Subaru Crew Cafe

pattipc

think about it I realize that you aren't). Ed would be close. I did see that seating chart but that's what I'm not sure about - is AA afer Z or nearer the "real" A? Oh well - it'll probably be fun either way. We rarely get to spend time together these days and music is a great bonding opportunity. We have similar tastes so - - we'll see. Thanks for the help folks! Dave - I owe you an e-mail. I'll be on my work computer later today and I'll be in touch.

Thanks!

Patti

hypov

-Dave

rsholland

http://www.challengedriving.com/

Lots of first-hand up to date info over at nabisco from Glenn. There's a specific Alcan thread over there in the "Motorsports" area. Sounds like the Subies ae doing great!

Bob

hypov

Patti-
It's after Z



This is the Indoor EndStage chart.

-Dave

dcm61

you seeing at the Tweeter, Patti?

DaveM

designman

Hey Bob, I finally made it to the cafe. Nice place... I'll have a double espresso.

"Designman, you can defend the Aztek, and then castigate Bangle's work!?!?

Bob <banging his head against the wall>"

First of all, by talking about SUVs we're trying to make the pig look pretty. I'm not by any means bowled over by the Aztek but I do think the front end has an avant garde look to it that is original. As I've said before, the Bangle BMWs are rife with plagiarism.

But please, it's Saturday, let's just enjoy the espresso and not put any stress on ourselves over this.

;-)

hondafriek

I am getting the same message plus all the gibberish at the top of the page, I don't why they have to mess with the setup every few months.

 Cheers Pat.

c_hunter

It's job security, otherwise they'd have nothing to get paid for!

Craig

lark6

Patti: AA comes after Z but you can see that now. ;-) So who are you seeing?

Speaking of trips into Center City Philadelphia, I received VIP passes to the Flower Show from SoA again this year. Thanks so much! My wife and I will have to find a sitter for that evening. I expect that I'll be playing in the dirt a lot more this year, as a little boy deserves a nice yard in which to run and play. Gardening supplies, lawn tools and equipment, plants and flowers, mulch, and stone to buld a patio are among the many things my Forester has hauled.

rangner: I don't know if there are any "bad apples" at PennDOT, but there don't have to be for the roads to be in the shape they are now.

Ed

pattipc

We're seeing a group named "Perfect Circle". I've been listening to them for about a year and I really enjoy their music.

Ed - I'm glad you got Flower Show tickets! What a way to get that Spring feeling started. If you bring your son, I'm sure he'll be fascinated with the beautiful colors. Have fun!

Patti

dcm61

I got them also and would have taken my Mom but unfortunately we have to leave for a 10 day cruise that evening or very early the next morning. Live is just full of compromises. :-)

DaveM

bluesubie

Why do Touareg owners move both crossbars to the rear of the car? Are they trying to create a spoiler look?

-Dennis

dcm61

PT Cruiser owners do the same thing.

DaveM

ateixeira

Those look like good seats, you're in front of some of the boxes, and it looks like you'll have noone directly in front of you, just a walk way.

Crossbars: it's so that the Jolly Green Giant can pick them up from the basket handle.

-juice

robr2

IMHO - any crossbar can cause noise at highway speeds. Sliding them back moves the noise away from the driver.

hondafriek

I just leave the crossbars off until I am actually going to use them.

  Cheers Pat.

bluesubie

Mine are off as well, but I think the Forester looks a little more squashed without them.

-Dennis

ateixeira

Forester looks less substantial without them. Shorter. Dunno.

My 25mpg average is among the better ones and I've always left them on, they can't be that bad for fuel efficiency.

-juice

rsholland

I think VW has come up with an excellent idea here.

It's funny this topic just came up, as I was looking at a Touareg today, with the front cross bar moved to the rear, and up against the rear crossbar, to make a 1-piece unit.

I really like that idea. It probably is less noisy, and I suppose could act as a spoiler at high speeds.

Bob

rsholland

I saw two silver EVOs on the road today. These are the first ones I've seen on the road. Period!

Bob

rsholland

to debut at Mexican Rally. There have been a host of improvements made, as compared to the '03 WRC car; mostly under the skin.

http://www.subdriven.com/artman/publish/article_146.shtml

Bob

njswamplands

imagine how many lifes would be saved

locke2c

can't be done. a rollcage is not safe unless the occupants are wearing helmets. not to mention entering and exiting a vehicle with door bars-- a major component of what makes the cage valuable in a crash-- is difficult even for able bodied adults. and annoying, too.

cars are as safe as they can be within practical and usable limits.

~c

rsholland

to debut at NY show. It appears to be nothing more than a good looking TrailBlazer, if that's what you want...

http://www2.saabusa.com/97release/

Bob

rsholland

Next Land Rover Discovery is really quite handsome. No longer does it look like it was styled in someone's basement. The rear-mounted spare has been moved inside. I suspect it also has the Range Rover's independent suspension. Now if they can only keep it screwed together...

http://www2.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=2634&ca- tegoryId=12

Bob

rsholland

the new Rover wagon's ultra-low load floor! It appears to be lower than the rear axle!

I've long wondered about this possibility, as it certainly lowers the center of gravity quite a bit, which is great. The Rover is most likely FWD, so maybe that's not such a trick afterall.

For this to occur on a RWD or 4WD/AWD vehicle, I would think you would have to do one of two things: (1) have the driveshaft and rear dif/axle end somewhere in the passenger compartment, and incorporate some sort of ultra-long motorcycle-like swing arm rear suspension on both outside edges of the vehicle, or (2) combine idea #1 with rear wheel-driven electric motors.

In any case, it's a fascinating idea that I would love to see further explored.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/

Bob

jimmyp1atwork

and I don't want to tick you off, Bob, but the new LR has too much Ford DNA.

Jim

njswamplands

rsholland

Doesn't tick me off at all.

It's either that or Land Rover goes down the tubes. Which would you rather see happen? If LR is to survive, and since it's owned by Ford, you have to expect some platform/parts sharing.

BTW, the all-new Volvo S40/V50 shares its platform with the Focus. I have no problems with that, or the final product.

Bob

robr2

"the all-new Volvo S40/V50 shares its platform with the Focus" Don't froget that's the all new euro market Focus that's not coming to NA which is expected to be even better than the current one. I mention this as many people can't separate driving dynamics from quality issues and will attack this sharing.

tincup47

The new Discovery has very few Ford parts, certainly nothing in the drivetrain, chassis, suspension, AWD system, body or interior. It is not based on any Ford platform. It has more Jaguar influence as it will use their engines, not Ford's.

ateixeira

Really, Bob? I've seen dozens of EVOs. Probably more than STis, come to think of it.

9-7 is indeed a better looking TrailBlazer. Funny, GM should just put Saab in charge of styling for all divisions, all their rebadged cars look better than the original. GM's face lifts look awful.

I love the new Disco's front. The rear is a little strange, but I'll take that boxy style purely for the function. It's a good update, overall.

If the GVWR is over 6000 lbs, don't show it to my wife, she'll fo "section 179 crazy".

-juice

hondafriek

GM has a real chrome fetish, they have these horrible big chrome bars and appendages stuck on everything, somebody should tell them that broad chrome horizontal bars on grills and trunk lids went out with the dinosaurs:-)

  Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

I know what you mean, I really dislike the new Chevy face, with the wide chrome stripe across the entire face.

Then they put the Avalance front on the Chevy trucks, which looks kinda silly.

The Malibu even got the look, now that looks strange.

-juice

hondafriek

Looks strange period:-)

  Cheers Pat.

rsholland

I think recent full-size Chevy pickups are among the worst looking trucks ever. Bar none.

I'm hoping that the retro SSR is a hint of the future look of their next-generation full-size trucks. I think Chevy trucks of the early-mid 1950s is a good starting point to develop a future "Chevy truck face." The direction they've been heading in recent years is a dead end IMO.

Bob

ateixeira

Even the SSR has the chrome stripe across the front. Or is it brushed alum?

-juice

[Deleted User]

I'm going to have to disagree with positive update idea on the Discovery. The old Discovery was a high-clearance, solid-axle, full-time 4WD unit with lots of off-road goodies. If they're changing this model to another grocery hauler and soccer-mom vehicle, I'm going to be sorely disappointed. The pool of vehicles that can handle more than a washboard dirt road seems to be dwindling away.

I guess I'm just the old-school SUV type. I bet LR will sell more Discoverys if they join the on-road SUV crowd.

-Ty

rsholland

I don't mind the bar per say. It's just executed with the finesse of a gorilla.

Bob

tincup47

The New Discovery (actually LR3 in North America) will not be a grocery hauler. Land Rover proved with the new Range Rover that a vehicle with Unibody and independent suspension can be a very capable off-road vehicle if it is designed right and can also be an acceptable on road vehicle for the large percentage of people who don't go off-road. The LR3 will be body on frame and very robust to handle off-roading.

rsholland

I'm with Chuck on this. BTW, the IFS/IRS-equipped Touareg won 4-Wheel & Off-Roads's 4-Wheeler of the Year award. Those guys aren't a bunch of pansies, and have historically hated anything that didn't have solid axles. Even they've come around.

Bob

ateixeira

Fuel efficiency keeps those off my list, but I do think they look cool. I liked the old ones when they first came out, very trendy in my 'burbs.

-juice

[Deleted User]

If the new Discovery's rear cargo area is below the axle, as Bob mentioned, I guarantee I would rip off the bumper and exhaust system the first trip out. The approach angle looks good, but the departure angle looks a little scary. I can see people leaving important parts behind on the trail.

(off topic) That reminds me of a Jeeping trip in Moab a couple of years back, when the MB G500s were still only a European option. Someone paid a good deal of money to import two of them into the U.S. and promptly took them to Moab, Utah, where we met on the trail. I came across the pair as they were trying to drop down a 3-foot rock ledge, and spent the better part of 45 minutes propping rocks under the tires and whatever else they could do to prevent scraping their bumpers or undercarriage.

My wife and I watched a little amused from our Wrangler, and then, without stopping, dropped off the 4-foot ledge right next to them, scrapping the whole way, totally unconcerned about a little noise. We smiled and waved them goodbye. (/offtopic)

I'm not a universal uni-body and naysayer for offroading, but I will wait a bit to see how things fair. Keep in mind that reviewers only see a new vehicle. They don't see one that has been through long-term use that has involved twisting, tilting, screeching offroad use.

Independent suspension has positives and negatives offroad. There are many, many times you want the vehicle to tilt away from an object, like when your trying to climb a rock taller than your lowest undercarriage component, which solid axles afford you. Other times you want to remain flat and stable, like independent allows.

Offroad use and on-road use typically require totally separate vehicle setups, and those trying to do both succeed well at neither. From a holistic perspective, I say focus on one or the other. From a marketing perspective, people like to think their SUVs are tough and trail ready, so help them think so while giving them a great, safe on-road ride.

-Ty

rsholland

You misunderstood. I was referring to the Rover *car* in that post, not the Land Rover SUV. My comments on the Land Rover were in a different post.

Bob

rsholland

Here are the results as of day 4:

http://www.challengedriving.com/04day/pdf/day4standings.pdf

BMW X3s are currently in 1st and second place as of day 4. Forester XT is in 3rd place. STi in 4th place and Baja turbo in 5th place.

Bob

rsholland

http://www.usautonews.com/

lucien2

I have 4 OEM 15" steels mounted and balanced with 4 Michelin L-81 medium compound gravel tires, with about 70% tread left. I bought the tires from a rally team and they had 4 stages on them at that time. I have only run 1 rallycross on them since then. I've got about $400 in the set but if you want them for Franken L I'll sell them to you for $100. Just a thought.

ateixeira

You know what? The LR3 reminds me a bit of the new Nissan Pathfinder, or more specifically the Dunehawk concept that preceeded it.

By that I mean the blockiness, the bold squared off design. I like it. It's very unique. The rear is asymmetrical and bold. I bet space utilization is great with the longer wheelbase.

That V6 block started life as a Duratec, I believe. Mazda adds S-VT for 20 more HP than Ford, but Jaguar goes even further. I think those engines will serve better than the ancient V8s used now. Aren't those 1950s Buick designs?

-juice

[Deleted User]

Ah, got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

rsholland

The old LR V8s came from the '61 Buick Skylark/Olds F-85/Pontiac Tempest. It started life as a 215 cu in alloy V8.

Bob