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Comments
Around a foot. The two 3rd-row seats can be deployed independently, so potentially one person could sit in the back and use the other side for cargo. The seats are designed for children or small adults. My 5'8" wife was comfortable there. Like the 2nd row, they fold easily. Nice design.
However, we're not really interested in the 3rd row. The space behind the 2nd and 1st rows are important and the Touareg is cramped by comparison. Headroom is less in the Touareg, too. As I noted, it's much closer to the XC70 for interior space.
That big engine compartment makes for some good powerplant choices but the price is less passenger/cargo room. Interestingly, the power-to-weight ratio for the Touareg V-8 is about the same as the XC90 T6 or the XC70 2.5L 5-cyc. The VW transmission performs better. Volvo is still using 4 and 5-speed gears.
#1 - sure, the roof-rack is simple to adjust on the RX330 ... because its not designed to carry any weight!
#2 - DVD entertainment? That's for soccer moms!
How many soccer moms are spending US$40k on a German driver's vehicle with better furnishings than their house, just for the kids to destroy?
The reviewer wasn't thinking on point #1, and he was possibly under the temporary spell of some Pontiac marketing with point #2. I think he'd be happier in a Sunfire with plastic cladding... (he probably drives an Acura 1.6EL)
And the 3rd row seating ... the Benz S-class doesn't have 3rd row seating, but I haven't heard one reviewer complaint.
And the best selling vehicle for half a century in North America -- the Ford F-series truck -- got by with one row for 1/4 century.
Let's get real ... if the commuter lanes I see around Seattle are any indication of American driving preferences, they are empty because people don't even fill the FRONT row of seats ... how big is this market for a luxo-cruiser with 3 rows?
I'm sure there's a few buyers, but there's already a competition to service that niche.
"Let's get real ... if the commuter lanes I see around Seattle are any indication of American driving preferences, they are empty because people don't even fill the FRONT row of seats ... how big is this market for a luxo-cruiser with 3 rows?"
Family haulers are as popular as ever. Households looking to buy a luxury mid-size SUV generally expect a third row to at least be an option; for many it is critical. There are good reasons the Touareg does not have a third row but Touareg fans had better get use to being critisized for having less room than many competitors.
Pickups, your example that family haulers are not needed, appeared as non-work vehicles in the 1970's precisely because family haulers were so popular and some people wanted a cheap, sporty vehicle. They really took off, as did SUVs, when the pollution laws exempted trucks.
Your Seattle example is completely off-target. SOV commuting is caused by sprawl and automobile dependency, not family size. In many households you will find that the SOV commuter also has a family car such as an SUV that is used by the other adult driver.
V8 with BiXenon lamp option. Bottom line sticker -- $42K. The thing looked great, and seeing a "strippie" (which it really wasn't) I can only once again say -- looks like a heck of a lot of vehicle for the money.
I have still not had the pleasure of testing one of these things, but they must be dogs or ride poorly or run rough for all the remarks about hos this thing is overpriced.
Maybe I have been buying Audis too long -- the VW's keep looking higher and higher value all the time.
Mark, the V8 Touareg is a dream come true, as far as I'm concerned. If you'd asked me two weeks ago if I would even consider buying an SUV, my answer would have been no way. But here I am, with this big grin, loving this machine.
They are way underpriced compared to Euro pricing. A genuine bargain.
As to the idea of a third seat, it would ruin the T-reg to carve up that beautiful, functional interior to make room for a few more rug rats, let 'em get a Caravan, better suited for them.
I'm seriously thinking of moving from a 1998 BMW 540i to a Touareg V-8. I've driven the 6, and although it is very nice, I think I will be disappointed with anything less than the 8. I've had it with BMW!
A couple of questions if you don't mind...
What is your opinion of the CD-based nav system?
Also, are the 12v outlets on when the vehicle is off? I need an active outlet for cell phone charging?
Did you get the air suspension? If so, your thoughts please?
Thanks...
I think the 12V outlets are all hot - seems I read that somewhere - haven't tested them.
My Touareg did not have the air, saving me many thousands of dollars for an option I would never use.
Knockoff, I don't know. But, the voltage is cut to them in daylight running conditions, meaning that their service life should not be diminished appreciably.
I love the Touareg and recommend it wholeheartedly!
Oh! I couldn't tell...
Thanks for your answers to my questions!
But it seems that most other VW's don't let you do this, although some aftermarket places sell a replacement "Euro switch" or relay that lets you turn them off.
Steve, Host
Mark: Even if the ride is just as good as an X5, many people who are unfamiliar with the product will remark that it is overpriced. My guess is that a majority of these remarks will not be from knowledgeable automobile enthusiasts. Consider that most Americans do not realize VW and Audi are essentially the same company. They don't realize that a VW can have all the engineering and material quality of an Audi (or Mercedes or BMW). If the T-Reg had an Audi badge instead of the VW badge, I bet there would be far fewer remarks about pricing. No offense to the better VW dealers, but I bet Audi would also provide a better dealer network for selling and servicing this level of product. But I do understand the dilemma: If the T-Reg sold for $42K at an Audi dealer (or $44K with free factory maintenance added into the cost), this product would be undercutting other Audi products, such as the A6 4.2.
As a semi-informed bystander who is a big fan of European automobiles, I agree the Touareg is likely the best value among all European SUVs, especially if one takes advantage of its off-road and/or towing capabilities.
One personal gripe is that I wish they offered a lower trim level at a reduced price. I simply cannot afford $42K for a vehicle. The V6 T-Reg is a few thousand less, but with a base weight of over 5000 pounds, I wouldn't want to settle on a 220HP engine. The V6 version has too high of a weight/power ratio. We settled on the new RX330 at a negotiated price of $36.2K. (How many times have you heard, "I settled on a new Lexus because I couldn't afford the VW." Hee, hee.)
Just like a house or a hotel room...
It comes down to one's priorities. No doubt if one wants excellent off-roading capabities in a 4/5 pasenger SUV with modest cargo room (for a mid-size), the Touareg is a super choice. Unfortunately the V6 is somewhat underpowered for the vehicle's weight, and the thirsty V8 is a much better fit for it. I don't think that people who are familiar with the excellent Passat should be too shocked at paying over $40k for a VW, though.
When I'm on the road and my phone dies I plug it into the car-charger and stash it under the seat overnight (I don't carry the AC adapter with me).
Works great!
New Jettas have them in the trunk too (good for those DC coolers like we carry in our Eurovan).
But they don't come close to the T-reg's 5 power outlets:
- Two in front center console,
- one in center console for rear seating positions,
- and two in rear cargo area
Just trying to think ahead so I don't buy on impulse when the time comes.
Get the V8, enjoy life.
Yep, and the X5 is built in South Carolina, folks! Sorry, but is there really a significant difference in labor quality between these two states? ;-)
Regarding the Touareg, I would suspect the V10 diesel, when it is available in the states, will be priced significantly higher than the V8. (I thought I saw a reviewer provide a projected cost estimate around $50K, but please treat this info as hearsay.) If you don't need the additional power, then I would agree with c5lover. The added cost of gasoline for the v8 will not offset the price differential.
If fuel efficiency is a top concern, and you do not require towing or offroad capabilities, there are definitely better options available than the T-Reg or the X5. It all depends on your own personal tastes and the other priorities you place on an SUV.
And I guess I want the diesel just to be different. I don't even really want an SUV, honestly, but a diesel Touareg would stop my friends in their tracks. I love my Mercedes, but even my dad said I should drive a "sexier" vehicle!
I want to apologize for my "icy" tone. It was an attempt at dry humour, ala Seinfeld, by exposing some irony within your original post. I wasn't completely sincere, as I attempted to note with that eye wink symbol. (Maybe I also felt this strong urge to stand up for the citizens of Alabama? Hmm.. maybe...)
I also wonder how the BMW Spartanburg plant compares to the Mercedes plant in Alabama. Doesn't Spartanburg also build the Z3/Z4/MCoupe vehicles? I'm more of a BMW fan, and so you can probably guess which plant I would prefer to tour!
I know this is off-topic, but wouldn't the FX35/45 do the job of stopping many of your friends "in their tracks"? Probably not always for the right reasons, huh? Funny, but if my dad was alive today, he would never say I need a sexier vehicle, even if I was driving an old Ford Taurus wagon; or better yet, the wagon Chevy Chase drove in the first "Vacation" movie! Instead, our conversation would likely contain something along the line of: "You spent how <expletive> much on that vehicle!!??"
Other than the engines and transmissions that come in crates from Mercedes of Germany everything else is made in the US but NOT by Mercedes but by subcontractors, the body panels if I remember correctly are stamped in Ohio and shipped to the plant, the dash and electrical wiring is made by Delphi close by, the frame is made and welded by a company with a Japanese sounding name and the list goes on and on.
Again, they explain very clearly that nothing except the engine and transmission is made by Mercedes Benz, at the plant they only assemble all the components shipped to them.
At the plant
http://www.funtigo.com/mltransmission
At least I think they survey factories - I can't find any links....
Steve, Host
Hey, watch it! The same thing could be said of the Touareg as it relates to the Passat.
maurcedes: "I think the T-reg is so cool, but a V-8 and the loss in mileage seems foolish in the days of high priced gas... does anyone know about the rumored V10 diesel?"
The V-10 is said to have 20/28 mileage compared to the V-8's 14/18. The thing about the V-10 is its monster torque: 553 ft-lbs compared to the V-8's 302. A V-10 Touareg would be a towing machine and provide some justification for the car being so heavy and yet small on the inside. Durability and maintenance cost for the V-10 would be interesting to know.
On a side note, fuel cost to the driver is a red herring although there it is right on the window sticker. There are so many other costs of ownership, not to mention the many non-market and external costs of fuel use. This isn't the place to discuss those but the socially conscious buyer should be aware of them.
And, what is a FX35/45?
The diesel V10 Touareg would probably be overkill. I don't even have anything to tow. A Passat wagon would probably do just fine, but there's not too much sexy about that car.
My dad had so many weird cars when I was growing up, I guess I take after him. My first car was a 1968 Ford Cortina. My mom's was a Hillman Minx. Then we went through an Austin Marina and a Fiat 128 3-door "station wagon". They got on a Subaru kick in the early 80's when they lived in.........Oklahoma. Go figure.
When I click on your username, the Town Hall Profile window opens to indicate a first name of "Sandi". Log in and try it yourself. If the last name is also incorrect, I would recommend having your user profile corrected.
Regarding the FX, you might wish to read up on the FX35 (280HP 6-cylinder) or the FX45 (8-cylinder) SUVs from Infiniti. They have active discussions here in Town Hall. The design is a bit radical. They are extremely into "sport" at the expense of "utility". Many people describe the FX design as sexy, but it is a polarizing design that some other people describe in unkind terms!
Pictures of my FX35 are Here.
More info available at Infiniti
Review of the FX35 available here
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of the Touareg
tidester, host
We do try from time to time to be polite and civil -- how novel?!? So I think just letting us know "how to address" maurcedes is what we are after. No magic.
You might try "maurcedes" and, if she doesn't mind you might go with "maur", "maurced" or "ced" though "cedes" just doesn't have a pleasant ring to it. To coin a phrase, the "maurced, the better!" ;-)
tidester, host
The Passat isn't the most fun stock.
But a loaded GLS 1.8T wagon is only 25k.
Buy it in a dark color, tint the windows, swap in some high-quality german tuner springs to lower it a bit and firm-up the ride/handling, and pick a nice 18" wheel with a polished lip mounted on some high quality rubber (like Yokohama AVS/sport or just Toyo Proxes)
and get it chipped, upgrade the turbo to the larger size, and replace the exhaust and you have:
- a well-balanced wagon with more sport plus utility than most SUVs
- over 300 HP of reliable HP and fantastic mileage (if you can control your right foot) in an extremely aerodynamic package that should be good for 150+ MPH
- and you've only sunk $30k into the vehicle
The price, due largely to the base price diff would be another $10,000 over the above suggestions, but you would have all wheel drive and that sweeet souding W8 and no worries about the chip -- not that I worry that much about them any way.
But that would be a great stealthmobile and with those pipes just peeking out under the rear bumper, the thing would just look awesome.
It would, definitely, be interesting -- for a Passat fur sure.
I agree the V8 Passat would be more desireable (compared to the GLS), but at 40k I'd much rather have the T-reg. I compared them side-by-side and personally think the T-reg's interior says "luxury" much more than the Passat. However from the outside they both offer understated class.
But if I DID get the W8 Passat, I'd definitely be watching for the Chips and Turbo upgrades. Keeping in mind that the W8 is half of the 1000 HP motor in the Bugatti Veyron. -- which neans that a twin-turbo kit could bring out 500+ reliable horsepower. Now THAT would be a fun car!
(W8 Passat? Where do I find one?)
So to add all the feature to make it "better" then you are also paying in the mid 50s if not higher. I am not sure if the value is there?
The towing is a plus because a similarly priced MDX (42K) for example offers all the luxury, etc (and a electronic rear differential lock) cannot tow nearly as much. It just seems that at the low end you could do better for both luxury, offroad capabilities and performance...and at the high end it gets quite pricey.
It's too bad they put such a high price on the optioned out model. I guess they can't put Porsche to too much shame.
One more...When is the Audi version due out?
You might as the folks who hang out here: Volkswagen Passat
or here
VW Passat Quality problems
tidester, host
It is out already but they are hiding it under a VW badge. It's got a V8 engine like the S6 and air suspension like the allroad, a full leather nappa interior (not just seating surfaces) like the A8 and a navigation system with an actual color map display, also like the A8. It is called a Touareg V8-PPS.
The only comparison is the price! And at that price the Acura (like everything built in Japan) won't even be made from virgin steel ... it will be recycled metal guaranteed to disappear within 15 years like all other Hondas.
Ever wonder why there are still 30 and 40 year-old VWs and Porsches on the road, but no 30 year-old Japanese vehicles of any description, save for a few Landcruisers with the replacement aluminum body? Even at $25k I'd expect "new steel" in my car, but unfortunately you have to buy European to get that ... the bean-counters in Detroit and Japan have decided that your new car doesn't have to be made from new materials. They'll charge big dollars and pocket the difference. VW is simply a much better value ...
Could that be why my '98 VW Beetle has a higher side-impact safety rating than a Camry, Ford Crown Victoria, or even a Chevy Tahoe SUV?
The safety rating of your Beetle vs. a Camry or Crown Vic has much more to do with the design of the vehicle as opposed to whether the steel is virgin or not.
For those who have some misconception about the value of virgin steel vs. recycled you are misguided. They don't just take any old metal smelt it and recast it for body panels. It has to meet stringent material science standards to be considered for reuse in an automobile. This recycled material behaves in very predictable ways due to the specifications determined by the material scientists who work for auto manufacturers.
I'll certainly agree that an average Japanese econobox vs. an average European car of the same size/cost is going to feel more tinny. That has to do with the unibody construction and the specifications for the metal (which are significantly different in the Japanese market where cars aren't meant to be driven more than 10 years or so on average due to VERY STRICT emissions standards.)
By the way, I don't know where you live but I don't see many 30-40 year old VWs on the road. You'll see some old Beetles but that's in no small part due to their cult following AND don't forget that the old Beetle body style was still being built in North America up until LAST WEEK. Porsche's are a different story. One of my dream cars is a Porsche Speedster but with retail values for some well into the 6 figures you can understand why people have invested in old Porsches to keep them on the road. If an old Porsche or VW had received the same care (i.e., maintenance outlay) as an average Taurus, Tercel, etc. I don't think it would still be on the road today even if it was made of the finest steel alloys.
Thanks.
-rollie
rdollie@att.net
p.s. - I'll take a Touareg over a MDX anyday.
This VW SUV is manufactured in Bratislava(Slovakia)NOT in Wolfsburg-Germany.
I have a '63 Ford F100 unibody half-ton in my driveway with large patches missing paint that have surface rust, but it will grind off. My '92 VW 1-ton truck also has a couple chips next to the windshield that are rusted, but it isn't spreading.
Now the Datsun's and Toyotas that I owned in the past were the opposite ... by the time you saw the rust there was very little metal behind the paint. Even an expensive vehicle like a Land Cruiser disappears rapidly once rust starts. Try locating a used tailgate for a LandCruiser wagon ... they don't exist and are in high demand. And there's a company locally that builds "bush boxes" to replace the normal box on a pickup. Business increased 10-fold once they created a model for Toyota pickups because they are notorious for rusting so badly.
I still think that at $25k you should be getting new materials in a vehicle that is meant to be outdoors. I'm all for recycling, but 2nd-hand steel is great for buildings where its kept indoors.
Porsche adds seats and their engine and final paint. I'm not sure what VW adds, but I'd suspect the engine at least is inserted in Germany.
Does someone know what final assembly steps VW does in Germany for the T-Reg?
I don't think VW offered much different for the low 40s and optioned out it gets very pricey and not worth it to me. So for 42K I think the MDX is very comparable.
For people that just want a VW SUV vs. another brand it should sell well, but not be as good. For those that want to spend close to 60K the optioned out model offers that "Range Rover" image you refer to, however I just don't see it.
I have thought about Japanese vehicles from 30-40 years ago. Have you completely? VW has been introducing cars into the US in large scales since post WWII. Japan's major push started in the 70's, which put the 40 year old models out of reach. Also it is common knowledge that the early Japanese vehicles used "bad" untreated steel that did rust out, my parents rusted out B210 can attest to that. However you do see many Japanese cars from 1980 and up on the road and a lot of those may be on the road for years to come. I don't think your argument about longevity is quite valid.
From reading you guys posts, it appears that there are very differing ideas of luxury and value. Thats great and as it should be. Some of you are dead set on Teutonic superiority. Some on the infallibility of the Japanese makes. Am I the only one getting the irony of the fact that these are the same two countries that wanted to dominate the world militarily a few decades ago and could have cared less what we think of their cars?
The Porsche/VW camp define luxury more or less as performance on the road. Others are looking for a more comfy interior and silky smooth ride. While the "enthusiasts" may know all of the details and performance specs, most normal buyers are not into all of that. That look at features vs price. That is where VW has missed the boat. I am sure they have no doubt produced a very good "enthusiats" suv that probably does perform like a porsche, but that is a limited audience. The bigger, more lucrative audience buys camrys and accords and explorers.
VW may be trying to break into the luxury market, I know there pricing is sure getting there (I was floored at passat prices), and more power to them. I do not count myself in the Enthusiast camp as I am looking for more luxury and smoothness over out right performance. I think, as others have posted here, when it comes down to it alot of buyers will go for the mdx, rx330, or xc90 over the toureg, for various reasons.
Again I am not knocking the toureg. I am sure it is great but I think its target buying audience is too small. Even chrysler had a similar issue with the pacifica. I hear it is a great car with a lot of MB engineering. They just priced it outside the market for chryslers. I hear they are preparing a lower priced version. Most buyers are not going to look at the pacifica and say, yeah it is worth 10K more than a normal chrysler because it now has MB parts. They are going to say $37K for a chrysler? Yeah right.
You guys have fun and I hope you enjoy your new touregs. Like i said i will probably look at one when they are not so HOT and will give it some consideration. It has been great reading the owner and shopper posts for good info and I will continue to check this board every now and then to stay up to date.
Anyway, I've got my V8 Touareg already and loving it. My car was discounted via a $3000 boost of my trade-in value over what other VW dealers were going to give me, and a discount for the miles they put on it while they demo'ed it for 2 weeks.
Funny thing is that I have only seen on other Touareg on the road so far and that was 3 weeks ago. Where the hell are all the other Touaregs?