Talk of all these new vehicles made me do some looking. That Sorento didn't look too bad until I saw the power or lack there-of... 192hp and 217ft/lbs of torque. Topped off with 3500lbs towing and 15-18mpg.
just for comparison a GMC Envoy has 275hp 275ft/lbs torque and over 6000lbs towing and 15-21mpg.
Both are the same height and width. The GMC is 1 foot longer and $4k more however.
Sorento has the same BW TOD system used in the Isuzu models. It will give you a 15/85 torque split and will vary it up to 50/50 in Hi-range. In low range it locks in 50/50 split with low range gearing.
The TOD system comes with the Luxury Package. The EX models get PT 4wd.
I'll agree witht he 4x4, but where is the power? Given the poor fuel millage I expected more. Even GM can do better. Subaru does better with the H6 with about the same power and much better mpg.
Also subie AWD can be dangerous! Yesterday I pulled into the parking lot at work and when I got out almost slipped and landed on my backside... AWD on the subie did too well and I couldn't tell the parking lot was icy....
Give me 2WD and rear wheel at that, so I can spin-out and crash. Then I know to be careful when getting out! :O
I agree it's a little down on power, but to tell you the truth, my Trooper only has 230lbs of torque and it tows 5000easily and 7500lbs (outside the US) w/o a problem. So Kia probably just went conservative on the #s. My old Rodeo only had 190hpish. If you need a race car, then don't buy the Sorento....
Is Alex responsible for this!? No homepage, IP site refuses my login and can't find the forums, just DNS failures for both. I can't believe it is taking this much time to iron out; and everyone else is apparently merrily posting away. erm except Colin a bit. So you know what I am going through. Serious Legacy Forum withdrawal.
My favorite excerpt from that review: "hard to come to terms with a Porsche-badged 4x4".
Sorento's mileage is dismal. 15/18? That would make range not so good.
Still, use the $4k you saved to buy gas for a couple of years. But resale had better be good or you'll take another bath there. C&D tests is this month, 0-60 was slower than the Baja and Forester.
In fact the Baja outruns the Explorer Sport Trac and the Nissan Frontier even with the supercharger.
Stopped by Moscone Center last night to drop by the SF Auto Show. Unlike major venues like LA, Detroit and NY, the SF Auto show is pretty minor (ie. no new vehicles).
The Subaru booth spotlight was on the Baja. It seemed to generate moderate interest with folks stopping by to listen to the booth attendant give one of those presentations on the rotating platform. Other than that, the line up was fairly standard -- a couple of Foresters, OBs, WRX and WRX wagon, and a Legacy LSE. No Legacy GT, though. The Legacy LSE impressed me quite a bit with all the options. The WRX sedan was a like a shrine for drooling teenagers.
Other vehicles on the show that caught my attention:
Mazda 6: I thought Mazda did a good job in giving it a distinct, sporty look. It was nice to see that they didn't follow the recent trend for swept back headlights and opted for a tight cluster of projector beams. Fairly roomy inside.
Hummer H2: Lots of popularity here, even though the features are gross overkill for 99.99% of the people checking it out. Hummer did a good job in carrying over the industrial feel of the H1 except for that awful front dash.
Nissan Murano: Looks like a Saturn from the front but was *very* impressed with the room inside. I had ample leg room in the back with some 6" guy checking out the front seats. Cargo room is commendable for a vehicle of it's size. The view from the driver's seat looks a bit like a minivan with the sloping windshield.
Nissan 350Z: Way too many people on it for me to get a good look.
BMW Z4: I tried, but I still can't get myself to like the confusing lines on this car. Yeck.
Mini Cooper S: Everything about this vehicle exudes "fun little car". Love the huge speedo in the center of the dash. How the heck do you get into those rear seats?
Volvo XC90: Volvo clearly did their HW. It's roomy, has fold-away 3rd row seats (for kids) and filled with features. That combined with all the saftey features will make this a good seller.
No GT because...it's being updated? 3.0GT coming soon? Or a turbo? I can't wait 2 years.
I liked the 6, too. Did you notice the taillights bulge out a little?
The H2's price seems high, but many luxo-utes cost that much or more.
The Murano really seemed roomy? From the outside it totally looks like form over function. I find it quite handsome. We saw it but could not climb in at the NY show.
There already is a turbo kit for the Cooper, even the S!
A close friend is cross-shopping the XC90 with the Aviator. He wants to tow a boat so the Lincoln has the edge, plus it's more available.
No, I didn't notice the tailights on the 6. What I did notice was that there was quite a bit of room behind the front bumper to the radiator. That pointed "nose" design cosmetically adds 5-6" to the length of the 6.
Yeah, the Murano is suprisingly large inside. My buddy and I jumped in and out of it several times. It looks smaller than it really is from the outside.
I personally don't like the H2, but I did think they did a good job in carrying over the feel of the H1.
yeesh, between the server thing on the other board (got on for 30 precious minutes today before losing it again for the rest of the afternoon) I am seriously jonesing.
NEWay, Paisan, you are not entirely right there. A lot of that truck uses off-the-shelf-parts from GM truck bins and the big-ute platform, but it is a lot more capable off road, with locking diffs, more rigid frame, short overhangs and higher clearance. I personally hate the tonka toy looks my own self, and cringe at the ad campaigns.
Can't comment on the ad campaign ... haven't checked it out and I don't watch much tv at all .. HOWEVER .. I work near AM General plant and see truckloads of the Hummer2's leaving the factory almost every morning .. lol .. actually I have to say I like the way the H2 looks from the outside, but I haven't seen the inside of one as of yet. I do know that the older ones have "no" room inside. BTW, we see a lot of those around here, too ...
Lady: do you see any of South Bend's *other* native vehicles still on the road? Just curious as I drove mine to work yesterday, on of the last trips it'll take before being readied for winter.
Brenda- Did I understand correctly that you're saying that the Hummer "has no room inside"? If so, I must disagree. While the Hummer doesn't have the usual interior layout and the seating positions don't offer a lot of room, there is still gobs of interior space. For instance, it's a stretch to reach across and touch someone in the opposite seat.
-Frank P. (who has spent many many hours in a HMMWV)
but I was sick in bed last week, so I had little else to do. The ads brazenly pitch the "my truck is bigger and tougher than yours, and is especially bigger than you mortals in cars." Worse, I have yet to see one with any men in it---they are entirely pitched to urban professional women and moms.
hmm $10-20K for a front locking diffy? No thanks. Everything on a hummer can be done to a suburban for MUCH MUCH cheaper.
It' just eye candy, just like the porsche guys who never take their cars to the road-course. It's just a way for the rich to flaunt their $. More $ than sense IMHO.
Saw this sticky over on the I-Club. Could this be your problem?
<< Well everyone should now be able to access the new address http://www.nasioc.com/. We were getting a lot of e-mails from people who were having a lot of trouble accessing the site. And after a LOT of troubleshooting we found out that our internet service provider had actually removed some records from their DNS servers.
In non-techie: they removed some stuff that allowed everyone to access our site. Techno-babble: They removed our DNS entries for our DNS servers from their DNS servers, we had two DNS servers acting like doorstops!
Needless to say my ISP will get a call tomorrow!!!
But the best part is we are now really up and running. I do want to apologize to all the people that were having access problems over the last few days. The transition itself was quite rushed, but would have gone smoothly if it wasn't for this little hiccup provided by our internet service provider.
So, welcoming you all again, please enjoy the new site and do keep your eyes peeled, there will be good things coming soon! >>
<< It' just eye candy, just like the porsche guys who never take their cars to the road-course. It's just a way for the rich to flaunt their $. More $ than sense IMHO. >>
While I agree that most people buy this vehicle for all the wrong reasons, it can do far more than any stock Suburban can off road.
Brenda- The interior of the H2 is much better than the H1—but that's not saying much. The interior-mounted spare takes up so much room, that there's only room for a 1-passenger 3rd-row seat.
But $ for $ you can make a stock suburban far better than a stock H2 for much less $.
So yes stock to stock the H2 is better offroad, but for H2 - $10K you can have a bad-[non-permissible content removed] Suburban that will kick the H2 all over the place offroad.
You remove the bumpers and replace them with less intrusive ones, it just take $ and not that much of it. I've seen lots and lots of modifications done to truck for not a whole lot of $. (at least not on hummer scales).
The H2 is a great example of how people buy based on what a vehicle "could do" rather than what they actually "would do" with it. Knowing that you could crawl up any trail or drive over econocars probably is a rush for some folks.
I don't think the H2 would be so popular if Hummer had just released a vehicle that looked like an H1 but had no off-roading capabilities.
It's scary to think of these beasts parked at shopping malls.
If you're buying a vehicle to HAUL people then the hummer isn't the one to buy .. if you're buying it to climb mountains .. it just might be .. And I agree ... I think most people with a hummer bought it for what it COULD do rather than what they actually do with it ... (didn't mean to open a can of worms here ... lol)
Lark .. I DO see Studebakers around town here .. mostly in the summer ... there are a few beautiful Avantis around town too ... man that car was ahead of its time!
Any Stude that's seen it's share of winters would have rusted away to the frame by now - at least where they salt the roads. I was lucky that mine had such a straight body when I found it. It only had two holes in the front floorpans, no doubt from wet, salty boots - the previous owner gave me a photo of it in which it had snow tires fitted. Still the holes were the size of canteloupes and I had the pans replaced.
Sometimes I have Avanti lust but there are a lot of quirky things about them that make ownership less than appealing. Early production models lacked adequate transmission cooling; the driveline tunnels get very hot and bake the passengers. The taillights are very tiny - about the size of this "post my message" text box - making it difficult for others to see you. Seats aren't that comfy either, even by 1960s standards. Then of course there are the issues around maintaining and restoring old fiberglass bodywork, which any Corvette owner can understand. Mechanically they are almost identical to any Lark; they were built on Lark convertible frames and share most drivetrain and suspension components. I think I'd rather have a nice Lark Daytona convertible but I'm funny that way.
Still the Avanti is one of the most striking American cars ever built and can cruise at modern highway speeds without effort.
Yea I saw that too....free and easy posting ever since!
Paisan- I wouldn't argue your point at all. Just that most folks who shop this category are more willing to pay extra$k fr the thing to come that way than to take a sawzall to a stock suburban. They'll never REALLY use the thing off road, so what do they want to go and do the research/customization themselves for? Not when they can buy a tonka toy equivelent and park it next to the Carrera 4. WHICH incidentally is the more likely of their 2 vehicles to see off-raod experience....intentionally or not. :'))
Reminds me of an auto-x last year with the local PCA. My 165hp overweight GT smoked over half the boxsters and even a number of 911s. Most owners treated the event as a parade lap for their detailing jobs. 1 in 10 actually drove the durned thing. It was pathetic to watch from the work station. At least some of theose dudes were there to drive. But classic rear engine powerslides and "oooh he's gonna lose it....OH he caught it!!" excitement I was expecting was not there. Only about a dozen of the 40+ cars that showed up were really driven well and quickly.
Those are good stories. If you have more, please share 'em!
Reminds me of the local dragaway (dragstrip) I use to work at after high school. Most, if not all, were there to race (and win money/trophy if in those brackets). But, you'd occassionally get the fella who didn't know how to 'stage' properly, end up red lighting or just sitting there when the tree dropped green. And typically you do a burn-out prior to 'staging'. Most of these 'rookies' would just skip it.
Comments
From the sides, the Sorento look very much like an MDX with it's big curving wheel arches.
Ram Hemi: Love that commercial "Oh you mean the Charger?".
Ken
That one cracks me up every time ... only problem is ... I think I went to SCHOOL with those guys in the car ... lol
I thought they stared in Deliverance.
Bob
just for comparison a GMC Envoy has 275hp 275ft/lbs torque and over 6000lbs towing and 15-21mpg.
Both are the same height and width. The GMC is 1 foot longer and $4k more however.
--jay
-mike
Bob
The TOD system comes with the Luxury Package. The EX models get PT 4wd.
-mike
Also subie AWD can be dangerous! Yesterday I pulled into the parking lot at work and when I got out almost slipped and landed on my backside... AWD on the subie did too well and I couldn't tell the parking lot was icy....
Give me 2WD and rear wheel at that, so I can spin-out and crash. Then I know to be careful when getting out! :O
-mike
Jim
Bob
nick@nasioc.com
not sure what's up. it's working as I type this though.
-Colin
-mike
Sorento's mileage is dismal. 15/18? That would make range not so good.
Still, use the $4k you saved to buy gas for a couple of years. But resale had better be good or you'll take another bath there. C&D tests is this month, 0-60 was slower than the Baja and Forester.
In fact the Baja outruns the Explorer Sport Trac and the Nissan Frontier even with the supercharger.
-juice
BTW, anyone notice that Edmund's has been slooooow recently?
Ken
The Subaru booth spotlight was on the Baja. It seemed to generate moderate interest with folks stopping by to listen to the booth attendant give one of those presentations on the rotating platform. Other than that, the line up was fairly standard -- a couple of Foresters, OBs, WRX and WRX wagon, and a Legacy LSE. No Legacy GT, though. The Legacy LSE impressed me quite a bit with all the options. The WRX sedan was a like a shrine for drooling teenagers.
Other vehicles on the show that caught my attention:
Mazda 6: I thought Mazda did a good job in giving it a distinct, sporty look. It was nice to see that they didn't follow the recent trend for swept back headlights and opted for a tight cluster of projector beams. Fairly roomy inside.
Hummer H2: Lots of popularity here, even though the features are gross overkill for 99.99% of the people checking it out. Hummer did a good job in carrying over the industrial feel of the H1 except for that awful front dash.
Nissan Murano: Looks like a Saturn from the front but was *very* impressed with the room inside. I had ample leg room in the back with some 6" guy checking out the front seats. Cargo room is commendable for a vehicle of it's size. The view from the driver's seat looks a bit like a minivan with the sloping windshield.
Nissan 350Z: Way too many people on it for me to get a good look.
BMW Z4: I tried, but I still can't get myself to like the confusing lines on this car. Yeck.
Mini Cooper S: Everything about this vehicle exudes "fun little car". Love the huge speedo in the center of the dash. How the heck do you get into those rear seats?
Volvo XC90: Volvo clearly did their HW. It's roomy, has fold-away 3rd row seats (for kids) and filled with features. That combined with all the saftey features will make this a good seller.
Ken
I liked the 6, too. Did you notice the taillights bulge out a little?
The H2's price seems high, but many luxo-utes cost that much or more.
The Murano really seemed roomy? From the outside it totally looks like form over function. I find it quite handsome. We saw it but could not climb in at the NY show.
There already is a turbo kit for the Cooper, even the S!
A close friend is cross-shopping the XC90 with the Aviator. He wants to tow a boat so the Lincoln has the edge, plus it's more available.
-juice
-mike
Yeah, the Murano is suprisingly large inside. My buddy and I jumped in and out of it several times. It looks smaller than it really is from the outside.
I personally don't like the H2, but I did think they did a good job in carrying over the feel of the H1.
Ken
In that price range, I mean. Range Rover, maybe? Land Cruiser/LX470? GX470?
Lots of nice choices but none have the visual panache of the H2. I'm not saying I'd buy it, but it's hard to ignore.
I'll look forward to checking out a Murano, then. I assumed it would be tight inside.
-juice
NEWay, Paisan, you are not entirely right there. A lot of that truck uses off-the-shelf-parts from GM truck bins and the big-ute platform, but it is a lot more capable off road, with locking diffs, more rigid frame, short overhangs and higher clearance. I personally hate the tonka toy looks my own self, and cringe at the ad campaigns.
Bob
Ed
-Frank P. (who has spent many many hours in a HMMWV)
It' just eye candy, just like the porsche guys who never take their cars to the road-course. It's just a way for the rich to flaunt their $. More $ than sense IMHO.
-mike
<< Well everyone should now be able to access the new address http://www.nasioc.com/. We were getting a lot of e-mails from people who were having a lot of trouble accessing the site. And after a LOT of troubleshooting we found out that our internet service provider had actually removed some records from their DNS servers.
In non-techie: they removed some stuff that allowed everyone to access our site. Techno-babble: They removed our DNS entries for our DNS servers from their DNS servers, we had two DNS servers acting like doorstops!
Needless to say my ISP will get a call tomorrow!!!
But the best part is we are now really up and running. I do want to apologize to all the people that were having access problems over the last few days. The transition itself was quite rushed, but would have gone smoothly if it wasn't for this little hiccup provided by our internet service provider.
So, welcoming you all again, please enjoy the new site and do keep your eyes peeled, there will be good things coming soon! >>
Bob
While I agree that most people buy this vehicle for all the wrong reasons, it can do far more than any stock Suburban can off road.
Brenda-
The interior of the H2 is much better than the H1—but that's not saying much. The interior-mounted spare takes up so much room, that there's only room for a 1-passenger 3rd-row seat.
Bob
So yes stock to stock the H2 is better offroad, but for H2 - $10K you can have a bad-[non-permissible content removed] Suburban that will kick the H2 all over the place offroad.
-mike
The H2 has far better angles of approach & departure. No amount of money put into the Suburban (short of a redesign) can address that.
Bob
-mike
Bob
I don't think the H2 would be so popular if Hummer had just released a vehicle that looked like an H1 but had no off-roading capabilities.
It's scary to think of these beasts parked at shopping malls.
Ken
Overhangs: It's amazing what a sawzall and some bodywork could do, you might have to use a tahoe base to get the same rear overhang as the H2 though.
-mike
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/hobbico/microsizers/indexg.html
And I agree ... I think most people with a hummer bought it for what it COULD do rather than what they actually do with it ...
(didn't mean to open a can of worms here ... lol)
Sometimes I have Avanti lust but there are a lot of quirky things about them that make ownership less than appealing. Early production models lacked adequate transmission cooling; the driveline tunnels get very hot and bake the passengers. The taillights are very tiny - about the size of this "post my message" text box - making it difficult for others to see you. Seats aren't that comfy either, even by 1960s standards. Then of course there are the issues around maintaining and restoring old fiberglass bodywork, which any Corvette owner can understand. Mechanically they are almost identical to any Lark; they were built on Lark convertible frames and share most drivetrain and suspension components. I think I'd rather have a nice Lark Daytona convertible but I'm funny that way.
Still the Avanti is one of the most striking American cars ever built and can cruise at modern highway speeds without effort.
Enough Stude talk.
Ed
Paisan- I wouldn't argue your point at all. Just that most folks who shop this category are more willing to pay extra$k fr the thing to come that way than to take a sawzall to a stock suburban. They'll never REALLY use the thing off road, so what do they want to go and do the research/customization themselves for? Not when they can buy a tonka toy equivelent and park it next to the Carrera 4. WHICH incidentally is the more likely of their 2 vehicles to see off-raod experience....intentionally or not. :'))
Reminds me of an auto-x last year with the local PCA. My 165hp overweight GT smoked over half the boxsters and even a number of 911s. Most owners treated the event as a parade lap for their detailing jobs. 1 in 10 actually drove the durned thing. It was pathetic to watch from the work station. At least some of theose dudes were there to drive. But classic rear engine powerslides and "oooh he's gonna lose it....OH he caught it!!" excitement I was expecting was not there. Only about a dozen of the 40+ cars that showed up were really driven well and quickly.
-mike
Ken
Reminds me of the local dragaway (dragstrip) I use to work at after high school. Most, if not all, were there to race (and win money/trophy if in those brackets). But, you'd occassionally get the fella who didn't know how to 'stage' properly, end up red lighting or just sitting there when the tree dropped green. And typically you do a burn-out prior to 'staging'. Most of these 'rookies' would just skip it.
-Brian
Bob
http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=41597