By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
discounting as you have described...
I will second the request for the name of the Dealer...I would be happy to pay $400 over myself...I might even buy 5...
Here's a translated version of a European website with a "VW Taro" pickup which looks like a Toyota Tacoma with a VW badge on it:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http
And here's a more bizarre combination:
Toyota builds a tiny 1.4 liter diesel engine for their "Yaris" model in Europe. They cut a deal to sell engines to BMW for the new mini.
So much for British content in the diesel Austin Mini!
Either you have very long legs for your 5'11", your son is a 7 year old giant or the electric, adjustable steering column was set all the way out causing you to move your seat way back. I'm 6'0" and have been driving my Touareg for a week now. There is enough room for me in the rear seat behind the driver's seat in the position I use it. And I don't sit particularly close to the steering wheel either, just arms length away.
But the car does only seat 5. No third row and we don't need or want one.
The dash and leather on the car is much nicer than my old ML430 but I have the Premium Plus option on the V8 model so it has Nappa leather. The Cricket leather (the first optional leather) is also better than the leather in my old ML430.
I would guess the inflatable spare is actually lighter than a full size spare. I've removed mine for inspection and it wasn't very hard. Inflating it shouldn't be such a big deal either using the supplied air compressor or the air suspension as I have to do with the air suspension option.
Overall, the Touareg is the BEST riding vehicle I've ever driven. 80 to 90 mph on the highway seemed like an unstressed cruising speed. If you want a smooth ride, set the air suspension to COMFORT. If you want a firm ride for harder cornering, set the air suspension for SPORT, or just set it on AUTO and let the car do the thinking.
For those interested in one of the remaining T-Regs (not in CA, btw, but VA) you need to send me an email (I don't want to deluge my friends at the dealership with calls from all over - also, they've already had complaints from a dealership across town that they were selling them too low and spoiling the game for others). As of this morning, they still had 6 or 7 left, but only one or two of them are V8s, I think. Also, these first ten are the only ones getting this discount - after that the price will be based on market demand (meaning around MSRP).
My dealer even made up the difference between 3.75 and 3.99 when I didn't quite qualify for the top rate VW offers for 60 months. Really a top of the line dealership, so email me if you are seriously interested and I'll provide all details.
These are fantastic SUVs!
(remove nospam from address: k4iqnospam@att.net)
I'm not sure what that horse is feeling staring at the truck?
Steve, Host
They are both (VW vs. Infiniti) expensive vehicles with features nobody really "needs" (unless you tow). The VW is a better-built luxury vehicle than anything from Cadillac, and the FX45 will out-run most Corvettes except those of very recent vintage ... its a strange world. And, of course, the Porsche does everything that the others do ... for almost the combined price.
So its really a discretionary purchase, and there are lots of nice vehicles to choose from.
What we need is a club where you pay in your $40k in a group of 25 people that collectively own $1 million worth of sports/luxury/off-road vehicles.
Then you wouldn't have to decide!
digging....
Ah, here you go: Exotic Car Country Club
Steve, Host
the ad says "luxury suv". Yeah, whatever. Do not get me wrong, VW makes some great cars and now a pretty good looking SUV, but "luxury"? I would be willing to bet that if you asked ten people on the street to list three luxury car brands, not a one would mention VW. One thing luxury about the toureg is the price. For a V6 with premium pkg I can get a RX330, Acura MDX (which seats 7), or an XC90, for the V8 price I can get an X5.
Again I am not knocking the toureg or VW. I seriously considered a passat for my last car purchase. But I think VW priced the toureg way too high. If this suv were in the 27K to 33K range it would be awesome. I just think there is too much established and very good competition at the 38K to 45K price point. If I were looking for a SUV I would probably look at a toureg, but when the pricing came down to it, I think I would go for a RX330 or XC90.
Have you looked at the Touareg in person? If not, do yourself a favor and go to a VW Dealer to actually test drive the Touareg. Then go the your BMW, Acura and Lexus dealers to do the same.
I think that you'll find the VW to be very competitive with all of them. It wasn't meant to compete with the Pilot / Highlander / Endeavor / Sorrento / Sportage / Santa Fe / Trailblazer / Forester / Escape / Xterra / Murano's...And you thought there was too much competition in the Luxury SUV range? ;-)
This is a publication that drives many more times the number of vehicles probably than any of us that write our thoughts here on Edmunds.
Now, I don't know a whole lot about the Touareg -- my dealer wouldn't let me drive his inventory -- it was already pre-sold. But, the interior is well appointed, styling is always subjective, but I like it and I agree with Car and Driver -- it is a bargain.
I would, perhaps, not place VW in the LUX category (until I read about the transparent factory or the Phaeaton or the Touareg) -- I would have put in in the "almost an Audi" category -- which means sporting and high value.
When I keep reading the posts here about the Touareg being too expensive and then re reading C&D's review (coupled with my brief stint behind the wheel -- not driving, just sitting) I agree with Car and Driver and wonder if all these negative posts aren't "plants" from the competition?
Uh, no offense.
Maybe they should rename the Touareg "Cayenne-Lite" Then people would perhaps understand what they are getting for around 40K.
I spent a lot of time comparing the T-reg with the XC90, and I have ordered the T-reg. I don't care about the status of the nameplate, and the VW is a great looking and performing vehicle. Volvo did a great job with the XC90, but I think they forgot about the interior - very bland.
Kendux: You should look at the XC90. storage in back is very comparable to the explorer and definitely larger than the T-reg, Infiniti, or Lexus.
>the ad says "luxury suv". Yeah, whatever. Do not get me wrong, VW makes some great cars and now a pretty good looking SUV, but "luxury"? I would be willing to bet that if you asked ten people on the street to list three luxury car brands, not a one would mention VW. One thing luxury about the toureg is the price. For a V6 with premium pkg I can get a RX330, Acura MDX (which seats 7), or an XC90, for the V8 price I can get an X5.
Your statement is a little puzzling, here is my take on luxury and utilitarian, a luxury vehicle is well appointed, loaded with conveniences that are not necessary to perform the basic purpose of transportation or haulage, effort is made to quiet the environ, effort is made on good handling etiquette, more power than necessary also pleasing on aesthetics in and out and better grade materials for the appointments.
If I sat in a RX330 or similar I will not find anything that is so great as to make an overwhelming difference, different styles yes, one offers something that the other don’t because of marquee philosophies but other than that the Touareg is well within the accepted norm of luxury.
Some have argued that they don’t care about the ability of the Touareg to pull heavy loads, well that in itself is a luxury and a very practical one, maybe today is of no consequence to a prospective buyer or new owner but you can never tell the future, maybe in two or thee years from now he may decide to buy a boat or a camper or a trailer and haul something or a horse trailer or who knows what and all of a sudden he finds that option a valuable asset. To build in the capacity of heavy towing costs money, it takes a lot of engineering and purpose build components, I rather have that option built into my vehicle and pay for it than paying for some satellite gismo just to use as an example, mostly for entertaining value.
I summed it up like this; Is better to have and not need than need and not have.
A few months ago I went to a lexus event that allowed you to drive each lexus suv and their major competition. This included, bmw, acura, volvo, lincoln, cadillac, MB, and LR. It was great to be able to test drive all of these with no salemen around back to back and they even had an off road course you could go on. So i have driven and been around most of the competition in the 35K to 70K suv market.
As I stated above I am not trying to be demeaning to the toureg or any of its owners. From appearances it looks to be a great suv. I just do not consider VW a "luxury" brand. Just as I do not see paying 40K for a Ford suv. I have seen other posts on this thread that agree with me. I have seen comments about 50K for a VW being hard to swallow. I agree with those posts.
I agree that VW is probably marketing the toureg toward more upscale buyers, but that is where I think they are wrong. I recently saw an auto history show about VW and it talked about where they had succeeded so well was with the beetle and the rabbit, in the US. These were definately not marketed as luxury cars. But they sold in the millions. If VW can compete in the already overcrowded luxury suv market, more power to them. IMHO they would have done better by offering a reliable, catchy suv in a lower price bracket. C5lover brings up a good point about "cayene-lite". I am sure from that perspective the toureg is a great deal. But it is kinda like coming home with a Ferrari and saying "but it was half price dear".
In a side by side comparison I am sure the Toureg can hold its own on features and specs with other luxury marques.
But we are also dealing with human perception and fickleness here. A good example is the camry and the es300. Using the camry xle with some options, they are pretty close to the same car, specs and features wise. The es300 has a few more features and the V6 std. The camry is the better value at a much lower price point. But would most people rather tell their friends " I drive a Camry, or I drive a Lexus."? If you tell someone you drive a VW, they are probably going to think of the Beetle before they think of comparing your VW to a MB 500 or a BMW 5 series. That is all that I was trying to say.
My Quantum had a 5 cylinder engine and front and rear independent suspension -- it was in many ways like an Audi 4000S -- but the Audi only had a 4 cylinder engine (i.e., it was by one measure at least -- more luxurious).
My wife's first VW was an early model Jetta Coupe that the dealer had put aftermarket wheels and aftermarket sound system into -- this was both sporting and (at the time) luxurious (we always thought is was kinda cool that it had solid valve lifters -- like Porsche's had).
My image of VW -- as I noted earlier -- has always been Audi lite. My image of Audi has been sportiness in the "near luxury" class. By associattion then, I suspect that means I perceive VW's as high value sporting and almost near luxury marquis.
By comparison, not to demean or criticize, my perception is that Toyota's (to pick just one Japanese brand) are cheap (as in inexpensive) economy cars -- and nothing that they have done has ever erase this perception.
In our parking lot is a late model (2001 or newer) Avalon -- it is a very nice car. It is about the quietest car I have ever been in; and, quiet is to me a luxury feature -- but the car reminds me of the lobby of a Holiday Inn -- clean, functional and bland. The performance (I have only ridden in it) is not bad -- but it is like sitting on my La-Z-Boy Leather couch (again not meant to criticize -- I like my couch, actually).
The VW's (and German cars in particular and European cars in general) seem to be of higher quality somehow.
The way the door of a Passat closes with a solid substantail sound -- the Avalon doors seem tinny by comparison. The suspension of any VW I've ever been in in recent years is firm, compliant and indicates a solid feel that reminds me every bit of a Mercedes, Audi or BMW's solidity.
By the same token, I say OK, Toyota makes Lexus and I think "Leuxus it's just a Toyota that knows Somebody -- no big deal."
When I think of VW as Audi-lite or Audi-like I think it is a big deal.
I am not saying my perception is the market's perception -- from what I can tell, Toyota and Lexus can sell as many cars as they can stamp out. They just don't impress me as being a Luxury Marquis -- even though I KNOW that Lexus has gained such a reputation.
I am only saying that I already thought of VW -- the company -- not necessarily its dealer body -- as already being more than half-way up the luxury ladder, so I can see the Touareg as a lux-oriented SUV and agree with Car & Driver when they name it the Best Luxury SUV of the year.
You have a perception of VW that must be that it is an economy car company and "who are they kidding" bringing out a $50K vehicle -- the Emperor has no clothes."
My perception of VW allows, nay encourages me to consider that they already are somewhat upscale so the logical next step is to keep on moving up.
It is just another perception. . .
Drive one, you'll see!
But let the vehicle stand on its own two feet (four wheels?), don't buy it because it's a relative of the Porsche. Perspective Porsche buyers can turn that one around and say "I'm not buying the Cayenne, it's really only a VW". I'm not into labels but I was surprised how many people I overheard at VW dealerships commenting that they were impressed it was a relative of the Cayenne. With Porsche's history being a relative may be detrimental.
My friend bought an Avalon rather than a Lexus trying to save a few dollars and saying "I'm really getting a Lexus" He's kicking his but now the way the Toyota has depreciated quickly and the Lexus held its value. He figures he would have been better (economically)off had he of purchased a Lexus.
The Touareg is a blast to drive but doesn't offer the room or utility I was looking for.
Let's ask, what defines a "luxury" vehicle? I believe it is three things 1) quality, reliabiity and features must be very high, 2) price must be high to keep it keep sales down in order to create cache (and allow dealer to sell at MSRP and improve residual) and 3) manufacturer must be regarded as a luxury brand (important for service also). The Touareg (at least initially) scores at the top in point #1 - the interior in particular is by far the most luxurious on the market. Point #2, the price is high and they won't sell many, although this may not be what they intended. Point #3 is where they miss the boat completely and is the reason why I passed. Just can't pay $42K (the V8) for a VW, but would have been happy to pay $37K-$38K (i.e., above the Murano/Pilot, but below the MDX/Volvo/RX330).
You could apply this assessment to the competition, for example the XC90 is OK on quality, has a high price and is a near-luxury name, so one MAY be able to argue that it is a luxury vehicle and worthy of the price. I personally do not think so, but the point is at least debatable. The MDX scores well on all 3 tests (and my wife has one) and I see that as a clear answer, although I can see why some might find it a little drab.
The Touareg is an impressive vehicle and VW should get a lot of credit for turning out such an capable vehicle. It is just priced wrong.
(Note: Remains to be seen how the vehicle reliability holds up and whether the VW dealers will give the requisite level of service to owners.)
As far as the Cayenne comparison, it is valid. Crawl underneath (I did) and notice the suspension, the 6 pot front Brembo brakes, etc., and you realize that, aside from the powerplant and some cosmetics (some of which are clearly in VW's favor, imo) these cars chassis are basically the same.
I'll take being compared to Porsche anyday over, say, being compared to Lexus or Infiniti. Totally different breeding.
Anyway, it's clear not everyone is going to think the same way about it, and that's fine - that's why there are lots of choices. For one thing, the rear seat room and storage may not fit everyone, but it fits us to a T.
So, color us extremely happy with our T-Reg/Cayenne lite.
For those who "know" about VW, the Touareg is a great buy ... the best all-around SUV, but you can park it in "the wrong part of town" without getting keyed. I'd like to keep it a secret!
And for those who don't know VW, they can spend over $10k MORE for the same rig (from the same factory) with slightly different sheetmetal, and a Porsche engine and badge. (the difference between Cayenne and Touareg is like Mercury and Ford)
Everyone wins (especially VW, who build and profit from every Cayenne sold).
ohiosuv..great post. I agree with you 100%.
feliz..i have to disagree with you about the toyota/lexus comparison. For me the toyota was the much better buy. The lexus may hold value a little better than the toyota, but after 5 to 7 years is it that big of a difference? Plus you have to factor in the upfront savings plus intere
st for those driving years.
I agree with what others have said that luxury can mean different things to different people. I also agree that reliability is an important part of this perception. Mark, while I agree that when toyota and honda first came out they were percieved as cheap transport. But that was decades ago. They have improved and exceeded most european brand quality and reliability. The numbers speak for themsleves. There are an awful lot of toyota and honda buyers in the US. If you go over to some of the smart shopper boards, you will see from some of the posts from salemen and other car pros that european luxury brands seem to be unreliable and expensive to maintain. One talks of a MB that had the nav system changed 7 times. And numerous electrical problems with many brands. They speak of BMW and Jag having to be pampered and properly maintained. $200 oil changes, no thank you.
And this from a smart shopper thread
"5601 of 5608 Nissan by perna Jul 31, 2003 (3:04 pm)
I didn't buy my Maxima for the mythical "Japanese Quality" (my GMs have all been bulletproof, thanks), but I was astonished when the F&I guy didn't even offer me an extended warranty (the dealer also sells Mits and VW). I asked, and he said, "well, if you want it I will gladly sell it to you, but it would be a waste of money. I don't generally bother my Nissan customers with that. Now if you were buying a Volkswagen..."
Again i am not knocking VW or the toureg. Just some different views to think about.
VW is backing their Cayenne-lite with a good warranty.
I didn't buy my Maxima for the mythical "Japanese Quality" (my GMs have all been bulletproof, thanks), but I was astonished when the F&I guy didn't even offer me an extended warranty (the dealer also sells Mits and VW). I asked, and he said, "well, if you want it I will gladly sell it to you, but it would be a waste of money. I don't generally bother my Nissan customers with that. Now if you were buying a Volkswagen..."
masspector
I don't want you to think I'm picking on you ;-), but I think the F&I guy a full of it. Extended warranties often represent easy money to dealers, which is why they generally offer it. It's like 'undercoating' or 'paint protection'.
The cost of warranties vary depending upon the expected reliability of a given car. For example, the extended warranty on our Nissan Pathfinder cost less than that on our VW Jetta (although the VW warranty has a $0 deductible compared to $50 for the Nissan). So far, both of the warranties have paid for themselves. Neither car is what I would consider 'unreliable', but both have had mechanical issues.
mml--no offense taken, and you bring up some good points. I have toyed with maybe making a "european luxury" brand purchase in the future, but after hearing the horror stories on edmunds, I think i will stick with more reliable makes. It appears that they break more often, and when they break they cost alot to repair.
In my little impromtu study, I have so far asked 4 people at work to name 5 luxury auto brands. So far no one has even come close to mentioning VW.
You guys have a great day.
VW is trying to break into the luxury market with their Phaeton and the Touareg. Don't you think that they will need to work real hard to do that. It is to the customer's advantage that they don't have their noses in the air like BMW, MB, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, and the list goes on.
I also think VW is buying their way into the market too, which is to the customer's advantage. The Touareg I bought had an MSRP of $48,700. If you build the identical car on the VW Germany website, the MSRP is €78,000. 16% of that is value added tax, so the pertax MSRP is over €67,000. Now go take a look at how much the Euro is worth today and you will see the huge discount VW is giving the US buyers versus the buyers in its home market.
It is, compared to what else is out there priced wrong -- shhhhh -- the price is too low. $42K with an Audi 4.2L V8 and a 6spd tiptronic transmission. This is a steal, a gift to the customers -- they'll wake up soon enough as it is. Shhhh.
They will sell as many of these as they can stamp out.
-- love the lively debate.
I don't want to be accused of letting facts stand in my way, I am "often wrong, but never uncertain. . ."
To this very day the Japanese cars, as a group, and despite all the good things I KNOW about them and read about them -- come off as lesser gods; German cars -- even VW's (generally speaking) come off a greater gods. And, I know, I really do know that VW's are often hammered by the media and by those of us who contribute here on Edmunds.
For a change, I happen to agree with the auto enthusiasts who proclaim the Touareg is a bargain.
As far as "foreign" goes -- the best category:
Germany - cars
Italy (or France, perhaps) - food, shoes (Italy)
Switzerland - watches
Japan - Electronics (especially HDTV)
Belgium - beer
United States - software
And of course this is all said with tongue in cheek.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2003-07-31-vw-- - touareg_x.htm
And, the back seat does have individual adjustable AC outlets, lots of room for two growing kids, and a DC accessory socket if I want to hook up something.
I guess USATODAY would have been happier if the Cayenne-lite was outfitted more like a Dodge Caravan, but I think they missed the real attraction of this vehicle: it simply owns the road like few others in any price range - handling, braking, and ride comfort. Enthusiast drivers, who might blanch at the thought of piloting a 4700 lb SUV will enjoy the way this one moves. I know I do.
I would expect some kinds of problems with a first year vehicle, but, then again, there's more riding on this joint venture than VW's bottom line (read: Porsche's reputation). I expect they've done their due diligence.
Anyway: 4 years 48K bumper-to-bumper, 5 yr/60K powertrain. ;-)
That is one thing I didn't like about the FX35/45. The roof rack is a $300 option that 99.9% of them have. To take it off involves disturbing the headliner and getting parts from Japan. Then if you want it back on.....
Good to see another Volvo owner here, Rollie. I had my first Touareg test drive today and generally agree with you. The initial impression was very positive for driving experience and quality, neutral for design features, somewhat negative for utility. Unlike you, I would definitely use the off-road and towing ability.
The test drive was a loaded V8 with sporty but incongruous 20" wheels. Once it got going the power was impressive. Handles well for being so heavy. Transmission seemed reasonably smooth. Appears to be a relatively safe car.
The exterior is pleasing except for the large, cartoonish VW emblem, as if the car is a pumped-up Passat. The interior is generally comfortable but cluttered and disjointed to my eye. Too many switches and displays of all types and sizes. The central control-navigation panel has lots of features but is awkward to use, especially while driving, and will probably baffle most drivers. The rear seats are hard to fold down and the headrests, which cannot be lowered out of the way, block the driver's view to the rear. The collapsed spare, compressor and neatly arranged tools in the boot look well thought out but inadequate for off-road. By comparison, the XC90 doesn't have quite as many features but handles the basics better.
The Touareg is about the size of an XC90 although it weighs hundreds of pounds more, but the inside space is more comparable to an XC70. It felt cramped in both head and shoulder room for a car this size. I measured the cargo length behind the front seat (set for me) as a foot shorter than the XC90. Probably would need a cargo box or trailer for a road trip.
The air suspension is interesting. Quite amusing to feel the car rock fore and aft as it raises up. That should get the attention of jeeps and pickups at the trailhead, or lowriders on the boulevard. I'd like to take one off-road.
A quirky but appealing car, as a VW should be. For those who can live with the shortcomings in space, weight, design and economy, the Touareg should be popular even if it doesn't know what it wants to be.
It took almost no time to learn how to use the NAV. Although there are some features on it that I haven't used. One shortcoming was that the early models like mine didn't come with a complete NAV manual, only a little quick start guide. A manual is now ready but I haven't received my copy yet.
People are complaining about the NAV not being DVD based. This issue is WAY OVERBLOWN. The NAV works just fine for it's intended job. I have some small issues about missing roads in rural VT but that is more a NAVTECH issue.
I've taken my center headrest out and put it in the back of the car in case I need it if I ever carried a fifth person, so my visibility to the rear is fine. Oddly enough, the owner's manual shows a reduced size center head rest. Either VW's suppliers couldn't keep up with demand or VW decided the full size one was better for some reason.
I think the idea behind the inflatable spare was that so few people ever actually go off road in these things, why burden the vehicle with the cost, weight, volume of a full size spare. I prefer the 26.5 gallon fuel tank to a smaller tank and a full size spare that I would probably never use. If you are a serious offroader, then get the V8x model with has a full size spare, skid plates and other offroad features. Or just buy a full size spare and toss it in the back for when you really need it.
The rear seats in my ML were also awkward to fold down and you had to remove the head rests if the seats were too far back. So the VW isn't much of a change in that department. This kind of goes with the size territory I guess.
If you can, take the car on a long test drive. It is a fantastic highway cruiser. Far better than my ML430 ever was.
I'd love to. Can I borrow yours? ;')
I like the Touareg and would be happy to own one. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee years ago and the Touareg seems like a modern European interpretation of that concept. But the design is confused. Too compromised for off-roading unless one gets the very expensive "extreme" model. Too heavy, complex and small on the inside for family hauling and road trips. And many details, for example the back seats, user interface and Nav system, are a step behind the competition.
I'm thinking the XC90 has a more balanced, thoughtful design but I can't criticize your choice. The Touareg has a lot to offer. It will be interesting to see how the market responds.
"Vermont, where even the rednecks drive Volvos." - Get Fuzzy
I'm sure the XC90 is a nice car. If you need three rows of seats and have small children, I'm sure they will fit back there OK. Is there much room behind the third seat though?
Frankly, I am very happy VW didn't compromise the design of the Touareg by putting in a third row. Then people would be complaining that there is no room behind the third seat for luggage or that it was too difficult to take out or that only very small children could use it or that it took up too much of the 26 gallon fuel capacity.
Don't know how good your German is but if you get a chance, look over or use Google to translate the test autobild.de did of the ML350, XC90 and Touareg V6. The winner was the Touareg but the margin of victory was pretty close. Every car has its strong points. The question is which one meets your needs best.
I agree with you on three rows of seats, I haven't looked at one yet (except the monstrosities)were the third row is really functional for anything other than very small children and pets. Well...maybe the mother-in-law.