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Comments
I can tell you that in our Minnesota winter, the VSC+TRAC are a wonderful tool to have, even i mine is FWD. Mine is always driven hard and is given me 18.8 mpg. The services have been cheaper than my OB. Only dislike is that when I decided to install a hitch it was to expensive (almost $310), OEM. I didn't went aftermarket 'cause the Sienna rear is too low, and the OEM is the one that's aestetically more pleasant. But the dealership can install an oil and radiator cooler, nice if you have to tow.
Thing is, from a practical standpoint, the minivan makes much more sense than a Tribeca, if only for the inside space. This weekend we are going to camp, and even if we have a tent we're going to sleep inside the minivan (4 years daughter, wife and me). We're going to carry lots of stuff also.
So, if you wanna convince the wife on the Tribeca, don't go for the Hyundai with her, try just to let her forget about the two test drives, or do as maybe I will, bought the Subaru for me.
What will you drive in the winter Juice? On those snowy days, certainly not the miata...
-mike
It's Maryland for goodness sake - it snows what 10" a year? And when it does snow the state just shuts down.
The Sienna is bulky, but you still feel like it's a hot rod engine trying to bust out of it.
mike - I'll drive the Legacy if and when it snows. My wife works from home 2-3 days a week, and doesn't drive in to work when it snows anyway.
And yes, we have rather pathetic amounts of snow, especially lately. Our last real snow was several years ago.
I am requiring stability control, that's a pre-requisite, even if it means sacrificing other options.
-mike
He loves the van though. Almost daily, he will ask me, "Dada, will you explore the van with me for a while?" If I decline and suggest we do something else, he will negotiate: "How about we explore the van for just a little while and then we go clear brush?"
Hahha, that little pup cracks me up.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f138100/0
This wasn't so much Sienna vs. Tribeca as it was minivan vs. SUV, in a way. But I did compare my favorite van to my favorite SUV.
Lots of factors in favor of the van:
* $172 per year less on insurance
* 26 mpg highway (vs. 23 for 'beca on old EPA system)
* 20 gallon gas tank (vs. 16.9) for much more range
* more cargo capacity - 148.9 vs. 74.4
* more seating capacity - 8 vs. 5+2
* power sliding doors are a huge convenience
* middle seat much more comfy
* side curtain air bags protect 3rd row
* conversation mirror
* fold flat front passenger seat
* 6 CD/MP3 changer (Tribeca with cloth only has 1)
* costs about $2,000 less
* I paid cash, the 'beca would have required a loan
* plusher ride
We give up a few things:
* much better handling
* firmer seats (good for driver, but kids didn't like this)
* AWD
* fog lights
* leather wrapped steering wheel
* power passenger seat
* bigger wheels
* looks darn good, elegant and even luxurious
Subaru promised 10-15% better mileage, but that didn't happen. I was really counting on that. The gas tank is too small, so they should have given us a bigger tank or improved the mileage.
We set our hearts on cloth, and heated cloth seats were a big appeal for the Tribeca, and the 08 doesn't have them!
Even in leather, the gray interior we wanted it no longer perforated. I started thinking about getting a leftover 07 or a used 06. :mad:
And the price is only lower because they removed content. The loaded one runs $38,600 list, and was $36,800 back in 2006. Prices have gone up, not down.
I think I could have swayed the wife, but I was counting on these many things to improve, and they didn't. When we left that event Monday night the wife admired a Forester Limited that was parked there, and Lisa (SoA rep) mentioned it was coming next February. That's what got us thinking, Sienna now, Forester next year.
I was able to pay cash (9 years in a reliable Forester lets you save up that much!) so no payments. The wife's car will probably be worth close to $10k with the extras it has, and she has $12k saved up already. I'll chip in and we'll hopefully get a diesel 09 Forester XDI Limited, or whatever they call it. :shades:
The van is light blue metallic, gray interior. I got the power doors, 6CD (MP3 too), and of course every safety feature available (side air bag curtains, traction control, stability control, etc.).
So I'll wrap the steering wheel in leather, in fact I already ordered a Wheelskins. We'll get a 2nd NAV, and install a DVD player, voila, everyone's happy.
The van does play MP3s, so that's cool. It also has heated mirrors, which I didn't know. The brochure is wrong (!), package 3 includes a power driver's seat and that wasn't mentioned. It's also wrong about package 5 not having stability control, so you can get a movie player with cloth, but at $3 grand we passed. We'll do it aftermarket.
The van has a lot of things I didn't have on my '98 Forester. In hindsight, it seems like Subaru was at the tail end of their cost cutting days back then, and Subaru has also added a lot of content since then. So I could list 20 nice little surprises, but the Tribeca would have them all as well.
The van rides well. I won't say it handles well, but that's not the point. We plan on taking summer trips to the beach, and maybe a spring or fall trip to visit the in-laws in CT.
It will be hard to get used to the seating position, which is like sitting on top of a barstool, sky high. I'm used to an arms out, legs straight position. This is weird.
I can't think of anyone who has cross-compared vehicles in these two segments, or who has wrestled with this more than you. Still—and being the true Subaru fan that you are—they lost a sale...
As nice as the new Tribeca is—or any mid-size SUV, they're not a substitute for a minivan.
Bob
Juice let me down
Boooooo!
-mike
Me, I left the fold cause I needed towing.
You have left due to seating/storage capacity.
-mike
Here's a Forester review for you guys. Discuss amongst yourselves:
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2007/05/20/all_around_good_vehicle/
On the other hand, I can really appreciate your comments about the seats - the one gripe I had about the vehicle. The originals were very flat with no side support. I never found a sweet spot for driving position. We also had leather, so driving on winding roads I would slide around all over the place. So it was like sitting drunk on a barstool in an earth tremor. Surprised they never fixed that on Gen 2.
Nicholas
Gotta get used to sitting up on a bar stool.
Road trip this weekend, so it gets its first test.
Trip computer said 13.8 mpg average when I got it and has been creeping up to 16.6mpg so far. We've only taken 2 short trips so far. I hope that'll break 20 this weekend, even though the engine is still very green.
I grew up driving tractors, dump trucks, and vans, so I find the "barstool" position familiar and, in some ways, nostalgic. I also have a standing workstation at my job, with a "Humanscale Saddle Seat" as backup, so the stool position is second nature.
Congrats on the purchase - I think the Sienna is the only minivan on the market currently to offer a form of AWD (though it does not sound like you opted for that). I hope this van we have now will last us 3-4 years, then we will need to reassess. It would be nice if Subaru had a van in their lineup by then.
-mike
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/tribeca/tribeca2008.html
So probably a rare error on Spitz' site.
Congrats, btw!
Joe
I'm babying it during the break-in, though.
Oddly enough it's the quickest car I've ever owned. How's that for funny?
I remember reading about a kenny brown modified Ford windstar- I think they dropped a supercharger in it and a tuned suspension. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to drop a TRD supercharger on that engine and you'd have one of the quickest minivans in the world!
I guess you're back on the fence. Welcome back!
tom
Just got back from a weekend up at Lake George, towing the 33 behind the Armada was not bad at all. I managed to get 10mpg with the cruise set on 67-70mph and the AC cranking on the way up and back. Not bad considering the trailer weighs in at about 10,000 lbs.
-mike
My lone complaint is the radio reception, which is just terrible. It loses Mix 107.3 even before I cross the Bay Bridge! The Forester held that station a good 20 miles past the bridge. With static, 30. :mad:
The sheer amount of space spoils you quick. Every other car seems cramped now. Hope we don't get spoiled.
When I got it the trip computer said it was averaging 13.8 mpg, well that has skykrocketed all the way up to 23.1 mpg. I'm *very* happy about that, given mileage and range was a high priority. It keeps creeping up, too, and the engine is still very green.
Just as planned, the long range means I have only had to fill up once so far, and paid $2.99 for fuel. Here in Potomac gas in $3.35, but I won't have to fill up until we make it back to the beach, where once again we'll have abundant cheap gas. Sweet.
And while that includes a trip to the ocean, I had a Tribeca for nearly a week last year and followed the same driving patterns, and that yeilded just 20.4 mpg, and that was on premium fuel.
So fuel costs look like they will meet my hopes.
Power Sliding Doors = Gift from God.
Sorry, had to get religious to describe how useful those are. Try carrying two sleeping kids out of a van at midnight, you'll understand.
Jenson 12.1" DVD player is sweet. :shades:
The kids do complain about the headphone hurting after 2 hours or so, but it also plays on an FM station you can program. I think it also has a built-in speaker but I have yet to explore that.
Drove a Sedona tonight, finally, and I'm happy to say, no regrets. While it is close, an admirable effort and value, it is simply not a match for the Sienna.
That post to soon follow...
For some reason I feel a soft spot for Kia, perhaps because they now make competent cars, yet people still dismiss them because of an inconsistent path. Time to look again?
Right away, the vans seem smaller. More narrow, not as tall, to be specific. While it looks very similar on the surface, a closer look reveals some cheaper plastics and fit-and-finish which is not quite up to Toyota standards.
To be specific, the vinyl on the parts of the seat that aren't leather are shiny and don't match the leather. The plood is unconvincing. You find some hard plastics that look shiny and feel cheap.
Also, the stereo options are strange. This was a loaded up EX model, yet it only has one single CD slot. You have to get the movie player to get a 6CD.
The power window for the driver has auto down, but no auto up like Toyota's does.
On the plus side, content is....wow! Heated leather seats. Dual power sliding doors and a power tailgate to boot. The power seat controls aped from a Benz, with 2 memory positions. A moonroof. It's a long, impressive list, and the price tag was similar to my cloth Sienna LE, with only the 2 power doors and a 6CD changer.
Still, it felt less...substantial.
Handling was actually a tad better, with an appropriately stiffer ride. It was closer to the Odyssey than the Sienna's soft, muted cruising.
The engine felt torquey and chirped the tires even while in motion, but the 3.8l didn't feel as refined. I felt some torque steer, too. Passing was effortless, though gas mileage on the trip computer was registering a scary 6-7 mpg. I'm sure that would improve with time, but it left doubt that it would match the efficient mills from Honda and Toyota.
Content gets an A+. If you are dead-set on getting all the gadgets you can for a certain price point, look no further. The engine and suspension don't dissapoint.
The common concerns remain, though. Depreciation. Fuel efficiency. Longevity. It just didn't feel quite as solid as Toyota's van did. Strip away the gizmos and gadgets and at its core, the Sedona is a competent van, but not quite up to par with the segment leaders.
Oddly enough, I think a basic model without all the gadgets almost makes more sense. I priced a basic Hyundai Entourage (which felt juuuust a little nicer than the Kia BTW) for $19.8k. At that price point, nothing disappoints. The minor nit picks I have melt away, and it fully meets the expectations of anyone shopping in the sub $20k price range.
So I recommend these vans as a budget buy. Just don't be tempted by too many options, because at those higher price levels an Odyssey or Sienna makes more sense.
I've heard the OE hitch is supposed to tuck away nicely compared to aftermarket, but I really haven't done enough research yet.
I'm trying to get motivated to do some yard work I've sort of been putting off for quite a while, and I'd need a trailer to do it.
Mark
We just finished a new deck. Replaced most of the old one, only used a couple of footings and beams, and even then they re-hanged most of those.
Went with Trex Accents, it's the brown stuff with a wood grain pattern. Should be low-maintenance (we have lots of trees and shade/moisture). The fencing is all PVC.
Now I feel like cleaning up the rest of the yard, and to do that I'd need a hitch. We have some wood that rotted and isn't suitable to burn in the fire place. It'll be a big project so I may even wait until next Spring, we'll see.
The harness is another $35, but it's plug-n-play.
The OE Toyota hitch with wiring (sold seperately) is just over $300, so that's a bit pricey. Subaru's was less and was sold with the harness.
The Toyota hitch will likely be the most expensive, but will probably be the best engineered. Plus it'll have a Toyota warranty.
Bob
If the OE one is better in that regard I'll happily pay the extra for it.
-mike
That's actually better than my Miata got last time it took the same trip! Better than the Forester usually did, too. I don't think a Tribeca would even come close. In fact when we took the same trip 2 years ago in one we got 20.4 mpg overall, and about 25 on the highway stretches.
In the van, overall for the tank was 25.1 with all the city driving (25.5 per the slightly optimistic trip computer), tied with my lifetime average for the Forester.
City mileage usually dips down to 22-23 mpg or so, but this thing is very happy on the open highway. Coming back, I had the average up to 31.3 mpg all the way across the Bay Bridge. Bob would be familiar with the route - 26 to 113, to 404, to 50 east. Speeds of 50-65 or so.
Once I was over the bridge speeds pick up, the limit is 65 and people are flying, so I was closer to 75. That's when the mileage dipped a bit.
The A/C was on the entire time, too!
The secret is gearing. At 65mph the engine is humming along at less than 2000rpm.
With a 21 gallon gas tank that means range in the 500+ mile neighborhood. Subaru needs to use bigger fuel tanks (though I've said that all along).
p.s. That's awesome mileage, juice!
-mike
This product looks interesting.
Pulstar Plugs
With 20k miles on my current set of plugs and a per plug price of $25 I'll wait on these a bit.
Alan
98 OBW Ltd ~135,000 miles
I'm pretty sure that the class II hitch (which is what the OB is rated for) is what is listed for the OB, or at least what it has been. The 1 1/4" reciever does the job for most light weight towing. One other thing as a suggestion: get a transmission cooler to help keep everything smoothly if you plan to tow. Right now I am using my hitch primarily for this bike rack:
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
Mark
Think about it, either the fuel/air mix ignites or it doesn't.
Some of the graphics have the "pulse" flash outside of the cylinder, not too realistic!
Even if the gas mileage is improved by their guestimates, it would take a long time to recover the $100 cost. Unless they know something about future gas prices :surprise:
Alan
98 OBW Ltd pobody's nerfect
Quite the cycle! (Looks like a darn comfy seat, too!)
I can usually beat the EPA numbers, though, on the Forester too.
got it as rental
it's so tipsy, it's scary
will go to rental agency tomorrow, will try to exchange it for smth else
Did I mention I hate it?
jeffmc, "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" #19828, 12 Jul 2007 8:20 pm
(That's an R.E.M. reference in this post title, FWIW.
Is is the brand new square design, or the older curvy one?