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Man this guy reminds me of someone else but I can't exactly put my finger on who...
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Replying to: dave_h2 (Apr 27, 2007 8:56 am)
I gotta admit. This is kind of a funny dilemma your putting yourself in. You ask for help from people who would know best (those in the car industry) and yet make underhanded insults to them in the same breath.
I would actually prefer answer from the other side. The buyers with experience. I don't need another saleperson attempting to "wear me down" or blind me with shiny objects and bs about how other car companies "are crap" but the one they are selling is "the greatest thing since slided bread".
Good luck out there. Just trying to show both sides.
-Moo
P.S. To answer your question, it doesn't sound like a bad deal, but there are much more aggressive leases out there. Check out a Murano. You may be surprised by how much vehicle you can get for the same payment. Don't worry about "everything else rolled into payments". All that means is any profit and taxes needing to be paid are included.
FYI, if you lease through Nissan Motor, there is no security deposit, GAP insurance is included and the mileage overage fee is .15/mile. No crazy turn in fees at the end. Just a very straightforward lease. It sounds like the leasing company you are using may not be as aggressive.
Thanks madmanmoo – this is very useful information. I've shied away from the Murano because it required premium gas only. Aren't regular gas prices bad enough?
Maybe I'll look at a Pathfinder or X-Terra.
1890 of 1897 Re: New numbers [madmanmoo] by kirstie_h HOST Apr 27, 2007 (9:33 am)
It's not always a combat - the salespeople who frequent these discussions don't get anything (business or otherwise) for offering advice, and you are welcome to disregard it if you don't like it. From their perspective, a truly informed customer is often a better customer, because they don't come in with expectations that can't be met, and they usually know what they want, and know a good deal when they spot it.
Well defended, kirstie. You do take advertising on this site, don’t you? “Its not always combat”? Oh, I think it is.
#1891 of 1897 Re: New numbers [kirstie_h] by lrguy44 Apr 27, 2007 (10:12 am)
Replying to: kirstie_h (Apr 27, 2007 9:33 am)
to clarify, taxes on a lease are based on the monthly payment. If the payment is $500 per mo., and the local tax basis is 5%, the total payment is $525. Customers should make sure taxes are included in the quote.
Thanks. That was almost helpful. (if a bit obvious)
#1896 of 1897 Re: New numbers [dave_h2] by gasman1 Apr 27, 2007 (11:17 am)
Replying to: dave_h2 (Apr 27, 2007 8:56 am)
The answer to your good deal on a lease question could be found (at least asked) in the Leases discussion. You may have better results with a kinder-gentler approach.
I’ve been in the lease discussion threads. The one for the Santa Fe has tumbleweeds blowing through it. Apparently car_man & kyfdx have better things to do than answer my questions. I’ll try again, but I’d appreciate not being ignored.
Again, apologies if I’ve insulted the very noble profession of “car sales”. Let me ask all of these salespeople here this – are you giving the same deals to the little old lady who doesn’t have a clue? Hmmmmmm.
Dave,
Doesn't this tell you anything? That lease may not be that attractive.
You can solicit advice all you want from the layman who purchases cars. I'm not sure you'll get very accurate information, but you're welcome to pursue the car deal anyway you want.
Good luck.
-Moo
Okay... back to your regularly scheduled program..
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-Moo
Doesn't this tell you anything? That lease may not be that attractive.
You're probably right. The lack of activity does indicate a lack of interest. (It still doesn't explain why that forums "host" doesn't provide the current data - hey - no pressure man - when you can find the time to get to it)
You can solicit advice all you want from the layman who purchases cars. I'm not sure you'll get very accurate information
What is "inaccurate" about real life experiences? I leased at this [deal numbers] Pretty simple, actually. Minus the sales pitch.
Re: Responses [madmanmoo] by kyfdx HOST Apr 27, 2007 (12:19 pm)
Replying to: madmanmoo (Apr 27, 2007 12:16 pm)
Hey now!! The Lease Questions discussions are answered by a professional in the business.. Those residuals and money factors are correct..
I would love to see them
Okay... back to your regularly scheduled program..
Which is - what? Making sure all the car dealers who frequent here are happy? (Just askin' . . . )
#1901 of 1901 Re: Responses [kyfdx] by madmanmoo Apr 27, 2007 (12:21 pm)
Replying to: kyfdx (Apr 27, 2007 12:19 pm)
I'm, of course, referring to the lack of interest in leasing a Santa Fe. I'm not insinuating that the professional answering the questions isn't qualified.
Has the time to get a questions answered passed?
No. The "regularly scheduled program" here is to discuss internet versus traditional car buying. And, incidentally, the regularly scheduled program does NOT include making a habit of taking potshots at salespeople - or customers. Let's stick with the topic.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Thing is, when buying a car, you have two people, each working to get themselves the best deal. That can be a bit contentious at times but if both sides tend to be reasonable, then they end up meeting at a point that both find satisfactory. So long as there's honesty on both sides anyway (there ARE crooked car salesmen out there, just like there's crooked anything-elses).
The real questions relate to whether internet buying has any advantage over traditional buying. Posturing on unrelated issues is not helpful.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
(That's not to say that all hosts are not subject matter experts; some indeed are and they contribute their knowledge as they are able... not by requirement.)
It's been my experience that when someone seems to have a chip on his/her shoulder, most members aren't so interested in helping. I think if you would lighten up, you might be more likely to get some help. We really are all friends here and we have always welcomed those who are interested in a respectful conversation.
Pat
Sedans and Roving Host
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
If I was burned once I would do a lot more listening and less talking at least until I KNEW what I was talking about and not just thinking I now know it all.
I’m sure there are some out there that will disagree with me but I am just saying what it looks like to me.
Live and learn,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I think some people go through life believing that any unhappiness they suffer is always someone else's fault.
All they do is complain and complain, and then they die.
Absolutely!
And as to your second observation, one hopes that it will be sooner rather than later.
That's a bit harsh wishing a premature death on someone
isn't it? Hope you're not armed.
I can see though why dave may be a bit frustrated. He posts a simple question about a price on a SUV, and the responses he gets deal with everything but his price question.
The man drives the superior Mazda MPV for corns sake... give him the respect he deserves.
Apologies, for sure.
My point had to do with the numerous people I run into with the "everything is someone else's fault" philosophy. I value personal responsibility and those who accept it.
The people who can give the most information regarding lease values/residuals, etc are the salespeople here who deal specifically with hyundai. but dave's less than friendly approach to those on the other side of the desk who frequent here will get him no answers.
that's too bad, because this place can be very informative - unless you disrespect those who live here
-thene :sick:
Lease is useful only if you get a tax write-off (driving around for business purposes). Otherwise, you buy the car at MSRP, pay taxes on the full price, pay for the depreciation, and own nothing at the end of the term. If you decide to keep the vehicle, you pay taxes twice on the same car. Supposedly that is the law!
Deceptive ads - In February, BMW was offering $369/mo for a $38,600 X3. I went to lease one, through their Internet Sales Manager. We targeted a better equipped vehicle (List $46,200), and I was expecting to pay about $465/mo, down payment also increasing proportionally. I bit the "Come down to the dealership for a test drive" bait and had an offer of $750/mo. They wouldn't give me a break-up, giving "the computer does all the calculations" crap. I turned it down, told the Sales people how their ad is deceptive, offered $500/mo (they rejected) and walked out, after test driving 2 of their cars and wasting 2 hours of everybody's time. (Does that count as the bobst method)?
The TTL sink: I wish they had a simple math somewhere on their web - For a lease, you pay MSRP; if the depreciation is X% and your state sales tax is Y%, the effective sales tax for a lease is 100*Y/X. In perspective - for a 16.67% depreciation, the sales tax goes up 6-fold. Personally, I didn't want to pay so much in taxes.
The sales lady kept calling, and I made her another offer (this is a question to the forum - is this a valid/wise transaction/offer?) - "I will pay you the depreciation $D in full + tax on 100% value of the car + title fees today, drive out the car, and return it to you after 24 months or 30,000 miles, whichever comes earlier. No monthly payments, no additional charges for anything. I am agreeable to a fully refundable security deposit, refundable at the end of the term. I will bring in the car every 5,000 miles for BMW maintenance at no charge to me". They didn't agree, and asked for a much larger sum, about 60% more. I figured that was the true cost of the lease, and exorbitant. I said, "Since we differ so much, I don't think we can do business". After a couple of more calls, the saga ended.
Then I found Edmunds!
I like the forums, and thanks for letting me blabber. Best wishes, - MS.
That is not true - during the course of the lease, you pay taxes on the monthly payment. If you purchase the car at the end of the lease you pay taxes on the purchase price.
A one pay lease will provide a slightly better money factor, and is a good alternative to a cash buyer who trades every 2-3 years.
Lease adds are based on a basic unit without taxes, acquisition fee or D&H. Read the small print. Add these costs plus extra equipment and the final figure is dramatically different. The federal government dictates the disclosures that must accompany a print, radio or TV ad - again, it is in the small print.
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Pennsylvania taxes the payment, but at a 3% higher rate.
Some states tax only the depreciation.. others tax the payment, but collect it all upfront (NY, OH)
Most (and the best way for the buyer) tax the monthly payment, and collect it each month.
regards,
kyfdx
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The question: How do you counter snide remarks like "Test drives do not pay our bills, you know (Toyota)" or "We need to make a sale, or test drives are no good (Saturn)", or (in a loud voice, to an out of sight SM) "Mr. TestDriver cannot make up his mind what to buy (Mazda)"? I try to be polite, and understand (1)they are there to sell cars, (2) I am using up their time, and may not be buying from them. However, the manufacturers do not leave me any other way to check their cars out. Should I just pay the sales person some money for letting me test drive? What do you pro's think?
One more question - on politeness. The Honda guy (no offense to isellhondas) kept pestering me on the phone for days for a sale. After being polite for a few times ("I may not want to buy that model, don't really like it"), I snapped, "I am not interested in your good deal or your Pilot, please do not call me again". The guy was very upset, "You are telling me this after all the time I spent for you? This is not fair"! The question again - should I have paid the guy for his time?
Thanks for all your advices to novices like myself (and others). We do appreciate it. Best wishes, - MS.
It actually sounds like some may have been trying to intimidate you into purchasing only because they perceived your honesty and politeness as a weakness. It's your call, but these are the people least deserving of your business.
YOu don't have to pay MSRP on a lease you can negotiate a discount off the full list price of the car. The up front discount you might get no a lease will probably be less then a cash or traditional finance deal though because of how the incentives are built into the leasing program.
Bought two new cars in the last couple years and had nothing like you describe happen. When I sort of apologized for taking up their time, I had one guy say that these test drives, when someone is in the early stages and "just looking" are part of their job too. Another thanked us for getting her out because otherwise she was having to make calls to people who don't want to buy a car. Another guy was glad to get out of a meeting.
Many times the sales person did not go with.
Good, now I feel better. Missed the auto show - never really keep a good track of these (I thought it was in New York last month). Actually, my shopping is not on a very wide swath - went for BMW X3 'cause I couldn't afford the X5. After that experience, I thought I will get a C/SUV with a 3rd row seat and have been consistently looking at price range $40K +/- 5%. Saturn Outlook XR fits what I looked for, but configured the way I want it, it is close to $40K.
Right now a 2007 Acura MDX is at the top of my shopping list, just waiting for some of the 2008 models to come out (Buick Enclave, Subaru Tribeca and Toyota Highlander) to do a comparison. Good thing I am not in a hurry to buy. I might buy the MDX this month if I get a good deal. I am fixing to using the "bobst method" close to the end of this month (with all the dealers in the metroplex sequentially, but starting with the guy who showed me the vehicle). Not sure if/how to bring in the internet, if I should target dealers in other big cities/out of state - still gathering info from this forum and pondering.... "jipster method"? "shoparound method"?
Lets see how it goes. Y'all can see this forum has been very helpful to me. Best regards, - MS.
You must be a very nice person. I think that is a very nice and noble thing to offer, but completely unnecessary. You have met a couple of very hungry and inexperienced sales guys.
Following up with a potential customer is great. Berating them for not buying from you is greenpea stuff. If I had a 100% closing ratio, then I would be a very wealthy man. The reality of it is, I sell about 25-35% of the people that I meet with. 40% on a particularly good month. That's just the breaks. I make good money and don't begrudge people who don't purchase from me. I can't win them all.
I don't think you need to change anything you're doing. If you like a particular brand, then please use the salesperson who helped you out, otherwards, I think you're doing great.
-Moo
That's one of the main reasons I finance using my own bank instead. They're stuck telling me the actual selling price instead of hiding it in a monthly payment. Not much in the way of leases available in New York State, and the ones that exist cost enough that one may as well just finance for 6 or 7 years.
Now, once I solicited quotes, that was a whole different story. Once I got my price, I ignored everyone else. About half just sent me one email or call. Some were more persistent. I gave those salespeople a quick but polite "Thanks, but I've already purchased." One guy even called today, nearly 2 weeks after my call for quotes... AND past the end of the month. Maybe he really needs the sale.
I say, don't feel bad about test driving, it's part of the process. You can't know what car you want unless you get your butt in them.
Loki
How to handle snide remarks? Quick retorts such as, "Yo mammy!"
But seriously, something along the lines of "If you can't speak to me in a respectful manner I can take my business elsewhere" Or, when they say something stupid just walk to your car and go to a dealership more customer oriented.
But, don't worry about telling a salesperson "NO"... they are big boys and girls and can handle it. I think they would prefer a definite answer on a car so they can move on, as opposed to a maybe in which they have to make repeated calls.
Oh, I definitely would not pay for a test drive. That's their job.
Yeah, that's what I would do... the jipster method. :shades:
Be sure to consult with Bobst who can provide tips on getting a patent for the method!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
That's for sure.
I learned years ago: The " BIG print gives it to you and the little print takes it away" !!!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
my two cents at least...
-thene
Yes, that is exactly what it means.
To get their 'best deal' it takes more effort and some luck as well.
Most people are only looking for a decent price. If you want their 'best deal', then you have some serious work cut out for you.
If not take a couple hours out of your day and head to the dealership.