Subaru Crew Cafe

ateixeira

I think it's closer to a plain WRX, though. It gets a simplistic viscous coupling and the 5 speed you mentioned. It just gets a bit more power, and even then you give up some refinement.

The STi is on another playing field entirely, the EVO cannot even compare.

-juice

rsholland

has expensive 17" wheels and Brembro brakes. Add those to the base WRX, and it too will be a $28K car.

Bob

ateixeira

Not really, you can get a WRX for $22 grand. The 17"s would run a grand or so, plus you'd have a 2nd set of rims. The Brembos might be another grand, but you're still well under the EVO's price.

But the EVO has a moonroof standard, it seems, so that would get prices a little closer.

I dunno, though, I don't see the value in a $28k compact. You could say the same thing about the STi, but that's in the big leagues with some exotic company, so it's different.

-juice

rsholland

<< Not really, you can get a WRX for $22 grand. The 17"s would run a grand or so, plus you'd have a 2nd set of rims. >>

The 17" rims on the EVO are Enkie(sp?), which are probably in the $3K range, like the Subie BBS wheel option. Also, I was talking about MSRP, and '04 prices, which will be higher than '03 prices.

Bob

hondafriek

The Brembo brakes are closer to $2500,believe me I have priced then all, they may be a little cheaper if they are installed as a factory option.

  Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

Are those Enkeis forged? $3 grand seems pretty steep. Dealers were selling a different 17" BBS rim for the WRX for $1800 or so with tires.

I guess it is in the middle ground. Still, the STi's DCCD is not something you can upgrade easily on your own, nor is the 6 speed. Rims are rims, that takes 15 minutes to swap. Brakes are a little tougher, but still something relatively easy to DIY.

So you could easily get a WRX to match an EVO, but it would be much harder to get an EVO to match an STi.

-juice

rsholland

Subie dealers don't want to share wagon with Saab

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=42416

New Trooper?

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=42410

Bob

ateixeira

Better Saab than any other GM brand, since Saab is small and has few dealers. Plus it's upscale, so it would probably be priced higher than the WRX.

Dealers don't want to share the total sales, so of course they object.

But Saab just left the hatchback market, so a WRX wagon wouldn't fit in with the rest of the line. If anything they should sell a 9-2 sedan based on the WRX.

What does Isuzu make in Thailand? The current Trooper? If so it might be updated. The Ascender is so big that a Trooper could still slot below it in size and price.

-juice

paisan

Isuzu makes the colorado twin the DMAX in Thailand, and some trucks.

Troopers were made in Japan.

-mike

p0926

So am I right to assume that our East Coast contingent is out playing in the snow today? If so, I'm jealous cause all we got in Atlanta was a lot of very cold rain.

-Frank P.

bluesubie

When I left home (Central NJ) we had about 5" or so. Southern Jersey is supposed to get up to 10". hypov and paisan are heading to Baltimore auto show with the MD gang.

-Dennis

p0926

Oh yeah, that is today. Well you certainly couldn't ask for more perfect weather for a Subaru Crew road trip to an auto show. As a bonus, it shouldn't be very crowded either ;-)

-Frank P.

lark6

9" here but tapering off. I shoveled the driveway and took the Forester out for a jaunt around 9:00. Found a mostly empty parking lot to toss around and practice my opposite lock. Dennis: you wanted to see the Forester get sideways, you should've been with me earlier!

Now back home - office closed officially but still trying to get some work done.

Hope the road trip contingent made it there safely. I'm sure we'll get a report later today.

Ed

kate5000

really, really a great choice. Pinpoints the interests of active lifestyle Subaru crowd. Great athlete and great personality too. But the slogan "driven by what's inside"? Definitely better than "if you get it you get it" but not nearly as good as "The beauty of all-wheel drive". Was there any need to change a slogan? BMW does just fine sticking to their "ultimate driving machine"...

kens

I haven't seen the commercials with Lance yet, but I kind of like the "driven by what's inside" slogan. I guess the AWD slogan was getting a little long in the tooth since many other companies offer it.

Ken

ateixeira

Baltimore was cool. Indeed, everyone showed up despite about 9" or so.

I met up with Bob, and then we went and met Dave Sattler (briefly), mike, and Dave (hypov). Mike didn't make it, but he called. Loosh came by a little later, though he couldn't stay for dinner.

'twas cool to see the STi, though some conspiracy theories have it being a fake (we could not find the water sprayer, and the trunk was locked so we couldn't check for the reservoir.

Saw the WRX with the AWP and moonroof, which was sweet, but they said those might not come in the wagon. Saw the debut of the 2004 Outback Sport, too, which was cool.

Thumbs down on the GX470, 'cause the 3rd row seat is a bad joke. I used to love those. Also thumbs down on the FX45, which has almost zero visibility to the rear and sides, it's pitiful. The Cayenne looks even uglier in person, though they had a trailer with a 911 on it that it was pulling. I'll take the back half of that setup, thanks.

-juice

rsholland

I have questions about this gizmo:

&#149; Is it "pure" water? if so, how do you keep it from freezing in the winter?

&#149; It sounds like the driver has to be mindful to replenish the water...

&#149; How do you known when and when not to use it?

&#149; How much do you spray at a time?

For the average STi owner (how about that for an oxymoron?), it sounds confusing to use. I hope they have detailed instructions on how to use this feature.

Bob

lucien2

Yea I'll take it too, thanks, since it wasn't a 911 but a GT2. =8^O

rsholland

Just picked up the new issue of CAR. The cover story is on the new Rolls-Royce, which just debuted at the Detroit show. So I figured, who better to do a write-up on England's premier car, than England's premier car rag; it oughta be a good read...

A few tidbits:

&#149; The new Roller has 31" tires. My old F-150 4x4 had 31x10.5x15 tires, so I guess the R-R tires would work just fine on my old 1/2 ton.

&#149; Stored in the rear door jam is a Teflon-coated umbrella, so that the chauffeur can turn around, open the rear door and raise the umbrella above m'lady's head in one graceful movement.

&#149; Instead of a tach, there is a "Power Reserve" gauge, which at first glance looks like a tach, but is calibrated from 0&#150;100%. It measures the percentage of power you have left under your right foot!

You gotta love the Brits (or is it the Germans?)!

Bob

grahampeters

G'day

From the CAR review, it sounds like yet another lesson in the Germans mistaking gross for good. Somehow, I think they have missed the point. Who needs a car 6'6" wide and more than 20' long. Given Britains crowded roads, I can't see it being a big seller.

Cheers

Graham

paisan

Along with bob's questions I'd like to know how the HP is rated, is it 300/300 w/spray or w/o spray? And if it's with spray, what is it w/o spray, cause I know I'll be lazy and not re-fill it!

-mike

hypov

I bet someone will come up with a water bottle mod and grin all the way to the bank.

-Dave

bluesubie

IIRC, it really only "needs" to be used at the track or during paisan type driving. :-)

-Dennis
edit: Here's a nasioc thread with some comments from someone that uses one (John Felstead): http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=299676&am- p;referrerid=767

rsholland

True, but the R-R, Maybach, etc., are all about wretched excess, first and foremost. That's the way it's always been with cars in this class.

Bob

rsholland

The next-generation Golf and A3 will spawn a couple of soft-roaders, according to CAR magazine. These vehicles may also offer height-adjustable air suspension and a low-range transfer case. If those items are offered, it would make them the most off-roadable vehicles in this class, besting the Freelander IMO.

Also, Audi's version of the Touareg will be built on a stretched wheelbase, and offer 3rd-row seating.

Bob

rsholland

Still don't know why this couldn't be automated, like other "cooling" functions in the car. Still no answer on the "below freezing" aspect. Are you supposed to mix in any antifreeze into this IC spray tank, for winter use?

Mike, my guess is the IC spray has nothing to do with hp/torque ratings. It's just here to keep it from self-destructing (if it's used properly).

Bob

paisan

Could be but doesn't the sprayers help further cool the intake air? I know guys who put dry-ice on their ICs for drag racing to help further cool the IC.

-mike

ateixeira

In the winter, the air is cool and the intercooler probably doesn't need the spray.

I'm not sure but maybe you just press the button and a certain amount comes out, or do you hold it? It might work like the windshield washer fluid sprayer.

I think the HP ratings depend on ambient temps, so that's probably with fresh room temperature air. Cooler and wet it probably makes more power.

VW is on a roll. A sport/cute based on the A3 and Golf would likely have a tiny rear seat. They have to package it carefully. The Freelander is pricey for its size, I bet the VW will be too.

So the Audi gets a stretch? That's good, because I don't see how a 3rd row would fit the Touareg.

-juice

rsholland

if you have water in the IC spray tank, it will freeze in the winter.

I think a Golf-based SUV will be at least as roomy as the Forester, if not more so.

Bob

ateixeira

Sure it'll freeze, but so what if it's not needed?

-juice

rsholland

it could crack, due to expansion. Besides, even if it is winter, if you're driving hard, perhaps you may(?) need it.

Sounds kind of "Mickey Mouse" to me...

Bob

ateixeira

But STi owners will have heated garages. If they race on the track they'll have tire warmers, so maybe they could grab an extra one for the IC water container. ;-)

-juice

rsholland

paisan

Is that some kind of coolant will have to be added, but not alchol IMHO.

-mike

ateixeira

That's what I'm thinking. You don't want to pour chemicals on top of the IC, which will then spill down onto the engine. Imagine the stench.

And forget the tank itself, what'll freeze first are the water lines from the tank to the IC sprayer.

-juice

rsholland

have a driver-controlled IC sprayer, like the STi? I don't know of any, but I could be wrong.

Even if owners have a heated garage (some may, some may not), if you drive to work. and park in a un-heated garage or lot, that IC line/tank will freeze. That may or may not be a problem, especially after repeated freeze/thaw cycles during the course of the winter.

I just see it as a potential "trouble spot."

Bob

paisan

EVO has the same thing.

-mike

ateixeira

That's the sort of thing Subaru is sweating right now, Bob. The tank has to be weather proof.

-juice

kens

Well, Subaru was testing the STi in Alaska so they're probably checking that sort of thing out.

On a different note, all my Edmund's Town Hall pages display in a LARGE font. Anyone else experiencing this?

Ken

jfl

WWII Mustangs used Methanol/Water injection for a burst of speed to get out of tight situations. I'm unsure as to where this solution was injected, but the combination would serve as an antifreeze.

However, I cannot see the AVERAGE owner remembering to keep it filled with water let alone a methanol/water mixture. (My window washer bottle ran out last week! But I checked everything else...!)

Does humid air yield more power due to expansion of the water vapor in addition to the gas? I do recall that air is densest at 4 degrees C and theoretically yields the most power at that temp.

Jim

ateixeira

Fonts look normal to me.

Good memory, they must have been cold weather testing.

-juice

armac13

WATER is densest at 4 degrees C, not air. Air will continue to get denser until it reaches a liquid state.
:-)

Ross

nygreg

how big the tank is and how much "liquid power" you use. If your the type to buy a car like that, you will probably be pretty good keeping the tank full. After all, you don't want to be sitting at a light with some ____ (enter what you want) trying to pass you and you know you tank is empty.

Greg

ateixeira

I figure you'd add water about as often as you add windshield washer fluid. I bet many people use the same stuff for both, regardless of what Subaru instructs them to do.

I mean, how many people actually RTFM?

-juice

bluesubie

You can find more discussions on IC spray by searching on http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/

I found this link when I did a search there:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527&P=1

-Dennis

nygreg

me. Time to review the manual again. I find if I do this every so often, I find something I missed before.

Greg

ateixeira

I browsed mine and found 7 things of interest, so I jotted down notes about those 7 things.

We are one in a thousand that actually do, probably.

-juice

fibber2

I haven't been paying much attention to this discusssion, so sorry if this comes in from left field... Are we spraying water on the outside of the heat exchanger to help remove heat, or are we spraying water in with the intake charge itself?

Both have a positive effect:

Home A/C units used to remove their condensed water down a drain hose. The best EER was about 6.5-7.0. Then someone got the idea of plugging up the drain and allowing the fan blade to throw that pooled water onto the condensor. EERs jumped about 2 points to 9+ just with that simple change to evaporative cooling.

I remember carburator water injection schemes written up in Popular Science around 1980. In fact, their PS's test car was the same as mine - a '79 Ford Fiesta. The water added power while reducing the tendency towards pinging under spirited driving. Theory was that the water did some cooling, the water mist entered the combustion process (decomposed to hydrogen and oxygen) promoting cleaner burn, and helped to stabilize long chain gasoline molecules to retard pre-ignition. They used an electric driven pump and small air filter mounted spray head, somehow keyed to throttle position with a manual overide.

Steve

hammersley

I at least have to RTM every fall & spring to refresh my memory on wheel torque specs... I rotate snow tires on/off 4 different cars in the family, and they're all different. Same thing with oil change quantities. I usually end up browsing other parts that catch my eye at the time.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

Steve: it's outside, on the surface of the intercooler.

-juice