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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Allowing for a 15% driveline loss

    Using the "15% rule", it'll be interesting to find out other ELLPS' dyno results as well. Maybe it's not only the BMW whom underrated its engine.

    Edit: Found it, from

    All stock configuration (with # besides the horsepower):

    2006 Acura TL: 223.04 RWHP (= 262 HP before 15% loss, Official: 258 HP)
    2007 BMW 335i: 275.89 RWHP (= 325 HP before 15% loss, Official: 300 HP)
    2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe: 242.20 RWHP (= 285 HP before 15% loss, Official: 298 HP)
    2006 Lexus IS350: 268.4 RWHP (= 316 HP before 15% loss, Official: 306 HP)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Just an fyi - One of the mags (or maybe edmunds, I really don't recall) posted a 299.xx on a dyno run. You can search for it. That is probably the exception rather than the norm, but it does show the engine is a very capable one.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    it seems turbo cars typically vary quite a bit from the factory. Turbos are also affected more severely by temperatures.

    I don't doubt there is someone out there somewhere who finds their 335i to be 300hp, as the factory specifies. And maybe that's why BMW rated it that way. Just a theory.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    I am just under an even 6'0 and I cannot sit in the IS without my head hitting the roof liner, unless I RECLINE the seat a bit - which I do not want to do. Others I have spoken to have the same problem. Some of the "fit" issues have to do with torso length vs. leg length. I drove the IS and liked much about it, but it is just too small for me(noticeably smaller inside than the TL, G or 3 series). The salesman actually called it a "toy". I don't agree with that, but do think many won't buy it because they don't "fit".
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The only complaint I have about the seating is that since I have really long torso, the backseat behinds the driver's seat is pretty much useless. However, I had that problem with my previous Accord too and I believe will have it in a G or 3er as well, just in different degrees. The only car in this class that will accomodate my seating position and at the same time to have a useful backseat could only be the TL (CTS might make the list too).
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    That is the main reason why I bought the TL back then. The CTS was my only other option when it came to room.

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Just got the February issue and here are quotes from the editors:

    Sam Mitani, international editor: Now that I have a family, things like rear-seat space and ride quality are taken into greater consideration. But the hot-rod performance of the Lexus IS350 erased all my silly thoughts of comfort and civility. The Infiniti G35 Sport looks the best, and the Acura TL Type-S was the most comfortable and spacious, but it was the IS350's raw power delivery and sharp handling :surprise: that won me over. Now I need to come up with a good explanation to my wife and daughter, who may not share my enthusiasm for the car.

    Jim Hall, senior editor: This Japanese trio is very good, but they still have little ways to go to unseat the sports-sedan kings, the BMW 3 series and Cadillac CTS. The Acura held up well against its new rivals. And the Infiniti has potential, but its steering is too heavy and the engine lacks grunt. Of the three, the Lexus is my choice, offering outstanding power, a surprising sporty chassis and decent steering feel :surprise: . Let's hope that Lexus goes to bat for enthusiasts and adds a manual transmission for future models.

    Jonathan Elfalan, assistant road test editor: The G35 Sport is a blast to drive and best mimics the characteristics of a sports couple, but lacks refinement in its suspension and gearbox. However, when it comes down to it, the IS350 is the most cohesive and complete package with a very compliant chassis and well-sorted transmission-not to mention that it's a missile cloaked by an unassuming exterior. now if only I could order it with a manual gearbox.

    Source: R&T Feb, 2007 issue
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    For the discussion, it doesn't matter if it is a chip for the 335 or some other BMW model. So the idea of mootness is moot.

    You say you think you read (where?) that "BMW will install and honor the warranty on after market parts in it's cars."?

    "Honor the warranty"? Whose warranty? And who will pay for the repairs? BMW factory warranty? Aftermarket part maker's warranty? The car dealership's service department warranty?

    "Honor the warranty"? Well that is about as clear as mud.

    What do you think that means? Do you think the BMW factory warranty is going to pay for repair and/or replacement of an aftermarket part exactly the same as if it was a genuine factory installed part? That is, do you think BMW will pay for the failed aftermarket part and for any consequential damage to genuine BMW parts of the car if caused by the failure of that aftermarket part?

    Take a gander at that Bimmerfest message board. Some owners there have actually had the pleasure of dealing with parts failures and warranty claims.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996

    "...may affect..."?

    So what if it is straight from Dinan? The chip may or may not affect the car's warranty. Big deal! That is hardly definitive, right?
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    So what if it is straight from Dinan?

    Exactly!! That's my point, even Dinan themselves cannot guarantee that if BMW will honor the warranty with the modification.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    Well of course Dinan can not obligate BMW to warranty Dinan's chips.
    But the claim made earlier was that BMW would provide warranty coverage on Dinan's chips.
    That was the issue.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    279 HP compared to 275? That's a little less than one and a half percent difference.
    Uh-oh! That Big 'n' Tasty is going to cost you $1.01 instead of $.99 now.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period.

    Time for my soapbox...

    I would point out that even the factory warranty on an unmodified car can be "muddy" in certain cases. For example, if your clutch burns out after only 15,000 miles, is it a defective tranny or did you destroy it with abuse? This exact situation has happened to people on these very forums (including myself 2 years ago with my old Acura), and the decision whether the dealership covered the repairs or not seems to be about 50/50.

    The parts and service folks at my local BMW dealer all know me by first name - and I've never spent more than $50 there at a time. I'm in there probably a couple times each month to buy a $6 oil filter, $3 worth of 7mm screws, or something like that. That's it. They always smile and say hello when I come in, talk about E30's for a few minutes, and then, half the time, they give me my parts for free. If it's not in stock, they have even overnight drop shipped parts to my home - no charge.

    When I brought my Acura in with a moaning clutch 2 years ago, no questions were asked. The Acura dealer took care of me without hesitation. Other people have not been so lucky. Why? IMO, your automobile is one of your biggest investments, and like your accountant, lawyer, or bank branch manager, you should have a personal relationship with the people who help you take care of it. If you're an enthusiast (and what Dinan customer isn't to some extent), you should want to be an "insider" with the dealership people who are "in the know."

    You'll never have a problem with warranty support, Dinan modified or bone stock, if you do this.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Interesting to point out:

    IS350 won the comparo in both price independent and price dependent standings. Consider that it is $5K more expensive than the TL-S and $6K more than the G35S, all similar equipped.

    This is one area which I don't really agree with the reviewers. I'd consider G35S the best buy among this group with price in consideration.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Interesting - a reply to your own post. Not feeling too loved?

    OK - I'll pat you on the back.

    You have a super car.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Nah, just finish reading the article and didn't notice it when I was typing the first post. Since it took a while so I can't go back and edit the original. I just think I should pointed it out for those whom don't have access to R&T.

    Oh, BTW, none of the cars in this segment are super cars. Above average they all are, super car? Nah...

    Like I said, the G35S is definitely the best buy in this bunch. If I am in the market right now for an ELLPS and must have sport suspension plus navigation then there is no brainer I would choose the G over IS.

    That being said, the 3er is still the king among this segment (price independent of course). Can't wait to see a complete comparo later this year which includes the [non-permissible content removed] 3 plus the 335i and all new CTS.

    Well, at least someone has to make an effort from preventing this place turning into the "hail to the 3er" board right? :P
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    So if you can't beat em join em :confuse:

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse :blush:
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    You say, "If an Authorized Dinan BMW dealership sells and installs your Dinan parts, then you're covered. Period."

    But did you ever have a serious engine damage warranty claim with your Dinan chipped BMW?

    I did not. If you did not either, it might be better to talk to or read of those who have.

    And standing on a soapbox does not necessarily lend credence to your speech, it just makes you seem louder.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    So if you can't beat em join em

    Uh...when did I ever join them? If you have been following my posts in this board you can see that I have never ignore the fact that 3-series is the benchmark of this segment. I just think IS350 suits my need better. Test drove the 330i at the time of my purchase and liked IS350's power better. Went to test the 335i over the holiday and loved the new twin turbo I6 and sharper handling. However still can't get over its hefty price tag and IMO ugly interior. Also, with the ECT power mode on, the V6 in the IS350 is very comparable to the 3.0 twin turbo.

    Sounds like you have a lil bit of buyer's remorse

    Be honest, I really thought I would if I go test drive the 335i, that's why it took me a while to hit my local BMW dealership. However, after the test drive (see above) I can say that I would still make the same decision this time around with IS350 vs 335i.

    The only buyer's remorse (just a little :P ) I have is that I didn't opt for Navi on my car. Oh well, nothing a decent portable GPS navigation unit couldn't fix ;) .
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    If your car is not within the car manufacturer's factory warranty period, Dinan will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective Dinan component... Dinan will not accept responsibility for consequential effects or damage to any other component or system.

    If your car is in the new car warranty period, then Dinan has to decide that its part was defective and caused the damage. If Dinan denies that and BMW believes it, you may end up in court trying to collect from one or the other, possibly losing at both claims.

    Seems to me that a warranty is no guarantee of paid repairs.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    I'd take the Lexus all day over the 335. Maybe if I'm in a race everyday I'd reconsider - but I'm not! The Lexus has excellent, excellent performance, outstanding craftmanship, beautiful interior...what's not to like?

    As for the navigation, newer portables will eclipse what's in the car now for a whole lot less money.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "If your car is in the new car warranty period, then Dinan has to decide that its part was defective..."

    Actually, Dinan's warranty states, "The Authorized Dinan Dealer will, without charge for parts or labor, repair or replace the defective Dinan component(s), as well as any original vehicle manufacturer’s component(s) that may have been directly affected by a Dinan component, using new or authorized remanufactured parts. The decision to repair or replace said parts is at the sole discretion of Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer. "

    They don't "get to decide" whether they're at fault or not - only whether to use new or repaired/remanufactured parts when your car is repaired.

    "If your car is not within the car manufacturer's factory warranty period, Dinan will repair or replace, at its sole discretion, any defective Dinan component."

    So if I install a Dinan supercharger on my 20 year-old, 193,000 mile BMW and then the engine blows, they won't buy me a new engine?!?! Hmmm, I wonder if my aftermarket camshafts, crank, pistons, valves, injectors, chip, MAF, throttle bodies, headers, shifter, flywheel, driveshaft, differential, axles, wheels, or exhaust are covered? Maybe someone should tell Paul Newman that the Ford engines in his Lola's are vulnerable?

    Joe, thank you for revealing the truth about these hideous aftermarket warranty loopholes. We need more people like you to help protect us from ourselves.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "However, after the test drive (see above) I can say that I would still make the same decision this time around with IS350 vs 335i."

    See post #7429 ;)
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Well, like I said, that'll be 4 years from now. By that time I'll have a new 3-series, new TL and new IS for me to choose from. It'll be a brand new ball game.

    I am by no means loyal to Lexus, it's just that this time around Lexus has the product to suit me the best. If there is one brand I am being loyal to that's Honda/Acura but as you can see I passed on the TL for IS350.

    The biggest throwback on the 3er for me is the interior. If that didn't get improvement for the next gen then there is no way I'll be paying for one. I would probably still consider it and cross-shop it like I did before but if I don't really like the interior, don't really see myself getting one. However, if BMW brings back e46's interior then it's a different story all together. Yes, I know I am an interior nut, it is as important to me as the sport suspension and manual tranny to blueguy :P .
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Yeah, just got one for myself over the holidays and tried it on my drive from Melbourne, FL to Atlanta. It is a nice little toy to have.
  • I am looking at buyingthe new G35 and am wondering why it would not be considered the best buy in this segment. I can get a loaded G35 for 40K. That includes nav, rear view camera, upgraded stereo and all the other goodies. What am I missing? I have looked at the BMW and the Lexus and I can not figure out why anyone would choose them over the G35? I am not a race car driver and like performance and luxury while still having some room to carry passengers and luggage. Can someone please tell me what I am missing and why a similarily equiped BMW 335 for $50K is a better buy?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    the short answer is ... it performs better.

    Some folks would choose performance over options. Individual preferences is what makes the world go 'round.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • It performs better in what manner? From my understanding the G35 outperformed and/or held its own against the 335? I would like to own the 335 I just can not justify it. It seems like you are paying for the name.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    To answer your question, G35 is definitely the best buy comparing to the (hint: key words) similarly equipped 335i and IS350. However, not everyone choose the same feature as you do so if all I want is Navi and willing to drop 40 big ones then I'd go for IS350 over the G due to its better fit and finish and performance. On the other hand if gadgetry/features is all I care about then yes the G is definitely a better choice.

    I got a question, have you test drive all 3 cars? I did. I was surprised by the lack of power of the new VQ and couldn't believe this engine is rated the same at horsepower output as the 2GR-FSE. As the new G35 Sport's suspension is obviously softer than before so it sort of lost the "cheaper 3-series alternative" title.

    So the bottom line is:

    The G35 doesn't handles better than the Bimmer, doesn't out-power the Bimmer and Lexus and has an inferior interior than the Lexus. I think Infiniti took the middle road this time around. They are trying to do well in every area but not great in one or two particular.

    Best buy for features and overall package? Yes. Class leader in any area? No. It all depends on what the buyer wants. You can't really go wrong with any car in this class.
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