jacksonville the information from the credit union? Sorry I know this is a lot of questions, but I just need to know the process of the internet sale. I have a good price with taxes, and etc. But I don't want to drive 2 hours to jacksonville and find out they are charging me 600 for dealer prepartion and other non-sense. Please let me know. GOd Bless
Yeah, I noticed that, and I think he was arguing with himself as well. I couldn't tell who won.
Until they can't see you car in the flesh, I doubt they will give you an exact price for your trade-in.
I doubt there really is anything like an 'internet sale'. The internet is just one more way for us to communicate.
You can communicate with a car dealer however you like - telephone, the internet, or by carrier pigeon - and you might be able to nail down an exact out-the-door price as I have done in the past. The dealer might actually honor that price when you appear in person, as Rosenthal Honda did with us, or they might not.
My advice is to determine the price you want to pay and go to your local dealer and see if they will accept it.
If the dealere accepts our OTD offer, we give them a check for exactly that amount and drive the new car home.
Due to their great experience, they will be more likely to even remember my name after 90 days and send a refferal my way before they buy again
2 years after buying my daughters civic I am still referring people who are looking for a Honda to the Internet Sales Manager I dealt with. His honesty and professionalism are the reason why.
As to dealers I have dealt with who tried to play games, I do my best to warn others to stay away.
Keep up the good work!
Here's one more.
You have gotten some very good advice here from guys who aren’t in the biz and there is nothing wrong with that. However, it would be nice if some of the guys in the biz chimed in here.
The only sticky wicket appears to be what the dealer will give you for your trade-in since they haven’t seen it yet. So beware and ready for a price you don’t like. Just remember, before you let them steal it from you, drive it home. Don’t let hot pants for a car cloud your judgment by using the false reasoning of, “what can I do I’m already here, I will have spent more than 4 hours traveling and negotiating for this beauty, just get it and take it home already”. DON’T DO THAT. :sick:
It’s OK to fall in love just as long as it isn’t with inanimate objects like cars.
Slow down and think it through and let us know how it goes.
Hey, when are you guys in the biz going to provide input for this buyer?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
heavensoldier: I've heard a very good argument for keeping the two deals, buying the new car and selling the used car, separate and I'll cut to the chase. Focus on buying the new car at the lowest price then add tax, title and documentation (deal #1 done); then sell your used car to the dealer for the highest price (deal #2 done).
Use Edmunds.com and kbb.com to get an estimated trade-in value; The estimated trade-in value is the amount the dealer will buy your used car for. Deal #2. (deal 1 - deal 2 = done deal).
You should be able to get two pieces of paper faxed to you without any drama, 1) a basic worksheet which has your name, address, phone number, stock number, vin number, miles on the car your buying and all the optional equipment on the car your buying listed on the worksheet. And finally the selling price of the car you are buying. This important piece of paper must be signed buy the *manager*. 2) Purchase Agreement, this is the contract and it has everything on it that the worksheet does less the optional equipment on the car. It's probably all typed out nice and neat. The selling price and all fees are legable.
They'll be more paper work to do in the f&i (finance and insurance/ business office) office, just go with the flow and keep an arms length distance. Don't buy anything more than you need.
tally ho, topchef repeats are on... Cheers
If you really had all of this knowledge you would know that.
Hi again Socal4
Another good source would be a Carmax store as they'll give you a real world price, which in my experience has been on the low end. Remember to account for the sales tax differences when paying for the new vehicle if selling your trade-in to Carmax.
Do you really think he's back and we're going to go through this again? :sick:
YOI,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If a person wants to make an offer based on dealer cost + $XXX, then they can expect to see a lot of "costs" included in that amount..
Okay, but one also does not go to Von's and pay the $0.99 list price for their beans and then have the next person in line say "what is your best price on these beans" and the cashier says "$0.79, would you like to buy them at that price?".
> no. they haven't seen the used car and they quoted you a price on the new car and you're happy with that, so buy the new car.
Also if they have to get my car from another dealer...
> how are you getting home if you trade in your car and they do a dealer trade? You want to do this deal in ONE trip.
can they still ship me the retail buyers order or is that the same as the worksheet and purchase agreement?
> yes
heavensoldier - you have a few things going here :-) so i advise slowing down and talking everything over with the dealer. bring a friend with you to the dealership in case there are any surprises. your friend could drive the used car back (as long as they're insured, double check on that); and you'll drive the new car back.
what gave you the idea they have to do a dealer trade? try for no dealer trade...
did you run the used car through the edmunds.com and kbb.com trade-in estimator? are you fine with the amount? be honest with the numbers, no kinks.
go over everything ((as much as you can) get it in writing)with the rep on the phone tomorrow, only drive down if it passes your sniff test... ciao
It's critical to actually go to the dealership because viewing and driving the trade is critical. If you are not in the business you may not have an appreciation of the, let us say, 'creative appreciation' some have for their trades.
To be more direct many many trades are damaged with CarFax accident notations and the statement of the trader is 'Nope never been in an accident'. The appraiser has a small tool to check if a vehicle has been repainted ' Oh yeah, a small meteorite did hit it in the parking lot but it was nothing'
Smoker? You don't know until the appraisal and the cloud rushes out of the vehicle. BTW, it never oomes out of the fabric.
Tuner? Cool. You've just cut the potential market by 95%.
Modded truck? Hayylll yassss. Yup your brother is the only other person on the planet earth who might buy it.
Your dream is a commercial nightmare.
It's almost impossible to put a number on a trade without seeing it first and doing an appraisal.
So for those that are doing internet shopping with a trade, the OTD numbers on a new car is only half the challenge.
We might be $500 higher on a OTD price than another dealer, but might be able to put $1000 more into a trade for whatever reason.
No two used cars/trade-ins are alike, ever!!!! They might be same models, same years, but the mileage won't be the same, they might have different accessories, and they were probably driven differently, different wear and tear.
That's why when someone asks me on the lot or over the phone what their trade is worth, and they "just want a ballpark" I usually give them a $5 to $10k spread: "It's worth between $5k and $15k. I have to see it."
On some models you can narrow it down, but if we give out a "ballpark" number without seeing the car then one of two things will happen:
a: "oh no it's worth more" and we will never see that customer again as that to him/her will be a number in stone
b: they come back and get a full appraisal and if it's worth less for whatever reason, they will hold you to the ballpark that you gave them or call yuo a liar
Cheers
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I have a car in my fleet - a 2003 Chrysler Concorde, 38k miles, used mostly on long trips. I thought that it would be a cream puff and thought about purchasing it because it was spotless.
I always drive a "turn in" to see in what kind of shape it is in. Despite being told that it was in "showroom" shape, when I test drove it, I could not keep it on the road. The driver must have hit something as the cradle underneath was seriously bent up and the car could not be aligned - $1500 repair. WOW!
No two USED cars are ever alike.
Never forget, everything sells by the numbers! Dealers want to convert to the "people" crap but it needs not be that way!
Most simply feed you #'s to get you there to sell you.
Yes, some do, but there is no good reason to go there. You are forgetting that you can get a vehicle delivered to your door and never having to step foot at the dealership.
Honda tried to take me to the cleaners on my 04 Pilot
That is the problem with your whole approach! You are NOT trying to buy a car, you are actually doing 2 transactions: a sale and a purchase.
If you are serious about online transactions you have to make sure that you dealing with a pure commodity so that one can be substituted by many others. That is how competition works for you! Your trade is the problem because it is unique. If you are serious about keeping most of your money in your pocket you would unbundle the buy and sell parts! Sell your car at one dealership (Carmax?)or privately and buy another one anywhere else! If you show up to most dealerships and do a trade, finance and warranty, the will make money on EVERY sub-transaction if they can... :sick: Heh, and they will also be happy to charge you for the convenience of doing the whole thing at one place!
Here at our dealership, unless I have proof through our phone software that I actually held a 2 minute conversation with you over the phone or we set an appointment in an e-mail communication, I have no way of claiming partial credit for that deal. It happens here a lot. The 22 year old does all the surfing and gathers all the info on the car, but since dad is the co-x he wants to go the old fashioned way and beat it out downstairs. I spend a little time structuring numbers, sending a few e-mails and the 22 year old shows up with dad and I have nothing to show for it. We're told that it doesn't really matter because it did not take that much effort to gather the info and put it in an e-mail, but the way I see it...I send 100 e-mails and make 100 calls for every one show and closed prospect, so when this happens...it's like I work twice as hard to get the next deal out. It's just a time management thing but I know the customer would have had a better, no nonsense experience with me, but some people are just eager to pick a fight and work the traditional way I guess, or they are just not informed enough to know that the internet sales person actually sells the car too...and I give a very good walk around
-just food for thought
Since it happens a lot you should have a long convincing talk with the boss.
If your store can't come up with a better arrangement than they now have, I know it's easy for me to say, but, maybe you have to find a better store to work for.
Nobody should be taken advantage of like that.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
My initial contact was via email and everything flowed smoothly from there to the ultimate personal meeting to formalize deal and sign papers.
I did not get into pressuring and playing off dealers to any great extent, nor try to get well below invoice, cutting into the dealer holdback as some get lucky with at certain dealers. But you should find an excellent buying experience and find them willing to work with dealer invoice pricing to you. If you are from MA, they will register in MA for you as well.
That statement would have been entirely correct if you had not used the word, "Maybe".
As a guy in the biz, would you take this kind of treatment?
Just curious.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
For us we have to have the customer logged in the system with a phone number to get credit for half a deal, but most of us here are reasonable and even if we don't have the customer logged, we will split the deal.
If the management is acting in a such a manner I would change dealerhsips (at least if it happens often).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I was in no real hurry to buy and had already decided the best I was likely to do would be around the price I ended up paying...this was based estimates of future rebates and dealer cash from my extensive research.
Because of something that had happend with our oldest car, even though it did not seem like I would be able to get to my target yet, I checked (via email) with about 4 or so dealers that I had asked for pricing at one time or another in the last 6 months or so.
I then told all of them thanks but I was hoping to hit my target price eventually (they were about $900 above) and I was just going to wait an see if there was a special auto show rebate or something next month.
Now one place, where I really did not want to buy had happened to advertise a base model at a discount from MSRP which if applied the car I actually wanted came to my target price. So I asked the internet guy from that particular place if this could be done. He could only come within about $800 of it. Told him the same thing, price seems good but I'll wait.
Then yesterday morning, he asked me if I would buy if he could actually meet that price, which he said he wasn't sure he could do.
It worked out that he was able to and I bought the car from him...even though I tried very hard to get two other sales people that I had really liked working with to at least come close. With one place we had agreed that I would pay $200 more, but then we realized that he was talking about a cheaper trim level and they actually could not come any closer than about $900.
I think I was just lucky and the timing worked out for me. The closing guy said they needed to "move a unit" and I "won the lottery".
I never met or spoke with the internet guy that I bought from before I met him to buy the car today.
wow, this is big news ... this is like actuary stuff, huh? care to share your formula or calculations?
We hear this quite a bit from the guys in the biz that post here. This shouldn't be such a surprise to anybody that does his research.
I'll never know for sure but I feel this happened to me when I bought on April 29 in 2005. A little luck in finding the place that has to almost give one away never hurts.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
i've also heard the beginning of the month is another good time to buy because the store needs to kick off the month in high gear. everybody's catching their breath from the end of the month push and bang their off to the races again. a good sales manager knows that and puts various incentives out there, i've heard; of course i've also heard that new car dealers want to sell cars every day, could be a rumor...
jeffyscott did a great job - he had a well thought out plan and he executing it step by step, he seemed confident and didn't act disparate ... remember the dealerships have a plan, so the buyers should too...
Good deal jeffyscott.