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Subaru Crew Cafe

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    jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    An uncle of mine just bought an Avalanche. Why, I'm not sure. He's a teacher thats retiring this year(age 57). Feels he needs a truck to go up to the cabin every weekend. I think the Baja would have been a better fit. I haven't seen it or riden in it yet.
    Now it would fit my needs a bit more, with three kids (6 mon, 3 and 5) plus the need to tow a camper. But I'm leaning towards a Tahoe or Trailblazer since my wife will end up driving it the most and carting the kids around. (smaller/eisier to park?)

    --jay
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?news/ae_news_story.php?id=33615
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    fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    For 10 years we were a two vehicle family, one of them being a Ford F-150 Custom (with the hose-out vinyl/rubber mat interior). We were restoring an 1880's farmhouse, plus we made side money doing wood crafts and doing the craft show circuit.

    Last year I rented an F-150 SuperCab with the suicide rear doors while my car was in the shop. Amazing how trucks have changed! Too nice an interior to be called a truck.... I just cannot see driving that much bulk daily unless you have a serious need for it. Today a wagon, a minivan and a utility trailer meet our needs just fine for whatever we need to haul.

    On the subject of diesels, my nephew is on his second Dodge diesel truck. He is a landscaper, and wouldn't consider doing the Catskill mts with his big trailer with a gas engine. Those diesels have more torque at idle than many of the medium blocks have at 2k rpm!

    Steve
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    fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    my Ford had the famed twin I-beam front suspension, which suffered from unusually severe positive camber unless heavily loaded in the front of the bed. Tire wear was excessive. Some owners actually torched the long beam arms to bend them to a more neutral position.

    Steve
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Going back and reading my post I see a massive mangling of the English language:

    "Crew cab pickups were a hybrid between the two: work trucks with space for additional passengers. I can only picture them being driven by construction crews or railroad employees - the latter sometimes outfitted with train wheels so that they could ride the rails as well as the roads."

    Read literally it looks like I meant that the employees had the train wheels attached to them. Not the case - it was the crew cab trucks. Sometimes I still see them today in Conrail or CSX livery. As a child I saw them with Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Air Line and the merged Seaboard Coast Line livery.

    Ed

    PS: Oh yeah, my dad had Ford pickups with the horrible tire-eating Twin-I-Beam until one of them had a leaky cowl that Ford couldn't fix. He switched to Chevrolets and hasn't looked back. He bought an '03 recently to replace a '99 - a very luxurious truck but GM has replaced what was a reasonably handsome front clip with the hideous Avalanche front clip. Aesthetically IMO the '62-68 IHs, '49-56 Studebakers and '63-66 Chevys are the best looking pickups of all time. I am biased toward the independents. We can look back to the '55 Chevy Cameo as the starting point for the personal use truck movement.
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    fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I knew what you meant! Being a railroad fan (model and real), I always got a kick out of the trucks with the railroad conversion capability (4' 10.5" std gauge). Always wondered what those flanges would do to blacktop!!

    Steve
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Okay, as far as SUVs and pickups are concerned we now have two schools of thought, and both being 180º apart from one another:

    1) Traditional truck-based vehicles, with 2-speed transfer cases, solid axles, and technology just south of being Neanderthal. Some feel these will soon disappear, also much like the Neanderthal. I'm not one of them, however.

    and...

    2) Newly conceived car-based vehicles, with IRS and AWD, that combine car-like driving, but are barely capable of getting their nose dirty. These are currently all the rage, but do they have staying power? I think so, but I also think there's room for a third group being...

    3) A combination of the above two groups. You know it's going to happen—it's just a question of when. Those are the vehicles that for me, most likely will have the most appeal.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Well, my choice is AWD, which is why I spend so much time in the Subie forums.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5707

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My friend with the Avalanche has 2 kids, lives in the suburbs, works with computers. His last truck was a 2 door Chevy Blazer, so he probably would have bought a Tahoe anyway. Still, he likes it, and he's the Home Depot Harry Homeowner type, so he'll actually use the switchback.

    Bob: I think there already are a bunch of #3 types. The ML320 and Touareg might fit that description. Modern, but with low ranges and traditional capabilities.

    Now, let's see one in the $20k price range. Tweak the Forester and it could be the first.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Bob: I think there already are a bunch of #3 types. The ML320 and Touareg might fit that description. Modern, but with low ranges and traditional capabilities.

    Now, let's see one in the $20k price range. Tweak the Forester and it could be the first. >>

    I'm just hoping to see more, and as you say, more affordable models.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Bob: I think there already are a bunch of #3 types. The ML320 and Touareg might fit that description. Modern, but with low ranges and traditional capabilities.

    Now, let's see one in the $20k price range. Tweak the Forester and it could be the first. >>

    I'm just hoping to see more, and as you say, more affordable models. Haven't seen any pickups that fall into that category yet, however.

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This guy is from Austria, and recently test drove a new V10 diesel Touareg.

    tbreth "VW Touareg SUV (SUVs Board)" Jan 24, 2003 3:31am

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Doesn't the new TSX seem a little redundant with the TL? Even the price will overlap. And it's not like the Lexus ES and IS, because the TL offers a sporty Type S model. Seems like most buyers would get more space and a V6 in the TL. Plus they didn't bring the wagon over. There's room below the MDX for one.

    Reminds me of the Vigor, remember?

    The BMW 3's changes are so subtle you have to wonder if it was even worth it.

    760Li still look hump-backed and ugly.

    Isuzu did a nice job with the Colorado. I'd prefer rounded off flares, but the exterior look certainly works, maybe better than on the big pickups. The interior looks better than most of GM's too, less plasticky and no grey buttons. The rear door looks not quite full size, sort of reminds me of the Ram.

    Equinox looks cute, except from the front, but just 185hp from 3.4l? That's the old minivan engine. They can do better than that coarse, underpowered mill.

    Notice the Malibu's outside stole some crease lines from the Forester? The inside is pure rental-car though. Same weird steering wheel as the Equinox.

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ford nailed the F150. Looks great. Even the regular cab has 4 doors? Plus it gets the HD look and an interior like the Expedition's, which I like.

    The Bionic Cheetah is ugly, it's that D-pillar. The Murano is so much more stylish, it's almost embarassing. Still, the FX45 in C&D tests outperformed the X5 and ML AMG for less cash. Plus I read it's RWD or AWD, not FWD, and I read it gets 20" rims! But why is the G35 coupe so gorgeous while the G35 sedan and this are ugly ducklings?

    The RX330 looks handsome, but the shape isn't squared off enough so I heard it actually loses cargo space with the seats up. Still, more power and torque, and the VC is gone - they let the traction and stability control systems distribute the AWD power, sort of like the ML320. Air suspension, too, interesting. I bet these sell like crazy once again.

    The E320 wagon looks nice, more stylish than the previous wagon. Still, it could be squared off a bit more to be more practical, though it looks better than the C-class wagon. For the price it needs to offer it all.

    Remember that LA Law episode with the SLs? Bring LA Law back for an encore.

    That Endeaver's nose it UG-LEE! Mitsu really takes the cake on overdone nostrils. The side flares are beefy but that means the cabin is more narrow than it needs to be. Looks like a good sized ute otherwise. 215hp is good for this segment, they'd better watch prices though.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't really like the Maxima. They haven't got one rear end right in 4 generations. The grille looks ugly too. The Altima is better styled by far, and the G35 is RWD and about the same price, so the Maxima seems redundant to me.

    The Quest looks interesting, fold flat 2nd and 3rd rows? Still looks small though. Power is good. I'll have to check it out.

    The nose on the Titan is ugly, but that's about my only complaint. Looks interesting.

    RR Phanton is updated about as well as it could be. Nice job making it look traditional yet modern.

    Love the new WRX, though it should get a 3 spoke steering wheel, like the STi. The STi is perfect, and yes, even with the gold wheels and huge spoiler and scoop.

    The Sienna looks solid, though the cabin doesn't look particularly wide, and the fold flat seats don't quite fold flat, they appear to stick out an inch or so. Still, with AWD and a split folding 3rd row, it should lead the class. Do the windows open like the MPV's, though?

    The New Beetle Cabrio is adorable, I can just see my daughter wanting one in 13 years. But VW just has to dump that 2.slow engine, and offer the 20 valve 1.8 (non T, in 125hp guise) from overseas as the base engine. Or just the 1.8T.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is smaller than the TL. I know it's the Euro-Accord, but that is smaller than our Accord.

    Bob
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    bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Both the new quest and the new sienna are significantly upsized - width is nearly 78", length > 200"

    Nothing small about either of them. Well over 4000#'s and 200hp too. Sienna offers optional AWD.

    Too big for my tastes, but that's what this market demands.

    Mini-vans are clearly going not so mini. The only "small" (read mid-sized) mini's left are the MPV and the DC Caravan.

    -brianV
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    like jumbo shrimp, is an oxymoron.

    Bob
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    erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Blue STi and a 04 silver WRX wagon (and sedan) were there. No 03 WRX's at the show. The wagon had the gunmetal color alloys (an option?) with 45 series tires. Very cool looking. Must convince wife we need silver WRX wagon!

    Interesting to see what was popular and what was not. Lots of interest in the Mini, ugly Porsche Cayenne, behemoth Hummer H2, Honda Element. Totally dead at the Oldsmobile and Saab displays. I really liked the Infiniti G35 coupe, Mini, and suprisingly the Jeep Liberty. The wing on the STi isn't so bad in person. The bright yellow Evo at the show would attract a lot more attention from our local law enforcement.

    I wish the Auto Show happened more than once a year. Next year I won't forget the digital camera.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not your average soccer mom Volvo!

    http://www.dakar2003.nu/

    This Volvo was enter in this years Dakar race. It has portal axles* from the Volvo C-303 truck, as well as other running gear.

    * = For those who don't know what portal axles are: They are any axle that, at the very end of the axle where it meets the wheel, there is a portal drop box (which contains a gear) which moves the hub and wheel centerline below the axle tube. The net effect is that you get MUCH more ground clearance. Portal axles can be had on IFS/IRS (Hummer H1, some Pinzgauers) or with solid axles (Unimog, Volvo C-303/C-306/C-308). This Dakar race Volvo has a solid portal axle.

    I found this info in the latest issue of Petersen's 4Wheel & Off-Road magazine, which has a great article on portal axles.

    Here's another link with some interesting off-roaders not often seen in the USA.

    http://www.real4x4.com/

    Hmmm... Can you imagine a Forester or a Baja with a portal IFS/IRS setup?!?!

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.carmode.net/webrensai/subarumag/aste.html
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    I can't seat inside something red and yellow.
    Can't concentrate.

    -Dave
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=42394
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, kudos to the designers of those "mini" vans for making them look small, even though they're big.

    In comparison, the slab-sided Odyssey looks huge.

    Love that Volvo. You could get your annoying friends to stop calling it a station wagon, LOL.

    That chopped WRX should've been made into a coupe. Chopping was about making tall cars look cool, and that doesn't really look cool. It should have just 2 doors.

    I've seen kits that make current Jeeps look like that. The bed doesn't seem very big. I liked the Dakar concept better, but the Liberty got watered down from it.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    to replace "The Beauty of All Wheel Drive," and to be pitched by none other than Lance Armstrong!

    I love it! What a perfect fit, and what a great idea for a new advertising campaign!

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31- 0248

    Bob
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    yellowbikedon1yellowbikedon1 Member Posts: 94
    Looks as if Subaru has a winner with Lance Armstrong! Now, if we Subaru owners can get Subaru to put on a clinic for us with Lance doing the teaching, that would really be something.

    Don
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Much better than "When you get it, you get it", which sounds totally redundant.

    Lance will be a good spokesperson, and I seem to find more bikes on top of Subies than anything.

    Now, let's refine what's inside and offer VTD and shiftronic along with turbos on every model...

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31- 0764
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    "twin-turbo supercharger setup"

    Where can I get me one of those!?

    Actually, he's wrong, the ST-X only had a single supercharger, no turbos.

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hmm, fitzmall has two Baja automatics for $20,698, more than a grand below invoice.

    Either they added a dealer incentive, or the Sport models have started to trickle in.

    If it's an incentive, then the Sport models could end up costing well below $20 grand. Heck, delete just the automatic and they'd already be below $20 grand.

    -juice
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    nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I really like the idea. I think it will help Subaru. Wonder if a bike manufacturer will join the fray (Gary Fisher).

    Greg
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    What an awesome spokesman he'd make! Who else read the Sports Illustrated Athlete of the Year article on him?

    Don- It'd be a fantasy come true to meet him and go on a bike ride but I'm afraid I'd be too intimidated (which isn't easy to do).

    -Frank P.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell you what, if he rode uphill and I rode down that same hill, we could cover the same ground in about the same time. Maybe high-five in the middle somewhere. :-)

    -juice
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "if he rode uphill and I rode down that same hill, we could cover the same ground in about the same time"

    I don't know Juice... It'd have to be a pretty steep hill :(o)

    -Frank P.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    AutoWeek and Automobile magazine, in the current issue, have big write-ups on the new EVO.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Poor Mitsubishi, you almost feel pity for them. They greatly underestimated the STi. :-)

    Frank: it would have to be a cliff!

    -juice
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Yea but the mags are still all "WRX Slayer!" etc. Autoweek called it a pocket rocket (!!! WHAT? a $30k sedan? I don't think so)that will be the cutting edge for its class. It's as if the entire trade just up and forgot the STi even exists.
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    As a student of english and a champion of proper, succinct, well-crafted writing, I have noticed a distinct decline in the quality of Autoweek over the last 24 months. Mostly since Leon passed away. Anyone else notice it? A lot more passive voice, wordiness, diluted arguments, etc. Combined with a marked decline in wit and humor, it is becoming a very dull read.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They may not have known about the STi when the articles were written. Autoweek might have, but not Automobile. The lead time for articles is quite long.

    The best writer left at Autoweek is Denise McCluggage, and I often disagree with her lately.

    -juice
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I bet Mitsubishi ponied up more greenbacks in advertising revenue than SOA for those magazines. Therefore the EVO is better in their mind.

    -mike
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    lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    March '03 issue. Haven't gotten to it yet, only through Peter Egan's column.

    Ed
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They do have a new product onslaught, I'm just not sure those products are so good.

    The Outlander just came out, and now the Endeaver is coming, plus the EVO. But they're not offering anything new, really.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    was mentioned in Automobile, as were all the new vehicles from Detroit. That's a pretty darn quick turnaround. The show was, what, 3 weeks ago, and Automobile has already gotten coverage on the show!?!?

    Bob
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    wrxsoon1wrxsoon1 Member Posts: 158
    Will be really good for Subaru. Maybe Lance is person getting them to bring over the STi and the new 2.5T Legacy's, I know he likes to drive fast! ;-) LOL!

    I actually got to race against Lance in '98 at the Cascade Classic in Bend, OR. Actually, it was more like we raced the same race for the first few miles but as soon as it went uphill we were in different races! LOL! He was still coming back from cancer but I couldn't tell. IIRC 1998 was the year he finished 4th in the Vuelta Espana as well as 4th at the World Championships. Boy, was that a sign of things to come!

    BTW, this has cemented my decision to by a Subaru. After all, gotta help 'em pay that $12M. ;-)

    -Ian
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Wait until next month. They will all say "EVO killer STi!" :-)

    -Dennis
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    so far seem pretty accurate. They say it's better than the the WRX, but probably not as good as the STi. That's no surprise, and shouldn't offend anyone, especially since it's priced to fall in between those two models.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: my guess is those in the press knew a couple of days before we did, maybe they got a preview.

    The write up in Autoweek included a lot of track time, they loved it. I think the front end looks a little like Lutz' "Angry Kitchen Appliances", and I don't like the interior dash much. I think the Impreza is a much better basis to build upon.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Automobile had actual shots from the Detroit show.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They were quick, then.

    -juice
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    EVO falls firmly between the WRX and the STi.

    More HP than the WRX, but none of the good traction items of the STi or the True EVO, nor the 6-speed.

    -mike
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