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Comments
Steve, Host
Sound System II only comes with NAV...Sound System I is an option...
All Touaregs with NAV/Sound System II are also equipped with a 6 Disc CD Changer.
Tyre Pressure Monitor has an active TSB dated September 25th...No Recall...
The invocation of the Lemon Law seems a bit premature here, don't you think?
Steve, Host
Not really a very credible post for the Motor Trend SUV of the year, and for a well documented problem that has been and is being addressed on early production T-Regs with VIN: prior to 4D018766 where the fix is to replace the Control Module and to relocate the Left rear Tyre pressure antenna prior to VIN: 4D019197...
And, I believe that "thor8" was referring to the poster; not the problems...
I don't think this is a shill post for a lemon lawyer or anything else nefarious, but simply an individual frustrated by problems with a new car in the garage.
In this case some solution info, like your TSB info on the tire pressure sensor, would be more helpful than calling bogus, whether in reference to the poster or the message.
Steve, Host
The key is 'significantly' because what one person considers significant another might consider minor. Having a vehicle shut down while being driven is significant.
Sometimes, there are significant problems early on in a new design vehicle. It is hard for a manufacturer to get an appropriate fix into the field fast enough to prevent early production problem vehicles from becoming legal lemons.
Also take a good look at your contract when you buy the car. I was stupid. The contract says sound system II but I have the I in my car and the guy says the car cannot be retrofitted and now I have to see if I can get some money back for that option that I was charged for. I should have done more homework on this before I bought it.
The frustration of a faulty electrical system and or potential gremlin is not easy to get over on a new car. However I don't own a VW...came close once...my research led me to believe that VW is plagued by a lot of electrical glitches...something that I know my personality type cannot take.
I read and post here because this new VW interests me and almost makes me think about getting one...however I know I could not take these little annoying problems...so don't label all negative posts as "bogus"...minor issues to some are major annoyances to others...especially OCDs.
> Steve, Host
Please, give me some credit.
Since you are in that line of business, I would to ask you, is that the way the dealers treat new customers like in posts # 1027, 1137, 1211.
Thanks,
I don't know how much is built into the price of these vehicles that justifies and pays for in advance free serivce, but it is, apparently, a decision point of some merit.
I get new wiper blades in the winter quite often and I pull into the Audi dealer and a guy comes out and replaces them and I sign the service order and I drive off.
The "nickel and diming" effect on a $50K vehicle must really be an irritant.
VW are you listening?
You'll have to fill in the blanks for me.
Sbcooke, I have fond memories of several bugs and one Vanagon and I tend to read the VW boards in SUVs and Vans pretty closely because I really want to like the new Microbus.
My sister wants to dump her new Beetle but I think she should hold on to it for a few years more, in spite of her power window problems. Mechanically it seems to run great.
Often I think the difference between a lemon and a car that simply has a few teething pains is the dealer experience. My sister found a local mechanic but drives an extra 80 miles for recall work since she can't stand her nearby VW dealer.
Steve, Host
And if you're comparing a V8 X5 to a V8 Touareg, then it's tough to see how the BMW can also be a "$50K" vehicle, since the BMWUSA website indicates that its price STARTS at over $52K.
Given that most Touareg buyers will be paying about $42-$44K for a V8 with equipment comparable to the base model X5 4.4, the "free" BMW service doesn't look so "free."
If we're comparing apples to apples (MSRP to MSRP on comparably equipped trucks) or oranges to oranges (typical discounts on comparably equipped trucks), I have trouble believing that the Touareg V8 and BMW X5 4.4 both price out at $50K and that "free" BMW service should be the determining factor in a purchase decision.
Let us know. What BMW dealer is currently selling the X5 4.4 for the same price as a Touareg V8 with the same equipment?
Regarding Post #1027: No date given as to when these issues were addressed and they are third party...A great deal has occurred since July when these trucks first got here...
Post #1137: Tranny fluid is clear, coolant is pink...need I say more?
Post #1211: Although the Touareg is sold at all VW Dealerships, not all Dealerships are the same...This poster is stealth...Linda lives in the USA...that's nice...Maybe the Dealer has only sold 1 Touareg...who knows?
Post #1210 & 1220 Contracts do not specify equipment...NAV/Sound System II is a $2650.00 option...Sound System I is a $500.00 option...
Leather on a V6 only comes with the Premium Pkg. Cost...$2300.00...
God bless the informed consumer...
that" on a contract knowing full well that it is not true. And, your "buddy" should have said that Sound System II and NAV ALWAYS "come hand in hand"...Option Code PNV...
As to recourse...The first question that I have is...do you have the Monroney Sticker from the window? And second, did you pay $2650 for the PNV, or $500.00 for Sound System I (PSP)?
You can also go the VW website and 'Build your Own' to get all pricing info...
My Touareg has been almost trouble free since the original problem (no AM radio reception).
I am experiencing a vibration in the vehicle which seems to be coming from the left front area. It only occurs when I'm driving 65mph or faster, but it constantly happens. There is a problem with the fan that runs during heating/cooling. It is extremely loud and annoying, you can actually hear it when the radio is playing. The radio/CD is slow and Temperamental Sometimes the unit thinks there is a CD inserted when there isn't. However, the sound quality from the upgrade Sound I is outstanding. I don't like the plastic front fenders, but they seem to be holding up OK. I don't like the amount of brake dust that accumulates very quickly, I don't know why Audi/VW allows this to happen on first year vehicles (my Audi A6 was the same way).
Other than the above issues, I'm pleased with the Touareg. I have the V8 and the acceleration is great. Gas mileage is about 16mpg on average. Interior build quality is outstanding, high quality and one of the nicest interiors I've seen on any vehicle. Standard features are impressive, especially compared to the BMW X5 and Porsche Cayenne (which I almost bought). Steering wheel controls can be improved, limited radio control (plus when you control the radio, other information is not displayed such as the gear number). The handling and steering is OK, but not quite as good as the X5 or Cayenne. It's especially a little mushy given the weight of the Touareg. The zenon lights are great, but they are noisy when you switch from low/high beam. Finally, the transmission is a little jerky at times, especially when downshifting to 2nd or first.
Basically, I feel the Touareg is a very good vehicle. Given the price of the V8, it's the best value in it's class. It has all the features of an Audi A6, but for about $12K less. Some news about the electrical problems, that's not because it's a first year vehicle. It's just something you have to put-up with when you buy an Audi or VW. I bought my A6 three years after it was re designed and it's had about 4 electrical problems (nothing major). If it's reliability you want, buy a Japanese brand. But you won't get the quality of materials, engineering and fun of a German engineered vehicle.
He said the 6 cyc BMW without sport suspension but apparently very well equipped otherwise, reminded him of his 5 series BMW that he had one car ago. Moreover, he had read the posts here and elsewhere and decided that he needed the "all bases covered" package that BMW offers but that is not at this moment in time avail on the VW.
Finally he said that to fairly -- whatever that means -- compare the BMW and the VW that the BMW can have the 6 cyc engine and that the VW MUST have the V8 -- I assume this means that the VW weighs more and needs the V8 to feel peppy.
I think it is fair to say that he thought that the V8 VW was "peppier" but not THAT much more so than the 6 X5.
Add all the things together -$8K off the BMW, similar performance (or at least close enough), no tow requirement so onerous that it favored the VW, many early bug complaints and many many many posts pertaining to VW dealer experiences that were negative + free maintenace = BMW (for him) a no brainer.
I am the VW and Audi biased guy and his decision made a lot of sense.
My vote would be his way based on the way things are and for the VW if VW would "include" 100% maintenance a la BMW and Audi.
I don't know if the decision should influence you.
I look at this as VW just needs to get its act together in the over $40K market based on what the competition does and is willing to do.
I consider myself a pretty informed consumer, and car buyer. I've owned a lot of cars in my life, my first new one being a 1968 Bug. Since then , it's been a BMW, various Honda's, 2 Saab's, 3 911's (SC, abd 2 Carrera's), 5 Mercedes Benz vehicles, and a Toyota Land Cruiser. So I think I have a fairly good idea about cars.
I did my homework when I considered buying a Touareg. Test drove the V-8 and the V-6. Drove the Cayenne, the Volvo, and some others. Read as much as I could on test drives and data. I **stayed away** from message boards such as this.
When I decided to buy my V-6 Touareg, I was pretty confidant in what I was getting. It has been a joy to drive. I have driven it in the wet, in dry conditions, on winding roads, and on highways. I have had it loaded with stuff and kids, and have gone in the mountains, and on the flats. I love this car. I look forward to getting in it and driving it. I have had no problems. No electrical storms, breakdowns, or anything else that would be considered troublesome (I have about 3k miles on it). I have had a few questions, and the service advisor has been great (I will admit that I have known him for about 18 years, and he formerly worked at the MB dealership where I get my cars serviced, and is excellent).
My point is that had I read this board **before** my purchase, I might not have done it, or have been freaked out about breakdowns, poor service, poor dealer response, wrong VIN number,bad computers, wrong sound systems, the car never working, or who knows what else..
Real life has shown while these may (or may not) be real problems to others, they do not relate to my experience. I would wholeheartedly recommend this car with **no** reservations. While your mileage may vary, mt trip has been a smooth one.
I don't deny that there are some who have difficulties, however remember that this board is a limited universe of users, and things can get amplified (in either direction, of course). Unless you know someone personally, and have first hand knowledge, take all of this with a grain of salt (and. to be fair, since you don't know me, I guess that would include these comments, too!!).
There are always exceptions but to my knowledge most who read Town Hall message boards before their purchase usually report great satisfaction at having done so. Reading about other's direct experiences with a vehicle, both positive and negative, provides a more realistic basis for making a decision than any advertising brochure or individual reviewer's report can possibly hope to achieve.
tidester, host
It's great to read about positive experiences, though, because they usually get short shrift here. Thanks for the post, tregowner!
Of course the best research is knowing someone who owns the same vehicle you are planning to buy but when reading these posts, My advice would be to take a few of the "Bad experience" posts and ask the person if they would be willing to chat by email and see if you could get them to provide things like Dealer name, name of service manager, faxed copies from service they have received, etc. You don't want to insult the person or make them feel that they are giving you false information but simply let them know just how serious you are about buying the vehicle. I think that if a person is telling the truth about their "Bad Experience" and take the time to write about it then I believe they would go out of there way to provide all the information they could to keep the person from buying the vehicle, I know I would! The same holds true for the "Good Experience" If a person really loves their vehicle they will talk to you all day about it!
The car the 6cyc X5 was brand new -- a 2003 -- the MSRP was $50K American. The selling price was $42K American.
I don't know anything other than that -- the BMW dealer brought the car to the office, it has never been titled, in an wreck or anything. Left over 2003 is perhaps the best way to put it.
His comments and conclusions seemed under the circumstances to make sense. As I said, for me, the thing that I have come to appreciate probably more emotionally than financially is the full-service for free "Audi" Advantage. The Phaeton will have it; and, the direction seems to be to head down this road -- perhaps 2005 VW's will come this way or perhaps there will be an "option" to purchase this kind of all inclusive (no tipping needed) ownership experience.
I am in no way suggesting I have lost the faith in the Audi/VW family. I am as ever a fan of the brands.
Sorry if I confused y'all -- new BMW, $8K off -- 2003 "left over!"
That is all.
When your decision is based on rational, analytical information gathering, you become a rational, analytical well-educated consumer.
The seller wants you to base your buying decision on emotion alone. By the time you, 'wake up' from your 'gotta have it' emotional stupor the purchase is already made.
I would highly recommend being a rational, analytical shopper. The more info you have, good/bad, the better to make a wise, long-term decision.
Don't buy a vehicle based on emotion alone, you will wake up the next morning and be sorry.
The most frustrating is the Price Only consumer that seldom is aware of what they are buying except what they are paying for it..."Oh, I didn't know it did that", Oh! there are 6 Airbags?" "I thought the Warranty was 2 years/ 24,000 miles"....And so it goes...
BTW, I'm looking hard at a leftover '03fx45 and Infinity has no free maintence program at all.
It might be nice to be a salesperson and have a well informed customer...an informed salesperson is even better. Even worse is when they pretend or even make stuff up.
So I disagree with the poster who stayed away from **these forums**...I think you run the risk of getting a bad car, bad deal and only problems by not learning all you possibly can ahead of time.
If I wanted a soul-less car I would not consider VW's and Audi's (or BMW's or Mercedes or Jaguars or practically any other European brand for that matter) -- I would probably look more toward the Pacific Ocean side of the world.
I know all about the reliability cry that many claim makes their Toyotas and Hondas "the best" -- but, so far, they just don't do a thing for me. I spent three days last week with a very nice Toyota Camry that was well equipped and had power everything and sat nav. The car did nothing for me "emotionally" -- the only bad thing about the car was the radio no matter what I did to it sounded like it was playing through about a 4 inch thick feather pillow. Muffled you say? Oh to rise to only being muffled would have been wonderful -- now where are the tweeters anyway. . .
Buying a leftover is a short term savings that can easily backfire come trade-in time due to added depreciation.
Ahh....I never said that I was not a fully informed consumer. I just mentioned that I chose to gather my information from different sources. I agree that it is important to find out as much information as possible. And, as markcincinnati noted, emotion does creep in to some extent in the process. That's part of what makes buying a new car fun. If we reduced it to an impassive, analytical based process, you wouldn't have nearly th choice that you do now.
However, and this may just be my own take on things, I have discovered that in forums such as this, one needs to separate those who are here to actually gain insight and try to come to a decision, and those who just "hang out".
As for the questions on brakes, no problems here. They actually seem a bit "over responsive", if that is the right word. Quite a big difference from the brakes on my '97 Land Cruiser, which always were a bit soft.
The problem is that when in conditions of different friction for each tire, like mud for instance, the torque will escape to the tire of less friction (traction) and easily get stuck.
Locking differentials are those where one can mechanically connect the right to the left axle in 1 to 1 at will, also if equipped with AWD or 4x4 front to rear locked 1 to 1. A vehicle equipped so will pull with all four tires equally at all times and will have the best traction in off the road situation or snow and ice.
No high volume vehicle will offer this feature because if the driver engages all the lockers on all fours while on the road is easy to break an axle or transmission component, and second when a vehicle is locked on all fours it tends to go straight and resists to turn, at normal driving speeds is dangerous, all because the compensation mechanism is eliminated when in locked mode.
People being people, (some) will engage the lockers while on the road, cause expensive damage and flock to the dealer for repair saying they never engaged the unit or will say the vehicle did it by itself. I guess this could be somehow worked by eliminating the warranty if so equipped but then people will no buy, then there is still the accident liability left, it just not worth it for any manufacturer.