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Comments
The other issue is, if you do get a flat, and your T-reg is loaded with cargo and passengers, where do you put the now-flat original tire? On somebody's lap? On the roof (assuming you have tie-downs of some sort)? It certainly won't fit in the space the inflatable tire came from.
Bob
This is a discussion forum, not a fan club. The good and bad should and need to be discussed. Hiding things, or discouraging discussions of less than ideal features, doesn't do anyone any good here.
Bob
It would seem that the adventurous are also inventive, ingenuous, and flexible...
I think part of my problem here is that in so many ways, the Touareg is absolutely brilliant. So when I see such an obvious (to me, at least) oversight, it becomes glaring. The first thought that comes to mind: What were they thinking??
For the record, all other mid-sized SUVs with 2-speed transfer cases, meaning those with off-road aspirations, and that are in direct competition with the T-reg (Discovery, Grand Cherokee, 4-Runner, Pathfinder, Montero, Explorer, Trailblazer, Durango) all come with full-size spares as standard. The makers of those vehicles obviously feel differently than VW.
I've said my piece. Feel free to take it or leave it.
Bob
My car has only about 20,500 miles so this problem is still under warranty and will be repaired at no cost to me, I hope. Unfortunately, the earliest VW dealer can fix this is a month from now, however, earlier appointments are available if I want a paid scheduled 20K miles service!
When I called VW, they said they can't do anything to expedite the problem resolution. I explained them how the problems were handled in my RX300 and the service rep said that the Lexus service standards may be different because they sell vehicles for $50,000. (not true, the RX300 cost me 38,000)
Nevertheless, they took my complaint (service call # 30409854) but when I asked what they will do about it, the answer came out to mean "absolutely nothing"!
I don't think Toyota or Honda would have acted in much different way but Toyotas or Hondas are less likely to have such problems. (or any problem)
I almost bought Touarag, glad I didn't actually BUY. I considered GLX 4Motion a near luxury vehicle but in future, either I will buy a cheaper VW and expect cheap reliability and service or will buy other established brand name luxury (e.g. Lexus) vehicle where the dealer would have offered to pick up the vehicle for a potential warranty repair.
Steve, Host
No charge "loaner" cars have been Audi normal here in River City since 1988 -- at least at my dealer. I have no reason to believe this is not Audi normal since the follow up phone calls I get from the "telewhatever survey company" always ask if I got an "acceptable or appropriate" free loaner car.
Today, I have a 2003 Chevy (big big) SUV -- usually I get an A4, A6, or TT (automatics only) for my service appointments. I used to get Jettas and Passats.
I have even had a Porsche, an S4 and an A8 as dealer loaners -- there doesn't appear to be any particular pecking order, although I am certain there must be one.
Also, drop the car off for oil changes, or like today one of my Xenon headlights (the igniter actually) gave up the ghost. The dealer tech called and said, "listen, keep the Taho (or whatever), I want to finish up and clean the car for you -- or you can come by tonight but I won't have had a chance to clean it."
I'm waiting.
I also ordered new tires from a web site and new wheels (18"'s) from another web site and just have them shipped to the dealer with the service mgrs name and then he calls me when they come in, and I swap them out, and a couple of days later they bring my old wheels and tires to my house in clean dry plastic bags.
I know this service doesn't compare to Lexus and all the other premo Japanese makes, but compared to reading about what VW owners are forced to put up with, it makes Audis all that much less costly.
I mean the above treatment is for A4 1.8T owners and RS 6 owners alike.
Again I say, Wow!
http://press.nissan-global.com/EN/EVENTS/autoshow.html#FRANKFURT
Bob
"Turn indicator"? If you drive in Boston, don't you mean "directional"?
All kidding aside, I really do find it strange that the dealer would not at least schedule appointments based on "first come, first served." You may want to try another VW dealer since there are so many in this area.
I don't think this is a brand thing, as much as regional variations, plus big differences from one dealer to another.
And RE: "Toyotas or Hondas are less likely to have such problems. (or any problem)" ... you haven't looked at any of the Camry forums, have you. Besides the car having WAY more problems than any VW product, some customers are told "you should just be thankful to own a Toyota" without getting all the rattles fixed, (or the prematurely worn out brake pads, or scored disks, or harsh vibrations, or the myriad other problems encountered by owners of new Camries) dealt with.
I'm sure Hondas and Toyotas have some problems, but probably less percentage of their vehicles have problems. (Check out jdpower.com) Not sure if Toyota/Honda dealers would have treated in any better way but the VW could have handled this in a better way on a $32,500 MSRP vehicle.
I can't say how Honda/Toyota would also handled it but I'm certain Lexus would have handled it in a different way. On our RX300, (about $39,000 MSRP) during initial break in period, we thought the car pulls to the left while going at high speed (60+MPH) in the left most lane - the Lexus dealer picked up the car, gave us a loaner, inspected - wheel aligned it and returned it. The problem was about road gradient because car remained in straight line in middle lanes (light but almost continuous pressure is required to keep the car in straight lane while in the left lane - I guess that's why some cars have the speed sensitive steering...whatever)
Here, I’m willing to sacrifice my time to bring the car to the dealer but the earliest appointment I found by calling a few dealers is three weeks from today for a warranty repair.
Well, you can fool a few people for a long time and a lot more people for a short time - otherwise, we'd see more Jettas and Passats instead of civics, accords, corolas and camrys...
Just to show you that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, we have a 98 Passat, in 5 years we never had one minute of problem on the other hand about that time my daughter got a Camry and she had several problems, brakes was a recurring one, others were with the ECU and some other problems, when her Camry was in the shop she would borrow the Passat from my wife and would always comment what an exciting handling the Passat had.
Off course this does not mean much, it could have been the other way around as far as problems goes, but the one constant remains, the German handling and the feel of solid build with first class materials, always makes it a pleasurable experience.
My two cents.
I've done moderate off-roading for 20 years and have had 4 flats in the back country. 2 of them could have been repaired in the field but the other 2 were catastrophic sidewall tears. And this was with real off-road tires on a Jeep. The road tires on the Touareg are nowhere near as strong.
Certainly, you carry tire plugs, goo, a compressor and other repair stuff as backup but you do not want to be far from help without a real spare tire. And towing on the road demands a good spare, too. A temporary spare, even a full-size one, is inadequate.
What are the options? Carrying a spare on the roof is very awkward and inconvenient. An external rear-mount is workable but blocks access and the view to the rear. Putting the spare in the rear storage area takes up too much room. The obvious solution is to put it underneath like on most vehicles.
Well, this was a mostly commuter state-college on the fringes of some urban areas (OK, it was in New Jersey). And a lot of students were on student aid or grants for low-income families.
When they came back for their trucks in the spring, not one had a spare tire anymore!
Bob
The VW truck is very secret and not to be discussed until announced.
Meanwhile, the concept vehicle you mentioned was shown in Detroit a few years back, and it was the first vehicle with the V-10 TDI engine.
Its called the "All Activity Vehicle" (AAC) And you can see it on VW's concept car site:
http://www.vw.com/concept/index.htm
It also featured a 6-spd automatic driving all 4 wheels. VW hints at the future with this description:
"The AAC is not like anything you've seen before. But you'll certainly see something similar from us again. You see, we don't engineer our concept cars just for the Show.We do it to keep our lineup of production cars current and, hopefully, innovative. All ths work has a place in the real world. Probably sooner than you think."
So far, the Titan is the first vehicle to borrow heavily from VW's AAC concept. Expect the VW truck to be as big, fast, and smooth, as the Titan, but probably handle better.
Be careful before making expensive VW purchase. The VW didn't force me to buy my first VW and couldn't convince me to buy a second one.
Perhaps you are accustomed to being provided with a loaner car when your vehicle is in for service. I have never been to a dealership that has this as a standard practice so I don't expect it and plan accordingly.
And it turns out that the required part is not stocked (repeat of the prior catalyc convertor problem) so I wasted time and efforts today.
Some times you get what you pay for and sometimes you get less than what you pay for...
I thought the same would hold for the T-Reg, considering its price.
I've been down this path before, Audi A4 vs Passat: well there is the size difference, but the treatment at the dealerships is like night and day from what I read here.
I repeat, is anyone from VWoA monitoring this?
There are some Dealers that have thoroughly embraced the new Brand/Operating Standards and that will continue to strive to provide the best
in Customer Service. And then there will be others that do not...
I have said here before, more times than I can
count, there are good MBZ, BMW, Caddy, Toyota,
Honda, Porsche Dealers, and because we are talking about human frailities, there are some that are not so great...And, I am quite sure that even the great ones do not have a 100% blemish free record.
First of all, no one at the dealer or the VWOA ever acknowledged that they are sorry about the brand new $32,000 car that they sold me has yet another problem which could compromise safety of the people in the car as well as on the road.
Second - I drop off the car, then the dealer takes a "look", then I get the car back while dealer orders the part. Now I will have to drop off the car again so that dealer can install the part - and if this doesn't fix the problem, I will have to repeat the process (which I did once when the catalyst converter failed)
And all this while I'm stranded with out a car. Some of us buy a new car not to show it to the neighbors but to use it everyday. Perhaps a used Toyota would have forced me less trips to dealer!
Some kids turn out less then great because their parents just don't care.
(For VWOA personnel, if you do care then I assume you are browsing such premium message boards. Please refer to the case # 30409854 for more information)
A couple minutes later she gives me the keys to my "loaner" and requests that I bring the car back with a like amount of fuel in it.
At the end of the day, I call the service advisor, who says "you can pick the car up now or wait until the morning and I'll wash and vacuum it, you've got transportation, right?" I waited and picked my car up clean and they had dressed the tires, even.
About 4 biz days later, a call from Audi of America (hired by them, I'll bet). They asked me a bunch of questions "on a scale of one to 5" and two questions "was the car cleaned for you" and "were you offered transportation for the time your car was in for service?"
I gave them all 5's and two emphatic yes answers.
I assume that this was NOT a call from my dealer -- this call was to allow me to tattle on my dealer, I suspect. This call which claimed it was from a guy from Audi of America was probably a paid telesurveyor. He DID, however, let me add a sentence to his survey -- and I used that sentence to praise, by first and last name, the service advisor -- the survey person said that that information would reach both his boss and him.
I dunno, if AoA is following up on service appointments with customers and I had said, "no I didn't get a car, or they tried to charge me for the car or words to that effect" wouldn't there be some consequences to the dealership, even if it was limited to a slap on the wrist?
My dealer has all these plaques and certificates and stuff all over -- even the guy who washes the car has some certificate from the car wash "professional" washers association and they have it framed on the wall -- you know what I mean.
So, if VW is attempting to make a march up scale and is already marketing cars in the $30K, $40K and $50K price bracket and will soon have the super high buck luxo barge, the Phaeton, you'd think the "easy" stuff to do would be to "impress" the prospects and customers with the "details" like clean cars, free loaner cars even for oil changes (unless you want to wait of course), free coffee and pastry in the waiting area and follow up phone calls where you can "tell it like it is."
Audi dealers are often bashed here and on Audiworld, too. But the propensity to dis the dealers is overwhelmingly greater here in VeeDub land.
Now, you may say, why in the Wide Wide World of Sports do you an Audi owner give a hoot? Well, I'll tell you -- I really like the VW products, and the pipeline products look quite er, inticing too -- even the current KNOWN pipeline, the Phaeton looks pretty spanky. And, a W8 Passat, I think (equipped with the 6spd and sport package) is a honking, screaming bargain -- but y'all rag on the "ownership" experience so much (and it doesn't seem to be getting any better -- quite the contrary in fact) well, it scares the VW outta me.
I keep lurking and participating in hopes that through our dialog we can turn this ship around.
Until then, I keep enjoying my VW's cousins from Audi.
Is anyone from VWoA monitoring this?
Y'all keep asking this question but I'm not sure if VW would admit it if they are. Subaru does have a official presence on the boards here, so anything is possible. The consumer comments here are likely much better info than VW could get from a focus group.
Steve, Host
I am the Phaeton Specialist in our store and we are going to San Diego next month for a formal introduction...my guess...Phaeton will be a stand alone operation...You need service? we go to you...and leave a Phaeton while yours is being serviced/repaired...Phaeton customers can provide their own Croissants & Demi Tasse at home...No need for Sven's & Starbuck's at the Dealership...
Warning about one shocker. My business bought the vehicle so it is in the business name. I should have put it in my name but still wrote a business check to pay for it. My insurance is over $3000/yr. It is more than my Lexus SC430 convertible, way more. Apparently my agent says it still would have been expensive if in my name (but still much cheaper than business insurance liability), because Allstate feels the car is so new with a shortage of parts that repair will be expensive and TAKE A LONG TIME. Well, they may be right about repairs taking along time, but not just because parts are scarce it seems. I figure that the Cayenne would have similar issues. I wish the Treg could be re programmed to pull away from a stop in second gear like the Cayenne, rather than first gear. It would be satisfactory, but less jumpy of a start. Besides, if I wanted to zoom away, I could put the car in "S" mode and then it would use First gear from a dead stop. The rear hatch doesn't reliably "read" the presence of the key fob so it doesn't always unlock the way it should. No custom fit high quality cargo area rubber matts in beige yet available, just universal fit black rubber mats from matts.com
I have used the car off-road...Sierra dirt roads and stream crossings. The air suspension is fantastic and low range drivability very usable. The fabric used for the headliner looks good, but I worry that it will trap dirt/dust and make it harder to clean up. The interior is beautiful, but not so easy to clean when one is driving in dirt or snow/slush. And the wheel wells desperately need rubber aftermarket flanges and flaps to reduce their flinging of dirt, mud, etc. The rear tire soils the rear view mirrors fairly effectively, not to mention the body sides.....pretty annoying but something you don't find out on dealer test drives. That's all for now.
Those other companies like Lexus, Infinity and Acura also have similar price cars, as does BMW and if I'm not mistaken even one Mercedes is priced this low -- and of course we know the upper limits.
Yet, here comes VW touting its upscale corporate strategy -- and at least on this side of the Atlantic it has certain connotations. Now the Phaeton specialist and the extra treatment are a good, or even very good place to start. And, there would have to be a cut off and cut over period. I bought an Audi in the late eighties, 87 or 88 I lose track and almost immediately after I bought mine, Audi announced the 3 year test drive campaign -- but since my car was a few months prior, I did not get the same treatment that everyone else got -- 100% free maintenance was not mine, free loaners -- nope, car washes, yes but only when in for service, and so on.
But ever since then the whole deal is included.
So my buddy who buys a pretty much rock bottom A4 1.8T with cloth seats and non metallic paint gets the same treatment I got with my $70K Audi A8 and through my $50K allroad.
Yes Audi's volumes are lower, but the other high zoot cars are higher than Audis and I suspect some of the Japanese luxo brands may be siginificantly higher -- every where I turn I see thos Lexus ES 300's and the similarly sized Infinity i someething or other -- more of them than VW's and Audis.
It is something else, besides 30 vs 100, is my point. A $30K Passat vs a $30K A4 -- they should be given the same attention, or better said their owners should be given the same attention.
Some of the car mags say the Touareg is a bargain, the same ones say that the Passat W8 is too much money (I disagree, initially). Perhaps the difference in value perception is that the attention that is lavished on Audi owners at the same price point as the VW is difficult to swallow for most of us.
If I want new wiper blades 12 times per year, they are available at no charge and all I have to do is drive up to the dealership and they put them on while I wait, no $40 charge and no wait for them to come in.
The sweetness of low price (which as I mentioned is not that much different between the cousin brands) is forgotten when the quality of service sours so many.
I will continue to shop the brand, but as I said, VWGUILD is a diamond in a mine full of coal, based on reading this and other chat rooms dedicated to this fine product family.
I'll take in on faith that VW is reading your and my words and is scurrying around to clean up this mess before it gets out of hand.
Now this Phaeton thing, that's a horse of a differernt color. Hopefully the treatment described is enough to make some high buck A6 and A8 shoppers at least give the Phaeton a good look-see.
Steve, Host
I am doing over 40k miles a year all on freeways..., I was wondering if the touareg will be a good choice as far as quite, compfortable and safe drive.
Also do you know if the TMV price includes Taxes and license fees?
Thanks
ADG
Steve, Host
This is a nice to have, but certainly not a need to have option.
4 Corner Air Suspension will allow a ground clearance of 9.4" or 11.8" for rock climbing,
and a Load level of 6.3".
Standard height for Steel Springs is 8.3" and 8.7" with Air Supension.
However; if you are planning on putting your Touareg thru some 'hot laps' the Air Suspension will allow for a drop to 7.1" at speeds over 122MPH...
I agree with the above post, however towing is a worthy consideration also. Regarding the towing requirement, if you find you need some boost for towing down the line, you can purchase aftermarket airbags that go inside the rear springs and can be adjusted remotely. So you save now and then if/when years later you want to tow, you have options.
Sure we may tow something (a boat, for example); but rarely even when we tow do we actually need all of the great OFF ROAD capability that Jeeps, Hummers and even BMW's SUV are capable of (and the BMW is NOT THAT capable).
The car makers are rushing to add all wheel drive to many of their models -- even the ones that have zero off road intentions and/or designs.
Piech, of Porsche, Audi and VW heritage, management and fame -- was quoted in the seventies as claiming "soon" all vehicles would be offered with all wheel drive because of the safety, performance and efficiency that the design CAN afford. Then he proceeded to make certain that when we was in control that his companies' created "THINGS," Quattros and 4Motion drives -- and for several years enjoyed a rather quirky reputation for producing all wheel drive cars when clearly the BMW's and Mercedes crowd knew that rear wheel drive was the only really serious design for high performance.
This year, we will have available and / or announced: a more complete line of AWD BMW's, Mercedes, VW's, Volvos, Jaguars and in this month's car magazines even Cadillacs (and I'm not even including the truck-based Caddy SUV's here).
The tremendous off road capabilites of the Hummer2 are real and they are -- for those who care -- legitimate. Ditto Jeep and other Rovers (Land and Range, that is).
What many want is all the capability and safety and room that a "fill in the blank" has and they "ALMOST" don't give a hoot if it could "ford a stream or climb a X% vertical rock wall."
What many want is what is being rushed to market by Volvo, Jaguar, BMW and Mercedes -- and an expansion of that throughout the VW line. Subaru and Audi have been offering AWD at opposite ends of the price spectrum for years.
US drivers, tired of truck like SUV's and desiring of more control and the resistance to "mother nature" that AWD provides are moving to the vehicles of Jaguar and VW alike and sales of all wheel drive Mercedes are set to transform their customer's perceptions.
AWD needs to be an option just like "color" -- and it appears we are moving in that direction.
The Touareg offers perhaps the best of all worlds -- but it is off road capable. Perhaps there is a market for a spacious AWD rugged vehicle that is designed less for the off road and more for the on road -- the Passat W8 "wagon" will do nicely for many; trouble is they don't even know it exists.
And, that is another subject for another time.
My 2 SUVs don't have that happen to them, however I have noticed other brands (BMW, Volvo, etc) with a similar problem. Is this a design flaw with airflow/wheel design or just a characteristic of the brake pads?
The reason: brake squeal used to be a major issue and customers of high buck cars thought it meant the cars were cheap. The contrary was true, of course, so the engineers came up with a pad that stops pretty good, isn't as hard, doesn't quite have the wear characteristics AND DOESN'T SQUEAL.
Some folks buy Hawk HPS pads which do everything a little bit better, and have less brake dust -- but it is possible that something is lost when something else is gained.
Too bad there isn't a brake option on the check sheet -- it would be oh so cool to be able to check a box that says cross drilled, slotted Brembo brakes -- I would assume the cost from the factory would be less than the after market cost which ranges from $2995 to $3495.
Tires, wheels, brake and suspension options "ought" to be available as extra cost choices -- my prediction, "coming soon" as a differentiator.
You may want, for example, a sport package consisting of suspension, tire and wheel upgrades but don't want the high buck high output engine.
I would love to have some of the bits that come with an RS 6 (Audi) but I don't need an $84,000 car. The jump from Audi A6 4.2 to RS 6 is up to about $33,000 (and it can be more). If I could pick and choose a couple of the performance bits (and pay for them) two things would happen: #1 I would be happier; #2 Audi would make more revenue and profit (with mass customization manufacturing techniques).
VW, too, will almost certainly begin to offer more and more ways to personalize the Phaeton, Passat, Touareg, etc, etc, etc buying and ownwership experience. The Touareg does a pretty good job of this already.
I started downt the path of brake dust and its fundamental cause, beyond car washing habits of owners -- and of course the brake dust really is a marketing decision.
Now would you LIKE to be able to choose from say 3 or 4 brake pad and / or disc combinations -- from the factory? Many people do and that is why the aftermarket continues to grow. It seems to me that if the factory offered "tuning" options integrated with the car rather than bolted on afterwards, that the price could be less than the aftermarket and the profit could be higher for the manufacturer.
How many times have you seen high buck sound systems put into cars? I myself have done it twice using Blaupunkt electronics and some high end speakers -- and it was all integrated into my Audi as if it was there from day one (and at the time, 1987, it cost a young fortune -- but Talking Heads never sounded so good).
My point is, I would rather pay the mfg or the dealer for VW sanctioned upgrades -- and it seems that marketing will be the driving force to move this proposition forward.
I agree some pads/brake setups are more prone or not to it, however driving around for 2 weeks one should not expect black wheels. I would think if automakers paid attention to this detail they could mitigate it better.
Any Touareg owner that can comment on what they are experiencing?