Subaru Crew Cafe

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No problem. :)

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    OK ... you have to check out the last sentence in the next to last question ....

    http://www.gay.com/business/article.html?sernum=330

    and YES it's Subaru-related ....
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    thought they were gonna list juices miata
  • Yesterday in Salt Lake City, three photographers from a local newspaper were walking down the sidewalk when a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee jumped the curb and pinned two of them against a building.

    The 75-year-old driver panicked and jumped out of the vehicle with the two men still crushed between the Jeep and a wall. He claims that the Jeep went out of control.

    What's your first thought as to what happened? Mine was that the older driver hit the accelerator instead of the break. At least I thought that until I heard the next piece...

    The Jeep's engine was still revving before the driver turned off the accelerator and jumped out. The third photographer, attempting to save his colleagues, leaned into the Grand Cherokee, started it, and put the vehicle's shifter in reverse. The Jeep quickly accelerated away from the building and the trapped men, so fast that it ran over the photographer who put it in reverse.

    The two trapped men are in critical condition, and one has completely lost a leg.

    Scary stuff. I'm usually skeptical of "unintended acceleration" claims, but I think this one is genuine.

    Edit: here's a link to an article on it, from the same paper the photographers worked for: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,590045642,00.html

    -Ty
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Brenda/Swampy: hadn't ever heard any one say that about Miatas.

    Here is what Auto Pacific says about Miata Owners:

    Who is this buyer? Miata owners are most likely male (63%), married (68%), college educated (68%) and 47 years of age (median). They are mostly working professionals, managers and retirees that have an annual household income of $82,400 (median). They enjoy listening to music, using their home computers and spending time with friends.

    68% are married so I wonder what their wives think about them being gay. LOL

    Ty: I don't think we have nearly enough detail. The accelerator pedal could have gotten stuck in the carpeted floor mats, it could be something that simple.

    I guess the 2 were already pinned, but in any such situation the brakes are far, far more powerful than the engine and could at least prevent further forward progress. Or it could simply have been put in nuetral. The driver made several errors, even if it's not entirely his fault.

    -juice
  • I guess you misunderstood my intentions, Juice. Unintended acceration can happen for a variety of reasons, many of which are not the fault of the manufacturer. Frozen/sticky cables, debris around the pedals, bad throttle position sensors, etc...

    Whatever the cause, this kind of incident is a sober reminder of how to handle this kind of situation:
    1. If you loose control of acceleration, put the vehicle in neutral FIRST. Let the engine rev all it wants; if it's not in gear it can't accelerate.
    2. Then apply the brake.
    3. Don't shut off the engine until you've come to a complete stop. Shutting off the engine prematurely will cut off your braking and steering ability.

    Be safe everyone!

    -Ty
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case I agree...

    -juice
  • emtemt Member Posts: 39
    Why did Subaru stop the use of the CVT? Did they have problems with it? I know it was used in the Justy. I am curious because GM announced it is stopping production, for now, of the CVT they use due to problems and Ford is going to use a CVT in the new 500 AWD models. I believe Nissan is using a CVT now, but I have not heard to much about it. Maybe I should check the Nissan board. Anywho....just wondering.....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Justy was discontinued, so the ECVT model went with it.

    I presume GM's CVT you refer to is the one in the Saturn Vue. They delayed production several times and probably still have not figured it out. It's tough to manage that torque with a moving belt.

    Nissan has the Murano CVT, I think that's one of the more successful designs. Audi has a CVT on the A6 which has also been successful. The A6 CVT actually managed 20 mpg city, but it's only FWD, no quattro with CVT.

    We'll see how Ford does, hopefully better than GM. And the 500/Freestyle will offer CVT with AWD, I believe. If so they'll even trump Audi.

    Subaru may be too small to amortize the costs of a new CVT that could withstand the torque of its best engines, particularly the 2.5T.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    has been redesigned. It's now called the Justy G3, I believe, and is still a Europe-only car.

    Bob
  • emtemt Member Posts: 39
    I hope Ford does well with it's CVT as I think if they have problems with the 500, Ford will be in dire straights. They are using a CVT from ZF and my previous experience with ZF transmissions has not been very good. Ford can't balance their books on the F150 forever. As far as Subaru making a new CVT, why should they? The auto boxes they have now are good ones and as the old saying goes... if it ain't broke....
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Isn't that just a re-badged Suzuki Swift, Bob? They only kept the name, basically.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    huh? what ZF transmission did you not have a good experience with? the one in my E36 M3 is awesome, a little frightening at how readily it shifts into any gear perhaps, but awesome.

    ~c
  • emtemt Member Posts: 39
    My 89 Eagle had a ZF auto 4 speed in it. 2 units replaced in the first 17K miles. The second one did not even make it out of the dealers driveway! At one point the dealer had more units in for transmission replacement than new cars on the lot. I dumped the car after the third unit was replaced. Chrysler lost a bundle on this one and a good customer. I now drive/own a Subaru and Toyota...and a Kawasaki.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A re-badged Suzuki, but it's still around.

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    IMHO dead, since Subaru no longer builds it, but technically still around in name only.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's quite possible ZF builds units to the specifications of the manufacturer. So the same company can put out a great tranny, or worthless junk, if that's what Chrysler specified.

    Bob: in the context of the ECVT, Subaru no longer builds a Justy, so naturally that feature disappeared.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=00689032

    This will be interesting to follow. It's a cross between a 4-door sedan and a coupe; not as practical as a traditional sedan, but more practical than a 2-door coupe. This is a new model, and is not a replacement for either the 4-door E-Class or 2-door CLK. I think it looks absolutely stunning.

    I wonder if any other carmakers will offer such a configuration?

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Looks nice but I'd wack my head every time I climb in rear. Ouch!

    DaveM
  • dt63944dt63944 Member Posts: 66
    Hi,
    I thought I'd repost my question since it was not previously answered:

    Does the 04 XT radio have an AUX input so I can install Sirius radio without requiring a separate FM modulator?

    Thanks,
    Dave
  • emtemt Member Posts: 39
    In reference to ZF. You are right, they probably make a great tranny, but Chrysler was to cheap to fork over a few extra bucks for a good one, so I got junk. Funny though, I did not pay a "junk" price for the car. That is what was and is still wrong with Chrysler and the "American" car companies in general. Even the head of Ford said a few months back that the Toyota Camry was a better car than what Ford builds. If he can see that, then why does he not correct it???? I hope Ford has the brains to have ZF build a good CVT instead of trying to save a few bucks on the the sticker of the new 500 sedan. I would rather pay an extra $2000 for a car that won't break than to buy a car that the dealer has more than I do... even though I got it at a "bargain" price. Have a great day

    Joe
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Unfortunately that's a common characteristic of coupes,regardless of how many doors it has.

    Now if MB were to replace the E-Class with this vehicle, I'd be complaining. That's not the case however, so those who want rear headroom still have a choice within the MB family. BTW, if it's just kids who will go back there, headroom is less of an issue.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I'm not talking about rear headroom, I'm talking about the rear door opening. My head would become well acquainted with the roof line. :(

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    for kids, I don't think it's a big issue. For adults, yes, it's a big issue.

    For most people who buy coupes, the rear seat is mostly an afterthought. Anybody who uses the rear seat often, won't be attracted to this type of car.

    Personally, I'd rather have this set up, than a 2-door set up

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    STi cop car being used for improving relations between police and young people.

    http://www.subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11951

    This time in Oz.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Stunning. Does MB make an ugly vehicle??
  • Try going to Car Talk's main website. The first thing you see is a monster truck and Outback mated together. They have this whole "educational" piece on the topic. Ugh.

    -Ty
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    their weekly column was in our local paper Tuesday. They're just more of the people who don't know 'the rest of the story' behind the reclassifcation. *sigh*

    -Brian
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Tom and Ray from Cartalk have always railed against SUV's. They love Subaru. IMHO, what they say in their response makes sense. Subaru owns the market for mid priced AWD CARS. They have loyal, repeat customers. Why screw up what they spent years trying to create?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    SOA expected all the negative response over this.

    What I'm not clear on, is it just the increased ground clearance that makes the new Outback a truck? Is there a certain ground clearance limit, that once you exceed that, a vehicle can no longer be classified a car? Are there any other issues with the new Outback that classifies it as a truck? I've heard about deep tinted windows (does the Outback have this?), and the EPA turbo loophole thingy.

    Bob
  • I think the Outback reclassification came from the increased height and a reworking of the bumpers. There's a number of different criteria a vehicle needs to meet before becoming a truck, and the Outback just needed the height and bumper changes.

    I could understand the harsh criticism if Subaru were the only auto maker using the loophole to their advantage, but, let's face it, Subaru is the LAST automaker to do this. IMHO, Subaru's change is far less insulting than Chrysler classifying the PT Cruiser as an SUV to make up ground for poor gas mileage averages in the rest of their fleet. At least Subaru's non-turbo vehicles have decent fuel consumption compared to the guzzlers (trucks and SUVs, mostly) other makes create.

    Hmmm. As I ponder it, I'm thinking that some Subaru loyalists who saw Subaru as the only alternative, green-friendly, make in the market feel betrayed. That could explain the harsh words.

    In a way, those types of customers are a bit betrayed. Subaru is moving towards a performance-oriented, more expensive, type of car. The WRX, STi, F XT, and upcoming Legacy turbos are clear indicators of this trend. Turbos don't do much for fuel economy, and this reclassification may have been the last straw for them. I'm just guessing here.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

    This gives some basic information under "Who classifies vehicles..." but there must be more. I just send an e-mail to NHTSA and I hope they will reply.

    I think things like dark tinted windows are allowed on a truck not that it makes it a truck.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that some of those who bought the *anti-SUV* Outback feel betrayed.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that some of those who bought the *anti-SUV* Outback feel betrayed.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I said it a few weeks ago: The PT was introduced as a truck. The Outback is being remade into a truck. Chrysler never touted the PT as the anti-SUV. Subaru did. Chrysler didn't have great relationships with a number of environmental groups. Subaru did.

    If Subaru came out with a new model as an SUV from Day 1, I think reaction would be different.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If the Outback had always been classified as a multi-purpose vehicle, like all SUVs and minivans, this would be a non-issue.

    Bob
  • Good point, robr2. I was traveling for a couple of weeks when you made those comments, and I just skimmed over the posts to catch up. Sorry I missed it the first time.

    So, do you think Subaru is intentionally distancing itself from the green crowd? Are they pushing the performance envelope in order to move into an entirely new segment for them, or trying to increase their penetration to new markets while keeping the old one?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    looking to new markets, such as performance. That's the only way they will increase their sales volume in sun-belt states. They still very much want to thought of as the eco-friendly SUV alternative, however.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    tyguy - no need to apologize. I just didn't want anyone else to think that I like to repeat things.

    I don't think that Subaru is distancing itself away from the environmentally aware market intentionally. But it is a pretty small niche and they want to expand their share of the market just like everybody else. They are starting to see competition in the car based crossover segment and 240 HP family cars are becoming the norm. They have to change. I think the Outback is becoming an SUV only because Subaru couldn't meet market demands for SUV features and performance without sacrificing fuel economy.

    edit - Bob makes a good point. Subaru gets something like 50% of it's sales in the northeast. Down south they don't even rate.
  • I'm curious to see how well Subaru will compete for the SUV-alternative crowd when the hybrid SUVs start arriving. Those should get better gas mileage than the Outback and Forester (real-world results seem pretty disappointing with the current generation of hybrids). I know it's been mentioned before, but if Subaru is going to continue alluring the SUV-alternative crowd, hybrid technology will be important for them to do so. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but that could be one area where a large corporate partner like GM could prove beneficial, in expensive hybrid R&D (I know, I know, NO GM parts in a Subaru). :-)
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    Subaru has developed a loyal following for practical and functional cars. The addition of more power opens up additional markets.

    My concerns are the repeated references to becoming a "premium" brand, "premium makes" have a distinctive look that make them readily identifible, etc. There are LOTS of wannabe premium makes. I fear that in moving upmarket, they will distance themselves from their core customers.

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    CLS looks good, a little too much similarity with the Acura TL, but that car is also good looking so one can forgive. It's handsome.

    Dave's complaint is valid even for kids, Bob. You have to put kids up to 80 lbs in a booster seat, my 4 year old still needs help getting the belt buckled and routed properly with no folds or creases in the belt, for safety.

    So yes, the parent is going to bump his/her head every time they load the kids.

    Dave: I do not think the XT has such an audio input, no.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think a lot of people have create a double-standard and are being overly harsh on Subaru. The 2005 Outback will be a legit alternative to SUVs, why not pick on the PT Cruiser convertible instead? Why hold Subaru to a higher standard?

    OK, they've been popular with the green crowd in the past, but guess what? They're now on the wait list for the Prius and RX400H, or Highlander. Subaru will lose those sales, period. The PZEV Outback is just not that popular.

    Without enough money to develop their own hybrid, they had to broaden their appeal, given these green customers are goners. Am I wrong?

    Besides, why give trucks a break at all? I think only fleet commercial vehicles should, as the law originally intended. Under that very intention, a Hummer H2 is no more qualified than a Honda S2000, both are personal use vehicles and should meet the same CAFE standards (and safety standards, and emissions standards, and bumper standards, and rollover standards, etc.)

    But instead we essentially have a system that subsidizes those who cheat. Period. That's a fact. If truck have easier-to-meet standards, they are cheaper to build, and more profitable.

    So you are Subaru, you've lost the green crowd to the hybrids and won't have yours ready for 2-3 years at least, even throwing your entire R&D budget into them.

    What would you do?

    This was pure "if you can't beat them, join them".

    -juice
  • I'm totally with you on the double standard, Juice. However, I do think that trucks should have different, but increasingly stringent, requirements for emissions and fuel consumption requirements. While certainly not representing the majority of owners out there anymore, there are many owners who use their trucks for their intended purpose. Contractors, for example, need more power for pulling and hauling, which would almost be impossible to match to a small sedan's emissions and fuel consumption. My mom tows 11,000 worth of horses and trailor. A truck with a Honda 4-cyl. emissions certainly is not going to accomplish that.

    Hmmm, what would I do if I were Subaru? (only half serious here) Beat the hybrids at their own game and focus on hydrogen. Nothing gets cleaner than water and oxygen emissions. Let Honda, Toyota, Ford, etc... spend loads of money on R&Ding product that could be antiquated before it seriously comes to market. Check out this little article: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/02/13/hydrogen.reactors.ap/i- ndex.html Now wouldn't that be cool? I think it would be worthwhile just to be able to say, "Yeah, you may have 300 HP under that hood, by I've got a hydrogen REACTOR."

    :-)

    -Ty
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Know, I have been reading and hearing about Subaru appealing to the so called green crowd and while no doubt it did, come on lets get realistic here, in the overall scheme of things this so called crowd is in reality a small percentage of overall sales.

      And while a company as small as Subaru cannot afford to lose a lot of sales this present controversy is a storm in a teacup, it has already largely blown over.

      BTW the real green crowd don't even own cars:-)

       Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Juice, even so a 4-door coupe like the CLS is easier to put kids in the back than if it were a 2-door. All I'm saying is that style often takes precedence over function when the word "coupe" is involved.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I expect one in the not-to-distant future. The B9SC concept is a hybrid, so we know Subaru is seriously looking into hybrids as a possibility.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    When people here say "green" market I think it gets convoluted. IMHO, green market for Subaru means environmentally concious, not people who strap themselves to trees in a logging area.

    Subaru has appealled to that group - which is probably pretty big - by saying for the past few years: Look at us - like an SUV but not an SUV.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    BTW the real green crowd don't even own cars:-)
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