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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I think the new G35 occasionally has the 0-60 time around 5.2, 5.3 seconds. For me, that's close enough to be called "around 5 seconds".

    Also, in February R&T's Japanese sports sedan comparison, IS350 posed a 0-60 time in 4.9 seconds so currently there are 2 ELLPS that has the ability to put out sub-5 second times.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    One random test of an IS below 5 seconds does not suddenly push the car into the sub-5 second category. The 335 is consistently pulling sub 5 second runs. Nobody is saying the IS350 supplants the vaunted e46 M3; read reviews of the 335 and the comparisons to the M3 pop up over and over.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Don't worry blue, nobody is trying to dethrone the well-beloved 3er here. I was just merely stating a fact from R&T's latest sports sedan comparo.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Hey, dethrone away. I've got my e90 on swapalease. It's not like I'm in love with BMWs.
  • savvyboysavvyboy Posts: 10
    Someone's a hater.
  • nkeennkeen SE PennaPosts: 313
    You are worried about reliability for the Audi but not the Saab? From everything I have read the Saab is a reliability nightmare...much worse than the Audi. Jag reliability is in the crapper too.

    Undoubtedly -- I'm biased as I just happen to have experienced VW/Audi unreliablity first hand -- loved the car (GTi) but problem after problem.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,211
    VW and Audi are miles apart on reliability; goes to show what a company that CARES can do to quality. Yes, one owns the other, but Audi runs fairly independently.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • Nobody is saying the IS350 supplants the vaunted e46 M3; read reviews of the 335 and the comparisons to the M3 pop up over and over.

    And, frankly, those reviewers are full of crap. The 335i is, indeed, a big step up from the former 330i. But even my nephew, who owns one, proclaimed after driving an M3, that the handling differences were enormous and the M3 is a much more aggresively tuned car all around. As far as I know, the 335i is not a significant advancement over a 330i ZHP in the handling department. Again, very good, but nowhere near M3 territory.

    If posting sub 5 second 0-60 times were all it took to invoke M3 comparisons, there would be a lot of inferior cars trying to lay claim to being comparable.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    I posted the wrong numbers in the earlier post.
    Mazdaspeed 6 (2006 model) has 90% of the maximum 280 lb/ft of torque available beginning at 1800 rpm and 90% of that 280 lb/ft for another 500 rpm past the 5500 rpm horsepower peak. The torque peak is at 2570 rpm. Peak horsepower is 274.
    The GT model is the most luxurious, not LTD as I incorrectly stated earlier.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    From Car&Driver magazine.

    price MSRP 0-60 1/4 mi top 70-0 skid EPA city

    $28,555.00 5.4 14.0 149 155 0.87 20
    $34,620.00 5.3 14.0 137 177 0.87 20
    $45,720.00 4.9 13.6 144 160 0.87 19
    $36,000.00 5.2 13.9 158 160 0.87 16
    $35,565.00 5.6 14.2 145 169 0.78 17
    $54,720.00 6.9 15.3 150 176 0.82 19
    $40,000.00 5.1 13.7 142 167 0.85 19
    $45,055.00 5.5 14.2 132 175 0.83 20
    $35,870.00 5.9 14.6 152 170 0.91 20
    $32,064.00 7.1 15.4 142 170 ?.?? 20
    $38,795.00 5.7 14.3 147 999 0.91 20

    Mazdaspeed 6
    Subaru Legacy GT spec B
    BMW 335i
    Infinity G 35
    Dodge Charger
    BMW 530
    Lexus IS 350
    Mercedes C 350 sport
    Acura TL
    Lexus IS 250
    Acura TL type S (Road & Track, 70-0 braking not given)
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    Pretty interesting. I wonder how many test trials the performance car mags (C&D, R&T, MT) do for each of these measures. Maybe a half dozen? A dozen? Also, I've noticed from reading the articles that sometimes the posted time or measurement is the best one they got out of the trials. It would be interesting to see them post all of the trial data once in a while to see how much testing is done and how much variation there is between the test trials.
  • joe131joe131 Posts: 996
    I don't remember how many passes they make during the tests, but I do remember reading an explanation of the testing procedures. My recollection is that they are uniform and consistent and done so direct comparisons of cars are meaningful.
    Road and Track and Car & Driver test results are usually very close in numbers for the same car. They do not mollycoddle the cars. If the best times are achieved dumping the clutch at 4000 rpm on a manual or holding the brake while revving the motor on an auto trans car, that's how they launch them, even if it is hard on the car. That's why their times are always better than Consumer Reports.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    What's up with all this Caddy CTS hate ? I read through the last what 500 and something posts and boy the Bimmer crowd was on the attack. ;) I know that feeling as I got mental scars !!! :P

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Let's get this straight...

    Nobody here HATES the CTS, some just DON'T LIKE IT AS MUCH AS the next one. To use your way of thinking I would say that rockylee hates all non-domestic makes whether they are Asian or German. Is that the truth Rocky?

    By the way, I am neither a GM band-wagoner/cheerleader nor the so-called "Bimmer crowd".
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Okay gang, the official acceleration numbers are now out. Earlier this week I posted numbers that I was able to obtain via back channels and was taken to task as to the accuracy of said numbers. To refresh y'alls memories, I posted:

    2008 528i zero to sixty: 6.5 Seconds
    2008 535i zero to sixty: 5.5 Seconds

    The official 2008 5-Series brochure quotes the following numbers:

    2008 528i zero to sixty: 6.5 Seconds
    2008 535i zero to sixty: 5.6 Seconds

    Oh damn, my source was off by a tenth of a second on the 535i. Sue me. :P

    Best Regards,
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,612
    I was wondering where you were. Do not take offense but the CTS is last on my list of choices for a new ride. I will hold off on any comments on the 2008 version...when is it due out?

    Welcome back!

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993

    I called a local dealer today and he hasn't gotten confirmation yet but has heard this fall. This website also backs his claim:

    Click on 2008 CTS bottom of screen and slightly left. :)


    P.S. BTW- nice to be back thanx..I've had computer virus problems, been busy, and have been ill with this sinus/pneumonia bug. :sick:
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    I don't hate any brand really. I do dislike the customer service I get from some brands. I do prefer american over non-domestic. I guess I could of used another word to make my posts sound so harsh but boy some were ripping the CTS apart from roof to rim. :surprise:

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,211
    Saw the "recent" model CTS on the road and was not personally impressed in the least bit.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    boy some were ripping the CTS apart from roof to rim.

    Feel free to do the same to the 3er, IS350, G35 and TL if you have reasons, personal experiences, or facts to back it up. This is exactly what this forum's for, giving people a place to share their like and dislike of all the ELLPS out there, CTS included.
  • Feel free to do the same to the 3er, IS350, G35 and TL

    Seems to me when you rip a car a new one your post usually gets removed.
  • jamesspotjamesspot Posts: 57
    To me, the 3 series is the Goldilock's choice. I'm 6'5" and 200 lbs. I chose perhaps the only E46 ZHP sedan sold without a sunroof just for that reason. I also never use the sun visors.

    But, for me, the E46 is like slipping into my favorite jeans - it fits snug but just right. There are bigger cars, but they don't handle as well and a smaller car wouldn't be as practical.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Sigh...don't remind me of my dearly departed ZHP. :(
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,993
    Feel free to do the same to the 3er, IS350, G35 and TL if you have reasons, personal experiences, or facts to back it up.

    I have in the past but I'd prefer to keep the lid on that can of worms as I get surrounded and then attacked by the Bimmer boys. :P

  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905

    I'm 6'1" 210lbs. I tried my best to overcome the confined feel of the 2006 3's cockpit, but it nagged me relentlessly.

    The G35 was the same. Both cars my left knee rode the arm rest on the door. The cars were just too small.

    I sat in the TL and felt like I wasn't trying to wear a pair of jeans from 5 years ago. The car performed nicely. Sure its FWD offers a different kind of feel to your drive, but weighed against the shoehorned-in feel of the 3 or G35 I couldn't pass on it.

    And I so wanted the BMW.
  • nkeennkeen SE PennaPosts: 313
    I had a TL and moved to the 325i with ZSP. The TL was a comfortable car, while not on a par with a big Volvo, for instance. But it had its ergonomic nuisances -- a key fob that dangled in my knees relentlessly (why, oh why do the press all grumble about the starter button?), handbrake on the wrong side of the transmission tunnel, km readings on speedo impossible to read. The biggest problems that I have with the BMW are the narrowness of the sports seats at the base of my back, side bolsters that can sometimes feel as though they are jabbing into my ribs, and the tendency of the seat cushion to feel like a well after a long drive. On the other hand, the seat does a good job of holding me in place when I toss the car around. Also, I don't get the rotor ache in my right shoulder that the TL and other cars give me. It's not the fashion, but I do wish the US market E90 were available with cloth. I'm 50, 6'00", 185lbs, and by no means perfectly proportioned (long torso, so headroom's a problem in many cars with sunroofs, but not in the Bimmer).
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, no. When you do something similar to another poster is when that happens. ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,612
    Yes, respect he posters but for cars, Open Season at all times!

    Predominately the CTS, IMO.


    P.S. - When it reaches World Class Build/Performance levels, it will gain respect.
  • hausshauss Posts: 169
    I agree with your comments on the 3 series size. I'm the same height as you and 10 lbs less. I found the 3 to be extremely uncomfortable to me. Just too small to really enjoy whatever it had to offer. I felt the G was bigger but some odd things made it a little more uncomfortable. The seat bolsters were too narrow for me to get my shoulders all the way back into the seatback. Also, I hated the seat controls being under my right quad. Now, all of this was in the first gen. But still what were they thinking with putting the controls there??? I haven't driven the 2nd gen G yet but I've sat in it at a showroom and I was glad to see Infiniti finally caught up with the rest of the auto world and moved the controls. But I still found it to be a bit cramped inside for my taste.
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