I am looking to buy a 2005 Corolla S Automatic that stickers at $16,697. It only has 2 miles on it, and comes with power windows, locks, cruise control, but has no spoiler or alloy wheels. I could possibly get $15,500 OTD - is this a good deal?
I looked at an LE in Naperville. It was at Carmax though and I didn't like the price. I ended up buying in Chicago. 2005 Corolla LE with 3000 miles. Certified TRAC vehicle. The only options are the All Weather Guard Package and Cruise. I paid $14,000. Oddly enough the guy who sold it to me was named Civic!
I don't think so. I looked at an S with about 3,000 miles on it. The asking was $15,995. The dealer instantly came down to $14,995 and was ready to ink a deal at $13,500.
We can't tell you since we have no idea what taxes a license fees are in your area. You'll need to tell us the price without taxes, plus let us know what city/state you're buying in as pricing varies from region to region.
kirstie_h
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The Inovice price was 17138 and there is a 1000 dollar rebate...
Which makes the price 16138 + TTL...
Is it a good deal ?
How much can I go down..
One other note, The invoice given to me by the dealer, lists base price as 13728 and he adds other things like advt fees, MAF, 2% hold back, port hold back fleet financing...which of these additional prices are negotiable..
Let me know soon..(The rebate gets over this weekend)
The general rule is that if a fee, like destination or advertising fee, is listed on the factory invoice, it's not likely negotiable.
Anything else like the cost of options, or fees added on by the dealer (e.g., documentation fee) are negotiable.
kirstie_h
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I purchased a 2005 Toyoto LE with 6 disk JBL changer, sunroof, ABS, and side airbags. I got it through Costco using the invoice price which was about 1500 less than the MSRP. I further negotiated another 1000 off and with tax(about $1100, licensing, and registration was OTD at an even $18,000. I have been told I got a very good deal in Central Florida. Does anyone have an opinion on my deal. I like to think I did well but one never knows. Captain D
I would say that you did, my S was 17.5 OTD but I didn't get a sunroof or a cd-changer (not like I wanted them). However you have to play the market that you're in, and when you only have 6 Toyota dealers in a 150mile radius, its pretty much a sellers market. Local dealer's price was only 80 bucks higher than everyone elses, and why drive 150miles to save 4 20s?
I got mine for $18,000 even OTD. I sincerely believe I could have done better. When he totals it all up - say $17,800 (includes TTR) tell him you will pay $17,200 out the door right now. He will take your offer to the sales manager and come back about $450 more than 17,200. Get up to leave because you are going to go to the next Toyota dealer. He will probably sit you down and give you your price. Anything under $18,000 for what you describe is good. If you finance remember 36 month rate is about 4.12%, 48 months is about 4.75% through Toyota. Tell them you already have a rate and it is about .15% below the ones I show above. They should either match it or come in about .15% below the above rates. Everything is negotiable. If you can't get it done at that dealer try another one. When you sit down with the accountant don't let him get you to purchase anythin else. Those warranty extentions, insurance, etc. are all a ripoff.
I was offered a corolla S for $15900 OTD. Includes: alloy wheels, 6-disc cd changer and spoiler. Is that a good deal? Has anyone got a better offer? Thanks
I decided to buy a Corolla today. Where did you buy your Corolla, and at what price? Any dealer you can recommend? I am divided between a CE and LE. I only need to add the power windows and doors options to the CE, that's all I need from the LE. Would the overall price cost less than the LE? Any tips, advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Also, if someone can explain to me how they come up with the monthly payment, that would be great. Is that compunded interest, simple, mixed, I got no clue. Thanks again!
Following is breakdown of what I just paid in Houston, TX.
Based upon research, I considered this a fair deal.
2005 Corolla CE Automatic base MSRP on window sticker: $14,480 Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $13,484
6 Disc CD changer MSRP on window sticker: $200 Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $150
Carpet mat set (Floor and Trunk) MSRP on window sticker: $147 Floor mats, Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $54 Trunk mat, Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $35
Destination Charge MSRP on window sticker: $585 Edmunds and Kelley: $540 Kelley: Additional Gulf States Freight: $35
Total MSRP on window sticker: $15,412 Edmunds/Kelley invoice + Destination: $14,298 Kelley suggested blue book without Cash Back/Rebate: $14,727 Kelley suggested blue book with $1000 Cash Back/Rebate: $14,500
Selling price: $14,450
Rebate / Cash back: $1000
Taxable difference: $13,450
Sales Tax on $13,450 (6.25%): $840.63 Dealer Inventory Tax on $13,450: $33.77 Document Fee: $50 2yr State Inspection: $21.75 License: $70.80 Title Transfer: $33
Extended warranty: Declined, due to excellent reputation of Toyota Corolla
Vandergriff Toyota, Dallas Toyota, and Lewisville Toyota are all honoring the Vandergriff ad which is posted in the Dallas Morning News. - I got my 2005 Corolla CE with power locks, CD, mats for $12,825 + TTL yesterday. They claim that the sale ended yesterday, but it's worth checking the paper to see for sure. Star Toyota in Houston also has similar pricing advertised. - The catch is that you finance about half and it and it has a baloon payment at the end of the loan. You can however pay it all off when you get the payment booklet including the balloon payment at the end and you are only out about $60. in intrest.
I forgot to add that I had no trade in and was not required to put any money down. I was able to put $3,000. down though on my credit card for the air miles. I'm thinking a cash back card would have been nice, but I don't have one yet. - Good deal for those who pay off their credit cards each month or are paying the car off in cash or other loan.
I spent less than 2 hours at the dealer and they delivered it to my home for me. I bought mine at Dallas Toyota on Forest and 635. They were very polite.
I am interested in either an S or LE and wondered what the advantages would be Want the following: Automatic Side Airbags ABS vehicle stability Floor mats
I think I can get this for about $15800-16000 before rebates/trade in OR.
1) Bought a Toyota LE, Automatic, with ABS, Side Air Bags, All Weather Guard, and Audio Value Package (Cruise Control and 6 CD-changer)
2) The MSRP is $17,645
3) edmunds lists invoice as 15,954.
4) Agreed to price of $15,900 (including destination charge). In retrospect, I think I could have gotten them at least $100 lower. As soon as I got up to leave the dealership, they immediately agreed to my price. The stupid thing is that I had planned ahead of time to accept no more than $15,800. Lesson: don't let the dealer throw you off your original plan! You can always come back to the dealer later if you decide to go up in your price. (Note: Edmunds suggests that "TMV" is $75 more than average in my area). If corolla4me can get all this plus Stability Control for the same price, then I am impressed and must have paid $400 too much (does corolla4me's estimate include destination?)
5) Chose 0% financing instead of $500 rebate. Also paid $341 for document/title/license fees and $1411 in sales tax (ouch). So my Grand Total $$ paid was $17,652.
One weird thing: I thought the car was supposed to come with Floor Mats. Is it possible that they took them out w/o telling me? Is there some way to verify that my VIN number was shipped with floor mats?
Also: Any advice on whether the prepaid maintenence is worth it? ($995 for 4yrs/100Kmiles)
They also offered to extend the warranty to 7yrs/100Kmiles with $0 deductible for $900, which is $200 lower than MSRP. Is that worth it?
I actually bought these two deals and put them on my 0% APR on the understanding that I could cancel within 30 days. So should I cancel one or both of them?
Any advice on Anti-Theft devices for someone living in a city?
I believe I was overly optimistic about the price. NOw I think 16300. I am also considering Anti Theft and extended warranty as I plan to drive the car for 10-15 years hopefully. Was your price with the $1000 incentive. Floor mats are from the dealer so they should have come.
There is no $1000 incentive in my area. For me, the March deal was: either $500 rebate or 0% financing for 36 months (or 1.9% for 48 or 3.9% for 60). I chose the 0%, so I paid the full 15900.
The agreed to price of 15900 was BEFORE any rebates (and I was not charged for dealer prep, advertising or anything like that), so you should be able to do at least this well, plus, of course, the price of vehicle stability, which invoices at $559. And like I said, I think I could have got them lower.
Although you might have a problem actually GETTING a car with all the things you want. I would check out buyatoyota.com and, after entering your Zip, click "Build Your Toyota" to see the "regional builds" for your area. Maybe the dealer can special order exactly what you want, I don't know. I also do not what special ordering would do as far as your ability to haggle your price.
If you get the warranty, note that the price is negotiable. Make sure to say no at first. That'll save you a couple hundred $$ right there! MSRP is 1100; I got it for $900, and maybe they would have gone down further.
I believe I was wrong about the car coming with mats: I found the sticker in the glove box.
Driveaway price of 12724, including $500 rebate for a new 05 Corolla CE, 5 spd, floor mats, Silver Streak. I live in Maine- got prices from the Maine Telegram Sunday Paper and verified best price over the phone. One dealer had advertised in the paper for 12199 for the base CE, but turned out it was a come-on and no such vehicle existed. What they had to sell turned out to be over 1000 more. I also verified dealer invoice price on Edmunds.com and kbb.com. Got the best real price verified over the phone from a dealer 25 miles away (under invoice) then contacted the local dealer who I had already spoken to about my needs. He did not have a 5 speed on the lot, only automatics, but traded one in the next day and when I went down to try it out, they agreed to match the "best" price of the other dealers.
Very simple process- got the exact vehicle I wanted at a fair price, and no haggling or hassle. Best buying experience I have had on any new vehicle. Ya gotta do your homework first!
It probably helped that I had already purchased another vehicle from another division (Pontiac Vibe) last year year from this dealer and have been a good customer for parts and service. Having good relationships do help you out in the long run!!
My dad lives in Vancouver and he is looking at buying a Toyota Corolla. His current car is a 1979 Cutlass and he hates negotiating with the dealer. I plan to visit him this summer and help him buy the car. Where can I find dealer costs for Canadian cars? I found one site but they wanted $40 CDN for that information.
Sat. my sis and I went to look at cars at Toyota of Plano. Have you ever heard of them?
The Lord willing, I want to pay cash for a 2005 Corolla LE. However, what is your opinion of the protrusion of the headrests in the back seat? On my Honda, there is no visibility issue AT ALL. But, on the Corolla the headrests take up a lot of the back window view.
If we can't come to a price agreement at Toyota of Plano I was going to try Toyota of Richardson and then Toyota of Dallas. I need to move quickly in order to get the 1K rebate from Toyota by the 4th.
No trade-in also - I just want to place an ad in Auto Trader for my Honda because of the low miles. I have been told I can get more for it that way.
I'm in suburban Chicago. I saw a 2005 Corolla S with a spoiler, alloy wheel and CD changer option. The MSRP for this option was $1,680 with a $750 deduction for a net of $930. I couldn't find this option on either Edmunds or KBB to get the invoice amount. I estimated it to be 85% of MSRP It has a sun roof. floor mats and weather guard. The bottom line MSRP is $17,902. Using Edmunds, the invoice would be $16,093. The car has 2,500 miles on it. The dealer said it doesn't qualify as a demo because it doesn't have 6K. He offered it for $15,900 B4 tax, title & fees. Is this good or should the 2,500 miles be worth more of a deduction?
i'm from southern california, near Los Angeles and i was wondering if $14,700 before rebate and taxes and all that is a good deal for a Corolla LE with JBL value package and floor mats.
one of the dealers i went to get it down to 14,700-- because that's what i got from a price quote from another place--says that that was already cutting $1000 into their invoice price, which meant they were losing profit, but i'm not really believing him. does anyone know what should a corolla with those packages be going for?
I just bought a 2005 Corolla S in Nashua, NH. The price all together was $16k. The car has power sun/moonroof, power everything, cruise, 6-CD changer in-dash, AC, 5-speed, spoiler, 15 inch alloys, and floor/cargo mats.
Question about the floor mats: In the brochure, the Corolla S definitely shows in at least one picture the floor mats in a Corolla S having the "S" in red, after the "Corolla" logo. My mats do not have the red "S", and I am wondering if maybe it's just a brochure thing that really isn't delivered with these cars.
The salesperson claimed to not know anything about Corolla "S" mats. Anyone know about this?
Many thanks in advance for information.
By the way, I have only had the car a couple days, but for a point A to point B car, it's a great little car. And the sales experience was good also.
I can't comment on all the specific options being mentioned here, but in my experience (see previous post) you will be paying to much unless you pay at least $100 less than the INVOICE price, which you can research here on Edmunds. That is the price you should pay BEFORE any rebates. And you should possibly be paying even less than that: that's just the deal I got.
15% off the MSRP will get you the invoive price, which will be an OK deal, but I think that they're catching on to the increased knowledge of buyers and therefore arrange things so that selling the car at slightly above invoice price will still make them a nice profit. But they can still make a profit even if they sell the car BELOW invoice price due to various unseen dealer incentives etc. I bought my car for slightly below the invoice price, and what I've been trying to tell people here is that they can do even better than that, probably $200 or at the very least $100 below invoice. That means you should really be getting between 17% and 18% off the MSRP, regardless of their complaints about "losing money" on the deal.
Aloha all! I'm new here, so please forgive any posting errors.
I'm looking to purchase a 2005 Toyota (either Corolla CE or LE - haven't made up my mind yet). I was wondering how much difference it would make for me to wait until August, or so, when the new 2006 models come out. Will the the price difference be significant because the dealers want to get the "old" models out?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. These forums are great!
I just bought a 2005 Corolla LE. My drive away price was $19,110.64. The options that I got on the car are 1. the all weather guard package, 2. anti-lock brakes, 3. driver and passenger side and curtain air bags, 4. audio value package - am/fm/in dash cd with 6 speakers., 5. 4 floor mats., 6. I also got the extended warranty - 5 years/ 100,000; 7. and I got the first place finish -- where they put a coating over your paint and below the car. I am inexperienced in buying cars. Did I get an OK price?
Does anyone have info on DARCARS in maryland their internet price s seem very competitive way below invoice and I go by there 2 or 3 times year any help would be appreciated
....I know 44k is a lot of miles for an '03, but it's the color and has the options and transmission (manuals are almost impossible to find in Chicago) I want, and the price seems decent. Anyone know if one can purchase an extended warranty on a used vehicle with 44k? Any opinions on the car or the price?
quicknote: this forum has been useful for me in the past and thanks to all those here who have helped me out.
I was looking for Corolla CE Auto. Got a confirmed offer for that with the convienance package, weather package, floor mats for 13902/- driveaway price. I went in yes'day, he didn't have the color, so wrote up the sales order and I put down a small deposit. (this is near Philly, PA).
You guys think this is a fiar price? I just put down the deposit, so if I have doubts, I can back out. I have been negotiating with other dealers in the area, but I just moved here 6 months ago, so have no idea about area workings. So I am hoping the experts here would chime in
I have seen and driven one of these and am thinking of buying one, just waiting for a Black Sand Mica with 5-speed and no options to show up on a dealer lot. Have determined the invoice after rebate for that model will be $12,534 and Edmund's TMV comes out to $12,871. The biggest obstacle I see to overcome will be that every Toyota dealer around here adds $900-$1500 of garbage to their cars, in the forms of pinstriping, tint, paint sealant, and VIN etching. The Toyota dealers in Plano, Richardson, Dallas, Grapevine, and Lewisville all do this. I suppose I'd have to have them wait for the next one to come in, then drive it off the truck and not touch it? This is what my friend did on her new Sentra 1.8S/SE, the dealer had several but they had junk on them, and she waited 3 weeks for an untouched one to arrive. I still want my windows tinted, but not for $299 or $399 or whatever. I'll have a shop do it for $150 or so.
Comments
Thanks!
- Alex
Just purchased a
Toyota Corolla CE
5-speed, A/C, AM/FM/CD
$11,888
- 500 rebate = $11,388
Total after taxes, MV and delivery = $12,700
Its a toyota corrola le
-leather interior
-abs
-sunroof
-6 disc chnager
the sticker price was 19,900.00
the out the door with taxes and everything is 16,200.00
* Just wondering how this sounds? is she overpaying? thanks
-liz
kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I am in Austin and I am looking at
2005 Corolla LE (Auto transmission)
With side air bags, ABS, Al wheels package (A1),
rear spoiler and mats.
The Inovice price was 17138 and there is a 1000 dollar rebate...
Which makes the price 16138 + TTL...
Is it a good deal ?
How much can I go down..
One other note, The invoice given to me by the dealer, lists base price as 13728 and he adds other things like advt fees, MAF, 2% hold back, port hold back fleet financing...which of these additional prices are negotiable..
Let me know soon..(The rebate gets over this weekend)
Anything else like the cost of options, or fees added on by the dealer (e.g., documentation fee) are negotiable.
kirstie_h
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Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Do you think its a good deal. ANYONE here buy a Corolla CE lower than that price.
thanks for reply
Samuel
1) Car Modal with Options
2) MSRP
3) Invoice
4) Haggled price
5) APR if financed
Good Jobber, MM
Vince
PS The car is fantastic!
Includes: alloy wheels, 6-disc cd changer and spoiler. Is that a good deal? Has anyone got a better offer?
Thanks
I decided to buy a Corolla today. Where did you buy your Corolla, and at what price?
Any dealer you can recommend?
I am divided between a CE and LE. I only need to add the power windows and doors options to the CE, that's all I need from the LE. Would the overall price cost less than the LE?
Any tips, advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Based upon research, I considered this a fair deal.
2005 Corolla CE Automatic base
MSRP on window sticker: $14,480
Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $13,484
6 Disc CD changer
MSRP on window sticker: $200
Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $150
Carpet mat set (Floor and Trunk)
MSRP on window sticker: $147
Floor mats, Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $54
Trunk mat, Edmunds and Kelley invoice: $35
Destination Charge
MSRP on window sticker: $585
Edmunds and Kelley: $540
Kelley: Additional Gulf States Freight: $35
Total MSRP on window sticker: $15,412
Edmunds/Kelley invoice + Destination: $14,298
Kelley suggested blue book without Cash Back/Rebate: $14,727
Kelley suggested blue book with $1000 Cash Back/Rebate: $14,500
Selling price: $14,450
Rebate / Cash back: $1000
Taxable difference: $13,450
Sales Tax on $13,450 (6.25%): $840.63
Dealer Inventory Tax on $13,450: $33.77
Document Fee: $50
2yr State Inspection: $21.75
License: $70.80
Title Transfer: $33
Extended warranty: Declined,
due to excellent reputation of Toyota Corolla
Grand Total/Balance Due: $14,499.95
Thanks.
Want the following:
Automatic
Side Airbags
ABS
vehicle stability
Floor mats
I think I can get this for about $15800-16000 before rebates/trade in OR.
Please advise re price/model. Thanks!
2) The MSRP is $17,645
3) edmunds lists invoice as 15,954.
4) Agreed to price of $15,900 (including destination charge). In retrospect, I think I could have gotten them at least $100 lower. As soon as I got up to leave the dealership, they immediately agreed to my price. The stupid thing is that I had planned ahead of time to accept no more than $15,800. Lesson: don't let the dealer throw you off your original plan! You can always come back to the dealer later if you decide to go up in your price. (Note: Edmunds suggests that "TMV" is $75 more than average in my area). If corolla4me can get all this plus Stability Control for the same price, then I am impressed and must have paid $400 too much (does corolla4me's estimate include destination?)
5) Chose 0% financing instead of $500 rebate. Also paid $341 for document/title/license fees and $1411 in sales tax (ouch). So my Grand Total $$ paid was $17,652.
One weird thing: I thought the car was supposed to come with Floor Mats. Is it possible that they took them out w/o telling me? Is there some way to verify that my VIN number was shipped with floor mats?
Also: Any advice on whether the prepaid maintenence is worth it? ($995 for 4yrs/100Kmiles)
They also offered to extend the warranty to 7yrs/100Kmiles with $0 deductible for $900, which is $200 lower than MSRP. Is that worth it?
I actually bought these two deals and put them on my 0% APR on the understanding that I could cancel within 30 days. So should I cancel one or both of them?
Any advice on Anti-Theft devices for someone living in a city?
The agreed to price of 15900 was BEFORE any rebates (and I was not charged for dealer prep, advertising or anything like that), so you should be able to do at least this well, plus, of course, the price of vehicle stability, which invoices at $559. And like I said, I think I could have got them lower.
Although you might have a problem actually GETTING a car with all the things you want. I would check out buyatoyota.com and, after entering your Zip, click "Build Your Toyota" to see the "regional builds" for your area. Maybe the dealer can special order exactly what you want, I don't know. I also do not what special ordering would do as far as your ability to haggle your price.
If you get the warranty, note that the price is negotiable. Make sure to say no at first. That'll save you a couple hundred $$ right there! MSRP is 1100; I got it for $900, and maybe they would have gone down further.
I believe I was wrong about the car coming with mats: I found the sticker in the glove box.
Very simple process- got the exact vehicle I wanted at a fair price, and no haggling or hassle. Best buying experience I have had on any new vehicle. Ya gotta do your homework first!
It probably helped that I had already purchased another vehicle from another division (Pontiac Vibe) last year year from this dealer and have been a good customer for parts and service. Having good relationships do help you out in the long run!!
I appreciate your help.
Sat. my sis and I went to look at cars at Toyota of Plano. Have you ever heard of them?
The Lord willing, I want to pay cash for a 2005 Corolla LE. However, what is your opinion of the protrusion of the headrests in the back seat? On my Honda, there is no visibility issue AT ALL. But, on the Corolla the headrests take up a lot of the back window view.
If we can't come to a price agreement at Toyota of Plano I was going to try Toyota of Richardson and then Toyota of Dallas. I need to move quickly in order to get the 1K rebate from Toyota by the 4th.
No trade-in also - I just want to place an ad in Auto Trader for my Honda because of the low miles. I have been told I can get more for it that way.
Any advice from anyone is appreciated. Thanks.
Please advise.
one of the dealers i went to get it down to 14,700-- because that's what i got from a price quote from another place--says that that was already cutting $1000 into their invoice price, which meant they were losing profit, but i'm not really believing him. does anyone know what should a corolla with those packages be going for?
thanks for any input.
Local dealer has a Corolla LE 2005 4 door sedan, automatic, power windows. MFRP $16,699.
How much should I pay for??
Thanks for reply.
Question about the floor mats: In the brochure, the Corolla S definitely shows in at least one picture the floor mats in a Corolla S having the "S" in red, after the "Corolla" logo. My mats do not have the red "S", and I am wondering if maybe it's just a brochure thing that really isn't delivered with these cars.
The salesperson claimed to not know anything about Corolla "S" mats. Anyone know about this?
Many thanks in advance for information.
By the way, I have only had the car a couple days, but for a point A to point B car, it's a great little car. And the sales experience was good also.
Shop around to other dealerships, and see what you can get for a brand new one.
I'm new here, so please forgive any posting errors.
I'm looking to purchase a 2005 Toyota (either Corolla CE or LE - haven't made up my mind yet). I was wondering how much difference it would make for me to wait until August, or so, when the new 2006 models come out. Will the the price difference be significant because the dealers want to get the "old" models out?
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. These forums are great!
Also, go on the last day of the month.
carbuyingtips.com has some good suggestions.
$16269 + tax + title
Corolla LE Automatic
All weather guard package
Audio Value package
Driver & Passenger Side Airbags
Anti-Lock Brakes
Thanks...
I am inexperienced in buying cars. Did I get an OK price?
corolla LE automatic
All weather guard package
Audio value package
ABS & Side airbags
I wonder how much is the best price i can get for that? Is 15.4k reasonable?
Also, can I refuse to pay for the floor mats since I don't need them?
Thanks in advance!!
....I know 44k is a lot of miles for an '03, but it's the color and has the options and transmission (manuals are almost impossible to find in Chicago) I want, and the price seems decent. Anyone know if one can purchase an extended warranty on a used vehicle with 44k? Any opinions on the car or the price?
quicknote: this forum has been useful for me in the past and thanks to all those here who have helped me out.
I was looking for Corolla CE Auto. Got a confirmed offer for that with the convienance package, weather package, floor mats for 13902/- driveaway price. I went in yes'day, he didn't have the color, so wrote up the sales order and I put down a small deposit. (this is near Philly, PA).
You guys think this is a fiar price? I just put down the deposit, so if I have doubts, I can back out. I have been negotiating with other dealers in the area, but I just moved here 6 months ago, so have no idea about area workings. So I am hoping the experts here would chime in
thanks....