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Comments
Interior is decent for GM, too much plood though.
3800 as a base engine? That's overkill for what will be a fleet car mostly. The Century has a 3.1l, something like that. 4 speed auto in a brand new car is a mistake.
-juice
Face it, crash tests were lousy, this van was unsafe, so they gave it a big beak for more crumple space. Everything else about it is just hoopla.
Inside isn't bad but it's still too narrow.
No side curtains, the way the seats fold is wasteful of space, decent engine from the Malibu will feel overwhelemed here, still a 4 speed auto.
A miss in almost every category.
-juice
Interior not bad for a truck, but look at how much better the F-150 looks.
Bed has no factory sprayed in liner, a mistake IMO.
Still, size matters in this segment so it'll sell well.
-juice
No, even they don't have tastes that bad.
Nothing of substance here excpet DOD, which is a scary given GM's previous experience.
The Envoy is already unreliable, you want to be the first to try this one? Scary.
-juice
Greg
I wonder how much smaller it'll get, though, Santa Fe was already compact IMO.
Blind spots would be one concern.
The interior looks like the Highlander's, but actually a little better designed.
Cool folding front seat. Subaru should copy that.
Prices seem to overlap with the Santa Fe, a lot. That 2.7l produces very poor specific output, but maybe it'll at least be lighter than the old 2.7l SF so it could be peppy.
I think the big question is weight. If it's heavy, it won't be any fun or efficient. Can the Koreans be efficient in terms of weight? That seems to be the one area they have not yet tackled.
It's gonna go head to head with the Forester X/XS.
-juice
-juice
Still, should be competitive. Volvo platform can't hurt.
CVT or SIX (!) speed auto, plus Volvo's Haldex AWD, which I liked in the S60/S80.
Engine is the big disappointment, this is bigger than the Mazda6 yet makes 20 fewer HP.
This could be among the better rental cars you'll sample, though.
-juice
-juice
Cabin does look better. Orange instruments are replaced by more civilized green lighting. Steering wheels still says "Pontiac".
250 hp matches the Legacy. Wonder if that was a coincidence?
Still needs AWD to cure that pretty bad torque steer I felt.
-juice
Interior is still plasticky, Nissan is hit or miss here.
Outside, the bed is awesome, now you see where the Dakota failed.
HP figures at 250+ with 270 lb-ft for the 4.0l VQ, that's great. 5 speed auto, 6 speed manual. Nissan is getting the powertrains down pat, same with Titan.
The next Baja had better be much, much better.
-juice
Look again at the Frontier - the GM van got none of those sustantial improvements: side curtain air bags, more gear ratios in tranny, substantial HP boost, substantial torque boost, etc.
Bold prediction: GM's vans will finish near last place in every comparo they're in.
-juice
I gotta say, the rear seat is decent compared to a TSX or Mazda6, but look at that Altima and it appears to have an extra foot or so back there.
Still, overall this is a knock out and it might be my next vehicle. Let's see where prices fall, and what the 7 seater looks like.
Subaru scored here, though, like Nissan did with the Frontier. You have real upgrades like more power, better trannys, Sportshift, side curtains, etc. It has all the basic ingredients.
-juice
I hope the strucure is stiffer, the last one had all the stiffness of a wet noodle.
-juice
Yoda made nice improvements, this should stay competitive. The Taco was a bit too basic looking, this looks more substantial. They're all growing out of the Baja segment, so Subaru may be the only small pickup left if this keeps up.
I don't like the tiny back seat or the extra long shifter, and the interior isn't best in class, but it's OK.
That's a nice V6 and TRD is really offering a lot of factory-backed options, you gotta respect that.
-juice
Dakota, Tacoma, Frontier, Tucson, and even Outback are all trucks and they stole the show!
-juice
But that was just the style maybe that was the reasoning they wanted you to believe it came pre dented.It has too much rolls and folds for my liking.
Cheers Pat.
Subaru's showings were pretty lame. No 05 Legacy/Outback (not expecting it). Only one I hadn't seen was the Baja turbo. STI drew a lot of attention (the Baja didn't). Not even a WRX wagon. To be honest, the Legacy design really is starting to look a little dated up against the newer designs.
The 05 Chrysler minivan folding mid-seat is pretty cool. The seat really is pretty easy to use. And ground clearance is still pretty good. They moved the exhaust near the door sill to accomodate the seat storage. Funny thing is that nobody was looking at the Chrysler. The outside looks the same. It looks like Chrysler's really going to have to market that feature if they expect any new buyers.
The Ford Freestyle/500 was also being shown. I was pretty impressed. Both are nice looking - too big for my tastes, but definitely one of Fords better efforts as of late. The Freestyle certainly makes a lot more sense for most people than the hulking SUVs they currently buy.
Lots of interest in the hybrids at the Toyota and Honda displays. The Prius is a nice vehicle.
The new Scion's were drawing a lot of attention. Frankly, I was not impressed. The xA is a nice hatchback, but the xB is just plain ugly. Mini's next door were still drawing a lot of attention. Now that is a cool looking car. And fun to drive.
Ahhh....GM. Chevy was showing the small SUV Equinox - better looking than the Saturn Vue, but stuck with the old 3800 pushrod six. The Hummer SUT was being shown - no comment. Enough has been said about the Hummer. I just can't get into the new Cadillac design. The interiors are pretty nice - I just can't deal with the odd shapes of the exterior. No Saabaru :-( I was really curious to see it.
Something I discovered when sitting in the Mazda 3. The console design interfers with where my right knee rests. Seems like a lot of new designs have made the console wider in a V shape that I find uncomfortable. Cars like the WRX and my P5 don't have that problem. Funny how new designs do not always equal better. I would certainly prefer the much cheaper Mazda 3 to the Volvo S40/V40. I don't see the price justification for the Volvo, given the 2.3 4 cylinder in the Mazda.
All and all - a fun day at the auto show.
Eric
This would be a stumbling block for a lot of people.
Cheers Pat.
Chrysler invested a pretty penny to create those seats, so you can bet they'll advertise them heavily. Everyone and their mother will know about them.
I liked the Freestyle, too. Consider it's built on a Volvo P2 platform (S80), too. It's very well packaged. At the Philly Auto Show I actually managed to sneak inside. 3rd row space is much better than the Cadillac SRX, despite it being 2" shorter in length and wheelbase, so packaging is impressive.
Equinox actually gets an even lamer 3400 pushrod six. Worse, it's not even the new and improved design from the Malibu.
Volvo V50's main advantage over the Mazda3 5 door is the cargo area - it's probably 4 times as big. At least in usefull space.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
Legacy does this too. No more quick/cheap WRX 6CD changer swaps.
Aftermarket will offer some choices, but they'll be fewer of them and probably cost more.
-juice
Juice and Eric - Thanks for all the reviews!
This probably isn't news anymore but I haven't read it anywhere yet. The STi is now available through the IMBA Subaru VIP Partners program. That means all models are available. I sure hope the new GT Wagon is when it arrives. ;-)
-Ian
Greg
Chrysler Folding Seats - the first comment I saw on them from someone minivan shopping was posted here this week. He felt they were a nice thought but pretty useless for most folks. HUH??? The Chrysler focus group people must be ripping their hair out with that comment.
Taurus had a custom-sized radio, the aftermarket still came up with plug-and-play solutions. Thing is, Legacy is a much smaller segment, we'll see who offers what.
I disagree about the seats - it's the only van that can give you all that space without having to remove and store the seats. You can haul a 4'x8' sheet of plywood completely spontaneously.
-juice
Greg
Eric
Jon
But the middle captain's chairs have baby/kids seats attached, and do become a bigger deal to move. I took them out of the Ody once, out of the Ford two or three times, out of the Dodge twice (?). I might have done it more often if they dropped into the floor, but opening up the rear for large items was the big win for me.
Steve
I'm impressed by the pace of improvement in the minivan segment, in all honesty they are way ahead of any other segment in terms of innovation.
I would have a child seat belted down, but the other child is in a booster so that's a cinch to remove.
-juice
Cool. How long before you think this makes it onto a parts supplier's accessory list?
-juice
Cheers Pat.
Greg
Greg: no, it would not make or break the deal. The Grand Caravan's reliability would still be a bigger concern to me than the seats not folding in the other vans.
However, it's nice to see them push the envelope, because others will undoubtedly try to match them and come up with other unique features.
I still say the minivan segment has been the most innovative in the last 5 years or so. The image problem they have in the eyes of some consumers has forced them to innovate at a rather rapid pace.
-juice
Pete.
Re: the new Mazdas. Yesterday when my Outback was in the shop, I got a Mazda 6 as a rental. All-in-all, it seemed like a decent car, but I downright HATED the center console. First of all everything seemed hard to read- the fact that it was all integrated into one seamless panel made it hard to distinguish controls for the stereo from the ones for the climate control. I'm sure you'd get used to it over time, but that was my first impression. Also, I couldn't read the labels on the controls that were toward the bottom of the console- too low for my line of sight. And I did think about the "what if I wanted to upgrade the stereo" issue.
The one thing that I really liked was the power of the windshield washer- wow! It didn't just squirt like most of them; it really sprayed a lot of cleaning fluid. Nice.
On to the vans: We've got an '00 Odyssey which, with 2 kids, has been fantastic. We roll with the child seats in the center row and have rarely needed to remove them. Personally, I wouldn't even consider switching to a fold-away center configuration if it compromised passenger comfort. Compare the Ody's center row captain's chairs to the fold-away 3rd row seat and see what I mean- I wouldn't want to be stuck back there on a long trip. Honda should definitely think about splitting that 3rd row seat for a bit of versatility, though (if they haven't already).
BTW: I think it's funny that Ford is acting like they invented the "magic seat" in their Mr. Radio Mechanic Guy tv spots.
Beach Wagon = New England Station Wagon.
Talk about safety issues!
I do wish Subaru would copy the latch in the cargo area that folds the rear seats, though.
I think the original Odyssey, with 4 hinged doors, had the first front facing disappearing seat. Is that right?
-juice
I've heard rumors that they may go back to all hinged doors in the future. From what I understand, Honda Japan offers both: the original smaller US style (don't know what it's called there) and the current US style which I believe is called the Lagreat.
I'm not sure if the US is ready for the tall, upright 7 seaters that are popular in Japan. Mazda's concept at NAIAS didn't get much of a response.
But...they are cheaper and smaller than minivans. We should just call them "vans" now that they've gotten so big. Only the MPV and Sedona are mini nowadays.
-juice
The Japanese unit with the hinged doors is called the Odyssey and our Odyssey is called the LaGreat in Asia. To complicate things Honda also calls an ATV the Odyssey (as well as another called the Pilot).
-juice