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Something to consider!
I vacationed in a 27' Class C motorhome on a 350 chassis with a V-10 a couple of years ago, and was amazed at the amount of gas it used in the mountains. On the order of 7-8 mpg. Going over a 10,000' pass in Utah, my wife offered to get out and push. Went all the way down to first gear. No guts at altitude. I was sorely disappointed.
My choice now is an F350 SuperDuty Crew with 7.3L diesel. (Don't go away, read the rest of the message...;-)
It isn't noisy on the road, It isn't smelly on the road, and it rarely kicks out of overdrive when I drive through the mountains. I leave it on cruise control and it just reaches a little deeper into the torque bucket and muscles it's way up the hill, with or without a load.
It's not about horsepower, it's about torque. Period. And I have 500 ft-lbs on tap. As for towing, if I can hook it up, I can tow it.
My diesel has NEVER given me less than 14 mpg. On the open (flat) road I get 19-20 mpg. I calculate that it saves me about $1200 a year in fuel costs, based on 30k miles/yr. That's a lot of cash. For that much, I can put up with a little bit of clatter at a stoplight. I just roll up the window and hit the A/C.
Just thought you might want to consider these facts. The diesels are really good trucks. Do yourself a favor and test-drive some (any brand) and be honest with your evaluation. The gas engines, even Bamatundra's supercharged Toyota's, won't be able to hold a candle to the diesels in overall performance and economy. You might be surprised... you might even change your mind...
JT
No Ford Lightning....I live in Colorado. I need a 4X4
jdtopper: Thanks for your input. Maybe I will check out the diesels. I just doubt I'll be able to handle all that metal clanking and stink. When you start it up in the garage how do you handle the foul oder? I don't know, they just remind me too much of a John Deere tractor. Do they offer a hay bailer and tiller option? (just kidding)
It has a built-in block heater, but I've never had to use it. It starts just fine, even on a 10,000' mountain top in the middle of deer season under a foot of snow and freezing my butt off. Two batteries are standard equipment. It cranks over easier at altitude, as does every internal combustion engine, because the air is less dense up there. You won't have any problem at all in CO.
When I bought my 350, I knew that I would be keeping it for a very long time, and didn't want to limit my options. If I had it to do over, I would probably go with the F250, just for the somewhat softer ride. It's pretty unlikely that I will ever reach capacity load with the 350, or even with the 250. With the Crew cab and a hard tonneau cover, I can take just about anybody or anything I want with me and keep everything dry. It's so big inside, I almost need an intercom for the back seat...
By the way, mine IS a 4x4, so the mileages I quoted yesterday are realistic for your situation. If it were two-wheel drive, they would be even better. Check 'em out.
Good posts jdtopper!
Tom
The Tacoma is rated to tow 5000lb. This guy is talking about towing 3500 - a cake walk for a Tacoma. There are many, many people who tow this weight or greater with their Tacomas.
If you are feeling inadequate and want a bigger truck - then get a Tundra. 3500lb would be less than half its tow rating. Truckworld connected a 5000lb boat to a Tundra and said that they had to keep checking their mirrors to see that there was anything back there. You would still be blowing by normally aspirated 8.1L Chevs in the passes.
I don't know how else you can get a supercharged engine and still get 40% more powertrain warranty than any other truck on the road. Even a V6 supercharged will outperform much larger normally aspirated V8 vehicles at altitude.
Personally - If I wanted to tow 3500lb at 10,000 ft. altitude, I would wait till summer and plunk down $3500 for a factory approved supercharger for my V8 Tundra. It would be fun to embarass Chev 8.1L and Ford V10 trucks in the passes.
As far as brakes go, Chev's 1500HD which is rated to haul 2800lb took 32ft farther than a Tundra to stop when both were loaded with just 1000lb. I would rather have a Tundra in the mountains or anywhere else than their wimpy excuse for a so-called HD pickup.
2)A supercharged 8.1 puts out 476 HP and 637 LB of torque.(Whipple's figures)
3)Nobody who's ever towed 3500 lb with a Taco recomends driving in the mountains or launching a boat with it.
Forced INDUCTION-you bet,but Taco,no way and Tundra,not yet.(and they STILL have half ton brakes)
kip
So at an altitude of 10,000ft, power would decrease 30%.
Like it or not, Bama has a point about superchargers being beneficial to high-altitude conditions, and the only manufacturer offering a warranty on a supercharged engine is Toyota.
heck, if you want to talk about tow ratings for small trucks, your little tacoma's max. rating of 5000 is still 650 lbs. less than a 4.0 ranger. add a paxton or vortech s/c WITH warranty and you're still under any tacoma price with a "factory" s/c. now you've even got more horsepower and torque than a s/c'd taco and more moolaa left over.
Your Toymachismo has destroyed any objectivity you ever had. You show up in every discussion about trucks bragging about how much better a Toy can do whatever is being discussed. Some things, yes. Everything, no. Towing ANYTHING is a "NO".
Tom
On the way out I stopped by and and talked with 2 tech's. One guy said "If it was my truck I wouldn't". The other said "Go by a diesel or a big V-8"
Another thing is that anybody that thinks you can tow a 3500# anything with a light duty truck they are a hazard on the highway. If you ask people that tow a lot they will tell you they are very sensitive about what is going on with the trailer at all times. I know I can tell if the safety chains on the trailer are crossed or not just from the sound that they make going down the highway.
kip
I know you claim there aren't any real mountains east of Miss, but I've been in gas cars/trucks that had to downshift through the WV turnpike with nothing more than a couple passengers and luggage. I've got to have a pretty big load on before my Ram comes out of OD on any of the "hills". I've pulled with a SD diesel with manual tranny through that stretch, and with 11000# on, I came out of 6th twice, and 5th once mainly because some moron slowed me down.
If Bama ever tried to pull 3500# across 64 in WV with his taco, the second thing he'd do in Charleston, WV is trade for a full size truck. You're right, lariat. They aren't 10,000 feet, but they will let you know the difference between a capable tow vehicle and a pretender.
Tom
The centrifugal S/C is a lot like a turbo but driven by a belt. The positive displacement(or roots) will give instant throttle response.
In fact, I think the main reason I don't like turbo diesels is because of turbo lag. I don't know if it is still true but a lot of OTR tractors used positive displacement blowers. They were categorized by cylinders and displacement; 6-71, 8-71, 12-71 etc. These are the direct cousins of the blowers used on Top fuel dragsters(and on my boat)
I will agree on the centrifugal blowers needing to wind up, but there are none used in production vehicles as far as I know(GM 3.8, Ford 3.8, Ford 5.4 all use roots type blowers)And I can assure you a 5.4 lightning motor makes more power from idle to redline with less static compression than its N/A brother.
kip
I just hope I'm not in front of you when you get to the bottom, because you will not be able to stop once the brake fluid begins to boil as your rotors are glowing red from all that heat.
bama The Allison transmission used in my GMC had problems with the Electronic Valve Body and TCM .It kinda pisses me off that Allison wanted the trans out of my truck for research,instead of "reflashing" the TCM.This SAME GEAR-BOX With Vacuume valve body has been used in ISUZU trucks up to 26k GVW for ten years very succesfully.INn short .The Allison isn't weak but the first year in pickups had programming problems.I'm not slamming your choice in pickups.To me ALL the half ton trucks on the market are CARS,but if you keep up with the "if you need open heart surgery and Toyota don't do it ,you're gonna die"postings we're all going to keep laughing at you.
kip
kip
Tom
Let's see - Mrb12, KG12, and Tom12 (the DIRTY 12) all insist that you must have at least a 3/4ton GM to tow 3500lb.
This just shows how weak the Chevs are: I want to tow with 3500lb. The Chev 1/2 ton is rated at 8500lb. The (DIRTY 12) insist that you need at least a 3/4 ton Chev to tow 3500lb. WTF?
My driving style is as I reported it: I baby the thing, use cruise control at the speed limit (or less, if the limit is more than 65 mph) and don't get myself into panic stop situations. That's why I don't understand the warped rotor thing.
I've never checked on the lug nut torque question, but you can bet I'll be calling the dealer today. Meanwhile, I'm at 40k miles total, my rotors have been turned twice, and I'm still at 75% on my original front pads. Doesn't make sense to me.
I'm wondering - can you tell me that Ford will replace the shrapnel that occurs when you put a supercharger on one of their vehicles while it is still under warranty? It seems to me that unless the supercharger was factory authorized, your [non-permissible content removed] would be grass.
1. Did you really want to tow over 10000 ft?
2. Did you really want to tow 3500lb?
I suggested a solution which would involve a V6 engine and a compact or 1/2 ton truck. I am not trying to tell you what to tow with below 10,000 ft.
My suggestion since you want margin is to tow with a Tundra with a supercharged V6. If you can wait for summer, then a supercharged V8 is better.
jrs400f....Bama's right about the S/C at altitude. When the normally aspirated gassers are gasping for air, the S/C V-6 will be stronger for pulling. But, you are also right about towing, and towing safely.
Tom
It's obvious that you don't use your brakes to their limit, or you wouldn't still have 75% of the pads left. Something else is causing the warped rotors. This may be a stupid question, but in my younger wilder days I had to learn this one the hard way. Do you drive through any water or spray cold water on your rotors immediately after heating them up? Such as maybe driving to the car wash?
I used to road race motorcycles at AFM events in my former life, so I have a fair amount of experience with hot brakes, fading, and boiling fluid. With that in mind, I don't think I get my rotors "hot", ever... and there's not a lot of water on the roads here in sunny California, so I can't envision thermal shock as a cause.
From what I've heard so far, lug torque is the most plausible reason, though the dealer swears that torque was the first thing they checked. What they claim they do and what they actually do might be two different things. I notice, for example, that the tire pressure is always about 5-7 p.s.i. less than the Ford recommended pressure whenever I get it back after service. I'll be checking my own lugs in the future.
Question: Why did you want to know if mine was SRW or DRW? What difference would/does that make, especially since it is my front rotors that are warping?
I can't say for sure if that is your problem, I just know that can be a problem on other vehicles.
The cold water thing was something that happened to me once. I drove a car to the car wash. When I put my money in, I immediately started to clean the tires and wheels. Well, you can guess what happened to the rotors when all that cold water hit those hot rotors, the car did the hoochie-coochie all the way to the parts store.
While this was not one of my wiser moves, it does provide an example of bamas suggestion that a toy will tow a trailer where you want to go.
My 2002 had a 4 cyl two litre (121 cu in) engine that churned out 106 hp when new. At this point, it was not new.
I made the trip with little drama (except on a turn during a serious rain near St. Louis after getting off the freeway, THAT was interesting...) and managed to keep up with the OTR trucks on the highways, even up hill. Now, this did include some pulls in second gear at higher rpm keeping pace with those trucks.
Would I do it again? I don't think so.
Would I consider doing it again in the likes of a compact truck? While I know that it would work with no expected problems, No. Not today, not likely tomorrow, thank you very much. Just because you can, doesn't make it an intelligent thing to do.
Have a good evening
Frank K
In almost all states if you tow over 2000lb, trailer brakes are required. You had none. Not too smart!
You claim that you towed this dangerous rig across country and not only you survived, but you didn't kill anybody. Hooray!
Now, we are talking about towing 3500lb with a truck rated to tow 5000lb. It is well within its max ratings.
While it is not as stable as 1/2 or 3/4 ton trucks, it is adequate and will blow the doors off of them at 10,000 ft.
The fact that a supercharged V6 will have 40% more powertrain warranty than the Big2 is just a bonus.
I do have some personal experience towing at altitude up steep hills with both Toyotas and full size trucks. Bama get out your tissues.
I live in Utah, so I know a thing or 2 about high altitude and towing. I-80 about 30 miles east of Salt Lake City (4300 ft elevation) goes over Parley's Summit (around 9000 ft).
At one point I owned a 3200# boat, which I pulled over this pass and many others many times with several different vehicles. Two of those vehicles were Toyotas. Both had the 3.4L v-6 and 5spd manual trannys, one was a Taco 2wd, the other a 4 Runner 4wd. Much to my suprise they did pull the load rather well going up 35-40 MPH at the top in 3rd gear. Going down the other side was scarry as hell, the trailer only had a surge type brake, and pushed the truck all over. The only way to combat this was to go slower than 40 all the way down. It was not much fun.
The full size trucks I towed with were a 67 Chev 1/2 ton 2wd auto, and a 76 Chev Blazer auto. These both towed up at around the same speed 40 mph in 2nd gear (3 speed auto trannies). Going down the other side, had no real drama, just let the rig roll up to 65-70.
As I pointed out at the first, having more gear ratios to chose from when towing up a hill makes a much bigger difference than an extra 20 HP or ft/lbs.
CATAM Your Toyota towing experience was very much like mine.My boat is 4000lb so uphill was a little slower(alot of 2nd gear 20-25 mph) and down hill was terrifying even at 35,the boat did all the steering.Poor Bama isn't ready to face the reality the rest of us live in.When I posted this info,he called me a liar.
Bama Don't Hate...It makes you ugly.
kip
Bama it's kind of like this: My 600lb 400cc atv will and has pulled a 2000lb auto trailer around a short distance but I don't want to try to pull it down the interstate at 70mph......unless of course I put a supercharger on the atv!! LOL!
ROTFLMAO
Tom