Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, I remember being excited about the prospect of the XTerra, also. Then I saw the price, *gawk*! Same here, about $25k even going light on the options.

    Then I drove one and totally lost interest. It drives like a mid 80s pickup at best.

    I saved about $6 grand buying a Forester instead.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are selling in the mid-$20K range. Remember the Land Rover Defender 90? You can't get much more bare-bones than that, and it was well over $40K, as I recall, and that was several years ago when they were still being imported.

    Bare-bones* does not necessarily mean cheap.

    * = My definition of bare-bones is minus all the luxury/comfort goodies. It can still be high-tech, yet bare-bones.

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    ... speaking of overkill ...

    The other day I spotted an "H2 Limo" ... I looked once .. twice ... three times .. I just couldn't believe what I was really seeing ...

    An H2 ... had about 4 extra windows down the side .. but no doubt about what it was .... strange ...

    Of course, this was about a mile from the factory but STILL ... who needs an H2 LIMO???!!!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So by that definition my dad was ordering UN-spec Land Cruisers for his fleet for $25k insured and delivered with a spare parts kit.

    Diesel, manual tranny, vinyl seats, that's what you're talking about. I guess Toyota figures it can profit $2 grand on those, or $8-10 grand on LX470s. Guess which one they'll build?

    Strangely, guess which ones customers demand?

    -juice

    PS I'd love to see that limo go off road! Hilarious.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << I guess Toyota figures it can profit $2 grand on those, or $8-10 grand on LX470s. Guess which one they'll build? >>

    That's why you don't see very many bare-bones anything over here anymore.

    Bob
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    I've got a major limo place near me and I've seen stretch Hummer limos and stretch Excursion limos...really long ones.

    Did you say "who needs one?" LOL! Where does "need" fit in here? ;-)

    Folks want the most over the top limo they can get. It knocks people out to see limos like that...it got your attention, eh? :-)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wish me luck. I'm on "business continuation" duty from now til monday. Have to drive up to albany, and then woodbridge NJ on sat and sunday to image 500+ machines with my group.

    I won't make the chat :(

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I will also not make the chat - going to a hockey game. :)?

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's a really risky market. The problem is you can cheapen the whole brand, and for small profit margins.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've agreed for a long time. The Cougar and Villager were at least unique, if nothing else. But even those were smaller and less powerful than Windstar and Mustang.

    Mercury also doesn't offer a longer warranty or any free service, to appeal to upscale buyers.

    If they truly want to turn it around, skip the pushrod-engined Ford minivan and sedan clones and offer European cars. The Focus ZX3 and ZX5 should have been Mercurys, let Ford sell the sedan and wagon only. Then a Mercury Mondeo, it even rolls off the tongue nicely. Finally, a Mercury Maverick, a euro SUV. All 3 with 4 valve per cylinder DOHC engines.

    Zero overlap with Ford product. Then offer a 5/60 warranty and maybe 2-3 years free service.

    What do you think?

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Mercury needs to disappear. I don't think there's anything Ford can do to resurrect it.

    I think the Japanese have the right approach to brand-building: 2 product lines (Acura/Honda, Lexus/Toyota, Infiniti/Nissan), not 3 (Lincoln/Mercury/Ford). GM has the same problem, only worse. It's a far different world today, than when these brands were created 60&#150;80 years ago.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe. The ZX3 and ZX5 already exist, and the Mondeo is already sold as a Jaguar. A Mercury version might harm Jag sales. Plus those are notoriously unreliable.

    -juice
  • bluesunlionbluesunlion Member Posts: 38
    Will come with leather as part of one of the foo-foo packages. Nissan found out that more females were buying them instead of the original target market so they are foo-ing them up. I personally would rather have the neoprene seat covers as an instant part of the vehicle, but I'm not your average chick either.

    Also, on a side note-When my husband and I were looking for a new vehicle, I drove a forester. It was nice, and had good bells and whistles, and I really wanted the AWD, but it needed more oomph, and more towing capacity(we pull two large PWCs and all the acoutrements to the lake almost every weekend during lake weather) We also carry two greyhounds all over the place.
    So, we bought the Xterra, and have been very happy with it so far. The only thing we would change now is that we wish we would have bought a 4WD manual, instead of a 2WD Auto.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sounds like the Forester turbo arrived just a tad late for you.

    0-60 the Forester is actually quicker, but the V6 in the XTerra has good low end torque and would haul that trailer better.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    trailer rating no higher than current Forester in Canada (info on the SOC Forester XT micro site). I'm assuming the same hold true here.

    Bob
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Juice: Spot on re the Villager - ours celebrated our 8th birthday in February. It's smaller than the average bear, but 8 years ago we only had 1 child :) It sure drives nice - good power, handles crisply, and we've had no major maintenance issues, but it's getting a bit snug in there! I think the market has passed them by now, which will hurt us come trade-in time, but it has served its purpose well.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Thanks for the grins, bob....
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    had an article about 'black boxes' going into NYC taxi cabs this summmer. Also an insurance company offering discounts on a pilot program to private drivers to install them. Crash data will be stored, and other factors sent by telematics to a central repository on an ongoing basis. Every time you exceed the speed limit, BIG BROTHER will know....

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    From that diesel article, "Diesel engine automobiles are popular with European drivers, partly because their carbon dioxide emissions are much lower than those of gasoline engines".

    RRRR! Wrong! Europeans buy them because fuel costs are substantially lower, it has little to do with emissions (from a driver's stand point).

    Bob: bet you're bummin' about that tow rating.

    Steve: it's a slippery slope. The potential for abuse is big, so hopefully they'll pass some privacy laws before implementing those.

    -juice
  • bluesunlionbluesunlion Member Posts: 38
    If the Forester Turbo was available, and had more than 1500-2000 lbs towing cap, we definitely would have bought one. I'm pretty sure I scared the wee-wee out of the salesman on the test drive. =)
    -Rachel

    The next new car we buy is mine, and I'm really hoping for a 2004 WRX. (although the mazda 6 is pretty tempting, even with wrong-wheel drive)
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    The attraction of diesels in europe is partially historic as the price differential in fuel and increased mileage of diesels makes them much cheaper to run. However, they have significant pollution problems, not just with gases but more problematically, particulates. These are small pieces of soot formed from various carbon based compounds. This is the primary component of the smoke you see behind deisels, particularly when thery are not operating at perfect efficiency. These are virtually impossible to filter and are carcinogenic.

    I owned a Merc Diesel for four and a half years. It did a reasonable job of long distance cruising but was unpleasant to drive where acceleration was needed.

    Diesl engines run far better in steady load situations where they can operate within their efficiency band. They are great for locomotive engines and long distance trucks. If you have a long distance commute with little traffic at either end, they are also appropriate. For other uses, it would be more sensible to look at other energy sources which can cope with less even power demands.

    I cannot see why the limited market available for diesels would be sufficient to warrant the development expesnse. This is particulalry so for Subaru where one of the fundamental design characteristics is a flat four, low CofG engine. I can't recall anyone making a flat diesel and imagine the increased stresses involved (compression is typically 20 or 25 to 1 compared to about 10 to 1 for petrol engines and hence everything has to be that much heftier) would make it infeasible.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mazda is having a "Rev it up" driving event in DC this July 26-27, at FedEx Field. They give you a Mazda 6 to pilot around an autocross course, basically, plus some instruction and some other stuff.

    The catch is it costs $39. Most of these events are free (BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, and Edmunds Live were).

    It sounds like fun, though. What do you guys think? I'd love to see Loosh (controlled), paisan (fast), and Hutch (THE CAT!) go at it in identical cars on an autocross course.

    Check it out:

    http://www.mazdarevitup.com/f_home.asp

    That's about the price of a day of autocross, right? Plus they provide the car.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I'm going to try to plan for the June one in Chicago.

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You only get 2 runs and it costs the same as an auto-x. I'd rather spend the $ @ an auto-x.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They provide the car, though.

    How many runs do you usually get in a day of AutoX?

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    6min, 8 generally, plus "fun" runs as well, sometimes we get as many as 10-15 runs in in a day.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    We only get in 4-5. And if you do get fun runs, you pay the entry fee again per set of 4-5.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    We get 6-8 + $1 fun runs :)

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    The area auto-xes are very very popular. 3-4 runs, additional $$ for a fun run IF there is time, since it usually takes the entire day to run all the classes. 150 cars easy. And super-competitive.....we do have a former National Solo II STS champ in our midst....and he ain't always tops every time.

    Juice-
    I'd love to do that. Look like great fun. Should we all sign up? It's the only way to test drive, IMHO. A drivre around the block is NOT a drive around the cones, and I'd pay to wring out a new 6. If there is a manual, anyways.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I always test drive my cars like that. Dealers don't like that but I just say "hey you want to sell it? then you gotta let me drive it"

    -mike
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    to drive like that in "Dealer Alley" in these parts. I wish I could take a couple auto x runs in any car I was considering.
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    Sounds like a business opportunity if you can get around the legalities...
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Don't have a scanner, but today's WSJ at D4 reports that the..."Forester, ..Santa Fe... and Escape, all equipped with side airbags that protect both the head and thorax-performed well. The other small SUV's-...CRV...Element...Wrangler...Freelander... Outlander..VUE...Grand Vitara and... RAV4-all fared poorly. The...Escape w/o...optional side airbag also fared poorly."
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Stopped by the local Mitsubishi dealer this afternoon, and they had two EVOs in stock. They MSRPed around $30K w/moonroof. The dealer stuck a $3+K ADM on them.

    It felt good from the driver's seat. There's definitely more rear legroom than in the WRX. I didn't like the hard plastic on the back of the front Recaro seats, that rear passengers might bang their knees against.

    I was really disappointed in the dealer. They acted as if they could care less about selling this car. The guy I spoke to only had a vague idea as to what this car is really about, and seemed disinterested to boot.

    Bob
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The EVO is the one Mitsu the salesman can't give away with the 0/0/0+rebate program, so he figured it's not worth his bother to try.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Maybe you just don't look 'boy racer' enough any more! A good salesman "qualifies" his prospects, and you may just not have passed his test... :-)

    Steve
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    LOL! Yeah, wasn't wearing my hat, and I didn't dye my hair&#151;what's left, that is...

    ;)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, so I'm neutral but willing, Loosh wants to go, anyone else? Bob? Hutch? Mike?

    DOH! They misspelled Forester again! "Of the 11 small SUVs tested, only two -- the Hyundai Sante Fe and the Subaru Forrester -- offer side air bags as standard equipment."

    His loss, Bob. He was prolly thinking "this geezer has no idea about the benefits of AWD". ;-)

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    A Nissan dealer lost me that way in late '99. I went in to look at an Xterra; the salesman told me I was "too old" for an Xterra (I was 36 at the time) and tried to steer me to the Pathfinder. I steered myself out of the door. I eventually ended up with the Forester and, after having ridden in and driven an Xterra, don't regret pursuing it further.

    I want to reference that old chestnut about selling an old man a young man's car but not vice versa, not sure if it fits here.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << OK, so I'm neutral but willing, Loosh wants to go, anyone else? Bob? Hutch? Mike? >>.

    If it were a freebee, then yes, but not for $30.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    $40 I think.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << I want to reference that old chestnut about selling an old man a young man's car but not vice versa, not sure if it fits here. >>

    It fits.

    Bob
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    My boss sold out the business to a large corporation and remained as a director. As a present to himself, He bought a silver Porsche Boxster. This immediately became known to his family, friends, colleagues, customers and throughout the industry as "Bruce's Penis Substitute". Fortunately blessed with an excellent sense of humour, he happily acknowledges the title arguing that it is only used once a week, on the weekend.

    Perhaps there are cars that older men should not drive.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    couldn't he just have taped a picture to the rear window proving it wasn't true? ;-)
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    <<...arguing that it is only used once a week, on the weekend.>>

    Which? The Porsche, or that most blessed of private parts??? ;-)

    Steve
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    good ones.

    Funny Graham, because my somewhat overbearing Australian neighbor referred to his then-girlfriend's Eclipse sport (2wd no turbo) as a "p3ni$ car" also. I didn't get why, since it was a) his girlfriend's (now wife) and b) the second-lowest performance verison of that car available. They both said it was because it was an impractical sports car and, therefore, a replacement for lack of something else in the original buyer (they bought it used). I tried to respond that it was no such thing, lacking as it did any sports car characteristics except perhaps 16" rims and sport seats. I wasn't getting anywhere so I gave up. SO maybe there is a bias against sports cars in general in Oz?

    :)
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