Subaru Crew Cafe

16162646667343

Comments

  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Scientific American ran a small blurb about this in their December 2002 issue.

    Here's the original study:
    http://enews.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/EETD-SUV-Safety.htm- l

    One of the authors works at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory.

    Note: Edmunds is putting an extraneous space and dash into the html file extension on save. Not sure this link will work, but the URL is otherwise correct.

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That puts the Jetta well ahead of the Explorer and 4Runner, for instance.

    But it's not taking the driver demographic into account. Look at the Avalon - it's almost a zero risk to other drivers, but that's most likely because it has older, safer drivers behind the wheel. I'm sure it would do more damage in a same-speed collision than a Jetta would.

    So it only tells part of the story, but still, it's interesting.

    -juice
  • eric102eric102 Member Posts: 122
    I just had a new house built. The first thing they did was to do the heavy sanding and staining. Next the painters came in and messed everything up. Then the carpets were laid. The very last thing done before I moved in was lightly re sanding the floors (and paint removal) and several coats of sealer put on. Wasn't that much dust on any of the sandings, pretty good dust collection system on their sanders. I have painted baseboards and the floor guys didn't put any nicks in them.

    If I need to redo the floors in a few years, I'll paint first.

    Eric
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    The full text is available as a pdf for download on their site.

    They did examine driver demographics. That's part of the story. They found very little difference due to gender or age regarding SUV's - it may be that drivers of SUV's overestimate their risk and drive more aggressively, regardless of age or gender.

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can buy that, but I doubt they took into account the age difference between Avalon and Civic drivers for that graph.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Not sure, have to read it more closely...

    I did see a table with the demographics for every vehicle - some of the differences were large as you suggest.

    They would need to perform a factor analysis to tease this out. I didn't see that they did so.

    -brianV
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Thanks, again, for the reposnes folks. I think it's going to come down to availability of the contractors. Since we want to move in by the end of February, we want to schedule the paint and refinishing in a way to maximize time usage.

    Unfortunately, we're going to be refinishing most of the house so it's going to be pretty nasty. The current owner had carpeted over the original hardwood in the living room, dining room and hallways. Luckily, the hardwood is a nice and thick oak so it should turn out nicely.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The demographics can sway the numbers when you compare a Civic owners to an Avalon owners. But you still see huge differences from a Neon to a Civic, and those cars are in the same class. So I see that difference as more significant.

    Carpet even in the dining room?

    I suffer from asthma so getting rid of carpet is almost a hobby. I love hardwoods.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Baby Aston is a beaut, eh? Thumbs up. Looks like the big brother, but scaled down it's even more sexy.

    Anyone else think Audi's Pikes Peak concept looks a LOT like Infiniti's Bionic Cheetah? Cool concept, though.

    How is BMW going to make the X3 roomy enough if the X5 is already so small? Plus, did anyone notice they stole surplus Forester rims for the concept? LOL

    The Buick Centieme looks alien-like, maybe half way between the old Chrysler Citadel concept and the new Murano, including the blind spots. I don't see how it improves on the Rendezvous.

    Autoweek liked the Sixteen, but I think it looks absolutely cartoonish. Hey look! It's Roger Rabbit's car! The hood is ridiculously long. Looks like one of those cheap kits that started with an '80s Mercury Cougar and replaced the front half with an old looking model kit.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << The Buick Centieme looks alien-like, maybe half way between the old Chrysler Citadel concept and the new Murano, including the blind spots. I don't see how it improves on the Rendezvous. >>

    Perhaps, but it's MUCH better looking than the Rendezvous. Still a Buick though...

    << Autoweek liked the Sixteen, but I think it looks absolutely cartoonish. Hey look! It's Roger Rabbit's car! The hood is ridiculously long. Looks like one of those cheap kits that started with an '80s Mercury Cougar and replaced the front half with an old looking model kit. >.

    You need a long hood with 16 cylinders. I read that the engine is an OHV unit, not DOHC. The hood opens like butterfly, just like those hoods of the 1930s.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cheyenne has some good ideas, like the split tailgate that can become a table, and the side openings to the bed. We should check it out if it makes it to NY. Maybe by then you can crawl around it. But I'd prefer a hybrid vs. displacement on demand. Indy rear suspension, too, that would be a big pickup first.

    The Chevy SS is ugly from every angle, and the Corvette is supposed to be styled like this? Yuck.

    Avenger looks a little out of proportion - the green house is way too small for that body. But any AWD V6 would be more exciting than a Stratus.

    The new Durango looks like those angry kitchen appliances Lutz was talking about. A Hemi with a 5 speed sound good, but a live axle on this behemoth? Why? It's too big to go off road. That 3rd row still won't have a foot well where you can put your feet. Leave Jeep for the off roaders, and make the Durango more civilized.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll have to see the Centieme in person. It does look kind of Murano-stylish. Problem is, Buick would put that gutless and coarse 3.4l engine and VersaCrap, and base it on a heavy minivan chassis.

    Cadillac should build a car for this century, don't you think?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    like the F-150, was rumored to get an IRS. For whatever reasons, it never happened.

    The Durango is still a concept, and not the real-deal yet. I understand about 85%, if not more, of what you see will occur. I don't think it has a split 3rd-row seat, which is a HUGE mistake.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Remember our discussion about the next-generation Honda Odyssey, a few months ago? Most of what I predicted for the Odyssey has ended up on the new Toyota Sienna: AWD (option), 8-passenger seating (option), and a split fold-away 3rd row seat.

    The rear side door windows also roll down, at least part way, like the Mazda minivan. The styling still is Toyota ultra bland...

    Now that Toyota has upped the ante, I feel more certain than ever that Honda will match Toyota, and offer a few more goodies still.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    We really should plan to make this a big event for the Crew. We can do it like the philly show where we go to the show and then hit some good local eats afterward. :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    For me, it's the ability to catch a train back to Baltimore, at some reasonable hour. That's why juice and I did what we did last year.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Come on a weekend or carpool up and back. :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've done that before. Drive up, spend the afternoon at the show, and drive back. I was exhausted. It's wonder I didn't fall asleep at the wheel. It's just too long. The train is faster and much easier.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well come on a weekend then so the rest of us can meet up. :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree - a one piece folding 3rd row would make it the only new SUV NOT to split fold. The concept doesn't really update the Durango at all, it's just a face-lift. Lame.

    I do recall our Odyssey bet. Thing is, the Sienna sort of changes the rules a bit. For Honda to offer any sort of breakthrough, they really have to get creative now. I bet the Honda designers are going back to the drawing board, to come up with all that and a bag of chips.

    I didn't realize the Sienna's rear window even opens - that would make it truly complete. It's not missing anything at all, really.

    The Dodge Kahuna is kind of wild. I wonder is those canvas tops will ever make it here.

    I'm surprised they manage to get the Tomahawk on stage under its own power. Must've been a real balance act for the rider.

    On the Ford 427, those "squircles" looks more like ovals to me. The headlights look goofy, but I like the grille and the rear 3/4 view.

    Major kudos to the Freestyle FX. I love it. This could replace the Taurus. It's attractive, versatile, and not too big. It's a Baja and Outback all in one. Edmunds likes it too, though Autoweek sort of brushed it off. I'm with Edmunds on this one, thumbs up!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    doesn't have a split 3rd row seat either. It's a one-piece unit. I hope they change next year.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I say we first pick a day where everyone can go.

    We meet in the AM at the Subaru stand. Check all the Subies out first. Grab a lunch somewhere as a group, then head back to the show and sort of browse all the other stands. At least that's what I'd like to do.

    We have to strike a balance between getting to see everyone, and finding time to browse the vehicles. Last year worked very well because Bob and I went at a fairly quick pace. I'd like to do the same thing again - the train worked well.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Explorer's 3rd row doesn't split? Seems like a major omission now. It's funny how first it was cupholder wars, then door wars, now it's the seats.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I think the show opens at 11:00 on weekends. The only possible down side, is that there may be fewer trains to choose from, being a weekend.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, weekdays are a lot less crowded. Does it open any earlier on weekdays?

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Model U is kind of goofy. Looks like a Gurgel, a kit car made in Brazil on a VW old Beetle chassis.

    I like the Mustang. They should touch-up the rear, but it looks good. Family resemblance without looking old. Fix the silly interior though.

    The SVT Lightning looks solid. I like the Expedition front end, and the super duty look to the doors, looks beefy. Nice interior, too, similar to the SUV. Looks like a car interior, not a truck interior. Check out how deep the cargo bed is, too.

    The Studio E hints that Honda could make a panel van out of the Element, for customization. Could be interesting, since it's not an ideal setup for carrying passengers (just 4, and the front passenger has to remove his seat belt for the rear passenger to get out).

    The Hyundai OLV is hideous and doesn't even have any new ideas worth mentioning.

    Do you like the Triant's smiley face? It's hilarious, more than the original Neon, this car says "Hi". It's dorky, put this concept straight in the trash.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dang! I wish I could join you guys in NY. I wonder if there are any cheap last minute fares...

    Ken
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    They say they named it for the French word for "100".......

    uh, guys? the french word for 100 is "cent."

    Centieme, IIRC, is the french word for "penny," as in, $.01....
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Ken-
    when we have a date set you could *cough* visit client *cough* here in the Northeast. ;-)

    -Dave
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    juice,

    the reasons live axles still exist in trucks is because of weight capacity and durability.

    the new F-150 better have some seriously beefy CV joints... even still, many will be wary of it until "proven" a few years down the road.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's not so much that Nissan is now introducing some very exciting products (Subaru is too),, it's just that Nissan is cranking them out almost overnight, and by the truckload. Subaru, in contrast, is taking FOREVER to update their products.

    How long has the turbo Legacy been rumored? I can recall that rumor surfacing shortly after the current-generation Legacy was introduced, which was well over three years ago&#151;and it's still over a year away!!

    http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders/0301/24/inside-68238.htm

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I dunno, Bob. Nissan's engines (VQ) and drivetrains (CVT) are interesting, but the cost-cutting is quite visible in the interiors, which are awfully plasticky. The Altima fell to average reliability too.

    Kia Slice, funny name no? I say tame it a little and go ahead and build it. It could be a cheap little people hauler.

    Murcielago drop-top? Sure, I'll take one.

    Navicross is a waste. Looks like a recycled Ford 49 concept with a lifted suspension. Outback sedans sell very poorly, don't even bother.

    Kubang is even uglier than the Cayenne. When will sports car manufacturers understand that their styling doesn't translate into an SUV?

    Edmunds calls the Washu a crossover, but to me it's just a freaky looking minivan. I prefer the MPV anyway.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << I dunno, Bob. Nissan's engines (VQ) and drivetrains (CVT) are interesting, but the cost-cutting is quite visible in the interiors, which are awfully plasticky. The Altima fell to average reliability too. >>

    The Murano didn't appear cheap-looking on the inside. At least they used real aluminum, rather than the aluminum-colored plastic like that found on the Forester. Also, the WRX interior, in many areas looks pretty cheap. Yeah it has great seats, but the rest is pretty low-rent, IMO.

    Bob
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    reliability is fantastic though.

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They are pretty low volume, and their customers are not likely to complain, same goes for BMW, Merc, Acura, etc.

    -mike
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    are they not likely to complain any more or less than any other car? Ego, maybe, but also if you spent a large some of money and the car was not reliable - well, you may be more inclined to say so. BMW and MB perhaps have some truth to that though.

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    To you and I they spent a lot of money on the car, but for a lot of those buyers, their car purchase is a spec in their portfolio of real estate, stocks, bonds etc. So as a % of their total net worth it's much smaller than the average person.

    -mike
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    True. Nissan does crank out quite a bit of new models every year, but then again they have lots more R&D money to burn. A friend of a friend works at the Nissan development center down in Southern CA and he's been driving a prototype G35 coupe for some time. Now he's switching over to a Murano. Sounds like a fun job.

    The Altima does have a cheap interior, but I think it's a fair trade off for given the price and engine output. It's configuration sets it slighty aside from other Japanese sedans in it's price range.

    Perhaps the reason why luxury car owners are less likely to complain is that they get better service when a problem occurs. For example, the Lexus dealer near my office will provide you with a loaner that is the same, if not better, than what you drive. Also, the more you pay, the more pre-paid maintenance you tend to get.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << True. Nissan does crank out quite a bit of new models every year, but then again they have lots more R&D money to burn. >>

    Before Renault/Goshen got involved, Nissan was soon to be on the verge of collapse. Subaru has GM's deep pockets now, so "new product" should be more forthcoming&#151;quickly, I would think.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: I don't like the silver stuff in the Forester and Impreza either. Actually, that portion of the new interiors look cheaper than the last generation. Still not as bad as the Altima, though, which seems to employ cheap materials all over the place.

    Haven't seen the Murano up close but I'll take your word for it. Even the Infiniti G35 didn't impress me, though. It's at a level where Nissan should be.

    I much prefer the Legacy interior right now. I hope the 2005 doesn't get all kinds of fake aluminum/chrome.

    I wonder if GM has helped Subaru financially. Doesn't seem like they've had much influence at all.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's a different situation. Renault pretty much has its house already in pretty good order. Not so at GM. They continue to struggle in terms of product, etc. GM's first order of business is to get their core products up to snuff. So I think less effort/money is being given to Subaru, than Renault gave Nissan. That's just my guess.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the Scenic was a huge hit, and they have lots of good diesels. I think they just did a new Megane, actually.

    -juice
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Don't know about the states, but up here Infinity appears to depreciate quicker than the luxury brands from Honda and Toyota.

      Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    For some time I had predicted that the new '04 Ford F-150 would have an IRS setup. Well, when it was just introduced at the Detroit Show, IRS was MIA... I assumed, both then and now, that it ended up on the engineering floor due to excessive costs, and that Ford is doing everything in its power to stem the red ink from continued hemorrhaging. In any event, I found this thread over at BON, on this topic.

    http://warnerrobert.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=0- - 00282

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, the Megane II actually won European Car of the Year. Ugly little hatch, too. Euro tastes are so incredibly different than american tastes.

    Man, it's funny to read some of the responses to the thought of putting the IRS on there. Those guys love their trucks!

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I agree with most of em on the IRS thing in a PU. But we already knew that :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Sooner or later IRS will be coming to pickups, at least to the 1/2 ton versions. It's just a matter of time. It's mostly a marketing issue, not a functional issue. As several posters said, it will probably show up first on the F-150 Lightning, then other models will follow. It may show up as an option, like the GM 4-wheel Quadra-steer is now, but it's coming.

    IRS, as you know is on the the Hummer which has ~ 10,500 GVW. Oshkosh also makes several severe-duty trucks with IRS, so it can be done on "work" trucks. As I said, it's more a matter of overcoming long-held prejudices that many truckers still hold.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's much less necessary on a pickup, though. The main reason is space - and on pickups you don't have to worry about foot room for the 3rd row.

    I guess if they want to lower the bed height for easy lift up, they could, but then consumers would complain that it looked to lowered.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ford (or anyone else) can make a really convincing case as to why IRS is better than a solid rear axle, then it will occur. So far, Ford has not made that case. My guess is they want to get the new F-150 off to a good (non-controversial, and with no recalls!!) launch. Once that is accomplished, then we may see it as an option, probably in a few years.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    But at 70-100K for a Hummer, and 50K+ for IRS traditional trucks, what's the point? I'm all for IRS but at what repair costs and initial outlays.

    -mike
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