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Comments
Was is the steering that won you over? I hear it's God like.
Mark: prolly some punk who dip clutch drops regularly and wanted Subaru to pay for it, in a frivolous suit. Subaru counter sues and wins based on merit. I bet someone ratted him out, or the 1/4 mile track workers new him by name.
Ha, he deserved it.
-juice
My opinions:
- I hate the STi's wing and hoodscoop. They're really obnoxious. The Evo's wing is more tolerable cosmetically and easier to see past in the rear-view mirror, and the ventilated hood suits me better in addition to the front-mounted intercooler being more functional.
- Evo does have equivalent rear seating room to the Legacy. Imprezas are smaller, a very 3-series like backseat. I don't have kids, but I do have more than one passenger in the car several times per week.
- Evo handles better than the STi. We've all read it, and I felt it on test drives. I find the Evo's ride quality to be fine, but I know it's fairly taut. The roads are pretty good here for a place that does see snow & ice. The Legacy GT needs a sport package option to hope to compete, or they could just not bother and instead rely on the STi for that type of consumer.
- The Evo's extremely quick ratio steering cannot be beaten. 2 turns lock-to-lock.
- The 2.5L subarus do have more power below 3k, but that is it. The Evo's power abruptly comes online at 3k, but there is a ton of it and it's there to redline. Coming from an M3 where nothing happened below 4k, this is fine by me. I have noticed that to totally stay out of the boost for best economy while smoothly putting around, you need to use less than 1/2 throttle and shift before 3k rpm. Anythng else and the twin scroll turbo comes on HARD.
- Evo's seats are my favorite. I'm 6' 160lb and fit, and the factory Recaros are deliciously snug. I can see how larger body types might favor the STi, and the Legacy's seats are mildly sporty midsize sedan fare for even more relaxed comfort.
- I wrenched on my '99 Impreza RS a lot and have kept fairly in tune with the Subaru community since selling it. Let's just say that I think the Evo is at least as reliable as the Subarus.
- Evo has the best brake feel and I don't mind one bit that you need to exert firm pedal pressure for maximum braking. I hate touchy, insensitive brakes.
- Five speeds are enough when you have this kind of power and 6th gear isn't expressly made for cruising. The Evo and STi both are at about 3k rpm at 70 mph, so to me the WRX's extra cog is just an annoyance. edit: I take that back. the STi's 6th gear is taller but not a great deal.
- The Legacy's interior is very nice. The Evo however is a clear step ahead of the STi, and plenty for me. Spartan, functional, and not at all cheap feeling or looking.
- I plan to do no modifications. Evo is the best stock car for me based on the above. Wait if I can figure out where to mount a cruise solenoid, I'm definitely doing it. :-)
I could talk about all three cars for hours, but I've covered the basics. Questions/comments?
~Colin
In any event, looking forward to hearing what it's like to live with the EVO. Enjoy!
BTW, did you trade your M3?
Bob
Well congratulations! I'm sure you did your HW and chose the best one for you.
Out of curiosity, just how close were the other two models in the running?
Interesting how you thought the EVO interior was above the STi. I recall reading the opposite.
Lastly, any more comments or impressions on the Leg GT? What else did you like/disklike about it? I'm assuming you tried only MT models.
Ken
Luck had nothing do with getting a test drive in the STi and Evo. I test drove a local owner's STi after being put in contact with him through the autocross community. For the Evo, I couldn't drive it until we had agreed on all terms and the contracts were printed, but not signed. Considering that each time I was in the Mitsubishi and Subaru dealers there were young men--probably unqualified buyers but who knows--wanting to test drive these cars I think this is a reasonable policy. I would hesistate a lot to buy a new Evo or STi with demo miles on it.
The car had 8 miles on it when I fired it up and no one working in the dealership that evening had ever so much as ridden in one. I drove it 40 miles over a good mix of bumper-to-bumper in the city, winding city roads, and some 70mph+ (heh, that cute little "plus") highway.
Ken, I could've truly been 100% happy with the Legacy GT but it appeals to different desires. These three cars each have their own strengths, and I really think the Legacy GT will be a great seller for Subaru with its combination of performance, price and quality.
One comment about it though is that some have been wondering if the power is underrated like the Forester XT. IMO, no. It clearly is not as powerful as the STi and feels about like the FXT. That is a trival point though because the engine is *stout*. It does not feel at all inadequate!
~c
Oh, congratulations Colin!!!
-Dave
If your kids are in to it, a pool is great. We have a large (13m by 6m) boomerang shaped (hey, we are Australian) salt water, solar heated, in-ground pool. Really, our place is more a big pool with a scruffy house attached. In summer, our kids routinely spend two or more hours per day in the pool. They also seem to have a constant stream of friends to play with.
The fitness benefits of kids swimming regularly are great (Tamsin often swims 75 laps (about 1000 metres) but so also is the relaxation. Our youngest has Asperger's Syndrome a milder form of Autism that means life is very stressful for him. Practically his life is filled with anxiety as he does not understand the communication rules that other people use intuitively and each human exchange must be worked through slowly. The availability of a relaxing pool (and the chance for a long thoughtful hot bath to follow) is a constant relief for him. So also is the bowl of fresh popcorn that follows every swim.
It's pretty good for us as well, as we like a swim in the morning and late at night. Our pool has an underwater light and I frequently drop into it at Midnight on hot nights just before bed. It's useful that no neighbours overlook the pool lest they be frightened by the sight of their naked neighbour doing laps.
One vital accessory for kids in a pool is a batch of pool toys, ideally these include things to dive for and to float upon. We have a range of Noodles, (Polystyrene foam sausage things) and a large blow up whale. The whale is particularly popular. A former toy was a pink Dino (like the Flintstones one) whose periodic circuits of the pool caused endless amusement to visitors who were surprised by a pink head drifting into vision.
That size pool takes about 20,000 imperial gallons of water. You don't want to be throwing that much water out regularly and hence water treatment is critical. In Australia, salt pools are common. These run a concentration of about 6000 parts per million of ordinary salt. The water is pumped through a conventional sand filter about 26" in diameter and then past a salt cell which consist of an anode and cathode separated by about 1/4 inch. One plate is a combination of very pricey metals and as the salt solution passes over them, the cell applies a high amperage charge, resulting in the salt separating into chlorine and sodium ions. The chlorine necessary to sanitize the pool is therefore generated continuously as the pool operates.
The chemical generation process tends to create an alkaline environment and hence must be stabilized by regular additions of hydrochloric acid (effectively household bleach). It takes about 1 cup per week. Occasionally I need to add some extra salt and very occasionally some other chemicals. Typically these are as simple as sodium bi-carbonate. I find it amusing that the complex pool chemistry operates on the same chemicals as your pantry and laundry stock.
The salt generated chlorine is less smelly and doses not irritate the eyes. The characteristic chlorine smell of most pools comes from chloramines that are avoided, in some way by the salt process.
The pool filter needs to be run daily to ensure that the water is regularly filtered and chlorinated. In the hot summer with lots of kids in and out of the pool, I run the filter for about ten hours per day, reducing to about four hours in winter.
Kids are the big killer on pool cleanliness. It's a simple fact of life that kids pee in pools. They also tend to be a bit grubby when they get in. That means that the active chlorine is rapidly reduced, killing off the sundry bugs carried into the water. The dead simple fix for this is to insist that all kids go to the toilet and have a quick shower before they swim. Conversely, the salt on their skin means they have to have a shower or bath after they get out lest they then leave salt crud on the computer keyboard or TV remote control.
Over the course of a year, you need to replace about 15% to 25% of the pool water. Some of that is used in backwashing the pool filter and some more to stabilize the level as winter rains overfill the pool. If that came from the town supply, it would increase the water bill substantially. Here in Melbourne, we have had a sustained dry spell for the past eight years and reservoir levels are very low. We have a 1000 gallon rain water tank draining quarter of the house roof that fills in a heavy downpour. With the water that falls on the pool itself, that means that a half-inch of rain can add about 1 1/2 inches to the pool. Melbourne's hot summer is punctuated by occasional storms so we usually add little water from the town supply.
We also have solar heating that covers about one third of our roof. The water is pumped through an array of dark (ours are black) tubes and soak up the suns rays. Water returns about nine degrees Fahrenheit hotter than it leaves the pool on even moderately sunny days. Most of the year, our pool is around 75 to 90 Fahrenheit.
One luxury is the Kreepy Krawly, a self-powered pool cleaner that wanders around the pool sides and bottom, sucking up all the dirt and leaves that fall in.
Typical maintenance for a well set up pool is about 2 minutes per day to clear the inlet filter of leaves, five minutes per week on checks and quarter to half an hour per month on backwashing and other checks. If you are moderately intelligent with basic high school chemistry and take some time to understand the rules, you do not need a pool expert. It is a simple industry with a purposely arcane language. For example, the chemicals will be rebranded as "Pool Stabilizer 100" when it is actually just industrial purity carb soda.
If the chemistry and filtering regime is well set up with fairly high chlorine levels (about 3ppm) there is minimal problems with algae or other bugs. The big catch with pool maintenance is to overspecify all the cleaning bits. If the theory says you need a 20 inch filter, get a 24 inch. If the pump spec says x, try 2x and so on. Overspecifying means lots of leeway for minor problems.
Cost probably runs out at about USD100 per year for chemicals, about USD300 for power for the pumps and about USD500 for equipment repairs and maintenance.
Hope that gives some ideas
Cheers
Graham
New rule - you can only date thin women! ;-)
As for the Legacy "sport" package, I think they left that for the STi. If you had kids maybe you'd lean toward the compliance the GT offers.
I prefer the STi interior but the EVO's is fine. I think these car mag editors are a whiny bunch!
-juice
Craig
Bob
it seriously only took me 45-60 minutes to change the deal from their original total (sticker plus that protection crap, minus my trade) to a number $5500 less.
could I have done even better? who knows. I'm happy!
~c
That's an interesting comment on the power rating of the GT engine. The FXT has been dynoed to show about 230-240HP. The GT is listed as 250HP. Would a 10-20HP difference be indistinguishable between the two? I guess the FXT also has shorter gearing that may also affect perception.
Also according to Subaru, the boost levels of each are 14.5, 13.5 and 11.6 psi, respectively.
So what color is the Evo?
Ken
Ken- "rice" white according to Colin's profile :-)
-Frank
Saw a new Outback, monotone beige, here at the beach. Looked nice on the street!
Been seeing a few of the 05s on the streets.
-juice
The pool is salt water. It has about 6,000ppm of salt which translates to about 500kg (say 1100 lbs) of salt dissolved in the water. It is certainly corrosie if it gets in contact with anything metallic but then so is chlorinated water.
All components in contact with the water are plastic or stainless steel. The pool itself is concrete with a pebbletex finish. It sounds odd, but there is no actual corrsion problem. Slat pools are not common in the USA but it is just one f those awareness things. One agent is listed below http://www.salchlorusa.com/index.html
Oddly, one of the things you have o keep track of is the calcium level in the water. Too low and the pool tends to leach the calcium from the concrete walls. Too high and it deposits a scale.
Swimming in a salt pool is luxury. You don't get stinging eyes and the water feels nicer. It also tends to not damage skin or hair blonde hair green. I guess its one of those things where Australian are experts on the finer details because of our lifestyle.
Cheers
Graham
it has a fricken carbon fibre wing. if the shoe fits... LOL
___
gearing could be factor in my perception of the various 2.5L turbos because they definitely are all different. it just seemed to me that the FXT and Legacy GT were pretty similar while the STi felt like it had more gromph.
ps, 19 psi here and it's all there from ~3200rpm thanks to one expensive turbocharger.
~c
Bob
Congrats on the purchase BTW.
Ed
Friends of ours have a salt water indoor pool (yes, she is a CEO of a HMO, he is a big wig accountant). But that is the only salt water pool that I have ever encountered. It is very rare here.
BTW, Hydrochloric acid (HCl) would not be what you would want to subject your clothing to. Sodium Hypochloride, IIRC, is household bleach (too lazy to run down stairs to check for sure...). I have heard that some skip the expensive pool store chemicals and just use Chlorox laundry products.
It is a big investment and will require some land mods, so we need to be sure before we act. I 'shocked' our little pool last night, and the temp is slowly rising (now in the mid 70's). In a day or so we will take our first dip.
Thanks again Brenda and Graham!
Steve
- inferior seats for medium build (better for larger bodies)
- awful wing & hood scoop
- less rear legroom
- while improved, interior is still behind Evo (everyone has an opinion!)
The Legacy was much closer to earning my dollars. It truly was a coin-toss with the Evo, but as I said appealing to different desires.
I'm uploading some pics now. No break in the rain here, so it's dirty.
~Colin
got rid of the dealer's decal and the LANCER badge:
~Colin
-Brian
Bob
-Brian
BTW, *if* there were a Legacy STi would you have gone that route?
Ken
CRaig
-Frank
It's a PDF about the STi's shift lever, which reportedly costs 3x as much as the 5-speed gearshift lever found on other Subies..
Bob
Interesting to see what's offered in other countries as "official" accessories. I believe the touch-screen NAV/DVD is standard in the 3.0 Outback, but is optional on all other Outbacks. Also, I see they offer a rear backup radar for backing up.
Bob
If there were a reasonably priced sport package I probably would buy the Legacy GT. It had enough power and I wouldn't want the price to get too high for a real STi-type trim level. I was going to spend less than $30,000. And heck, I was so close to buying the Legacy GT just as it sits.
Frank, no question that's a huge obnoxious wing.
~Colin
So, given your previous reservations about Subaru manual trannies, would the strengthened MT in the Legacy GT been okay?
Did you happen to try out the 5EAT on the Legacy GT by any chance?
Ken
I've felt for some time that the LA Show got the short end of the stick, because it was so close to the Detroit Show. Apparently their organizers felt the same way, so the show will be moved forward two months starting in 2007.
Also, naked (with no tape, etc. hiding the looks) next-generation M-Class & A-Class pics! Also, disguised S-Class pics.
Bob
~c
White looks good. My Miata is white, just be ready for pollen season. Also, don't ever touch it when it's wet or you'll get stripes of dirt and finger prints.
But what saves the EVO is that they haven't started using the hideous new "nose" that appears on other new Mitsus.
Bob: A-class looks a lot sharper now. More Japanese looking, wedgy, sorta.
M-class looks more macho, they dropped the droopy looking soft front end for a more blunt nose, looks less minivan and more SUV to me. Interesting that they'll have a LWB model, too.
-juice
Uh oh... those are fighting words..!
-juice
I know....
But he does have a point, though I'm not as big but I'm 6'5" @ 210lbs. so I feel his pain.
-juice
Bob (5'9", 208 lb, and who fits just fine)
Craig
Aw come on Brenda. Get down in the mud and wrestle with the guys.
Bob
Steve
What did it come with, any how? Is the new 10 year warranty only for the 2004s?
-juice
I'm leaning actually toward the Duramax Diesel Crewcab next year to replace the Trooper. We'll see how that comes about. Debate is always raging:
replace the SVX with E55amg or other Luxo/cruiser
or
replace the Trooper with a Diesel Excursion/Suburban(if they come out with one) or Duramax Crew Cab.
-mike