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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Are you talking about the G sedan or coupe? I found very little diff between the 330 sedan and coupe, but a big diff between the G coupe and sedan. I know this is a sedan comparo, so I agree that the BMW sedan is superior. But coupe versus coupe, I don't think the 330ci is superior to the G coupe.
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I try to forget i ever had the misfortune of driving either the G35c or 330ci. Not my bag.
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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I am surprised, these are great cars, sedan or coupe. What is your bag? :surprise:
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The coupes have too much chassis flex. And in the G35c outward vision is compromised too much. It makes the BMW seem almost pleasant for outward vision. Almost.

    BTW, you're not gonna catch me calling either car great. ;) Great would be some mythical blend of perfect comfort, poise, power, handling, reliability. Can't say BMW or Infiniti has all of that.
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  • taxesquiretaxesquire Posts: 681
    Great would be some mythical blend of perfect comfort, poise, power, handling, reliability. Can't say BMW or Infiniti has all of that.

    The TL does!!! ;)
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    poise and handling = not to my liking in a TL. It's too heavy, too big , wrong wheel driven and way too soft for me. I know you love it. Enjoy.
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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I agree, that describes the TL perfectly. :P

    The TL too big? I guess some would think so, try an 06 IS, might be a good fit, but I think it's too small.
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Or the IS350 is missing a key ingredient: manual.

    I'll still try one. It'd take something mighty persuasive to get me into a run-of-the-mill automatic. If the car had a dsg-style tranny, then it'd be a total contender for my dollar. But a straight automatic? If the IS350 loaded costs 30k, then I'd seriously consider buying one with a craptastic automatic. Otherwise, the drive is just to quiet my curiosity.
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  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    A car that sporty with no MT??? That's strange, and I think a mistake.
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  • ivorypearlgivorypearlg Posts: 53
    2006 330i Sedan
    Destination Charge
    $695
    Exterior
    Monaco Blue Metallic
    $475
    Interior
    Gray Dakota Leather
    Included
    Aluminum Trim
    Packages
    Sport Package
    $1,600
    Premium Package
    $2,200
    Cold Weather Package
    $1,000
    MSRP
    $36,300
    Price as configured
    $46,265
    Options
    STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
    $1,275
    On-Board Navigation System w/iDrive
    $2,000
    Satellite Radio
    $595
    Carpeted Floor Mats
    $125
    That was with none of the interesting gizmos $46,265.00

    2005 Infiniti G35

    Total Configured MSRP† $38,740.00
    Model: G35
    Exterior: Ivory Pearl
    Interior: Stone Leather
    Standard Features
    • 280-hp 3.5-liter (3,498cc) DOHC V6 engine
    • Electronically controlled 5-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
    • Leather Interior
    Packages and Options
    Premium Package (without full size spare) $3350

    Aero Package $550

    DVD Infiniti Navigation System $2000

    Sport Tuned Suspension Package $750
    Accessories
    SIRIUS™ Satellite Radio $400

    Trunk Mat with Standard Space Saver Tire $80
    Base MSRP $31,000.00
    Total Packages, Options, & Accessories $7,130.00
    Destination & Handling $610.00
    Total Configured MSRP† $38,740.00

    That is a total of $7,525.00 in difference of cost ! These are packaged with comparable options.

    As far as I am concerned my INFINITI G35 is worth more then $17,000 ! What makes your BMW worth more ? Is it because it is German engineered ? there is nothing special there esp. since INFINITI ranked # 1 in relibality i believe last year ? could be wrong ....

    Blueguydotcom sorry about the CAPS but I dont know just didn't bother to switch well anyway even without all the crap there is still a difference in the price between the BMW and the INFINITI .. A nice size one .

    And the Bang for the Buck yes I understand not everyone is looking for that and either was I and I dont need too but as far as I am concerned I will continue to buy into the INFINITI name plate because they are great looking cars, great acting cars, relibale cars and worth the money and if it was all about a name plate my three car garage would have Mercedes - Benz written all over it ! But then agian it is just an opinion .

    One last thing you have to remember that The new 325I and 330I was aimed at the INFINITI G35 and that the G35 was aimed at the older 2005 and before model. Therefore I think there will be a crown toss between INFINITI and BMW for many years to come not to say ACURA and AUDI and MB wont come out with future great products !

    Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive and have that universal appeal of highway driving and city driving its great !
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Stuff I want:

    330i 6 MT- with leather, sport package, metallic paint, power seats, xenon, series 7stereo, moonroof = 40k.
    G35 6 MT - with sport package, premium package (bose stereo, power seats, moon) = 35k

    Shrug. don't have any use for bmw's premium package. to each his own. I see a 5k difference. For me, I'd rather pay 5k extra and be happy. I'm not happy with a G35...sit's too high, snap oversteer isn't my bag, engine's rough, shifter's not that great.

    as I am concerned I will continue to buy into the INFINITI name plate because they are great looking cars, great acting cars, relibale cars and worth the money

    Quite reliable. They're a tremendous value for price to performance.

    Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive and have that universal appeal of highway driving and city driving its great !

    BTW, I probably won't be buying another 330i. BMW's inability to fix an engine problem I've had for 3 months means I'm gonna take a break from BMW. M3's probably the only way i'll end up back at BMW.

    Have a nice evening.
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  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    1. You failed to note that the Steptronic in the 330i is a six-speed, whereas the G35 is a five-speed.

    2. The premium package IS full of "interesting gizmos".

    3. Comparably equipping cars is subject to personal tastes so its no more a persuasive argument that simply insulting the other guy's intelligence...
    Compare the price difference between the base G35 and MY choice of BMW:
    325i (Not drag racing for pinks, so excess engine output is just increasing our dependence on imported oil and shrinking my wallet.)
    Jet Black paint (no add'l cost, and looks better than most metallic paints.)
    Manual tranny (DSGs are nice, but I still want greater clutch control. No one should drive an automatic without a doctor's excuse.)
    Sports Package (Just really like everything in it.)
    Xenon headlights (Tired of being blinded by on-coming traffic? Return the favor!)
    MSRP: $32,700 + destination.

    The reason I didn't get the G35 was the lack of options. There was simply no way to get the price down for those of us who don't want bloated cars. $250.00 off for going with the manual? That's ridiculous. The dealers don't improve things: every G35 on every lot within 100 miles had the premium package. Yeah, with the G you get more car. (Whether you want it or not!)

    "The new 325I and 330I was aimed at the INFINITI G35"

    The new 3 was "aimed at" drivers. Despite what the ads may imply, BMW isn't interesting in copying others -- only improving on what came before. It's Infiniti and Lexus who feel compelled to "aim" at a competitor's product.

    "Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive"

    Believe that all you want, but you won't convince me or many other stick lovers. They just aren't there yet.
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  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,725
    Did anyone ever say that BMWs are cheap?

    It is more expensive to get the BMW or Mercedes model with the same content.. either you think the car is worth the extra money, or you don't...

    Infiniti and Lexus have made their mark by making Mercedes and BMW substitutes for less money.. I don't think it is news that their cars have lower prices..

    Is it?

    MODERATOR

    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    325i (Not drag racing for pinks, so excess engine output is just increasing our dependence on imported oil and shrinking my wallet.)

    330i gets better gas mileage than the 325i. :P
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  • taxesquiretaxesquire Posts: 681
    A car that sporty with no MT

    But it's got those cute little paddles!!! LOL - I think it's a huge joke all the advertising given to the autoshift mechanisms. Whether it's paddles, steering wheel push buttons or on the gear selector, they're all nice for a change of pace, and maybe to slow down without using your brake, but that's about it.
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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    It may get better mileage is certain conditions. My commute is partly 10 miles of fast acceleration and stomp on the brakes. This is not your grandma's EPA gas mileage test. This type of commute is the worst of the worst in terms of gas mileage. The 330 does not have better mileage in conditions such as I described.
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Dunno. I do know if I'm a good boy I can get mid to high 20s in my commute. On long freeway drives I get killer mileage (30+). Really it's only because I like to live above 4k rpm that my daily commute only nets me ~22 mpg.
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  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    I kept my 318ti at a low boil (4500+ RPM) the whole time (well, up to cruising speed anyways -- then I start using those 'throw away' gears: 4th & 5th) and still got ~30 MPG.

    I think that with the way I drive, I'm getting better mileage in my E46 325i than I would be if I'd gotten the 330i (at least I hope so, otherwise I'd have to kick myself, and I'm just too old to contort my joints that way).
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  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "A car that sporty with no MT??? That's strange, and I think a mistake

    A manual will be available on the IS250, just not the IS350.

    Which means that if you told me I had to choose between a 6-speed IS250 and a paddle shifted DSG IS350, I'd take the IS250 without hesitating. Even if they were the same price.
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  • ivorypearlgivorypearlg Posts: 53
    INFINITI and BMW have made great cars along with LEXUS and other cars in this class but as far as I am concerned I like the INFINITI line up they are great cars with just what I want. If I wanted the 330i or even the 545i I would have just went and bought one.... They didn't appeal to me so I didn't buy. Although the BMW won its crown back I would still choose the INFINITI ... Its just what I like, even thou I am now looking at the Lexus GS430 ... Good car ? I have never bought a Lexus. I like the new IS350 also do you think I should wait or go with the GS ?

    I also believe that BMW does look at other cars when designing ... If they didn't what info and other stuff would they have to go by. Not saying they dont make there cars better but I am sure they do look at other cars while in the process making . Ooo and you forgot about AUDI. . .

    Again with the Manumatic trans types vs. manuals ? It is all up to who wants what, what your driving conditions are and who is driving the car. First of all I have city and highway driving and the Manumatic trans is great ! If I am traveling on the highway i can throw it into manual mode and have some fun ... If I am driving with my parents in the city and there is stop and go traffic the auto mode is great so the Manumatic trans is best for me ! Then my wife doesn't know how to drive manual trans so I cant buy one cause we usually switch off cars .
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  • nyrefugeenyrefugee Posts: 35
    "The coupes have too much chassis flex. "

    I am very surprised to hear this. In my experience the coupes have almost no chasis flex. This is because the FM platform is really solid, and the coupe bodystyle further reverses flex. You can read reviews of the g35 and the 350z (which has the fm platform as well) and most of them, even one review that slammed the 350z say that the FM platform was great and allowed no chasis flex or squirm. As I said that has been my experience as well, especially now that I am driving the car in the pothole filled streets of LA I find that the chasis does not twist and squirm even when i hit the big potholes.

    It is possible that the car you drove had something disconnected or lose that made noise, which sounded like chasis flex.

    The problem is that the FM platform is made out of steel, so it makes the car comparatively heavy. It is not that heavy compared to other cars of its class, but it is a pig compared to small sports cars, i.e. s2000s and miatas. The G35 would so much better if its body was made of aluminum but I am sure that would make it much more expensive too.

    "And in the G35c outward vision is compromised too much."

    That is only true in the back. And you can get good vision in the back if you are very careful about setting up your side mirrors. But I admit, this car definately needs bigger mirrors.

    "perfect comfort, poise, power, handling, reliability."

    For me the G has everything sans the comfort. The comfort is not perfect due to the hard suspension (I have a coupe with all suspension packages). But it is not easy for a car with good handling to have perfect comfort. Actually, it i pretty much impossible. But th G coupe is very comfortable for a car that handles the way it does.
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  • nyrefugeenyrefugee Posts: 35
    "If the IS350 loaded costs 30k,"

    It wont. The 350 will be expensive. Probably in the 40s decently equipped. There will be a cheaper version (IS300 or 250 was it) which has a choice of manual but it will have a weaker 215 hp engine.

    Dont be confused by the 300 hp engine ... the IS 350 will not be a sports or "sporty" car because no lexuses are. The LExus strategy is luxury and isolation from the environment. That is exactly the opposite as a sports car which must strive to make you one with the road.

    So I am not at all surprised they do not offer a manual. They are just not selling to the sports car buyer. They are selling to the person that feels good about having a 300 hp car, but does not drive it hard or care about how it handles, rather he/she cares mostly about the luxury. I.e. it will be aimed at the same demographic as the TL.
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  • ivorypearlgivorypearlg Posts: 53
    Hey I also agree about the price... If you head to www.Lexus.com and look at the new IS video it says that the IS250 ( the cheaper model ) will start around the same price of the current IS300. Which is about $30,000 if correct maybe more . Then you figure the bigger engine extra equip and the base price of the IS350 will be around $36,000. Loaded an est. of $44,000 which isn't bad for what you get. 6- spd Auto with paddle shift, Mark Lenvinson Sterio and navigation, back- up camera and much much more ! Lets just hope the rest of the car is as great as the technology. Which it prob will be since it is a LEXUS ... What I disagree on is the buyer they are looking for ... I believe that this vehicle will be in the demographic of the 325I / 330I and the G35. They also mentioned that it is sharing some components with the bigger GS but will be sportier. Lets keep our hopes up ! ! !
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Which means that if you told me I had to choose between a 6-speed IS250 and a paddle shifted DSG IS350, I'd take the IS250 without hesitating. Even if they were the same price.

    The IS250 is a dog though...even with a manual it can't get out of the way of anything.
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    It wont. The 350 will be expensive. Probably in the 40s decently equipped. There will be a cheaper version (IS300 or 250 was it) which has a choice of manual but it will have a weaker 215 hp engine.

    I know the IS350 won't come in that low. I was making a point...the IS350 would have to be stupid cheap loaded for me to get one with an automatic.
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  • billyperksbillyperks Posts: 449
    I think 44K is a little too high- you can get the GS 300 for that.
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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yeah but the kinda person that would want a GS300 wouldn't seriously look at entry lux. they want a land yacht, not a performance sedan.
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  • taxesquiretaxesquire Posts: 681
    The IS250 is a dog though...even with a manual it can't get out of the way of anything

    Have you driven it? From what I understand, the IS is closer in size to the 3 & A4, as opposed to the TL & G35, so it doesn't need as much HP to move.
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  • potemkinpotemkin Posts: 196
    "The IS250 is a dog though...even with a manual it can't get out of the way of anything."

    Feel free to engage in a little hyperbole to make you point. I guess Einstein was right: Everything is relative. But 200+ HP in a ~3400 lb. vehicle doesn't sound too shabby to my ears. Why, the '05 V6 Mustang (Not the V8!) is said to be faster than an '84 Corvette. I had a 5.0L V8 Mustang ('82) that put out a whopping 158 HP. Oh boy, we live in interesting times.

    Oh, and technically, the IS250 isn't out yet, so you should refer to it's performance in the future tense: "The IS250 will be a dog..."
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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Why, the '05 V6 Mustang (Not the V8!) is said to be faster than an '84 Corvette."

    Geez, I think our 3.8 liter V6 Dodge Grand Caravans are both faster than a 1984 Corvette (in a straight line that is), so a 2005 V6 Mustang beating that same Vette should be no trick.

    Relative to the IS, I'm thinking it is a tad overweight for the size of the vehicle. True, I haven't seen it yet however it is weighing in at over 150 pounds more than an E90 325i, and it sounds like it has a smaller interior (in terms of legroom) than anything else in the class, consider the following:

    Vehicle ---------- Total Leg Room ------------ Vehicle Weight
    Audi A4 2.0T --------- 75.60" ------------------------ 3,362 lbs.
    BMW 325i ------------- 76.10" ------------------------ 3,285 lbs.
    Infiniti G35 ------------ 77.20" ------------------------ 3,512 lbs.
    Lexus IS250 ---------- 74.50" ------------------------ 3,450 lbs (approx. the IS350 is 3,527)

    Hmmm, smallest interior package, second heaviest overall package.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
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