Subaru Crew Cafe

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Comments

  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I got an overall 21-22 MPG in my 2.5RS with probably 60% hwy use. That car saw redline at least once per day, often more. ;-)

    On the highway it made pretty much claimed MPG when setting the cruise at 70-80 MPH.

    -Colin
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Don't beat me up. I'm just the messenger. I didn't say I believed Toyota on those numbers.

    Greg
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a new "Multivan" which is larger, more powerful, and more upscale than the current Eurovan. One of the engine choices produces 230 HP, which should surely addresses one of the Eurovan's long-standing shortcomings—power, or lack-there-of...

    North America should get it in a year or so.

    http://www.vwvortex.com/

    Bob
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Colin-

    er, yes, I find that my mileage is about the same, with a similar split.. . *cough* heh.

    Ya kow, the more I make the car fun for me, the less hospitable a place it becomes for passengers. Part of the problem of course is the Brullen; I am convinced I got shipped the "medium" instead of the quiet that I ordered. But the convergence of road damage from the 28" snow and my STi/H&R setup can be a punishing combination too. Find an unbroken country backroad though, and it's all worth it!
    :)
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Here I was thinking the revived Microbus would replace the Eurovan. I guess this will be a stopgap in the US? VW used to sell commercial versions of its vans here (panel van Micros, crew-cab and pickup Transporters, e.g.) but I imagine that with its image shift to luxe and retro-cutesy we won't see those here.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It still may. However, I prefer this new version found on VW Vortex. I've never been one for "trendy" things, like their proposed retro-bus.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I put on 250 fun miles between yesterday and today, seeing most of the "fun" roads in the vicinity of Wichita. (this part of Kansas, sadly, is as flat as one might imagine. some parts aren't though as you head east...)

    The beauty of it was all the ripping around we did, I still averaged 45mpg. This is the way, I say. Fortunately no tickets. We saw, uh, rapid speeds at times.

    Hope others had beautiful weather too (70-75 both days here) and got a chance to get out and enjoy. I really needed this after a week and a half of illness plus a co-worker getting canned last Friday and me shouldering the whole load.

    -Colin
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    will be the Eurovan replacement. The vehicle shown on VW Vortex is based on the upcoming a5 Golf platform and is going to be on the mini side of minivan. It is an evolutionary replacement for the Sharan/Alhambra/Galaxy, and is therefore meant to do combat with Scenic, Multipla, and perhaps even A-class, and other euro-MPVs. As I understand it, the new "bus" will, like the beetle, be a US led launch to do battle with this country's larger "mini" van market. Not much mini in them these days, if you ask me.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << The vehicle shown on VW Vortex is based on the upcoming a5 Golf platform and is going to be on the mini side of minivan. >>

    Are we talking about the same vehicle? It said (or words to that effect), that the new Multivan is larger than the Eurovan, with up to 210 HP.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ugh, Bob, could they make it any less stylish? I liked the retro one better.

    -juice
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    later today or tomorrow. I've been tooling around town all last week & this weekend in a Ford F-850 turbodiesel truck with a 16 foot box, collecting, delivering, etc. for our annual school auction Saturday night. Fun to drive in it's own way, but what a hog... makes the Subie feel like I'm wearing it instead of just sitting in it!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cool Paul, glad the auction went well. Your sacrifice paid off, literally.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Ugh, Bob, could they make it any less stylish? I liked the retro one better. >>

    Sorry, I disagree. Vans are about being functional, not style. The Retro-bus is about style, not function.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ford no longer makes an F-850. They make F-650s and F-750s. The F-750 (or larger) requires a CDL to operate.

    If it is an F-850, it must be an older truck.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, Bob, let me be more specific.

    It's way too tall/narrow, out of proportion. The concept was far more squat, yet still roomy.

    A couple of weird things - the driver side mirror is a different shape and size than the passenger one. Odd. Plus the passenger side sliding door has a window within a window.

    I like boxy, but you can do boxy with style, plus decent proportions. That van looks like an Anorexic Seven Footer.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    is first designed to be a commercial hauler over in Europe, much like the Mercedes/Freightliner van that FedEx uses over here. Passenger versions, such as the Multivan, are secondary in terms of manufacturing. The VW van has always been that way. Because of the "chicken tax" we never see the commercial versions over here. I bet in Europe VW sells 3&#150;4 commercial versions to every passenger version.

    I've seen Mercedes cars over here with different size outside mirrors.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure they should even bother marketing those to passenger vehicle buyers.

    I like the Sharan that Loosh mentioned, far better packaging, though it is a lot smaller.

    -juice
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Saw the new Toyota Sienna while I was getting my Miata's oil changed at the local Mazda/Toyota dealer. Fully loaded front-wheel drive XLE. And $$$ premium fuel recommended to boot. Pretty plain looking. It's really too big for my tastes. I wish Mazda's MPV offered an AWD option - it's just the right size for camping.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't realize they'd be in dealers that soon. I'm curious to check one out.

    Bad timing with the premium fuel requirement, with the current already-high prices.

    The front sort of looks like the Prius, doesn't it?

    -juice
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Yeah. It does look a little like the Prius. Very inoffensive styling - typical Toyota. Big on the inside though. Rear folding seat is great - even easier to use than Honda's seat. XLE has the power sliders and rear gate which are not my cup of tea.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    Has been in dealers here for a week.

      Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    has several '04 Siennas listed on their site. None with AWD, and very little in terms of discounting.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    = :) on my face.

    As much as I dislike toyota styling, it does have some good stuff.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    CarsDirect.com is listing the '04 Sienna's at +$2k OVER MSRP, FWD or AWD. Odyssey's are pricing about $1k less than MSRP. On the other hand, Mazda MPV's are pricing around $4k less than MSRP (including a rebate).

    That's for the Chicago area, FWIW. YMMV. ;-)

    -Brian
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Bob: I sit corrected. Was a 650. Bad angle when I read the decal. Still big. Fun for a couple days, but wouldn't want to do it everyday. Fire trucks are much more enjoyable.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I heard a loaded one with AWD will command $37k, which is a little absurd, but it does sort of offer everything you could want for a family.

    MPVs start at less than $20k, it's hard to justify spending twice that no matter how loaded you get.

    I think Toyota built some gravy into that price so they can offer rebates down the road.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Even the top of the line Chrysler T&C AWD tops out at $40k MSRP, but CarsDirect has 'em pricing at $7k less with rebates.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    at a local dealer. Actually they had two in stock, a loaded model and a mid-level LE model. Both were FWD. The loaded model was $37K, and the LE was ~ $28K. The LE trim (second from the bottom) is the lowest trim level in which you can get AWD, and the AWD LE will sticker over $30K!

    The vehicle looks better in person than in photos. I like the profile and the rear. I hate the front.

    I sat in the loaded model, and checked it out fairly closely. It had: power rear liftgate and side doors I believe. It also had DVD, and retractable sunshades for the rear passengers, much like those found on expensive BMWs. AWD Siennas cannot be had with the 8-passenger option! Why? Who knows...

    Overall, a very nice minivan, but way too expensive, IMO. Also, Toyota continues to play the option game with Sienna, which I also hate. I really like the split-fold-away third seat. It really makes the Honda (non-split) third-row folding seat look pretty lame.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    it has roll down side windows, much like the MPV and previous generation Ody's (and the Isuzu equivalent).

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    $40 grand is crazy money for a van. By then you've hit "no excuses" territory even for an SUV.

    Toyota is famous for their nickel-and-dime options strategy. A Highlander can in theory cost as little as $22k, but just try finding one that way (or even wanting a stripped FWD 4 banger).

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    and on top of that, this dealer was adding a $4K ADM to the MSRP!

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You complain about SUVs, how unsafe, high center of gravity, bad gas milage etc. etc. So Toyota makes the ultimate SUV killer: More space, all kinds of gadgets, AWD, decent milage low CG, and you complain that it's almost as expensive as an SUV....

    Go figure.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    $37K ($40K if it's AWD, high-range only) for a FWD minivan&#151;"the ultimate SUV killer."

    Yeah right.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You and I know 99% of people don't use "low range" nor any of the other stuff that SUVs are capable of. Why would a nicely equipped AWD Van not do the trick???

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    you're saying 99% of SUV owners should own a AWD Sienna?

    Guess what Mike, if that happened, there wouldn't be any SUVs around, except used ones for sale.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And that would be fine with me. I'd just buy an old tough one :)

    There will always be specialty applications like the SUVs of the 80s that will be in demand (ranchers, utilities, etc) so there will always be a market for em, just not a HUGE one like there is today.

    Don't you think that the Sienna AWD is a far better choice for Soccer moms and dads driving around in their Exursions????

    -mike

    PS: I'll bet there is more interior space in the sienna too!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << There will always be specialty applications like the SUVs of the 80s that will be in demand (ranchers, utilities, etc) so there will always be a market for em, just not a HUGE one like there is today. >>

    And they'll be twice as expensive as what's available today. All these soccer moms driving SUVs keep the price reasonable.

    Besides, why do you care so much what a soccer mom drives?

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They weren't expensive in the 80s were they? Nope, my Ramcharger was $13K and i wouldn't mind getting another one for around $18K-22K now.

    Why do I care?
    Cause they can't drive worth a darn, they pump up the price of SUVs cause of all the "luxury" features so normal people like me can't afford a FS Pickup or FS SUV w/o getting all the Bling Bling stuff.
    Drive my insurance up cause they smack into poles in parking lots.
    Make my theft insurance higher cause there is now a market for the spare parts.

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I smell the "I hate SUVs, why do you?" topic brewing again.

    Ed
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Dare I say "wagon". Don't remember where the link was but I think it was here on Edmunds one time I read a great comparison using the 7 passenger Explorer, 7 passenger Windstar and 7 passenger Taurus wagon. The gas mileage of the Windstar was only marginally better than the Explorer. The big jump in fuel economy was when you got to the Taurus. If I remember the Taurus slotted between the other two in cargo room. The more things changed the more they stay the same. I think a 7 passenger Outback would be a good idea. Not my cup of tea being childless but that is why there is a WRX wagon. Subaru is the leading seller of wagons. I'm sure they got that by default because Detroit has market the macho SUV image over that of the wagon. But if they want to cover all bases then they need: sport-WRX, econo-TS and OB jr., luxury-Legacy, rugged--OB and finally family hauler--stretched 7 passenger OB or Legacy.

    What do you think?
    TWRX
  • sensei1sensei1 Member Posts: 196
    Saw a Super-stretch Mini Cooper limo in Taiwan, what a novelty.

    Any driver that can't drive worth a darn is dangerous in any vehicle, just compounded a few times over with the size and weight of an SUV.

    In other countries, right-of-way is determined by the size of what you drive. I hope we don't get to that point. ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Most Odysseys are in the mid to high 20 range. They only break 30 when you add a DVD.

    AWD as an option is worth $1750 or so, so I fully expect to be able to get an AWD Sienna for about $32k, DVD and all for $35k. Not $37-40k.

    Honda sort of under priced the Ody to keep demand high, at least that makes dealers happy. Siennas will have to be discounted to sell in volume. Projected sales are way higher than the previous generation.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Has lots more cargo than an explorer and a tarus I would think.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh yeah, I think with the seats removed you can fit a 4'x8' sheet of plywood. In some stretch minivans you can, anyway (Ody, Grand Caravan).

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    twrx: You left one out, the Forester. Critics would say that the Impreza wagons already do everything the Forester does, that the latter is just an Impreza wagon with SUV poseur styling cues. The Forester offers a larger, squarer cargo area and higher ground clearance but again, critics would say the difference is marginal. With the first generation there was enough of a power difference between Forester and Impreza wagons to make a difference for me, but now the TS and OBS have the same powerplant as the Forester X and XS, narrowing the gap even further. The intro of the Forester XT, rated only 17 hp lower than the WRX yet with more torque, muddies the waters even more.

    sensei: I think size is determining right of way here already. I personally would like a bumper sticker that reads "sticker price does not determine right of way."

    Ed
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    "All these soccer moms driving SUVs keep the price reasonable." Uh Bob, I hate to disagree with you but if anything, the popularity of SUVs has driven their prices up. I agree with Mike (Sheesh that was tough to get out), the Sienna is a far more practical choice for the majority of SUV owners and the only reason it won't outsell them 10 to 1 is purely the image factor.

    -Frank P.
  • sensei1sensei1 Member Posts: 196
    There's still some semblace of discipline and courtesy in our average American driver. Most of us still obey traffic lights and STOP signs although stretching the definition of a yellow light and STOP, at times.

    Besides there's plenty of room to swerve on our roads.
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    The Previa bombed here because (1) it was priced too high and (2) the styling was odd to say the least, I do not know if you even got the Previa in the US.

      Cheers Pat.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << Hey Bob Asked for it... >>

    Mike, you never miss an opportunity to take pot shots at soccer moms, or anybody else, who, in your opinion, should be driving something other than an SUV. Maybe it's an image thing on your part...

    << "All these soccer moms driving SUVs keep the price reasonable." Uh Bob, I hate to disagree with you but if anything, the popularity of SUVs has driven their prices up. >>

    My point is that is that because these vehicles sell in large volumes, the prices have been kept down. If SUVs sold in the volumes of say Land Rovers, even a Jeep Liberty would cost $50K. There are plenty of reasonably priced SUVs out there, if you look for them.

    Bob
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