Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

geebee4

I'm also thinking of switching from a Passat to TL; what was your experience with the TL? The BMW 325i is tempting, but I always go with the practical car and reliability is important. The 2006 Passat sounds good, also; too many decisions.

taxesquire

I love my TL, and I never regret switching from a Passat to a TL. That being said, let me be nitpicky. 1stly, I had a Passat GLX 5MT. Meaning it was a 6 cyl engine with all the amenities standard. I now have a 6MT TL w/ Nav.

I believe the Passat is gonna have about 250 hp, so it's #s will be comparable to the TL, and it might even have more low-end torque, it could be faster 0-30. No way the Passat will handle as well as the TL, though, making the TL a lot more fun to drive. Both interiors are well done - the TL seems a notch above, even though the Passat had real wood and the TLs is fake. If you're going manual transmission, the TLs is by far more enjoyable. I love the early clutch engagement and it shifts very smoothely.

As far as luxury features that I use, it's pretty close. The TLs nav makes it much, much better than the Passat, IMO. But if you're comparing non-nav vehicles, other than a 6-disc changer, I'm not sure what luxury features the TL has that the Passat doesn't. One is that the TLs lights shut-off automatically. Also, I like that the TL doesn't have a loud "ding" to let you know you're low on fuel. I'd often find myself driving where the tank is just at the cutoff level and the light would go on and off, dinging each time. I also like the TLs auto-a/c better. For some reason, the Passat's would always be 1 level too strong for me. The 1 thing that drove me crazy about the Passat was the steering wheel radio controls. The buttons should be on the left and the station changer should scroll the presets - VW got it backwards.

Here are some things I miss from the Passat: the key integrated fob (TL uses a separate FOB and regular key); electric fold-in mirrors; rear sunshade; rain-sensing wipers. Also, the Passat had nicer computer controls b/c (1) there were 2 sets of settings (TL has 1); (2) you didn't need to take your hand off the wheel to scroll through the options; (3) the Passat gave you more info on each screen; (4) the TL makes you hit a "display" button to display mpg, ave mph, etc.

As far as differences that aren't good or bad, the Passat's seats are more firm, the TL's are softer.

Frankly, from what I'v heard of the '06 Passat, it might be a tough deciding between the 2, but I'd expect the TL to give you a better value b/c Passats will probably go for MSRP initially.

To sum up, if you have a top-of-the-line Passat and enjoy it, but want something a tad more luxurious and a lot more sporty, you'll love the TL. If you're all about comfort and convenience, but won't get the nav, it might be close, and there will be some things you miss about the Passat.

Hope this helps!!! Sorry it's so long.

blueguydotcom

Wow, they've done a nice job leapfrogging the mid-size competition. Too bad I don't trust VW to run. Pretty sweet car from all I've read.

One question...it seems no DSG with 2.0 or V6?

klpeel

One thing I might add in the Passat's favor (I just moved from a 2000 GLX to a 2005 G35x): the Passat can come with AWD, something the TL doesn't have. If it did, the TL might have been my choice instead of the G35x.

frisconick

Excellent post, I think you helped the person that was on the fence.

taxesquire

prof_daymean

Hey with my $50k, i want to buy a car :confuse: , but i'm not sure if i should buy the IS250 or IS350? Please advice me,(i need good advices please)?

frisconick

With your 50k, the 35k TL is the best value on the market, no kidding.

laurasdada

My advice? Wait until they (the new IS, that is) are actually available for you to test drive and compare against others that may meet your criteria. You have $50k, do you want to spend it all (Acura RL, Infiniti M, MB E350, BMW 530, Jag S-type, Lexus GS430)? For $35k you could get several cars that can favorably compete with some $50k cars (e.g. Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 3, what the heck Saab 9-3. It's free to test drive! And I'm a Saab guy...).

With the money leftover from your $50k, you could buy me a new Breitling. Or maybe a Girard-Perragaux. I'd even settle for an Omega!

potemkin

Test drive both, of course, then decide for yourself.

But I should point out that the IS350 won't be available with a manual transmission, so if I was forced to choose between either of these two I'd take the IS250 without hesitation, and regardless of price, but that's just me.

What do you mean by "next car"?

frisconick

I agree laurasdada, I am not that impressed with those more expensive cars. :P

taxesquire

We can all give opinions based upon our knowledge and preferences, but you specifically asked for "good" advice, yet you gave us no facts!!! Is this a 3rd car that you're just gonna drive on windy roads on the weekends? Is it a commuter vehicle that'll be left outside at a train station every day? Commuter vehicle that's driven 2 hrs M-F and not on weekends? Family hauler?

nyrefugee

If I had 50k to spend on a car I would get the porsche boxter s (53k). I would not even bother with any lexi.

lmacmil

"For $35k you could get several cars that can favorably compete with some $50k cars (e.g. Acura TL, Infiniti G35, BMW 3"

The new 3 series 330 tested in MT stickered at $47K!!!

blueguydotcom

Yeah with every stupid gadget on earth.

A 330i with 6 mt, leather, sport, pdc, metallic paint, moon and xenon = 40,500k sticker. Or 38,500 with mild negotiating.

frisconick

BMW charges extra for metallic paint? How much do they extra do they charge for a steering wheel, or tires? :P

pg48477

You would not be able to aford it.

frisconick

LOL

blueguydotcom

So does Audi. And they have the best looking colors. Go figure...

frisconick

Actually the BMW colors are very good, have not seen many Audi colors I like very much. Saw a light blue RL that really knocked me out today. I wish the TL would have the same color.

ivorypearlg

I THINK THE 2005 G35 COUPE AND SEDAN IS THE BEST OF THE BEST IN THE ENTRY LEVEL LUXURY PERFORMANCE SEDAN/COUPE MARKET ! INFINITI G35 VS. BMW 330I .... I HAVE A 2003 G35 COUPE BEFORE THE REDESIGN AND I AM LOOKING TO BUY A 05' 06' MODEL ... WENT TO INFINITI FIRST TO SEE WHAT THE TRADE IN WOULD BE AND I WAS PLEASED ! ANYWAY LOOKED AT THE INFINITI G35X LOADED AND IT WAS JUST OVER 40K ! I WAS SO IMPRESSED ! GREAT FEATURES AND THE NEW INTERIOR IS VERY NICE, SEATS ARE SUPPORTIVE AND THE DASH IS MUCH BETTER LOOKING. POWER TILT AND TELO STEERING WHEEL, INTELL KEY, BOSE, REAR RECLINE SEATS, ARE JUST SOME OF THE GREAT OPTS. NOT TO MENTION THE 280 HP 3.5 V6 UNDER THE HOOD! GREAT CAR ALL AROUND !
THEN TRAVELED 10 MINS DOWN THE ROAD TO BMW .... WALKED IN AND WAS WELCOMED AND HOUNDED.... ANYWAY ABOUT THE CAR ... THE 330I IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY.... I LOOKED AT A NEARLY LOADED 330 FOR OVER 52,000 AND WAS SO SO DAZED ! I ASKED THE SALES MAN 52,000 FOR THIS ? HE SAID SIR IT IS A BMW I SAID LISTEN NO 3 SERIES IS WORTH 52,000 EXCEPT FOR THE M ... SO HE ASKED IF I WANTED TO TEST DRIVE .. SURE I SAID... SO I DROVE AND I DROVE FINISHED AND STILL WASN'T IMPRESSED FOR THE PRICE ! SO WHAT DIDN'T I LIKE 1. PRICE 2. EXTERIOR STYLING 3. THUMPY RIDE 4. AND THE 255 HP ENGINE ! FOR 52,000 I THINK I WOULD GET MORE THEN 255 HP ! FIGURE A LOADED INFINITI M45 SPORT IS AROUND 57,000 THE DIFFERENCE IS CLOSER THERE THEN IT IS BETWEEN THE G AND THE 3 ... SO IF YOUR GONNA PAY 52,000 FOR A 3 GO LOOK AT THE M45 WITH A 335 V-8 AND THEN RECONSIDER A NAME PLATE. . ... .... SO FOR THE BANG FOR THE BUCK CONTEST ALONG WITH FUN TO DRIVE CONTEST AND JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER CONTEST THE G COMES OUT ON TOP EXCEPT FOR THE 3'S INTERIOR IS NICER SUITED...
BOO BMW ... SORRY BMW FANS BUT WHEN SOMEONE SAYS ENTRY-LEVEL LUX PERFORM SEDANS I THINK 30 TO 40 RANGE NOT 45 TO 55 RANGE.

frisconick

I agree with much of your post, but why all the CAPS.

blueguydotcom

Ivory

1. Stop yelling.

2. 50k for a 3 = a 3 with a lot of silly junk on it like laser cruise, active steering (neither is available on a G35). Active Cruise adds 2200, active cruise 1200, navi 2k, power rear sunshade 600. So take off every item on the 3 that is not available on the G35.

Yes, the 3 will still be more expensive but what you're comparing now is a grapefruit to an apple, not an apple to an apple.

barry626

So glad we are entitled to our opinions
You pay over $40,000 for a car that should be no more than $17,000.
I will be thrilled to pay $50,000 for a car that's worth every penny.
Infact: I paid $48,800.00 for my 330i and it's worth every penny!
Have fun with your G35 & I will with my class act BMW.
Isn't life wonderful

kdshapiro

Check out the R/T review of the G35 vs 330. While the G35 won in some performance categories, the 330 had faster laps on the track.

HP is not everything, but I respect your opinion. After all it's your money.

hawkeye3

For another opinion, check out the 9/05 M/T comparison of 330i, G35 & A4. "...delivering BMW-competitive performance and handsome looks for about 85% of a 330i's base price makes the G35 a remarkable stand-out-if only a second place winning standout. Which means 330i, were returning to you your crown."

ps- 330i with sport & premium package MSRP at less than $42K.

blueguydotcom

ps- 330i with sport & premium package MSRP at less than $42K.

PS the premium package is expensive and worthless. Just get the leather and save your money on the extra silly doo-dads from the premium package.

potemkin

"THE BANG FOR THE BUCK..."

Not everyone wants their vehicle to go "BANG".

If you're partial to fuel economy and you think that 200+ HP is more than enough, than the 325i equipped with just the SP and a 6-speed manual tranny will provide you with plenty of that "FUN TO DRIVE" factor. Plus, it's less expensive than the G35.

"NOT TO MENTION THE 280 HP 3.5 V6 UNDER THE HOOD!"

What! You're talking about a car equipped with an AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION! You simply have no idea what FUN is.

frisconick

I thought the G sedan was cheaper than almost any BMW. However, the G coupe I am not sure. But the G coupe with 298hp is a powerful machine that BMW has trouble competing against.

blueguydotcom

Says who? The HP numbers on the G35 aren't the end of the story. Having driven both very hard I can say without a doubt the chassis of the FM isnt up to e46 standards. Obviously, the e90 is even better.

frisconick

Are you talking about the G sedan or coupe? I found very little diff between the 330 sedan and coupe, but a big diff between the G coupe and sedan. I know this is a sedan comparo, so I agree that the BMW sedan is superior. But coupe versus coupe, I don't think the 330ci is superior to the G coupe.

blueguydotcom

I try to forget i ever had the misfortune of driving either the G35c or 330ci. Not my bag.

frisconick

I am surprised, these are great cars, sedan or coupe. What is your bag? :surprise:

blueguydotcom

The coupes have too much chassis flex. And in the G35c outward vision is compromised too much. It makes the BMW seem almost pleasant for outward vision. Almost.

BTW, you're not gonna catch me calling either car great. Great would be some mythical blend of perfect comfort, poise, power, handling, reliability. Can't say BMW or Infiniti has all of that.

taxesquire

Great would be some mythical blend of perfect comfort, poise, power, handling, reliability. Can't say BMW or Infiniti has all of that.

The TL does!!!

blueguydotcom

poise and handling = not to my liking in a TL. It's too heavy, too big , wrong wheel driven and way too soft for me. I know you love it. Enjoy.

frisconick

I agree, that describes the TL perfectly. :P

The TL too big? I guess some would think so, try an 06 IS, might be a good fit, but I think it's too small.

blueguydotcom

Or the IS350 is missing a key ingredient: manual.

I'll still try one. It'd take something mighty persuasive to get me into a run-of-the-mill automatic. If the car had a dsg-style tranny, then it'd be a total contender for my dollar. But a straight automatic? If the IS350 loaded costs 30k, then I'd seriously consider buying one with a craptastic automatic. Otherwise, the drive is just to quiet my curiosity.

frisconick

A car that sporty with no MT??? That's strange, and I think a mistake.

ivorypearlg

2006 330i Sedan
Destination Charge
$695
Exterior
Monaco Blue Metallic
$475
Interior
Gray Dakota Leather
Included
Aluminum Trim
Packages
Sport Package
$1,600
Premium Package
$2,200
Cold Weather Package
$1,000
MSRP
$36,300
Price as configured
$46,265
Options
STEPTRONIC automatic transmission
$1,275
On-Board Navigation System w/iDrive
$2,000
Satellite Radio
$595
Carpeted Floor Mats
$125
That was with none of the interesting gizmos $46,265.00

2005 Infiniti G35

Total Configured MSRP† $38,740.00
Model: G35
Exterior: Ivory Pearl
Interior: Stone Leather
Standard Features
• 280-hp 3.5-liter (3,498cc) DOHC V6 engine
• Electronically controlled 5-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
• Leather Interior
Packages and Options
Premium Package (without full size spare) $3350

Aero Package $550

DVD Infiniti Navigation System $2000

Sport Tuned Suspension Package $750
Accessories
SIRIUS™ Satellite Radio $400

Trunk Mat with Standard Space Saver Tire $80
Base MSRP $31,000.00
Total Packages, Options, & Accessories $7,130.00
Destination & Handling $610.00
Total Configured MSRP† $38,740.00

That is a total of $7,525.00 in difference of cost ! These are packaged with comparable options.

As far as I am concerned my INFINITI G35 is worth more then $17,000 ! What makes your BMW worth more ? Is it because it is German engineered ? there is nothing special there esp. since INFINITI ranked # 1 in relibality i believe last year ? could be wrong ....

Blueguydotcom sorry about the CAPS but I dont know just didn't bother to switch well anyway even without all the crap there is still a difference in the price between the BMW and the INFINITI .. A nice size one .

And the Bang for the Buck yes I understand not everyone is looking for that and either was I and I dont need too but as far as I am concerned I will continue to buy into the INFINITI name plate because they are great looking cars, great acting cars, relibale cars and worth the money and if it was all about a name plate my three car garage would have Mercedes - Benz written all over it ! But then agian it is just an opinion .

One last thing you have to remember that The new 325I and 330I was aimed at the INFINITI G35 and that the G35 was aimed at the older 2005 and before model. Therefore I think there will be a crown toss between INFINITI and BMW for many years to come not to say ACURA and AUDI and MB wont come out with future great products !

Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive and have that universal appeal of highway driving and city driving its great !

blueguydotcom

Stuff I want:

330i 6 MT- with leather, sport package, metallic paint, power seats, xenon, series 7stereo, moonroof = 40k.
G35 6 MT - with sport package, premium package (bose stereo, power seats, moon) = 35k

Shrug. don't have any use for bmw's premium package. to each his own. I see a 5k difference. For me, I'd rather pay 5k extra and be happy. I'm not happy with a G35...sit's too high, snap oversteer isn't my bag, engine's rough, shifter's not that great.

as I am concerned I will continue to buy into the INFINITI name plate because they are great looking cars, great acting cars, relibale cars and worth the money

Quite reliable. They're a tremendous value for price to performance.

Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive and have that universal appeal of highway driving and city driving its great !

BTW, I probably won't be buying another 330i. BMW's inability to fix an engine problem I've had for 3 months means I'm gonna take a break from BMW. M3's probably the only way i'll end up back at BMW.

Have a nice evening.

potemkin

1. You failed to note that the Steptronic in the 330i is a six-speed, whereas the G35 is a five-speed.

2. The premium package IS full of "interesting gizmos".

3. Comparably equipping cars is subject to personal tastes so its no more a persuasive argument that simply insulting the other guy's intelligence...
Compare the price difference between the base G35 and MY choice of BMW:
325i (Not drag racing for pinks, so excess engine output is just increasing our dependence on imported oil and shrinking my wallet.)
Jet Black paint (no add'l cost, and looks better than most metallic paints.)
Manual tranny (DSGs are nice, but I still want greater clutch control. No one should drive an automatic without a doctor's excuse.)
Sports Package (Just really like everything in it.)
Xenon headlights (Tired of being blinded by on-coming traffic? Return the favor!)
MSRP: $32,700 + destination.

The reason I didn't get the G35 was the lack of options. There was simply no way to get the price down for those of us who don't want bloated cars. $250.00 off for going with the manual? That's ridiculous. The dealers don't improve things: every G35 on every lot within 100 miles had the premium package. Yeah, with the G you get more car. (Whether you want it or not!)

"The new 325I and 330I was aimed at the INFINITI G35"

The new 3 was "aimed at" drivers. Despite what the ads may imply, BMW isn't interesting in copying others -- only improving on what came before. It's Infiniti and Lexus who feel compelled to "aim" at a competitor's product.

"Also with the great new manumatic type trans I believe that the auto's are fun to drive"

Believe that all you want, but you won't convince me or many other stick lovers. They just aren't there yet.

kyfdx

Did anyone ever say that BMWs are cheap?

It is more expensive to get the BMW or Mercedes model with the same content.. either you think the car is worth the extra money, or you don't...

Infiniti and Lexus have made their mark by making Mercedes and BMW substitutes for less money.. I don't think it is news that their cars have lower prices..

Is it?

blueguydotcom

325i (Not drag racing for pinks, so excess engine output is just increasing our dependence on imported oil and shrinking my wallet.)

330i gets better gas mileage than the 325i. :P

taxesquire

A car that sporty with no MT

But it's got those cute little paddles!!! LOL - I think it's a huge joke all the advertising given to the autoshift mechanisms. Whether it's paddles, steering wheel push buttons or on the gear selector, they're all nice for a change of pace, and maybe to slow down without using your brake, but that's about it.

kdshapiro

It may get better mileage is certain conditions. My commute is partly 10 miles of fast acceleration and stomp on the brakes. This is not your grandma's EPA gas mileage test. This type of commute is the worst of the worst in terms of gas mileage. The 330 does not have better mileage in conditions such as I described.

blueguydotcom

Dunno. I do know if I'm a good boy I can get mid to high 20s in my commute. On long freeway drives I get killer mileage (30+). Really it's only because I like to live above 4k rpm that my daily commute only nets me ~22 mpg.

potemkin

I kept my 318ti at a low boil (4500+ RPM) the whole time (well, up to cruising speed anyways -- then I start using those 'throw away' gears: 4th & 5th) and still got ~30 MPG.

I think that with the way I drive, I'm getting better mileage in my E46 325i than I would be if I'd gotten the 330i (at least I hope so, otherwise I'd have to kick myself, and I'm just too old to contort my joints that way).

potemkin

"A car that sporty with no MT??? That's strange, and I think a mistake

A manual will be available on the IS250, just not the IS350.

Which means that if you told me I had to choose between a 6-speed IS250 and a paddle shifted DSG IS350, I'd take the IS250 without hesitating. Even if they were the same price.

ivorypearlg

INFINITI and BMW have made great cars along with LEXUS and other cars in this class but as far as I am concerned I like the INFINITI line up they are great cars with just what I want. If I wanted the 330i or even the 545i I would have just went and bought one.... They didn't appeal to me so I didn't buy. Although the BMW won its crown back I would still choose the INFINITI ... Its just what I like, even thou I am now looking at the Lexus GS430 ... Good car ? I have never bought a Lexus. I like the new IS350 also do you think I should wait or go with the GS ?

I also believe that BMW does look at other cars when designing ... If they didn't what info and other stuff would they have to go by. Not saying they dont make there cars better but I am sure they do look at other cars while in the process making . Ooo and you forgot about AUDI. . .

Again with the Manumatic trans types vs. manuals ? It is all up to who wants what, what your driving conditions are and who is driving the car. First of all I have city and highway driving and the Manumatic trans is great ! If I am traveling on the highway i can throw it into manual mode and have some fun ... If I am driving with my parents in the city and there is stop and go traffic the auto mode is great so the Manumatic trans is best for me ! Then my wife doesn't know how to drive manual trans so I cant buy one cause we usually switch off cars .