VW Touareg SUV

markcincinnati

I spoke with an edmunds poster this morning -- one of several e-mails I received from edmunds posters today. His decision was between an allroad or a Touareg -- and his off road needs are minimal.

Based on what I know, not what he told me, the price difference (or lease payment) was diminimus and was not going to make the decision one way or the other.

We, in common, know of a "family" owned VW dealer that would somewhat mitigate the service and "customer treatment" issues. But the recent posts here on edmunds plus my experience with the Audi Advantage and the Audi dealers here in RiverCity, I think pretty much pushed him into moving forward with a new allroad.

The more I read on edmunds and audiworld and VWVORTEX, the more I am convinced that the VW brand has and continues to move the products to the ever more desirable categories. But it appears that a significant number of dealers or perhaps the very fact that there is no VW Advantage (100% full maintenance for 50,000 miles, free loaner cars and the "Lexus" experience) is currently quite persuasive against VW -- not the products so much as the "experience."

I read over on the Passat town-hall that some folks resist the $260 20K service charge (although there seems to be some dispute that that is indeed the correct fee) and generally try to avoid visiting their dealers due to the inconvenience, treatment and "nickle and diming" factor.

Two of my friends have, after seeing this town-hall and after having fallen for Passat GLX 4motions, ended up getting Audi A4 1.8T quattro sports for the same lease payment but without any dealer or service issues.

This town-hall substantiates the sentiments presented in a book called "Blown to Bits" where the author states "Car dealers are sitting ducks. . ." All the dirty laundry that is posted (and the clean laundry too) is "out there" -- this grass roots movement should encourage VW (to name but one) to rapidly mend its ways with respect to the dealer body.

Keep those emails and phone calls coming. I should write a book (or at least an article) -- or perhaps YOU should!

knockoff

I am getting ready to purchase & have looked at the t-reg to have as daily driver & to take off road. The more I read here & on other forums plus the few visits I have made to 3 dealerships in my area, I am backing away from the "heralded" t-reg and looking toward Japanese shores... I am saddened by the overall negative experience that I keep having and reading about. I really like the vehicle on its own merits but... This is my only car & I can't be fiddling around with lengthy repairs & problems (and no loaner car). I will keep reading here but am looking elsewhere.

low_ball_88

I test drove the T-reg last weekend and was very impress with its interior and smoothness of the engine. I went in to the dealer knowing nothing about the T-reg. My wife also test drove it and she was very impress. She is looking for a carlike SUV. The dealer was ready to deal since they even advertised a discount of $3,000 off the MSRP. Thank goodness that I stepped away since after reading the problems that posters are having in this town hall discussion. I've always owned Japanese vehicles (Honda and Toyota) and is spoiled by the vehicles reliability over the last 15 years of ownership. I've always wanted a German made vehicle but is hesitant to actually buying one since all I hear is electrical problems with their vehicles. My guess as to why the Lexus dealer/customer/service experience is ranked so high is because the vehicles they produce are mostly trouble-free. Therefore, they could put some money into providing this excellent service. BTW, I test drove the following vehicles and is still considering purchase any one of them.

BMW X5
XC90
T-reg
MDX
Pilot
RX330
MB E320
BMW 530i
BMW 745i

markcincinnati

On your list there is no Audi allroad 2.7T, 2.7T 6sp or 4.2. The allroad has the ground clearance of a Jeep Grand Cheerokee, a 20% stiffer floor pan than a standar Audi "station wagon" -- REAL offroad capabilities, an air suspension and front and rear skid plates.

Plus lurking beneath its SUV capabilities is a sports sedan. And, it is such a sleeper car that the lease deals on them are fantastic. And, you can get one with a 6spd manual transmission.

It goes like stink and is quick 0-100kph 6.8 seconds. I keep getting emails from folks who seem to narrow their selection down to either the T-reg or the allroad.

Give it a try if you can't move forward with the T-reg.

knockoff

What do you mean by "REAL offroad capabilities"? Does it have a 2-speed transfer case? Can I get locking differentials?

frustratedownr

THIS IS AN UPDATED & EDITED REPOST

I apologize to all for using peoples real names!

On 9/25/04 I purchased a loaded V8 from Dirito Bros. in Walnut Creek Ca. Upon taking delivery, the remote didn't work and 3 different salesmen couldn't explain why. I got very frustrated & told them I would read the manual & figure it out myself.

The car spent all day 0n 10/1/03 at my local dealer in Sacramento where the couldn't figure out the problem. By this time I had also noticed a paint flaw of about 12" on the lower front bumper. The black blemish on a Reed Green was under the clear coat.

Could this have been transportation damage?

There was touch up paint dripped on the dash & drivers door window sill. My glove box latch broke and the tire pressure function on the computer was telling me that my tires had no air in them. Another thing that was happening is that the stereo & nav system would intermitently come on when I would return to the vehicle and open the drivers door or the back hatch. No the key was not in the ignition.

On Oct 2nd I received a call from Lasher in Sac that I had the wrong keys and the correct keys where still at the factory and they would have them sent over.

Oct 6th Dirito Bros. told me my parts were in come on down & get it fixed. They tried to give me a Jetta for a loaner, but I explained that in my job I need to transport large boxes and other items. They unknowingly brougt me the very same Passat Wagon that I had traded in a week and a half earlier. At least my [non-permissible content removed] fit the seat well and the radio was tuned to all my favorite stations. They said they fixed the electronic problems and would then send my car to a body shop to repaint the whole front bumper. This made me very un easy. I didn't spend 49k for "used" car.

Oct 16th when the vehicle still was not ready I called The owner of Dirito, Voice Mail, and informed him of how I felt and that I no longer wanted that vehicle. I wanted it replaced.

Oct 17th The nice Service Consultant called to tell me the car was ready & that if I did not want it that there was nothing The Owner of Dirito Bros. could do on a Dealer Level. She gave me the number for VW America.

Oct 17th I called & talked to a rather unfriendly CS Adviser @ VWNA. She could not give me any time frame as to when this problem would be resolved. I asked for my case number and she told me they didn't have those and to reference my last name.

Oct 20th I called & talked to another CS Adviser @ VWNA. She informed me that the previous CSA had done nothing but input my complaint. She said that she would elevate my case to a "Top Priority" and would leave a message for the "Regional T-Rag Specialist.

Oct 21st I Visited one of my customers & noticed a new T-Rag in the lot. Turn out it was there 2nd T-rag in a month. The first kept shutting down electronically and the dealers couldn't find the source of the problem. My cust was fortuninate enough to have financed through VW and had unintensionally omitted a signature on the contract. They were also able to stop payment on the down payment check. Their dealer was more that willing to replace their original vehicle.

I did not finance through VWNA. They cashed my check weeks ago.

10-21-03 After leaving my cust. I called VWNA, spoke to yet another CSA who was nice, but could only tell me that the T-Rag Spec had contacted Dirito Bros & would call me back. Again no time frame , so I asked the name off this T-Rag Spec. She gave me his name, but would not give me his phone number.

10-22-03 I called info in Auburn HIlls to get the front office number for VWNA and using their Voice mail input the T-Rag Spec. name. He answered immediatedly. I started to tell my saga when he interupted me to ask if the CSA from the 21st was the one who gave me his number(I guess we don't share the same concerns). He told me he had to check with a "California Specialist" to discuss the states lemon laws and would call me back. I tried to explain that this particular vehicle had only been to the shop twice(Law is 3 Times). My intent was to avoid the Lemon Law so that they could resale this particular T-Rag and hopefully give me one with out so many problems. He actually called me back a little later to say he left the Cal Spec. a voice mail.

Today 10-23-03 I called to leave a message with the Pres of VWNA. The receptionist was very nice and suggested I try the Exec. Office Voice Mail to get a quicker response.

10-23-03 I hour after leaving the message, the T-Rag Sp. called me back to say that VWNA will honor their warranty and pay for my 5k & 10K service. I told him that I would have to get back to him later today.

Should I demand more? Am I being to picky? I havn't seen the vehicle since 10/6.

10-23-3 I left another mess for Donald Dorito. No reply

10-24-03 7:30 am was told that I could leave a mess with mr. pres or his assitent. the exec office was as high as I could go. left another mess.

10-24-03 7:34 am left mess for the t-rag spec. that I did not want to accept his offer.

10-24-03 11:45 am received a call from a woman from the Exec Office and was told that VWoA's resoulution was non negotiable. She was as high as I could go @ VW and there was nothing more she could do.

There might be some good t-rags out there, but I would not recomend buying one.

Do you think the Phaeton will be a good car?

qpower

Sean -

I no of no state where you can buy a new car and then return it a short time later saying " Gee, guys, I want to have my money back! " This is daft, man! Daft!

Lemon law is your only recourse unless you want to sell the vehicle to a party for a used car price, whatever that may be...

Less dreaming folks! There is a hard cold reality to commerce and durable goods - things go wrong and the culpability is not always so obvious to both parties. VWofA does not share your view, obviously, that this vehicle should work without flaw from Day 1. It is a machine after all, a fairly complex one at that. Caveat Emptor.

sciencegeek

The key issue is: How do you get your car back quickly, fixed. Swallow your pride (though you don't have to take up VW on their offer to pay for the two services).

If the rig is fixed, you're happy. If it's a real lemon, you'll find out soon enough and then it's time to gear up for the legal battle. I'll keep my fingers crossed that the car will get fixed, but qpower is right: Corporate America (VW and your dealer) is in the driver's seat here.

Keep us posted, but don't repost the days that you've already posted before.

rc7762

I hear what you are saying but this is hardly the case in which the person is saying "Gee guys I want my money back" in fact he does not want his money back at all, What he wants is a replacement, to me that shows loyalty to VW and that in itself should stand for something!

Your right, this is a complex vehicle so complex that no one seems to be able to fix it when it breaks and VW obviously put a high price tag on it to compensate for all that complexity and the loyal VW consumers are standing in line to spend $50,000 on this thing and in this persons case he has hardly had a chance to drive it so I don't think asking for a replacement with out going through the "lemon law" mess is an unreasonable request.

Let's face it, VW's reliability in a nutshell is lousy and they built this sophisticated thing knowing it was going to be plagued with problems and charged a fortune for it, the least they can do is stand behind it with something better than insulting the customers intelligence by saying that they will honor the warranty and pay for 2 scheduled maintenance visits!

sbcooke

I am not sure what daft is...however I did a little research. Technically I believe people have 3 days in most states to get out of any contract. I think, but haven't been able to verify you have 7 days to return a car for a full refund. Even if true may not help in this specific case.

The fact that VW offered a deal in the first place means it is negotiable. I think you would have a better chance getting out completely than getting a replacement from them. Although if you want to go further than their current offer you will probably need legal help.

On a positive note...it is just a machine and hopefully overtime the issues can be fixed, if you can find a good service department.

I don't understand the key problem? I lost a key and fob on my MDX and had a new key w/computer chip reprogrammed to work with the car and then to save money found instructions to program a 1996 integra's fobs on the web and programmed that myself. You dealer couldn't try a passat's sequence for reprogramming? They are probably the same.

sciencegeek

> Technically I believe people have 3 days in most states to get out of any contract.

Not in California.

sciencegeek

I've searched around and can't find anything on what I think may be an important topic for new owners.

The computer 'learns' your driving habits, right? Some questions about that:

1. Is this some neural net software, and more generally, how exactly does it 'learn'?

2. What should be avoided while the software learns? It seems to me that, if lots of different people drive it, the software might get very confused. This might be part of the 'lag' problem that some people have observed, and may be a particular issue with cars off the lot.

3. What's the best way to drive if you want the thing to be as acutely responsive as possible?

stever

There's no cooling off period in any US state that I'm aware of.

There is a 3 day cooling off period in most states for purchases made door-to-door (new vacuum anyone?) and that confuses many people.

Next time you see a car sale at the fairgrounds, try to close a deal there - my guess is that the dealer will make you sign the paperwork at the the car lot for this very reason.

But once you drive a new car off the dealer's lot, it's yours. Unwinding the Deal — What Are Your Rights?

Steve, Host

low_ball_88

Thanks for your opinion, but the allroad is a AWD stationwagon ala pacifica, xc70. IMHO it is not my cup of tea. Other carlike SUV at least look like SUVs.

sbcooke

Thanks Steve. That clears that up.

I thought the 3 days was for everything. Why won't dealerships take cars back the next day as in the article's examples? It reads like...take the customer's money at all costs and never give it back. Should buying a car be such a battle? Why are dealerships allowed to behave like that? I hope internet sales will help to stem the tide on "bad" dealerships and offer the consumer better or "more respectable" deals.

markcincinnati

I got the skinny on this learning transmission from a Porsche representative when I went through the one day Porsche hands on experience. Many of the cars we drove had tiptronics. Indeed most of them did.

The transmission learns your current patterns; as far as I know it doesn't retain this memory, or if it does it is not such a long term thing that if driver A on Monday was a hot rod that the car would retain whatever that implied for driver B on Tuesday.

Black and White makes it a little easier to understand. If upon takeoff from a full stop you accelerate hard, the car upshifts at higher road speeds, higher engine rpm's -- stays in each gear for a longer time (in seconds). If you take off as if there is a soap bubble between your foot and the accelerator pedal, the car will upshift much sooner -- attempting to get to the next highest gear with religious fervor.

As you drive the transmission controller "figures" that if you have been driving in a sporty fashion that it will work with you and hold each gear longer.

The programs aren't perfect and recently the tiptronics on some cars have D and S, where S stands for sport mode which assures higher shift points.

The transmission is based on more or less "fuzzy logic" which is a poor persons artificial intelligence.

It usually works pretty well. But the tiptronic transmissions do have a bit of a tendancy to delay execution of your commands (via the accelerator pedal) by about a half second, causing some to claim "tip lag" feels like turbo lag.

It is, despite its critics, pretty good.

tidester

Why won't dealerships take cars back the next day as in the article's examples?

Perhaps because it becomes a used car the moment you drive it off the lot along with the concomitant drop in value?

tidester, host

sciencegeek

I think what you're talking about is different from what I meant when I asked about the computer learning your driving patterns. I posted the same questions on a different site (something like vweddy and got a couple of responses that confirm that the computer learns your habits; that it can be reset to starting default values; and that you can screw it up by driving erratically.

Still, it would be useful if someone here who knows more about it tells us what they know. Or, Host, is there a different forum that would be better for this? (See my initial post, #1115 above)

jeeto

So after a load of wheeling and dealing i got my Touareg. I got it for 500 over invoice. Fees were just tax, liscensing, and doc fees.

Dont pay anywhere near msrp.

jeeto

Also it was a v6 without any options. Yeah most peopl here are going for the options but the car is already loaded with enough to make it just fine for the average driver.

vwguild

Thank you for the clarification...would not want anyone here to think that you got a V8 with Premium Plus and other additional options for that same structure...

frustratedownr

On 10/24/03 Dirito Bros. re delivered the T-Rag. I drove it the 7 miles from the office to home. Backed it into the garage, turned it off, exited the vehicle. A couple of minutes later I opened the drivers side passenger door and the Cd player started playing. I shut the door and watched for a couple of minutes. I had to push the power knob on the nav/stereo to shut it down. My owners manual was nowhere to be found.

Does anybody know if this is some computer setting that can be change?

10/27/03 8:00 am Called the serv. dept @ Dirito Bros. & She asked if I had left the lights on. I did not. She thought that was why the stereo would come back on. She said that they will try to find my owners manual and research my re-occuring problem.

10/26/03 The owner of Dirito Bros. finally called me back. He left me a voice mess. on Sunday at my office. He apologized for my problems, said he would research and call me back today.

Until there's more...............

stever

Maybe when Wal-Mart starts selling cars we can start returning them when they die the next day :-)

Sciencegeek, I think this is as good a place as any to ask about drive by wire, but you may want to browse the Maintenance & Repair board too.

Steve, Host

jkloss

I just purchasd a toureg - V8, Premium Plus and trailer hitch for 6% below MSRP.

Has anybody had any experience with the installation of the trailer hitch. VWOA was of no help and the dealers knew less.

rc7762

I have been following your saga and after reading each post I find myself getting more and more frustrated and I don't even own one of these things, I am sincere when I say I feel your frustration and I really hope that you get this mess straightened out either by the vehicle getting fixed correctly or you getting a replacement.

I'm not exactly sure what Steve_HOST meant with the crack about Wal-Mart but as I posted earlier I feel VW should replace a number of these vehicles regardless of going through the "lemon law". Please keep us updated as to how you make out and good luck.

tregowner

The trailer hitch retails for just under $700(!). My dealer claims that it is a 3 plus hour process to install it. They say that the rear bumper needs to be removed in order to install the hitch. They also want another 1/2 of labor to do the electrical work for the hookup. The entire thing (including the hitch) will run close to $1100! It seems pretty excessive to me; I've been looking for alternatives to the dealer. By the way, when I first called the dealer about the installation, they had no clue about how long it would take. It took them about a week to get back to me, after (supposedly) contacting VWOA for the info (and I assume the menu pricing).

sbcooke

I would wait if you don't need it right away. Hiddenhitch.com will come out with a hitch and installation instructions before you know it. Typically $125 and between 1 to 2 hour installation time.

stever

VW's Touareg leaves other SUVs gasping (Edmonton Journal). Almost makes you wonder what spiffs the reporter got from VW for writing that <g>.

The Wal-Mart crack was about auto dealer's lobby preventing car sales by big box stores. Since you can return stuff to Wal-Mart pretty easily, wouldn't it be nice to be able to do the same with a lemon car?

Steve, Host

vwguild

I guess that explains why you got your Touareg at a discount...

markcincinnati

By Motor Trend.

sciencegeek

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/112_0310_suvoy_touareg/

qpower

I guess I do have impeccable tastes!

Vehicle does suffer from poor gas mileage, odd electrical quirks (sometimes the seatbelt annunciator does not go off when unbuckled; sometimes the map lights will stay on until I cycle through controls), there is no audio in jack for my iPod, there is an eleventh speaker at the top of the dash but not in use for the basic 10 speaker system...odd, getting used to the throttle lag at the traffic light, Sport setting can help, etc.

Beautiful ride, very smooth on road...

I have all of 300 odd miles so far...so far to go yet!

Am getting the VW Touareg German import key fob listed in the Driver magazine -

When do you get the rechargeable flashlight I have heard about?

V6 Reed Green, leather, xenons

klaudnyc

It has a very nice interior layout, but I think the list of advantages ends there. Cargo space is very limited; it has less cargo volume than the Passat wagon. I'm tall so I need to sit with the front seat back all the way back. When I did that there was little room behind me for a passenger and the rear seats couldn't fold down. But the worst part, by far, was the sluggish acceleration of the V6. I was amazed at how underpowered it is for a $36k vehicle. If it had more pickup I might have considered it. The V8 is out of the question because of price and dismal gas mileage. Later I test drove the V6 4Runner Sport with X-REAS and it was a no brainer.

bahamaashley

I wish I had found this website before purchasing my Touareg. I bought a V8 Oct. 1st. After driving for two weeks I noticed a pinkish fluid leaking. It turns out I have a leak in the transmission cooler. Here's the kicker. The part is on national backorder so they don't know when it will be in. It has been sitting in the shop for three weeks. Its undriveable. I can't seem to get a hold of anyone who can help my situation. I'm hoping that frustradedownr will read this and be able to advise me with headquarter phone numbers or anything he has that might help my cause. I'm still making car payments for a car that is undriveable. I'm about to pick up a picket sign and hit the local dealership. HELP!!!

fish8

I hope they at least provided a loaner. Look in your owners manual for phone numbers to corp. Have you tried to contact the zone or regional manager in the area you live? How about the owner of the dealer?

tregowner

I'm sorry to hear of your problem, but I also can't make your math work. If you bought the car on 10/1, and drove it for 2 weeks, there's no way it could also be in the shop for 3 weeks, since we're only at 10/30. This seems to be a trend on this board....no denying the problem, but lots of additional hyperbole to go with it. (Although I admit I would be agitated if my car was in the shop for an extended period with no resolution.....)

jkloss

I have talked with several VW dealer employees of who are from Germany and they claim that the horse power of the V8 is really 330 same and the Audi A8. So if the Touareg was produced when the 2004 A8 was being produced then the HP was 330.

These people cliam that VW is understating the HP to keep Porsche group happy.

Does any one know any more about this. I have hear this from several VW people and from Porsche people.

Looking forwar to mine which should be getting off the boat in Hourston yesterday or today.

jeeto

I have read this board for quite a while and have seen all of the issues people have been having. All I have to say is I do really love this car so far. I saw a post about how the acceleration is lagging on the v6. This isnt true. Yeah maybe if I was planning on racing another v8 or was timing my 0-60. For the average driver commuting, going through canyons, hitting the mountains, etc.. this car is really perfect. I jammed up a freeway on ramp that was pretty steep with no issues as well as I sped through a canyon with variable grades perfectly.

I anticipate issues happening as I have read this board. But with my wifes passat wagon everytime I have taken the car in whether I see an issue or not or if they have a recall the problem is always solved and generally with a smile. Whenever I took my Chevy Tahoe in to the dealer i would walk out of there having to argue and spend hundreds of bucks on issues that didnt relate to the way i drove. Im sure many of the dealer issues with the Touareg have to be because the car is so new. Give it 5 months and they will be experts locally. But you can bust on me when you start seeing me post about the minor issues i will experience.

Overall all of the details in the lowest model v6 are insanely cool and smart. No need for all of the extras unless you are loaded or are using this thing to romp.

Also the post about the Toyota 4 runner... Toyota is cheap in comparrison to vw. I looked at the 4runner, the pilot, the lexus, etc and couldnt find the details that vw has. Its funny because when you look at the Toyotas and Hondas with the extras that they raise the price for it just feels like they added some nice stuff to a cheap car. With the vw's every piece goes in and out of that car well. If its missing its not noticable if its in it makes sense. Leather seating on that Honda Pilot looked like someone was trying to pull my leg.

low_ball_88

I too like the interior very much. Compared to the Toyota and Honda, the materials used in the T-Reg is several notch higher. But here is the kicker, the reliablity of the Toyota and Honda surpasses any German or American vehicle. Problems heard on this board are rarely discussed on the Toyota or Honda boards. Electical problems are almost non-existent for the Japanese make, maybe that is why they produce the best electronics in the world. Just be glad that you are not having any problems yet. I am considering T-Reg and BMW X5 along with other midsize SUVs but before I buy, I will have to decide whether I could live with subpar reliablity. Other friends of mine who were driving BMW and Mercedes have already unloaded them and purchased Lexus because they were all tired of having their vehicles in the shop and having to pay a fortune for the repairs.

jkloss

What is all the concern about the mini flashlight. This is to be a standard on the Touareg as indicated by the brochure IE part of the non smoking package which is standard. Are the guys at the port stealing them or is the dealer taking them or are they not shipped with the car?

klaudnyc

I'll agree that the interior of the T-rag is one of the nicest I've seen in a car or SUV. I'd also like to add that it's more capable than the RX in off-roading and towing capability.
However, I could not look past the limited cargo area and sluggish acceleration. If it were roomier and more powerful I probably would have bought it. The closest "real" SUV Lexus offers is the GX470, but there you're talking about $45k. IMO the X5 is too pricey for what you get and it doesn't have a good rating for emergency maneuvering. I also didn't like the fact that every little option required the purchase of a special XYZ package - be it cold weather, sport, etc.

Calling the 4Runner cheap with nice extras is not accurate. It's built on a solid frame with 9 crossmembers. My front calipers have 4 pistons each and 13" rotors. Like the Trag, it has a lockable center differential (Toyota's is a Torsen limited slip), vehicle stability control, traction control, brake assist and hill start control. Unlike the Trag, it also has downhill assist control. I can creep down a steep or slippery surface without having to use the gas or brake, essentially the truck drives itself.

I won't say that the Toyota is without its problems as I've had to replace a defective brake booster and fix a rattle in the sunroof. But these were mfg defects and I believe in the long run, my truck should be relatively trouble free based on past performance. It's tough to say that about a company who never built an SUV before.

thor8

I have to agree with baham math, I too noticed a strange trend here, someone pops in the board claiming he just bought a Treg or Trag and from the second day he had all kinds of extraordinary problems, no history no nothing, quickly disappears and a few days later another one.

sciencegeek

you have throttle lag? on another forum (something like vweddy where I posted a question about this people said that they had some luck getting the computer's memory for adjusting the throttle response erased. remember, it's drive by wire and the computer has learned your driving habits (and perhaps more importantly, those of the test drivers before you).

jpvwaudi

have mostly been misunderstandings; i.e. the salesman who sold the Touareg didn't know how to deliver it, tech didn't calibrate the compass or tire pressure monitor....as a salesman, I've sold 19 Touaregs; I've had 2 problem cars.....both were check engine lights for gas caps (we don't pump gas in my state)

lvsmickey6

Just wondering if anyone purchased/leased their car at Joe Heidt and if they've been happy with the service department?

Thanks.

jeeto

I have been seeing the same... I have been researching the Touareg (not as a car enthuisist but an average consumer) for awhile. From the vibe it feels like dealer guys are cruising around on their free time.

Its sort of hard to seperate a car enthuisist from a dealer as they both know how many crossbars (in reference to above) are on a car.

I just simply trust what I see on the streets. Usually Volvo, Volkswagon and japanese manufactures' seem to have the 20+ year span. Yeah the Touareg is new but based on the history of the brand I can assume that if there are issues they will be taken care of and igf not it simply will be much like the other vws... you take care of them and they take care of you.

rickrover

Bogus Posts happen a lot here at Edmunds. I have an 01 X5 3.0 that is going off lease next year and I'm either going to purchase it off the lease or get a T-reg.

So back to bogus- my X5 has been perfect in the first 2+ years, not one single problem. It's had a couple recalls that get taken care of when it goes in for service, never had to make a special trip to the dealer to get something/ anything fixed. People on other boards are always posting how problematic the X is - the facts are I always engage a fellow X5 owner in conversation about it. Not once have I had someone tell me they've had tons of problems- they have glowing reveiws.

Another fact about Japanese vs German electronics - the Japanese don't have nearly the sophisicated electronic features VW's or BMW's have. Doors lock automatically at 8 mph, tons of interior lighting, ambient lighting, doors that relock themselves if the door isn't opened in a certain time, trip computers, tire pressure sensors, suspension controls, automatic air suspensions, sophisticated remote opening, doors that unlock and hazards flash after a crash, etc., etc. - the Japanese don't even come close to that kind of sophisication - I have a Jetta TDI wagon that has most of these features - even a Golf has a lot of this stuff - German cars do have electronic glitchs from time to time, simply because they have more sophisicated features. I've owned VW's and BMW's and rarely if ever have they had problems with the electronics.

So bottom line is a lot of the negative posts that you read here are bogus sour grapes from people that wish they could drive what they are posting about.

I'm waiting for the V10 TDI T-Reg!!!

markcincinnati

According to Business Week, German cars must produce the power they publish within 2% -- American car manufacturers do not have such "tolerance" rules to abide by.

I have no clue then if it would be OK to understate the power since the understatement suggested way exceeds 2%.

What is the German HP rating of a 4.2 V8 T-reg? If it too is 310 HP, I would think that it is 98% accurate (+/- 2% that is).

The 20HP difference could very well be due to the breathing of the T-reg vs the Audi set up.

As we all know, the way VW and Audi generally get power out of their engines has much to do with "volumetric efficiency" -- perhaps the A8 incarnation just breathes better -- and deliberately so.

What I think is more relevant here in the US is torque at a given RPM. Audis non-turbo engines seem to produce somewhat lower torque and higher HP compared to a "comparable" BMW, for example. On the other hand the VW/Audi turbo charged engines usually have plenty of torque from sub 2,000 RPM on up.

I'd say the T-reg is as published.

thor8

Jeeto,

When someone posts like this: I bought my new T &#147;RAG&#148; that my little heart was set on, on my way home from the dealership the right wheel fell off, I called the dealer and he said your problem, I finally put it back and next day the front wheel fell off, the A/C quit working and there is a burnt smell coming from the dashboard, and now its been at the dealer for three weeks and I have to walk and VAG offered me a free oil change for my troubles and……

Come on, lies are always self-evident.

Volkswagen has made it a policy to really improve the quality of their vehicles, they are very serious, it is not a publicity campaign but corporate policy.

I am looking at the Treg but the Diesel version with the V10, right now I have a ML and don&#146;t see the need to switch to another gas engine, while waiting for them to come I just lurk around.

Keep in mind that there is no perfect car, by that I mean any car, any brand, any model can give you a trouble despite some of the hype you read here at Edmund&#146;s by the denizens of other brands, I have seen it with my own eyes countless times, they can turn blue in denial but what I have seen remains.

Just like you said, if any glitch arises you have a warranty, just go to the dealer with a mind set that you are going only to inspect everything, the warranty, the vehicle, the dealership, look at the vehicle good, underneath, inside the engine compartment, look for nothing in particular, just let your eyes and time inspect until you had enough, that is what I do, I tell the salesman politely up front, look please, no pressure, if not you will run me out right now, If I buy I will deal with you, if I have a question I will ask only you (that will easy his fear factor that some other salesman will take you) Just give me the keys to that car and let me and my wife or friend or brother inspect the vehicle in peace.
After that do your questioning and test ride.

Then calmly at home you decide, is the only way, I am set on a Treg but the diesel version because I do tow heavy.

By the way we have a 98 Passat with the 100,000K or ten years warranty and it has been faultless for 5 years, (At the time the warranty was 1 year bumper to bumper and ten for power train) now they lowered the ten year but increased the bumper to bumper.
To this day I am still impressed by the material quality, like the dash or heavier build of the car, somehow you can feel it.

nedzel

"Another fact about Japanese vs German electronics - the Japanese don't have nearly the sophisicated electronic features VW's or BMW's have. Doors lock automatically at 8 mph, tons of interior lighting, ambient lighting, doors that relock themselves if the door isn't opened in a certain time, trip computers, tire pressure sensors, suspension controls, automatic air suspensions, sophisticated remote opening, doors that unlock and hazards flash after a crash, etc., etc. - the Japanese don't even come close to that kind of sophisication"

That's completely untrue. My 2003 4Runner has doors that autolock. You can choose to have them lock when you drive away or lock when you shift out of park. If you unlock the doors using the fob, but don't open a door within 30 seconds or so, the car will relock the doors.

It has a trip computer. The 2004 has tire pressure sensors. You can get it with rear air suspension. It's got lots of interior lights (overhead, map lights, cargo lights, door lights, running board lights, etc.). It has automatic headlights. The headlights and interior lights turn on when you unlock the doors and the headlights stay on for a while after you get out and lock up. It has an autodimming mirror with compass.

My 4Runner does not have On-star. My wife has on-star in her C240 and has used it once in the 2 years that she's had it.

You can find just as much electronic frippery on Japanese cars as on German cars.