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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    I would love to see more WRC exposure here in the States. Speaking of which...

    If WRC "does" become more popular, do you think the "big boys" (Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, etc.) would field factory teams in the future? And if so, how does Subaru respond? It seems last year, and this year too, the WRC competition has gotten tougher, and/or Subaru WRC racers have gotten worse.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If Peugeot comes back, it would make sense to come with the rally car angle. They certainly don't want to bring back memories of their failure in this market. They can't compete in the mainstream, either.

    I think it's time for Subaru to phase out the regular auto AWD and use VTD in all the automatics. Maybe shiftronic too. OK, maybe not shiftronic in the Impreza TS and Legacy L, but VTD yes.

    Remember that survey here on Edmunds? Subaru was asking if people felt their AWD system was better than others, but the question is so ambiguous - which one? Auto? VC? VTD? With or without the rear LSD? With or without VDC?

    Time to standardize a little. Go with the best (VTD) and keep variations simple (TC/SC).

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Though FoMoCo's latest crop of ads featuring Bill really gall me, I think it'd be good for them as well. Just my opinion - and not an educated one - but I think Ford's excessive reliance on SUVs and light trucks as revenue source will bite them in the rear before long. They should focus on the Focus, improving the Taurus and reintroducing the Mondeo (known to us as Contour) in this market.

    Ed
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I thought someone mentioned that Subaru plans to make all their AT vehicles VTD in the near future. My wish is that they apply VTD to MT vehicles as well.

    Ken
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    They seem to be doing just fine with their SUVs they are sticking with what the consumers want. The only reason for the focus to be sold is to help their CAFE ratings. A focus AWD would be cool but WRC isn't gonna get popular nationwide IMHO.

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    You don't think so, Mike? Are we not seeing a backlash away from traditional SUVs and toward wagons and smaller "crossover" vehicles?

    As for the potential of WRC's popularity, I think the only things keeping it down are (1) lack of a US model to "pull for" (2) lack of a US driver/co-driver to "pull for" (3) cars race against the clock instead of each other (except on super-special stages). In my mind WRC looks an awful lot like the kind of driving that led to the creation of NASCAR; not "36 white guys turning left" but guys driving wfo over back roads and a wide variety of surfaces. Still there are lot of people who won't admit it but who watch races in the hope of seeing a crash. WRC cars don't often crash into each other but when they do crash the accidents are often spectacular. That alone may satisfy the American bloodlust.

    Oh yeah - the WRC numbers are uniform in size, color and location which allows more surface area of the cars to be turned into rolling billboards than on stock cars.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Nascar is still based on "muscle cars" v8 RWD, beer, and the tracks are in the deep south. The big 3 have so much invested in NASCAR that they wouldn't want to change it around. NASCAR also lends itself to camera crews and what not.

    It is amazing that the most popular sport in the US is based on running illegal items away from the police. Gots to go git me som moonshine I reckon! ;)

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Are more popular now, but the Fords are cleaning up pretty well in those areas as well. It's amazing what an enormous dealer network will do for you to get sales. I've been following the Trailblazer board on here and it's funny to hear them complain about the poor build quality but yet rave about thier vehicles. Kinda like a druggie who knows it is bad for him but keeps using the drugs! :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    Hmmm... Can you image what those old moonshine runners from the 1940's could have done with a WRX on those old Georgia and North Carolina dirt back roads, instead of an old flat-head Ford?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ed: did Ford product planning call you and ask you for ideas? Mondeo is coming back as a Mercury. Ford is re-doing the Taurus and will have a sport wagon based on that, built at the same plant, even.

    Ford has a full line of cars and IMO don't rely quite as much on trucks as GM does. For example, they already have the Taurus wagon and Focus wagon and ZX5.

    I don't think Ford needs a Lutz. They have SVT, and 5/10 of the top 10 sellers. OK, Mercury needs a Lutz, definitely. So if you mean FoMoCo overall, I'd agree.

    Ford division just needs to tighten quality. They readily admit the Focus and Escape launches were botched, yet both sell well. Escape is in the top three, and Focus sells to younger buyers than the Escort did, and with fewer incentives.

    Lutz does not bring quality - in fact in a way he cuts costs in non-engineering areas that could make it worse.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Bob: Never mind what a moonshine runner could do, I know from experience what I can do with a Forester or OB on old North and South Carolina dirt back roads!

    mike: NASCAR popularity has ranged far away from its Deep South roots. There are tracks in New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Texas, Delaware, and California to name a few. NASCAR has even run at Watkins Glen, an entertaining venue for them. An increasing number of its drivers hail from places outside the Deep South. I pass enough vehicles with NASCAR stickers on them in PA and NJ to let me know that it's not strictly a Southern domain anymore.

    Though it's kind of an apples-to-oranges comparison, I know the drivetrain layout of our Subarus is much closer to that of their WRC counterparts than the drivetrains of any Taurus, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo or Intrepid are to their NASCAR counterparts. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" would seem to apply to Subaru moreso than to the Big Three.

    juice: Ford hasn't called me for anything - if they want to track down a nice '66 Mustang like my old one and give it to me, fine, but that's it. I missed the info on the Mondeo as Mercury.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Yes it has expanded. Every bar outside an urban area has Nascar pools and those dumba$$ numbers on their cars. And I do agree that the WRC cars are more like subies than the Nascar ones ever will be but americans for the most part aren't too intellectual (and I can't even spell it!) and basically will buy whatever the local Ford/GM/Dodge dealer pedals to them. The big 3 will cut as many corners as they can til the sales stop coming in.

    With the networks so entrenched in advertising with Nascar, they will likely not try to embrace other motorsports that would involve more $ outlay.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    you saw a RWD Taurus or Intrepid. So much for being a "Stock" Car...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    ...or tube framed? or V8 powered?

    OK, the SHO was for a while, but even that was a Yamaha powertrain, not Ford.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The V8 SHO wasn't a yamaha actually. Hence it's quick demise! :)

    I like watching the IROC races since they all get the same cars it really pits skill v. skill :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Didn't it have Yamaha heads and tuning? I think it was hard of the modular V8 family (Ford), but Yamaha tuned. Maybe that was just the original SHO.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    When they went to the last generation SHO with the V8 it went to all FORD and that's probably why it died out! The Originals were all Yamaha :)

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    IROC was better the first year with the Porsche Carreras than with the Camaros (and Dodge Daytonas maybe? I lost interest) they used later. Of course then Porsche didn't run out and sell "IROC-RSR"s, did they?

    NASCAR would be much more entertaining if they had to run at least one event a year on dirt or beach sand, like they did in the beginning.

    Ed
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    First, thanks for the birthday wishes. When I was a little kid, I would look in the mirror to see if I was taller. Now I look in the mirror to see how much more grey hair has developed!

    OK, yesterday I commented about the increase in crossover vehicles at the show and what it would mean to Subaru in the future. I oversimplified the solution (more HP and gears), but you know what I mean. They had a formula that kept them unique for years. But the rest of autodom has come to understand, and wants in on this growing 'nitch'. As volumes grow, the nitch becomes mainstream. Subaru needs to grow and develop the product, or risk becoming an also-ran.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    AN says the face lifted Legacy arrives in July? That would be pretty early.

    The 2003 Impreza comes in August, and the Baja in September.

    Also - the Outlander has just 140hp, but torque isn't bad at 157ft-lbs at a low 2500rpm, where it's useful. It also gets a tiptronic 4 speed auto (Santa Fe also does so it's not the first).

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Posts: 476
    Wouldn't it help Subaru to put out a larger vehicle? Something the size of a Volvo wagon? I don't know the size cutoffs for sure, but the Impreza is probably a subcompact and the Legacy/OB no more than a compact. A bigger Subie would bring attention to the brand and bring in shoppers who need or think they need more room than anything in the line now offers.

    For sure, Subaru has to keep AWD and keep ALL cars toward the higher end on content and quality (going cheap would be suicidal).
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    << When I was a little kid, I would look in the mirror to see if I was taller. Now I look in the mirror to see how much more gray hair has developed! >>

    A slight variation on the above:

    1) Instead of seeing how tall, I now check to see how wide... and

    2) Instead of checking for gray hair, I just check for hair, period...

    :)

    Bob
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    LOL! No kidding - developing those problems as well....

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    This months (May) Motor Trend has a long term wrapup on their 2000 OBW. I just summarized some of it on the Legacy/OB Station Wagon board.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'd like to see a stretch Legacy. My wife feels the Legacy is a bit small. She doesn't want a limo, just a 4-6" stretch.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    On a DSL connection it takes 45-60 seconds to navigate from page to page. I know I'm not paying for this service but it's become very user-unfriendly.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Maybe it's your DSL? Seems to be slightly slow for me but not insanely slow.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    slower than normal here at work, pages & images load about as slow as a 50k modem connection. at home, pages & images load fine.

    Work: 2 T1 connections shared by entire building and remote plants
    Home: RR Cable Modem (~1900 down).

    I figured it was just my connection here at work since even our network connections and email are slower than normal too.

    Karen did say somewhere that they're doing some modding that could be affecting the TH site.

    -Brian
  • hypovhypov Posts: 3,068
    everyone else at work are on, sometimes as much as 2 mins. page to page. :D

    Brian-
    I see you've made an appearance on the 'Drive' mag. as well as 'Kathryne'(if I spelled her name right). I believe she made an appearance here at the board about her Subaru experience.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You did? Cool, I'll have to check it out. I was in Drive a couple of years ago, with my daughter and Sandy in the background.

    -juice
  • storytellerstoryteller Posts: 476
    This is terrible. I've had the software hang on me this afternoon until I had to flush out of my internet browser and come back in again. I think Karen mentioned Edmunds is aware of a problem and is working on a fix. I have the fastest cable modem connection on the market. The slowness is coming from the software and/or the Edmunds servers. FWIW I can come here at night when traffic is low and skip around without any delays at all, so it seems related to the volume of users.
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Just posted that in MTM. Page 3, in the Write-To-Us section. Sent a picture, but that must have been edited out. :(

    -Brian
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    I had a problem posting a message earlier today but AFAIK reading messages here has been the usual speed.

    (I resubmitted my post about 5 minutes after the first try, no problem.)

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    has updated and redesigned their "English" site. It now has the new '03 Forester. The Subies shown here I believe are Euro-spec models.

    Also, of interest, they show an 2.0 Impreza GX wagon with a small moonroof. They also mention&#151;and this is a mistake&#151;that the Forester turbo is a 2.5, and gets a dual-range 5-speed.

    Bob

    http://www.subaru-global.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That would not be a mistake, that would be SCHWEET! Please, pretty please! ;-)

    They describe the soft dash material as a "dimpled pad". I liked it. I also notice they use English spelling ("realise").

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    Decided to join the 'in crowd' and got a page at WEBSHOTS. My first photo album is a sampling of images I shot at the auto show last week. Mike graciously offered to host them on his page, but I decided it was time I learned to do this myself.


    The originals are 1500x2000 (700k JPEG), but I had to chop them down to size for easy loading. Hope they still look ok to you.


    http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=35303430


    Steve

  • moonkatmoonkat Posts: 265
    Unable to access.

    "A problem has been detected.

    You do not appear to be the owner of this album.
    Make sure you are logged in."
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
  • hypovhypov Posts: 3,068
    ateixeira Apr 10, 2002 6:58am

    I do not thing it is a mistake too :D
    Maybe the spec on the output is. All that turbo-rizing to yield 12 more hp and 15 more torque??!!

    -Dave
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    My work computer has been MIA for the last couple of days. (Don't ask, unless you want to hear a lot of whiney sniveling.) During that time, I've been using the kids' computer with dial-up access. Several co-workers were complaining about slow loading and being timed out. I was zooming around at a whopping 36000 with no problems. Go figure.

    KarenS
    Host
    Owners Clubs
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    If you go that page, with the specs on the new Forester, you will see at the top,"2.5XT" is listed. However, if you go down and look where the engine displacement is listed, it says 1995cc for all engines, XT included.

    Bob
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    Welcome to the 'learning curve'. I sent the link to myself and it worked, but was probably fooled by cookies. After reading your posts, I sent it to a friend and saw the failure for myself. So after some fiddling, here is the new link:


    http://community.webshots.com/album/35303430rdZLZd


    Sorry for experimenting on you guys....


    Steve

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Looks good. The Forester cut away shot shows the rear aluminum cross bar, just under the foam padding behind the bumper.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Posts: 3,068
    fibber2 Apr 10, 2002 12:07pm

    experimenting? ick gark tsk tsk what ex ick peri gark ment...

    -ick Dave
  • mrk610mrk610 Posts: 378
    Im not going to get into this discussion .But I have to put my 2cents in . WRC cars are more like the production cars they are based on . The reason NASCAR had to go to the present cars is because the big 3 stopped making rwd cars . Plus more people were buying 4dr family cars so it is just natural that NASCAR went that way . I have been a fan for a very long time . The reason I like racing is because the drivers do it because they like it and its not just for the money . When was the last time there was a strike in the racing world . I feel the other Professional sport stars are only in it for the money and braging rights to how much the make .

    mike
    #28 rules
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    Juice- the original V6 SHO was Yamaha sourced, not the fishbowl rear-glass V8 version.
  • fibber2fibber2 Mid Hudson Valley, NYPosts: 3,785
    I always loved photography, but would not go digital until I felt that the image quality would rival that of our Canon SLR. I picked out the digicam (Olympus 3040z) for my birthday last year, so I just lapped the one year mark. In that time, I have taken and stored on CD some 2000 images. I cannot think of too many other toys in my life that have given me such pure pleasure as this camera!

    Steve
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    I have probably 800+ mb of photos taken (Sony Cybershot DSC-S50), probably most of them since Brooke was born last May. I find I take more photos with my digicam than before, especially since it's easy enough to delete ones you don't want (although I end up keeping some of those too).

    We now have a printer too for making 'hard' albums - of Brooke of course! Sony DPP-SV55, prints 4x6" size. Have also used Imagestation, Kodak, and Shutterfly to have prints made.

    -Brian
  • gotwrxgotwrx Posts: 52
    So I'd like to search the townhall forums here but there is no search button like it says there is in the help. Has this feature been removed or am I missing something obvious?

    Sent the obligatory help email. Got the standard, "your message is important to us but etc..." reply. Thought this might be quicker.

    Thanks,
    Tim
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    The Search is located in blue sidebar to your left. However, as many of the Crew will tell you, it isn't the most effective "search" you'll find on the internet. It's been a long time coming, but I keep hearing that operations is closing in on an improved search.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

    KarenS
    Host
    Owners Clubs
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