Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

bmwe90

Don't get me wrong, I did like the G, I just got a big :lemon: and now i have to vent. I shouldn't be mad, Infiniti did practically pay for all of my new 3. But it is good to hear that they are actually treating their customers with the respect (and good loaner cars) that they should.

ivorypearlg

Well then I must be a special customer because I always get current Infiniti model cars. Infiniti of Willow Grove !

ivorypearlg

Yes they are treating me good ! I just ordered a Ivory Pearl FX45 for my wife ! I will be done financing my G35 Coupe in November .. I am going to buy another Infiniti then too maybe a Lexus or Mercedes. I dont know yet !

blueguydotcom

Did he say he needed RWD maybe he lives in snowy climates the Saab will plow thru the snow while the RWD IS350 and the 3'S RWD and the RWD Infin will be stuck in the garage. Look at the Acura TL too.. AWD G is great also.

I'll wait for the snow-living RWD owners to refute your 1980s thinking about RWD cars and snowy climates.

ivorypearlg

Sorry but my brothers 330I is horrible in the snow ! He lives in Maine. When it snows he cant drive his 330I so his wife drives him to work in her SAAB 9-5.\

Last time at Infiniti a lady was trading in her G sedan for the G35X because she couldn't drive it in the snow. As for me I have the luxury of having 3 cars .

shipo

"Sorry but my brothers 330I is horrible in the snow !"

Uh-hu, not buying. My bet is that it's not the car it's the tires. If his 330i is horrible then it has the summer performance tires, which BMW overtly states should not be used in the winter. If his car does not have the Sport Package and has the OEM All-Season rubber then you are overstating the case. My first BMW was a 328i with almost identical rubber as a 330i non-SP, and while it wasn't the best car I've ever driven in the white stuff, it was certainly capable of getting from point A to point B with a minimal amount of fuss. I then got a 530i SP and "YIKES", that thing was horrible in even a bare dusting of snow. Remember I stated "...it's the tires"? Well I put a dedicated set of winter skins on my 530i and Presto-Chango, my car went from the worst winter car I've ever driven to the absolute best, FWD cars included.

What's that you say? I don't live in Maine? You're right, I live in New Hampshire, and over the last three winters we've had over 300 inches of snow. Through it all my 530i only stayed in the garage when the snow was so deep that it would have been nothing more than a snow plow if I'd taken it out. That said, six to eight inches of rutted snow was no problem, even with all of the undulating roads (vertically and horizontally) that we have around here.

Best Regards,
Shipo

fedlawman

The Subaru WRX STi has AWD, 300 HP, and costs - oh, never mind...

blueguydotcom

Saw that one coming.

kdshapiro

Yep. shipo comes around when ya need him.

ivorypearlg

Yes he does have the sport pkg. So he prob didn't think about tires he is a little air headed after all his wife is the money maker cause he doesnt have enough brains to make money. Anyway .. The lady at infiniti thou had 17's and they have the all season rubber i believe and she said her car is bad in the snow.

ivorypearlg

oh, never mind what ? All I stated is that the Sub WRX STI doesn't have creature comforts, but is an excellent performer ! A grand performer ! For the price it is great... If all you want is other people to see your tail lights then that is the car for you !

frisconick

They should have give you at least a Maxima !

shipo

"Saw that one coming."

I would certainly hope so, you left an opening for me large enough to pilot the Queen Mary through. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdshapiro

I don't need creature comforts anymore. Give me a grand performer. STI here I come.

klpeel

bmwe90, sorry for your bad experience with the initial version of the G35! I just bought a 2005, and believe that significant improvements were made in the last two model years. That doesn't excuse the problems you faced, or excuse Infiniti for coming out with the G with so many initial problems (at least with your car), but... The conversation on the BMW3 vs. G35 is interesting, but really I think the two cars serve (slightly) different targets. For me, the 3 series was just a little too small and a little too expensive to meet my needs. If I valued absolute performance over all other considerations, then my choice would have been similar to yours.

jrock65

I don't think the new 330i "blows away" the G in handling, but it is a better handler.

With the 330i you get better handling and the BMW badge.

With the G35 you get better straight-line performance, more interior room, and about $7000 left over.

Of course, nothing beats the Lancer Evolution or the Impreza Sti if you want the most performance for the buck in a sedan.

kdshapiro

"With the 330i you get better handling and the BMW badge"

That is the BMW badge.

taxesquire

aren't the Lancer and WRX pushing $30k these days?

bmwe90

If I had to do it over again, I would not have purchased the G35. But if you asked me if i made the logical and practical decision at the time - I would say yes, of course. From what I gather from the many happy G owners on this board, Infinti does, in most cases, provide a great handling, midsize car for a good sum of $ less than BMW's 3 series. If I hadn't had my sour experience with Infiniti, and I were in the market for a sport sedan - and money was a consideration (as it is for most of us) the G would definently be on my shopping list. The higher price of the 3 series does pose a problem for some buyers in this category, and at any rate, the G provides more interior room than even the new 3. I agree with you that these two cars are serving different targets, but those targets aren't too far apart. I did spend 35,000 miles behind the wheel of my G before it was gone. I have spent about 4k miles in my new 3 and the cars each have their strengths - along with very few weaknesses. I will give you guys/gals my honest opinion of each car (I'll pretend for fairness sake that nothing was wrong with my G)

The G was very quick with it's 260 hp and torque. The car handled well at nearly all speeds but doesn't match BMW for handling at high speeds (90+). the BMW seems more at home the harder you push it while the Infiniti feels like it's up to the task, but it does it with a straight face while the BMW does it with a smile. The BMW has the better interior hands down, quality wise, I wont comment on style because that very objective. The BMW is a tigher squeeze though, and most taller passengers will be asking the driver and font passenger to move up. It seems once you get situated in the BMW, no one complains from lack of space. The Infinti's rear doors open much much wider than the bimmers, though - and the seats also recline in the G. The engines are a tossup, I think the inline 6 is smoother than the v6 in the infiniti but i will agree that infiniti's v6 is probably the second best engine I have ever owned. The transmission in the BMW has an extra gear and seems to shift smoother and quicker. I had a full size spare in my G and I loved it. I don't like the new run flats on my 3. I prefer the BMWs brakes though. BMW does include maintenance, which is nice- but not a deal maker in any respect.

They are both great performers and I think anywho who choses either is getting one of the best sport sedans available in this class.

frisconick

The car handled well at nearly all speeds but doesn't match BMW for handling at high speeds (90+).

Unless you are in Montana, you are not supposed to be going 90+ :P

barry626

With the G35 you get better straight-line performance, more interior room,
and about $7000 left over.

Yes, but u also have to look @ a butt ugly car everyday.
BMW Badge is worth the extra $7,000.00

frisconick

The G sedan is not to my taste, but I wouldn't call it butt ugly. In fact the G coupe is much better looking than any BMW. But looks of a car is very subjective and personal. :P

pgsmith

I have to agree. The G is not butt ugly. After all, if it was VW and Audi wouldn't have sold so many Passats and A4/A6.

How about some design originality out there?

frisconick

LOL, great post. :P

I wouldn't call the VW or Audi's ugly, just bland, almost like American cars. I think MB has great styling, and the TL is very original.

ike15

I don't think the comparison was a fair one. You should of compared the Audi A4 2.0T to the BMW 325 and not the 330.

kdshapiro

I wouldn't call them "butt" ugly, but neither the coupe or sedan has the styling panache of the 3 series. Tastes are very subjective. I actually like the G35 sedan over the coupe.

ctsang

Agree. The "prestige" of BMW for a lot of people definitely worth the extra money. Besides, just think what those chicks think if you tell them you drive a Bimmer! Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

ctsang

When did Subaru become a luxury car brand?

kdshapiro

Have you seen the Tribeca or the Outback? The Tribeca while not a sedan, has comparable amenities to these vehicles.

laurasdada

While I never had any objections to the prior versions of the BMW 3, 5 or 7 (I found them to be clean, handsome and functional designs. Unlike the current mess of odd angles, slab sides and "added on, kit car looking" rear ends.), I'm not sure panache is a word I would use. Yesterday there was a pre-'06 330 in our parking lot with a Mazda 3 sedan behind it. I actually found the Mazda 3 to have a bit more panache! The new BMW 3, thankfully has been toned down, although the rear is straight off a second gen Infiniti G20. The resytled 7 looks significantly better, the 5 has grown on me. But so did the CTS and Aztek! But only slightly...

The G35 sedan is OK stylewise, I'm not a big fan of the rear and it seems a bit "tall and narrow" to me. But the G35 coupe, like the BMW 3 series coupe I find to be works of art, exterior style-wise. YMMV.

kdshapiro

"While I never had any objections to the prior versions of the BMW 3, 5 or 7 (I found them to be clean, handsome and functional designs."

I agree exactly with that assessment. But I also love the new looks. They are very striking and have a great presence. The M6 especially is a head turner, the new M6 convertible. /me wants

The new designs have taken some bad press. But in the real world, where people actually vote with their wallets, the designs actually seemed to be like. It amazes me when I talk to people there are some who didn't like the old, but love the new.

In the end though, we all agree that styling is subjective.

keith61

I would like your opinion on purchasing a Certified 2004 Lexus ES 330.
The car has 16,000 miles and the asking price is $29,990 from our local Lexus dealership. I do not know alot about buying a pre-owned car could any of you give me some do's and dont's?
Thanks!!

laurasdada

I, too, like the 6. Except for the Bangle trunk. IMHO, inelegant, cheap and tacked on looking. An afterthought. Ruins the clean lines. The spartan interiors of the 5 and 6 don't particularly work for me, either.

Another theory is that with the BMW the looks play second fiddle to other factors such as the overall driving balance of the car (or the "prestige" of the blue and white propellor!?). Maybe a potential buyer has to close his eyes when approaching the car ( ), but once behind the wheel, it becomes stunningly beautiful and worthy of a few of the buyer's hard earned $$$!

I wouldn't throw a 6 out of my garage for eating crackers, either!

pat

I'm glad to see you also posted this in our dedicated Lexus ES 300/ES 350 discussion - that's a better place than here for your question.

potemkin

"When did Subaru become a luxury car brand?"

When they started stickering them over $30k.

pat

once again to remind everyone that we are specifically discussing the 6 vehicles listed at the top of this page. I realize the name of the discussion invites the inclusion of vehicles not listed, but the reality is that we are restricted to those six because of the interlinking of this discussion with articles on the main site related to only those six vehicles.

We have been through this many times before so let me try to head off what has happened in the past - this reality cannot be changed at this time.

And we will not go where we've gone before, which is getting mired in how that's not right, and what vehicles should be added because NONE OF THIS CAN BE CHANGED. :-)

So I would really appreciate everyone's cooperation in keeping this conversation primarily focused on the BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lexus IS 300, Mercedes-Benz C-Class and Cadillac CTS.

As always, anyone who want to compare other vehicles is welcome to look at the main Sedans Comparisons list for a suitable topic - if one doesn't exist, feel free to fire up a new one.

Thanks.

blueguydotcom

Unless you are in Montana, you are not supposed to be going 90+

To many of us the law is merely a suggestion. :P

I know on long drives - like SF to San Diego or Las Vegas to San Diego I tend to average over 95 mph (and get over 30 mpg to boot). Nothing quite like flying down the empty I-15 at 1 am doing 130. It's in these trips (and the jaunts on backroad late at night) that I realize how much I love my 330i.

blueguydotcom

Another theory is that with the BMW the looks play second fiddle to other factors such as the overall driving balance of the car (or the "prestige" of the blue and white propellor!?). Maybe a potential buyer has to close his eyes when approaching the car ( ), but once behind the wheel, it becomes stunningly beautiful and worthy of a few of the buyer's hard earned $$$!

Remember you do drive the car from the inside. :P How it looks on the outside isn't relative to how it feels on the road.

Well, unless I'm the typical customer of an idiot salesmen who told me on a test drive to "look at your reflection in the buildings as we pass them. see how cool you look." Gotta wonder if people actually fall for that.

blueguydotcom

>I?Agree. The "prestige" of BMW for a lot of people definitely worth the extra money. Besides, just think what those chicks think if you tell them you drive a Bimmer! Remember the saying, you get what you pay for.

Zero prestige. It's a BMW, dude, not a Ferrari/Lambo.

The only girls impressed by a BMW are bumpkins and golddiggers.

:confuse: prestige...rofl

frisconick

I agree, the G35 coupe and the BMW 3 series are very nice looking cars.

kdshapiro

"Well, unless I'm the typical customer of an idiot salesmen who told me on a test drive to "look at your reflection in the buildings as we pass them. see how cool you look." Gotta wonder if people actually fall for that."

As usual you have me rolling on the floor.

frisconick

I agree, there are so many BMWs on the street the "badge" means nothing. Actually the G35 coupe and the TL might be more impressive to women because they are far less commen than the BMW. :P

blueguydotcom

Frisco, I assume you're kidding. Guys who depend on cars to meet women... :confuse:

frisconick

LOL, I didn't bring it up, someone else did.

However, it doesn't hurt to pick up a date with a nice looking car. Besides I am married and don't date other women that much

ctsang

You need to go to the high end luxury forum. They don't even consider Infinity as a luxury brand, my friend. Again, you get what you pay for. A lot of people still don't know what Infinity or Acura is. There are a lot of people who aspire to dirve MB and BMW. If you don't, that's your or your chick's problem.

ctsang

Looks like even with price over $30K, Subaru still doesn't belong here as a luxury brand. All Hummers are over $30K, but it is not considered a luxury brand.

cdnpinhead

many years ago through a shopping mall parking lot in Scottsdale in his fully tricked-out Corvette, I've lost what respect I used to have for (some) women.

If I hadn't been there, I wouldn't have believed it. But I was. Driving a hot car appears to work in ways that I never knew about then, or care about now, come to it. It's an anthropoligy thing.

I enjoy driving, at high speed, in very rural areas. No people around. Just like I like it.

blueguydotcom

There are a lot of people who aspire to dirve MB and BMW.

Aspire? How can you asprie to get a car that leases for $250 a month? Most of the SUVs in my parking lot at work cost as much or more than my 330i.

If you don't, that's your or your chick's problem.

Problem? LOL. I have a BMW. It's perception. Obviously, where you're from a BMW/MB is still considered something different or foreign. Around here a BMW is no different than a Toyonda.

saigonboi21

hey blueguy, my 330i will arrive at the dealership on monday(they had to truck from an outta state dealer). I cant help but kinda regret not ordering it. I wanted the sport package and bmw assist instead of ZPP but that would take 10 weeks. So i just went with the Zpp instead. So my question is- does the Sport package actually makes the car handle better??? thanks

frisconick

German cars can only hope to be as good as a G35 coupe, especially BMW. The G35 298hp coupe is a BMW killer no doubt.