Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Comments
My order mirrors the original:
Lexus
Accura
Big Gap
Infinity
Audi BMW - Tied
Cadillac
Mercedes
The only caveat is that I perceive A4s and 3 series as pretty reliable, while their other models are as poor as Cadillac and almost as bad as Mercedes.
From what I remember of his post, all that was done in this informal comparison was stomp on the gas.
2008 will be another story perhaps.
Regards,
OW
FYP.
Do you really think that the typical automatic transmission falls apart at 50k-70k miles?
There seems to be an awful lot of "OMG, the sky is gonna fall!!!!!" regarding automatic transmissions on this board. Does anybody have any real evidence to back that up?
Regards,
OW
I, too, tested the G35, 335i, TL-S and own an IS350.
While this may be convincing for you, it's strictly annecdotal. There may (depending on who you know) also a be pretty big flaw as well in your reasoning - most people probably know a lot more people with automatics than manuals, which will bias even the annecdotal evidence.
There's not a sane person out there who would claim a manual repair will be more expensive than an automatic. Have you ever met a manual owner or read of one with a $2000 manual transmission repair? Have you ever seen any stats showing the average repair cost of a manual supersedes an automatic? No, because no such stat exists.
Auto Warranty Group shows the average (auto and manual) transmission repair to cost $1900:
http://www.auto-warranty-group.com/average_repair.html
Hmm.
Endurance Warranties shows the average tranny repair will run about $2500. They project in five years that price will climb to over $4000. given that e39/e46 BMW tranny repairs run near and above 4k, that's not a shock.
http://www.endurancewarrantyservices.com/repaircosts.php
As we move to 5, 6 and 7 speed automatics with more gearing, more complexity and infinitely more software, the cost to fix these transmissions will climb to stratospheric levels.
I'm a big-time Nissan fan, having driven a new 240-Z 225K miles & a used 510 an additional 106K miles. However, I have a few issues with the G:
1) No way to put my bike in the back (sedan doesn't have fold-down rear seats & the coupe has only a somewhat small triangular hole).
2) Fuel mileage/overall gearing is horrible.
3) They're so popular that they're everywhere.
In any event, I'm still interested in hearing opinions like yours.
Auto Warranty Group shows the average (auto and manual) transmission repair to cost $1900:
http://www.auto-warranty-group.com/average_repair.html
Hmm.
Endurance Warranties shows the average tranny repair will run about $2500. They project in five years that price will climb to over $4000. given that e39/e46 BMW tranny repairs run near and above 4k, that's not a shock.
http://www.endurancewarrantyservices.com/repaircosts.php
Fill me in here - how do those two unbiased sites make their money? Oh, yeah - they sell extended warranties! And the more people think that they need an extended warranty, the more money they make . . .
In any case, you're missing the point. It seems that a few people on this board are under the impression that typical automatic transmissions are destined to give up the ghost when the car has relatively few miles. Maybe that's true, in which case it should be trivially easy for you, or anyone else, to supply some objective evidence supporting that position.
If you never have to repair your transmission, it really doesn't matter how much it costs, now does it?
No, it certainly doesn't.
But, if you have to repair/replace/completely rebuild three of them (one required two visits, go figure) in 18 months, it will definitely give you a point of departure for future vehicle/transmission preferances & purchases.
If every (or even most of the) automatic transmission I've ever had the misfortune to deal with had been half as trouble-free as all the manuals I've enjoyed, I wouldn't be nearly as hard-over as I am today. I will NEVER own another car (that I drive myself every day -- she who must be obeyed has other ideas) with an automatic transmission.
Bring me my equivalent on the other side -- someone who suffered four major repairs on three manual transmissions in the extended family over 18 months. Oh, and those repairs need to have cost ~2-3X what the equivalent would have on the automatic.
I'm anxiously awaiting your response.
Regards:
OldCEM
But this is really a bizarre thread. Out of about 200 people that I have ever known well who drive cars, about 2 of them have had to repair transmissions in the last 10 years. Previous to that, when transmissions were not well designed, it was more like 198 out of 200. Are you guys hanging exclusively with people who own 15 year old cars or people who put 175K on their cars?
My uncle owned an Automatic Transmission shop in Brooklyn for 40 years. The average cost for AT repair was ALWAYS more expensive than MT because of the complex gears and valves than needed repair (He rebuilt almost every one).
I assume a G35 or 335 MT would cost a bundle to replace but the AT would be more, that's all. The thing is, if you buy, purchase the extended coverage at the end of the initial period or lease and dispose.
Regards,
OW
I was just curious to see one as I occassionally see newer Bimmer's on the road. Would I consider a 335xi ? Probably not as I think it would be a bit to small for my family. If I was ever going to buy a BMW, it would most likely be the new M3 sedan. That is one car that BMW, has built that really impressed me. However it will probably cross the $60K line which would put it way out of reach. It will have plenty of buyers for it though.
If I buy a ELLPS automobile it will more than likely be a 09' CTS-V. That is one automobile that is big enough for my family and will blow the doors off of just about everything on the road.
Rocky
Buick
Acura
Lexus
BMW
Infiniti
Mercedes
Lincoln
-Rocky
Rocky
GMC
Caddy
Chevy
Oldsmobile
Buick
Saab
Opel
Big Gap Here
Every other car manufacturer on the planet.
And if you keep it past 150k would you actually examine your purchase of a $35k car based on an $800 repair difference in 12 years?
Rocky
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
In any event, how about rather than rating perceptions (or in the case of Rocky, dilusions
1. Nissan (1995 Maxima SE)
2. Honda (2002 S2000) / Porsche (2005 911S) (tie)
4. Toyota (1983 Supra)
5. Acura (2004 TL 6-speed)
6. Acura (2005 MDX)
big gap
7. Acura (1987 Integra)
8. Datsun (1978 B210 GX)
bigger gap
9. Isuzu (1996 Trooper)
I have to give the Nissan top honors, inasmuch as it has 13 years and 154k miles under it's belt. The S2000 was perfect, but sold at 2.5 years/19k miles. The 911 has been virtually perfect for 18 months and 13.5k miles, but do I have the guts to keep it past warranty?
It was a reality test!
1. 2003 Lincoln LS
2. 1988 Lincoln MVII LSC
3. BMW 330 XI
HUGE GAP
4. 1994 Chevy Suburban
5. 1997 Pontiac GP GTP
6. 1977 Pontiac GP
7. 1968 Dodge Dart GT
8. 1966 Pontiac LeMans
I rated the 330 lower than Lincoln because of the wiring harness repair at 5K miles. Other than that, and the RFT debauchery, the car has been great at 18K miles and the difference in driving dynamics of the German vs. the US brands is quite unbelievable until you feel it in the butt!
We will NOT visit the financial collapse of depreciation expense at the end of their life cycles with my US fare!
Regards,
OW
I assume you meant accumulated depreciation since the early years of an American cars' life carry most of the expense.
But if they cost less initially then......
Regards:
OldCEM
REgards:
OldCEM
It wasn't really that low on my list. In fact if I was wealthy enough I'd have my order in on a LX 570 :shades:
I think Lexus, automobiles are nice but they don't give you the value of the other's a head of it. As in value that is a personal issue as I'm going off of personal and experiences of family members that have owned these products. If I was rich as some of you and could afford a S-Class Benz, then maybe a LS460 might seem like the value buy. I'm not saying the LS, is a rip off because it's out of my reach but I think their are others like the STS that give you most of the LS/ BMW 5 series for $20K less. I also yes am a tad biased and like GM products better. Most all of us have a biased opinion based on experience, other factors.
-Rocky
I am not a card carrying UAW member habitat. I'm a Security Police Officer for the Dept. of Energy. I thought you knew that as you've visited my car space page once or twice in the past.
In any event, how about rather than rating perceptions (or in the case of Rocky, dilusions
I guess it's been a while since you have picked on me. :P
Well I think your very dilusional thinking your 95' Maxima, was/is a better car than your 04' TL 6-speed. Somebody bumped their head today. :P
-Rocky
Regards,
OW
I understand your value proposition but we were talking strictly perceived quality.
Regards,
OW
2. Honda (2002 S2000) / Porsche (2005 911S) (tie)
4. Toyota (1983 Supra)
5. Acura (2004 TL 6-speed)
Perhaps Habitat needs to keep 04 TL to same amount of miles as his Max to see how it stacks up.
Don't think that current Maxima is considered entry level lux perf, but I will add my 2 cents on it along with current gens Acuras.
Have a 97 Maxima SE with 181K miles on it and it has been mostly bullit proof. Recently had 2 oxygen sensors replaced on it. Other than normal maintainence (tires, batt, etc) it has been an outstanding car. Probably the best ever in my life. Also have a 2004 TL (80+K Miles) and it has had absolutely zero problems. Don't know if we will keep till 180K miles to see how it stacks up to Maxima.
Have some other vehicles including an 07 TL. Guess that is a comment on selecting from current crop of cars in this class. Did not consider 07 G35 or any other RWD because FWD for winter driving very important to us.
Years ago, we did consider and test drive 01 Max SE and later the redesigned 04 Max SE. We test drove those without sales persons on back roads and both wife and I concluded that our 97 Max handled better than the 01 or 04. Granted the 04 had a lot of HP, but it was too much HP for the chasis. One word to describe the 04 Max - ponderous. In both cases we opted for Acura TL - 01 and 04. The 01 TL had zero problems at trade-in with 70K miles.
Think that 95-99 gen of Maximas had higher quality, fit and finish, than later and current gens. Believe they were built in Japan and had higher levels of materials including the paint. When at Nissan dealer for oil changes over the years, would notice a lesser quality of paint finish and cheaper looking interiors on Maxs compared to the old 97.
Rocky, I would put my 1995 Maxima SE 5-speed as a relatively better car, for it's era and the price, than my 2004 TL 6-speed. No doubt the TL has a lot more gizmos, do-dads, updated interior etc. But when it comes to long term reliability and structural build quality, I think the 4th Generation Maxima, especially the 1995-1997 model years, were exceptional. Far superior to their competiton of that era - US built Camrys and Accords - and better than the TL of that day. I would even say, FWD notwithstanding - that they were competitive with the 189 hp 328i in performance. Unfortunately, Nissan screwed up the current Maxima so horribly that it bears no resemblence to the "4 door sports car" of 1995.
If Nissan would build the exact same 95-99 Maxima, I would buy it.
ELLPS - quality:
Lexus
Acura
Infiniti
***Giant gap***
BMW
MB
Audi
***basement***
Anything american
You're going to have to show me how to do this sometime.
Maybe Carlos Ghosn cut back on engineering and quality of parts to cut costs. Nissan was a good engineering company in past, which was great for us enthusiasts, but perhaps they did not price cars to recover costs properly. They were at price levels to compete in their segments, but costs got out of hand?
Interior and dashboard of our 97 SE looks, feels very good after 10 years. Original exhaust sys also, with 181K miles. Mentioned 97 Max paint before and think that it's shine/depth just as good, maybe better than our 04, 07 TLs. Changed air filters a couple of times (other times dealer does along with oil, trans oil, plugs, etc) and remember that I was impressed about the sound engineering of the parts assoc with attaching the filter. Have always done my own brake jobs (pads, rotors/calipers as reqd) and was pleased in the engineering done there also.
And, the famous V6 engine, still runs strong, miniscule oil consumption, and sounds great on acceleration, kind of a low growl. Nissan somehow got rid of this growl starting about year 2001. Sometimes think the sounds coming from 97 Max engine are more fun/enjoyable than that from the 04/07 TLs.
Have not test driven a G35. If they use VQ V6 in that car, does engine have a nice growl on acceleration, or has it been muffled as on the recent Maxs.
Exactly what I forgot to mention. When accelerating, I was so satisfied with this "V8" sound. It is not the quietest car but that sound level is definately not a noise to me.
You may have biased opinions toward GM products but you rarely flat out debunk any vehicles and you certainly never say anything bad of the posters on here. In any event you are right that everyone on here has some sort of bias and for some of us that bias is strong. Stick with your opinions and being yourself - to me you add value to these forums.
Ed
Infiniti
Audi
BMW
Cadillac
Porsche
Bottomless pit/Infinity - the number/#:Mercedes Benz
Top 10 ELLPS Brands
#1 -Cadillac
#2 -Saab -> Going by the next 9-3 GMI pics
#3 -Acura
#4 -Lexus
#5 -BMW
#6 -Mercedes
#7 -Infiniti
#8 -Audi
#9 -Lincoln
#10 Volvo ?
-Rocky
I appreciate the kind words. Sometimes being myself to much gets me in trouble.-grin. I however do not make it habit to go out of my way on to upset other people.
The funny thing is hauss, I was digging desperately for a 10th luxury car maker that makes ELLPS and only the old and tired Volvo S60. :surprise: I'm very :mad: they are doing away with the S60R.
-Rocky
An '08 V70R was near the top of our shopping list for the wife's replacement after her lease is up.
now i don't know where to turn.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S