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Internet vs. Traditional Car Buying

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  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    I am in the process of buying a 2X4 v6 Toyota 4runner.

    Basically, there are 5-6 dealerships within 25 miles of me. I look on the internet to find their fleet manager or internet sales manager. I ask him straight up for a quote and to have the quote emailed to me. I tell them I cannot do business with them until I get the quote emailed. I then go down the line and call each dealership telling them I have a quote already. Can you beat it? They say they can match it. I tell them , "I want you to beat it." Some dealerships require you to email the quote so I do.

    Sometimes you have to get lucky though. Dealer #1 right off the bat said 1k under invoice. I then asked for quotes from Dealer 2-4 before telling them my 1st quote. They gave me quotes of a few hundred above invoice but hesitantly matched or beat the 1k below invoice quote. They sent the quote via email of course.

    Will buy my car in 9 days. Hopefully everything goes smoothly. I'm a sceptic so I give a 50/50 chance I'll actually get my quote. Btw, its 1200 under invoice at Tustin Toyota.

    Another thing: I will require them to fax me the sales contract in advance so I can search for bogus duplicate charges.

    Thinking about starting a business. Feels good to find deals. I love deals.

    Novel to be continued. . . .
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    I usually dont have to much patience when it comes to dealing back and forth and having the sales person run back to their manager every 5 mins, my frustration would be to make a purchase then find out later I could've bought the car for much less at a different dealership if i had shopped around more, however this is most likely the nature of the beast.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Check the incentives in your area on Edmunds. $1500 cash back in my area. You should offer dealer invoice - incentives - 3% holdback. Good luck.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Geffen, it sounds like you don't like the car buying process.

    If you develop a sound car-buying strategy that suits you, I bet you will enjoy the process much more.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    there has got to come a point where your time, effort, frustration is worth hundreds of dollars.

    the problem doesn't have to be hyper-optimized w.r.t. lowest OTD in order for it to be a good deal.

    also, i think specially during the initial ownership / warranty period, it's nice if you can find a dealership you LIKE.

    life's too short to be thinking you left $200 or so on the table.

    heck, most people try to optimize the OTD price, and then spend way way way too much on financing the thing.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    Actually I love the car buying process, its just the part where the salesperson takes you into their office and the negotiations start can be frustrating. You are right I do have to nail down a strategy before heading in.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    Well, one way to avoid the frustration of negotiating is to never negotiate.

    It works for me and all of my devoted followers.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Gotta be willing to walk. They are going to call you back.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    The quotes I've been getting are 1000-1200 under manuf. invoice and that does NOT include the $1500 incentive in CA. Its $1250 in AZ, btw.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    Why not do everything over the phone and talk directly to the internet sales or fleet manager?

    Get the quote over the phone and have it emailed to you. Shop the emailed quote to 3 other dealerships. And then two days before you buy, confirm your desired price quote, have them fax the sales contract before hand, and show up and buy the car. Very little negotiation. Of course they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try to sell you the alarm system or fabric protection, but just respectfully decline.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    Shop it. Thats what they're for.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    Actually I have been working with the Internet Managers and getting some price quotes, its just the quotes i've been getting never seem as if its their best deal when i look across the internet and compare it to cars.com and autotrader, i will just have to get a strategy together before heading in.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    Just another story: Hope this helps. I called a Toyota dealership asking for a price quote. I told them that I had already called around other toyota dealerships. She gave me a quote of $50 below invoice. I then told her I have a quote for 1k below. She said she called me back. She did and the lowest she could go was $750 below invoice.

    I've only had to verify my quotes twice out of the 7 dealerships I called. You might just want to try making up a number?!?!?
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    One question on the quote, now will they put that in writing for you by email so you can prove the price quote they gave you once its time to buy?
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    I am a little confused by the question. I requested the price quote be sent via email. I intend to print out all my quotes and bring them to the dealership once I decide to buy. If they ask for it, then I'll show it to them. But I don't anticipate that happening. It seems like some (meaning one out of 7 dealerships) managers ask for the email proof to see if i got a good hand or i'm just bluffing.
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    Oh ok, I must have misread this posting about an email being sent to confirm the quote that was given over the phone.
  • jb_turnerjb_turner Member Posts: 702
    There are too many people trying to use e-mail to do their car purchasing. Not many if any dealers will take their time to e-mail or fax information such as sales contract to someone over the net (too much time involved) maybe they get 1 sale out of 50 inquires over the net?
    Internet sales of "Fleet" managers you request are just salespeople plain and simple so no specail deals or pricing there. I am not afraid to actually go to a dealership to "negotiate" well heck we are talking about an item that costs $$,$$$ so why "negotiate" over the phone or e-mail?
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I am not afraid to actually go to a dealership to "negotiate" well heck we are talking about an item that costs $$,$$$ so why "negotiate" over the phone or e-mail?

    I’m not either but to save time the last two times I bought (2005 and 2006) I started with the Internet.

    In 2005 the Internet price was close to what I wanted but still a little high (within $300) so I called the dealership and the salesman said they could do better but only if I came in. I told him what I wanted and he said, “come on in we will probably be able to do business”, but I told the salesman my price was firm and I was not going to negotiate at all. Since that dealership was pretty close (less than 5 miles) I drove over and got my price.

    In 2006, I again started with the Internet and when the price was close (again within $300) I called the dealership (different place, farther away) and told him my price and when he balked, I thanked him for his time and was about to hang up when the guy said he’d have to go to a higher authority and he’d call me back within 20 minutes. He did, he met my price and I bought.

    These were the easiest car purchases I’ve ever made, so, until I find that this system doesn’t work, I sticking with it.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    The quotes I've been getting are 1000-1200 under manuf. invoice and that does NOT include the $1500 incentive in CA

    I thought the imports prided themselves on selling for sticker and never offering rebates :confuse: :confuse:
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Thanks! You are thru the holdback so some other, undisclosed, mfg. money is in play. Keep grindin' them.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    i figure I'm dealing with them on my own ground at home or at work where I'm comfortable and not in their hectic environment. And its been my experience that the internet sales dpt is growing as compared to 3 years ago. Also, going to a dealership takes time. I hate having to wait in their office for even a few minutes. I want my only visit to be the day I buy the car. My goal is to get in and get out in 4 hours time. Hopefully it happens. I'll keep you guys posted.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    geffen: I just like to have proof. I figure they can say all they want but this is in writing. Also, i can take the email quote and shop it around to the many other dealerships w/in 20 miles of me. btw, I'm an engineer so I need everything in writing as proof.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    another thing i noticed is that if your price is still within reason, they'll call you back and reply to your emails. when your price quotes starts becoming unrealistic, they don't rtn calls nor reply to emails. I believe thats the point where the price is right for you.

    regarding "lying" and "cheating" about matching quotes, they do it all the time. its their game and their rules. so learn their rules and play their game. just like the stock market.

    anybody needs help buying a car in socal, let me know.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    My goal is to get in and get out in 4 hours time. Hopefully it happens. I'll keep you guys posted.



    Err if you have a deal all set and ready to go ahead of time you should be out of the dealership in 20-30 minutes. I can see maybe an hour if it is a complicated car and there are alot of features for the saleseprson to go over. This is a toyota though they don't make complicated cars just appliances so 20-30 minutes tops.

    If someone had worked out a deal with me over the phone/email I would have all the paperwork pre-printed, have the car ready well ahead of time, all you have to do is look over the car and paper work then sign.

    No reason it shouldn't take more then a half hour. If a person is not a jerk to me over the phone and leaves me some profit I will take the car to them and do the delivery. You don't even have to come into the dealership. I am doing that tomorrow for a guy. He has already signed all the paperwork and given me a check. I overnighted everything to him and he overnighted it back.

    I will take the car up to his house an hour and a half away and then drive his trade back.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    regarding "lying" and "cheating" about matching quotes, they do it all the time

    so you stoop to their level then...

    i just dont see the reason to play the games...

    -thene :confuse:
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I will take the car up to his house an hour and a half away and then drive his trade back.

    Maybe I missed something, did you buy his trade sight unseen? :confuse:

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    4 Hours in a dealership? Ive never spent that much time in a dealership I can see an hour or hour and a half to go over paperwork but thats it. you may as well pack your lunch or dinner and bring it to the dealership with you :)
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    i have stooped to their level. thats what it takes to get a great deal. my soul is still clean. lemme check. . .
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    when I bought my parents volvo, it took a while even though i went through the internet and phone call method. It was a weekend, F&I guys were all busy. They had to take options off the car even though I told them beforehand that I didn't want any of it. Then I had to wait for the carwash and gas fillup because it was only 3/4 full. Oh then I asked for those plastic floor covers. The service guy had to cut it out and then put it into the car. I'm high maintenance I guess. so last time it took about 2.5 hours. I figure I'll schedule 4 hours.
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    I wouldn't recommend delivery to your home or office. I guess you could still do the final inspection of the car at your home before you sign the sales contract.
    When my dad was looking for a Honda Accord (ended up getting a Volvo V70), we did the final inspection and noticed a little scratch (2 inches). They said they could buff it up and then my dad said he didn't want to buy a scratched car. They went at it and my dad ended up cancelling the check.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    He brought the trade in previously but we finished everything else up over the phone a couple of days later.

    I did do a deal this past saturday where I had never seen the trade and she had never seen her car either.

    I HATE doing that but she refused to come up and do anything in person. She only wanted to make one trip to the dealership.

    I don't know about you but if I was going to spend 40,000 dollars I would find one day where I can make a two hour one way trip to the dealership to inspect the car first.

    So of course the delivery was tense and she was not 100% happy with the condition of the car and I was not a 100% happy with the trade. All of that could have been avoided if she had just come in ahead of time. We are open six days a week for a total of 62 hours and she couldn't find half a day to come down and look at the car first. :confuse:
  • 98camryv698camryv6 Member Posts: 37
    you know i will admit i have this mentality that all car salesman are coniving and crooks. I guess thats the way I approach the negotiations. But alot of times, they are friendly and very accomodating people. Even then, I'm still sceptical. I just hope one day everyone can be straight forward. What really ticks me off is when they say they don't have the car then I say I have a quote from another dealership and all of a sudden they say "oh wait, i found it." That happens ALOT and when that happens I start to play the game too.
  • jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    I don't know about you but if I was going to spend 40,000 dollars I would find one day where I can make a two hour one way trip to the dealership to inspect the car first.

    I'm with ya. When I buy a pair of socks for $1.95, I look at them first. :D

    We are open six days a week for a total of 62 hours and she couldn't find half a day to come down and look at the car first.

    Some people are very important and extremely busy. Selling high end cars like you do, I'm sure you've met a lot of important people. ;)

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh yeah supper dupper important even.

    CEOs of fortune 500 companies, pro athletes, two of the three founders or RPS, so on and so forth.

    They all found time in their busy lives to inspect the cars ahead of time. :surprise:
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Actually, I have found that most of those people take more time. Also, the vast majority are the nicest people to work with.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Exactly that is what I meant. Their time truly is very, very valuable but all of them were great to work with.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    P.S. Most of them didn't grind the best price out of you.
  • lrguy44lrguy44 Member Posts: 2,197
    Actually, most of them negotiate without grinding and wind up with better deals than grinders. They also make valued repeat customers. In addition, they value our product knowledge.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    LOL
  • mxtramxtra Member Posts: 12
    I negotiated a price via email for a Mazda 3 that's only $150 above invoice but comes with free liftime oil/filter changes. Now I can't seem to get a loan. I haven't officially applied yet but I'm between jobs at the moment. I've never gotten a loan before but I assumed they would just call my current employer to verify I'm employed and how much I make. I just finished my two weeks at my last job and will start my new job on Thursday. So I don't have a paystub from my current job. In fact, they pay every two weeks so it'll be a while before I get a paycheck for a full 80 hours. CapitalOne Auto said they need a paystub and will not call. Am I stuck until I get that paystub?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Ya, seeing this is your first loan they will probably want proof of your job.

    Some banks will accept an "Intent To Hire" letter stating your start date and your annual salary. The letter has to be on company letter head signed by a supervisor, or HR person.

    I use these allot with College Grads on Fords College Grad Program.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,403
    Cheat! Send them the last pay stub from the old job, and see if they notice.

    Although seriously, you can get a loan based on the formal job offer.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • mxtramxtra Member Posts: 12
    um, my fico scores are actually better than I realized. i went to myfico.com and paid to see what they are. they are in the 686-694 range. not great, but I was suprised how close to 700 I am. do you think that would be high enough to qualify for the promotional 1.9% financing though Mazda? if not, something decent like 5-6%?
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    they are in the 686-694 range. not great,

    Since when are 680's not a good score.

    Hey if all the people actually had 700 scores that say they do there would be no secondary financing.

    As long as your Debt and payment to income are in line and the whole job thing don't bite you in the [non-permissible content removed] you should be fine.
  • shoparoundshoparound Member Posts: 47
    my buddy at a sacramento highline store told me there is no difference between internet and traditional sales. of course i don't believe him. he says i am a dinosaur believing that the best deals are internet, they aren't!!! according to him. But he says people are shopping around everywhere... from far away, using the phone to call dealers 50-100 or more miles away for price quotes. They're killing him, too many dealers AND too many sales ops. He is getting online purchase requests that flat out ask for best price (of course he gives it because he has nothing to loose and might steal a deal). So we've come full circle. Internet hasn't changed a thing. Gross are up on in demand cars, nothing unusual there, but grosses are way down on basic transportation... internet sale or traditional. my buddy says he goes all out to match or beat a local deal...
  • speelurkerspeelurker Member Posts: 1
    I live in Dallas, Texas, and had decided I would like to own a Nissan Murano. On Wednesday, June 20, 2007, I performed a search at http://www.cars.com for a used 2007 Murano. I found a listing for one with no price at:

    Southwest Lincoln-Mercury
    10025 Southwest Freeway
    Houston, TX 77074
    713-981-3586
    888-891-7709
    http://www.swlincolnmercury.com/

    I found the same vehicle listed on their website and used their website to contact them. I asked for a quote on the vehicle.

    The next day (Thursday) around noon, I called the dealership, since I had not seen a reply. I talked to their Internet salesman, and he informed me that he had indeed replied. I found the emails in my spam folder, and we proceeded to discuss the vehicle.

    I was told the vehicle was only available under a contingent sales contract, as the previous owner was using it as a trade-in and had not yet taken possession of their new vehicle. That transaction was scheduled to be completed on Monday, June 25th, and the Murano could then be bought on that day.

    We discussed the vehicle more, and I was quoted a price. We then discussed the logistics of how a sale would work given the contingent situation and that I was in Dallas and the dealership was in Houston. We then began to discuss the need to put a deposit down to hold the vehicle until Saturday, June 23rd, which was the soonest I could get to Houston to see and test-drive the vehicle. I agreed to provide a deposit. The salesman said that they would have to work on pricing paperwork and would follow up with me on the deposit.

    The salesman called me a couple of hours later and told me that, since the transaction on the Murano had not been completed, they could not accept a deposit on it. However, they assured me I was "first in line" to purchase it.

    On Friday, the salesman called to confirm my visit at the dealership on Saturday. I told the salesman that I would probably be arriving around 1:30PM and received assurances that I was still first in line for the vehicle.

    Saturday morning, June 23rd, I left Dallas at 10AM, headed for Houston. At 12:30PM, while in transit, the Internet salesman called me and said the Murano was "being shown." I told the salesman I was still about an hour away from the dealership. The salesman assured me that I was "first in line" for the vehicle.

    At 1:30PM, the salesman called again and said the vehicle had been sold by another salesman. They had just signed a contingent sales contract with another buyer.

    At 2:00PM I arrived at the dealership. I voiced my concerns to both salesmen. I was told that they were just doing as they were told. I complained about the waste of my time and gas. The initial salesman I worked with apologized and gave me $40 as compensation for gas.

    After wasting 10 hours of my life and 600 miles on my wife's car, I'm right back where I started.

    This happened to me at Southwest Lincoln-Mercury in Houston. Buyer beware.

    David in Dallas
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    since the transaction on the Murano had not been completed, they could not accept a deposit on it.

    Nonsense! It sounds like they were holding out for a higher price and were stringing you along as Plan B.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Don't ever do that again! :)
  • geffengeffen Member Posts: 278
    I guess i'm confused as to why they would advertise someones trade in that they don't really have a deal closed on, wouldn't that be considered false advertising? if i'm reading that correctly? Also if they said you were first in line to test drive the Murano they should've held it for you and accepted your deposit or at least when you arrived and it was sold they should've checked to see if they could find another Murano for you I would think they have sister dealerships they can pull cars from.

    This is the very reason I like to talk to the salesmen via email and on the phone also I go in and check their inventory in person sometimes its not always accurate or they have inventory that is not listed on the website yet or the website is just outdated when the cars have sold weeks ago.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    I have never understood why people in one large metro area feel a need to run 250 miles away to an equally large city to buy a car sight unseen.

    On the other hand, if I was the dealer, I wouldn't hold the car in the hope that someone might show up.
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