Subaru Crew Cafe

robr2

Just returned from my annual week long opportunity to hobnob with my fellow wizards in the field of microelectronics failure analysis, this time in Phoenix. Just imagine 900+ geeks all under one roof! Amazing and terrible, all at the same time.... Characters from "The Big Bang Theory" brought to life.

You guys must have to beat the ladies away with your slide rules and graphing calculators...

fibber2

Na, the women in this field are just as messed up as we men are. Now granted there are fewer of them, but we have a good time laughing at ourselves.

Comments abound, such as "oh, that's just Joe being Joe. Must have skipped his meds this morning".

xwesx

Lift off the brake at a stoplight, and you are treated to a stuttering clutch experience until you get to about 5 mph.

That was exactly my experience with the Fiesta I rented in Pittsburgh this last May. As long as I was accelerating from a stop, it didn't bother me much, but if I was idling along (such as in a parking garage), it was enough to drive me batty.

And, that's why I bought mine with a proper manual transmission! :P

dcm61

Piston engine Ford A/T goes boing-boing-boing, but the Mazda engine Subaru CVT goes hmmmmmmmm

ateixeira

A lot of people complain about the Focus trans. Manual should be mandatory. :shades:

KCRam

...but give the article a read anyway

CNNMoney.com 11/19/12 - Are Subarus the best car money can buy?

kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host

grahampeters

G'day

Interesting reading, although the comments from readers is very telling. My overall impression is that Subaru build quality is less consistent, especially from US production, than it was ten years ago.

However there are oddities in those comments; the comment that sheet metal is thin seems bizarre as my experience is that metal was very solid. Certainly Subarus are very robust and crash-worthy. For some strange reason, I was hit six times in the rear in my 1999 Outback with only superficial trim damage. However three cars ended up undrivable after hitting the Subaru.

The ultimate reliability of the Subaru is not as good as a Toyota, but definitely far better than Mercedes or BMW

Cheers

Graham

ateixeira

People love to vent...

Look at owner loyalty, they're at or near the top. People come back to buy more when they're satisfied. We're on our 3rd.

I bet comments for other brands would only be worse.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/20/carmd-releases-entirely-objective-reliability- -rankings/

Subaru was named the best in the wagon and crossover SUV category

volkov

Not sure I would make that blanket statement anymore. Both Honda and Toyo have seen big hits to their reputations (and deservedly so ) with huge recalls over the past two years.
Personal experience has shown similar reliability for our 3 Toyos and my 2 subies. The big thing here is that Subie has to be careful not to let reliability issues creep in as sales increase. That big jump in Toyo sales in the past decade I believe had a lot to do with their QC issues.

volkov

I should add, that I do believe your statement to be true for older model vehicles, say 8 years old or so.

colin_l

If you need/want a vehicle exactly like one of Subaru's few offerings, then yes, I do think they are a great value.

If you own vehicles longer and drive more miles, I would suggest a Kia or Hyundai because they have the 10yr/100k warranty, and sadly, Subaru is still not there with Toyota for mechanical reliability.

I haven't bought a Subaru since 1999. The Outback doesn't compare in terms of luxury or drivability to my A4 Avant, and the LGT wagon is long gone. Before that, my wife got a deal she couldn't pass up on a Suzuki G-V and it was a much better value than a Forester. The closest I've come to a Subaru was in 2004 when I bought my Evo; really, the WRX STi is nearly the same car. But I very much doubt the STi would have been as reliable, or sold for 44% of what I paid after owning the car for 8 years and 107k miles.

Also-- odd quote from the article:
" Don't look in Subaru's lineup for any minicars the size of the Honda Fit.."

Doesn't Subaru still make the Pleo and some kind of microvan, but they don't export it outside of Asia? The article was well-researched, but I think they missed this one. They should have said that Subaru has not seen fit to offer their minicars in the US market yet, much as they hesitated for years to bring the WRX over.

xwesx

For an article that is spouting off so many snippits of Subaru history, it's a funny thing that the caption of the photo of Tom Doll states, "Tom Doll, Subaru's top U.S. executive, in a Forester." Um... might want to check that interior again! :P

volkov

I remember that last time I researched things (2008/09 maybe?) the STi was more reliable than the Evo long term and certainly Subaru overall was much better than Mitsu. With the usual YMMV caveat as was the case for your Evo.

toboggan

OK, daughter has a 2002 Forester. Her tires do not have "M+S" or a "snowflake." What's the deal with tire chains. I'm kinda remembering must have on all four tires, not just two tires. What's your input.

By the way she lives in Portland, OR and is visiting us for this month (December in Duluth, MN). There are 3 mountain passes on I-94/90 between here and Portland.

Thanks.

xwesx

All four, for sure, on a Subaru. If you have a two-wheel-drive (1WD with open diff!) vehicle, a pair of chains is fine for those "get unstuck" situations.

The problem with relying on chains over marginal tires for a long trip like the one your daughter is contemplating is that there may be many situations where she'll need them. Situations, such as ice or light (6" or less) snowfall, that wouldn't need chains at all with good tires. If her tires aren't even mud/snow rated, I wouldn't want to use them for winter driving at all. There are some pretty marginal all-season tires out there with the M+S rating on the side, so a lack of that symbol really says something about the tire's intended use.

So, three things on the chains. 1., Low speed only (30 mph MAX) while using them. 2., Use them only when necessary. 3., Take the time to learn how to install them before you need to install them, so that you do it right when it counts. Chains can really tear up a modern car - not only is the body at risk (as always), but there are now wheel sensors, wires, etc., in harm's way.

Their life span is limited, so if she hits a reasonable amount of bad weather, there's a good chance she might wear out (break) chains on this one trip.

Then again, if she has them in the car, you know the weather will be perfect all the way, so why are we discussing this again? :P

toboggan

Thanks for the reply. Maybe we could "pop" for some decent tires for her for the trip back. Any recommendations for tire size 205/70-15?

hammerhead

All-weather, or dedicated winter use?

If all-weather, get the most aggressive tread you can find, and get them siped as well.

I'm guessing since she lives in PDX winter tires would be a waste, but if you go that route, there are many flavors from which to choose. We all seem to have our favorites around here

xwesx

I'm guessing since she lives in PDX winter tires would be a waste

I agree. There's some nasty weather there once in a while, but I don't think such weather necessitates dedicated winter tires as she'd mostly just wear them out on dry roads. Good all-seasons, with chains for the really nasty stuff, should get the job done.

As for tires in particular, my current favorite all-season (overall) is the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred. Pricy rubber, but excellent treadwear and very good traction in pretty much any conditions. Downside: expect some loss of fuel economy. My Forester was consistently 1 mpg lower this summer than last (when I had the stock tires on it).

kyfdx

Even all-season tires have M+S on them... what the heck does she have on there? I can't imagine summer tires on a Forester..

kurtamaxxxguy

Nokian WRG2'S have worked well on my Forester. They are winter rated but useable all year around. They only falter on wet ice, but do great in snow, rain, etc.

xwesx

Everything (except, perhaps, new studs) falters on wet ice! :P

How did the Nokians do in terms of longevity? I imagine you must have gone through at least one set by now....

hondafriek

I don't know about the US, but here in Canada Hankook have a hybrid tire of an all season and a dedicated winter tire. They are the Hankook Optimo4s. See link.

http://tires.canadiantire.ca/en/tires/all-weather-tires/product/0041732P/hankook- - -optimo-4s/

Cheers Pat.

rsholland

Pat, I seem to recall reading some time ago (as in several years ago) that snow tires are *required* in Canada for winter driving, or maybe it was just Quebec?

Bob

volkov

Varies by province and within each province, sometimes by location usually a northern cut-off. Where I live in northern British Columbia, we are required for insurance purposes to run M+S tires in winter. My drive today which was a mix of snow, freezing rain and rain and back again over 300 miles would have been suicidal on anything but winter tires. It is a usual 5 1/2 hour drive which took almost 8. We have those vibration bars on the shoulder and centre line and I was running on them multiple times today. Problem was I had no idea if I was running on the centre line or the shoulder when it happened.

hondafriek

Yeah Bob it isn't Canada wide, it is mandated in Quebec to have snow tires, not yet in Ontario. I am not a fan usually of government telling me what I can do. But in this case I wish they would mandate compulsory snow tire use. As far I am concerned all season tires are really no season. I have dedicated summer and winter tires.

Cheers Pat.

rsholland

...to come up with a "Driving Difficulty Index Map," which is a new map layer within the enhanced interactive maps on weather.com. This map layer shows potentially dangerous weather conditions and help users plan their best driving route.

http://www.media.subaru.com/pressrelease/406/1/weather-channel-weather.com-launc- - - h-new-driving-difficulty-index

Bob

ateixeira

Seems to me that all brands except Subaru need this feature.

xwesx

Oh, man, that'd be great! I'd look for the best route by finding the worst weather!

hammerhead

Later today, my younger son and my daughter will be playing their music for the President of the United States. What an extraordinary honor and opportunity! I am so very proud of Patrick & Gayle, as well as the entire Central Valley HS Marching Band & Color Guard. They have earned this. March well & play strong, ladies and gentlemen. No day but today.

ateixeira

Congrats, that's a huge privilege!

My cousin is there probably listening to him play.

hammerhead

They're at the tail end of the 3rd Division, which is led by the US Navy.
I've got all 3 DVR recorders going on different channels. A group of us are hijacking a big screen at a local sports bar. Marching band is a sport, so it qualifies :shades:

ateixeira

I used to play Trombone so no argument here.

fibber2

Watched the inauguration live today at work on cnn.com. Fantastic, and what a speech! Lofty goals for curing a broken nation. I wish him well.

What a great memory for your kids! Post a link when you get it uploaded.

ateixeira

James Taylor was amazing.

hammerhead

http://www.khq.com/story/20642301/central-valley-bears-march-in-president-obamas- -inaugural-parade

fibber2

Thanks for the link - I teared up watching it. So happy for your kids.

ateixeira

Proud Papa! :shades:

rsholland

Wonderful news. You have every reason to be proud.

Bob

kyfdx

2005 9-2X Aero (that's the WRX clone) for sale at a local used car dealer.... asking $7000!!

Only 137K miles....

saedave

It might not be possible to get the unique Saab sheet metal and plastic body parts now if they were needed. Perhaps one could make it more Subaru one part at a time.

ateixeira

High School scouts came to the hoops game today (my daughter plays for her Middle School) and she absolutely crushed. Led the team in rebounds. And blocks. And then added 8 points for good measure, winning 30-18. :shades:

She sure picked a pretty good day to be on fire!

xwesx

You actually sound hopeful, Steve. Under this president? We're headed from bad to worse here, but it's tough to see through all the smoke and mirrors. :sick:

grahampeters

G'day

Dad used to tell me to steer clear of conversations on Politics, Religion and Sex.

Lets talk about cars!

Graham

robr2

Dad used to tell me to steer clear of conversations on Politics, Religion and Sex.

Yep - add in a family gathering and a little gin and you've got great entertainment!!

ateixeira

Dunno, some cars are sexy as heck!

hondafriek

I would 2nd that sentiment Graham. Where I come from especially, religious differences have gotten a lot of people killed over the years.

Pat.

fibber2

Hey Wes. Given the learned advice offered up by Counselor Graham, we should probably keep this light! I will say that if any business conducted itself the way Congress does, well, it wouldn't be in business for long. And no president, from either party, can fix that.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming......

xwesx

Aye.

I'm happy to report that the push-button start on my Fiesta works as well as a key would in my hands. After letting it sit for 2.5 weeks while away on a family emergency, and being subjected to a myriad of temperatures and precipitation (from snow to rain to snow, temps from -40F up to +35F), it flooded when I attempted to start it.

The car cranked itself for ~10 seconds before stopping. I then pressed the accelerator pedal to the floor to clear the flood, pressed the start button again, and it coughed and choked like it would with a key. It finally caught about half a crank before the car stopped trying for the second time. I then pressed the button a third time, and success!

I guess all those fluctuations, combined with it being about -35F when I tried to start it (after a few hours of engine block and oil pan heating), was too much for the young child.

lilbluewgn02

Michael graduates from Temple University this Friday; I am so proud of him and what he has accomplished so far. I'll be up in Philadelphia freezing my butt off, but inside, I'll be glowing!