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To them, what could be cooler than exploding toilets?
I like the myths involving cars, like the Taurus that looked like a golf ball, or the one where they drove through a rotten fruit stand (hilarious visuals).
Funny thing is - IT WORKED!
That test failed, IIRC the mileage dropped a tad.
But then they went a step further, looked at the dimples on golf balls. They decided to test a car with similar dimples.
They used clay, and put the same amount of clay inside the control car, so that the weight was the same.
Surprisingly, it worked. The dimpled car had better aerodynamic properties and used less fuel.
So Subaru, work on Direct Injection, CVTs, and .... dimpled panels!
Subaru also said they are testing waters to see which of their models should be a Hybrid in 2012, and welcome customer feedback.
Aside: VW and AUDI made big pitches for their TDI diesels. But as soon as folks started asking about TDI with AWD, both said "welllll, we have them in Germany but don't think the USA would be a good market for them". Sigh....same old tired VW refrain.
BTW, Nissan, Land Rover and Suzuki were AWOL at this show.
For the hybrids - they should go with the 2 volume cars - Outback and Forester.
The Learning Channel
The Discovery Channel
Pick the right show, and the kids can actually learn something.
Sunday, Subaru was by far the most popular Mfr exhibit on the floor. Helping them was an autograph signing by one of the Portland Trail Blazer players. The line practically wrapped around half of the Subaru exhibit before ending inside the exhibit.
Also chatted with Honda and several other Mfr's and discovered, aside from Subaru and VW/AUDI, the other "auto AWD" systems at the show could only send a max of 50% power to the rear wheels. Honda argued that sending 100% power to the rear wheels made no sense in that it might cause car to fishtail and it was better for all the wheels to be spinning anyway. :surprise:
Also looked closely at Subaru competitor interiors and found there really didn't seem to be all that much improvement in theirs over Subaru's. One advantage Honda had was a woven headliner.
This year's show was just "okay," nothing special.
Bob
Kurt - BMW and Mercedes did make it to the DC show. Attendance was strong, not as crowded on a weekend as it was 2 years ago, but there was snow on the ground.
I noted lots of cost cutting - we were all over the Outback for not having break-away mirrors, but we found that the Camry and Fusion have the same issue, so it seems to be a trend, unfortunately.
What made the biggest impression on me was STICKER SHOCK, yikes. They had a GMC Terrain that stickered at $38 grand! A Traverse for $49 grand. Even the AWD Fusion was $36 grand with the bigger of two V6s that are offered. :surprise:
I focused on competitors for the Legacy/Outback and Forester, plus the WRX. I left with the impression that Subaru has really held the line on pricing, and right now offers arguably the best value, particularly comparing MSRP (I'm sure those Fords and Chevys need *hefty* discounts to sell).
We looked at the MazdaSpeed3, WRX, and GTI, and compared those as well. The Speed3 has a padded dash, but that's about it. The GTI is nicer inside than the other two, but it was also $28 grand with cloth seats. The GTI is much nicer inside than the Tiguan, which is weird because the Tiguan is more expensive. The Speed3 was $24 grand IIRC, so a good value if you want FWD.
Subaru could apply some of the Forester upgrades to the WRX. The Forester's interior is a little nicer (the opposite of VW, where the cute-ute is not as nice).
Back to prices, the Mazda CX9 is a relative bargain compared to its peers. The one I sat in was priced $18 grand lower than the loaded Traverse at the Chevy booth. Too bad Mazda has been on a rampant cost-cutting run (also affecting the CX7). They just seem one step behind everyone in the interior materials.
Interesting show. The trend I noted is that Chevy and Ford are really pushing new features and content, with much higher sticker pricing. Let's see if that strategy works, I'm sure the margins on those items are very good, question is will buyers come.
http://www.phillyautoshow.com/showfloor.asp
Bob
If they had the gullwing concept I'll cry.
Bob
About 10 years ago, my husband and I were considering buying a Subaru, but chose a Nissan Maxima instead. That Max now has 119,000 miles on it, and I dearly love it still - but some ^&*(^ backed into it in a parking lot the other day and smashed in the trunk. Hit and run, of course.
That propelled us to start thinking maybe we should look for a new car now instead of putting $1,000 or whatever into fixing this boo-boo. Went to the D.C. auto-show on Sunday afternoon and looked at the Forester, the Outback, and the Legacy sedan, and liked them all very much.
We are young retireds, no kids, two dogs, spend half the year in D.C. area, half the year in the Outer Banks. We need cargo space more than people space.
How easy is it to get just the car you want? Seems like there are a lot of options, so every car can be very individualized, but perhaps difficult to find exactly what you want on a dealer's lot.
Also , looking at the Subaru site, it looks like some good safety options are "coming soon." Anyone know what "soon" means for things like their traction control system and so forth?
Any recommendations of Northern Virginia dealers, from those of you in the know?
So, which would be the recommendation of choice, the Forester or the Outback? In the Forester, is it worth it to go for the turbo over the standard engine?
Do people like the CVT transmission in the Outback? It's appealing that even with its larger size, it gets better mileage than the Forester does.
Both are pretty similar on back roads (Forester is shorter and tighter turn radius, Outback offers more stability over speed bumps, etc.).
Outback has better headliner and nicer interior trim. Forester has folding outside mirrors.
wrt X, XT forester has a number of hidden extras (liquid filled motor mounts, a bit more sound insulation, nicer door trim and headliner). X proved a bit more touchy at stoplights, but is weak on passing power and on hills. XT has no such trouble (about 3 seconds faster from 0 - 60, hills don't bother it). XT requires premium gas and gets 2 mpg less than X.
Outback 3.6 has different drive train from the other Outbacks (additional center differential, etc.). Base and middle Outback systems are very similar to those used in the Foresters.
Probably best to drive the different models (at least twice, if possible) and see which best fits your needs.
If you live in winter climates, the Forester's stock Yoko tires are not that good. The Outbacks apparently have Conti rubber for 2010 and appears to do well in winter testing.
I say OB over Forester. It's a lot of very competent car for the money, and the pooches will appreciate the extra room for that haul to OBX
Does the OB 3.6 also take premium gas?
I'm a long-time Forester fan, we've owned 2, and currently have a 2009 Forester X Limited (non-turbo).
Funny thing is we were at the DC Auto Show on Sunday as well, coincidence eh? Bob and Frank were there as well, so we may have crossed paths.
I will admit, a little bit reluctantly, that the new Outback really impressed me. It was about $1500 more for a Limited, but you get a USB music input, nicer materials, and better gas mileage. Interior ambience is one price class above the Forester's.
I would miss the huge moonroof on the Forester, and my PZEV model has 175hp plus it's lighter, so I bet it's a tad quicker. And it costs less, and residual values are a tiny bit better as well.
We walked the auto show floor and checked out competitors. A lot of other models gave me sticker shock - I saw an Equinox for nearly $40 grand. Ouch. Plus I'd say the Forester's interior is a little bit nicer (for $10 grand less).
So with lower pricing the Subarus are really playing a value card, and that's been working quite well for them (just look at recent sales - way up).
Both are IIHS Top Safety Picks. Good luck, it's a tough choice!
Don't know if you remember me; I posted a little bit on the Subaru forum about 10 years ago, when we were shopping between Maxima/Passat/Outback at that time.
We still have the Max we bought back then, but recently some fool slammed into it while it was parked. Since we have a high deductible on our insurance, we would end up out of pocket paying for most of the repairs. It's worth maybe $4,000 or so if I'm lucky. So, good idea to pay $1,000 for repairs, and get another year or two out of it, or call it a day and buy something new?
We were at the car show late in the day on Sunday. Looked most seriously at the VW Jettasportwagen, the Subarus, and had a glance at the Equinox. Although I've been a long-time fan of Nissans, I don't like their current Maxima for what we want, the Murano feels too big. The Rogue might work but doesn't seem very exciting.
Hubby wanted a Subaru last time around, so this time might be his turn to pick.
Niether are what I would consider 'fast' but certainly 'adequate'.
I do like the looks of the Forrester better than the new OB- the new OB almost looks minivan-ish. But it is a very nice car.
tom
I even remember reading a review you wrote about a Subaru and you mentioned how nice/helpful the community was in your search. I really appreciated that, it was a very classy thing to do. :shades:
I sat in the TDI Jetta wagon, is that the same one you saw? With the new front end?
I really liked it. It's ju-uuuust a tad too small for me. I fit, but there's no room to spare in that back seat. IIRC it had a giant moonroof, which I liked (may have been the Tiguan, but I'm pretty sure it was one of the VWs). Nice interior materials, and not too expensive, either, I think it was $28k? Cloth, though.
I felt some sticker shock with the Equinox. My, oh my. $38 grand? For that I want a Tribeca/Murano. At below $30k it offers a lot of space for the price, but loaded up it makes little sense to me. Both engines have Direct Injection but it's a heavy vehicle so performance is only about average.
Rogue is a bit too small inside. They really sacrificed space and visibility for the styling.
If you like its styling, check out the new Hyundai Tucson (it was at the show, did you see it?). It looks similar, but they did a better job packaging the inside. It's roomier than the Rogue, I felt.
As for Forester vs. Outback, pick Forester for the city (smaller, tighter turns) and Outback for the highway (long wheelbase, quiet).
Yup, pretty much. We bought the Maxima in July of 2000. I was researching it for a few months before that.
That's nice that you even remember the review I wrote about the Sub. crew! It was very true, you guys were all very helpful and nice and objective. And still are, obviously.
I don't know enough about VW to say anything about the "new" front-end, but I guess so. I just didn't like the interior very much of the Sportwagen. Very limited up-front storage space, cold, hard angles, the gray color was depressing - eh, I just couldn't see myself driving that for the next 10 years. Plus, my fair-skinned husband absolutely hated that giant moon-roof. He does not like a lot of sun coming in. The only time I get to open the roof on the Max is when he's not with me.
Which is why I drive my Z for fun, but that's a different story, eh?
I did see the Tucson, sat in it for about a minute. Seemed nice enough.
We didn't have much time at the show, had to hustle over in the late afternoon, so we only had about two hours total, which wasn't enough time to look at things in depth. We definitely spent the most time with the VWs (I had thought I would love the Jetta, but didn't. I did like the Passat wagon, though.), and then the Subarus, which both of us liked a lot. The salesman took our info to send the $250 coupon by e-mail, so that's a plus if we buy soon.
After that it was a matter of seeing other things we were interested in as quickly as possible just to get a first impression, looking at comfort, space, mileage and price. Honda CR-V was/is a possibility, but I didn't fall in love with it. Really liked the Volvo C30, but probably won't buy a coupe.
Not really shopping for a large sedan, but loved the Buick LaCrosse! Kind of a Midwestern cruiser, it's not the car I'd want around here, but very impressed with it.
Of the Subarus, thanks for the analysis of Forester vs. Outback. Most of our driving is around town, some on the highways, so that would probably nudge me toward the Forester. I've got two dogs and am hoping to compete with one of them in agility and obedience, so need enough space to haul his stuff around, but we don't need much people space. The sales guy was showing us how the back seats recline and how comfy they are and all, and finally I had to tell him "Well, we haul dogs more than people, don't know if they'll appreciate that feature all that much."
He laughed. And then decided maybe he better sell me on some of the other fine points of the car.
I bought mine at Fitzmall in No. Bethesda and can recommend them. She got hers at Heritage in Owings Mills and they are also recommended.
I cross-shopped the Outback against the Jetta Sportwagen TDI, but in March 09, the Sportwagen TDI was in short supply and significantly more money than the Outback SE.
http://media.subaru.com/index.php?s=43&item=144
Canada set record sales too. Outback up by 382.9 percent! Wow!
http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?ArticleID=6679&WebPageID=4998&WebSiteID=282
Bob
Depends on the size of the pooch, our labs appreciate the extra headroom in the Forester while a smaller breed would probably prefer the additional floor space that the Outback offers.
-Frank
Back to the moonroof.... I absolutely love the glass. I thought it might let too much light in, but honestly, with the tinted glass in the back, it makes the whole space seem much more open and I have yet to have a problem with the light overhead. I guess I will find out for sure this summer! Also, I love being able to look up to check on overhead loads (which I carry regularly) rather than trying to toy with the side mirrors or stopping to check the load.
I really wish they would have carried the monster moonroof into the new Outback generation.
If dogs are transported often, I recommend getting some garage mat material and cutting it to fit the rear cargo space with seats folded down. Then, (if you don't have the moonroof) you can install a pet separator further forward to give the dogs more room without damaging the seat backs over the long term.... perhaps even access to the back door windows!
My dog has yet to ride in the '10 Forester; the children are hard enough on it!
My dogs are mini poodles, one 12", and one oversize at 16 1/2". Technically that makes him a "Klein" poodle by European standards, or a very, very small standard by U.S. regulations.
If I'm carting them around any distance, they will both be in crates, for safety reasons, not loose in the car. So I need to make sure that whatever I buy will fit two dog crates, either side by side or back to back.
Passat is a more family-friendly size.
Market share up to 2.2 percent, up from 1.9 percent last January.
Bob
Folks were all over the vehicles and talking with the sales reps. Appeared to be a lot of interest.
Goes to show - folks like us care a heck of a lot more about this than the general public.
Funny thing is Toyota stories are headline news now. I haven't seen a news cast in a week that hasn't said something about it.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=29638883&postcount=27
Bob