Subaru Crew Cafe

17071737576343

Comments

  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Yeah and if you read through the posts a bit one guy offered a good solution:
    http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=28148.15
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, I think I'll skip my next meal!

    This is an effective diet plan, at least.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Has Hypov let me drive him in the trooper and SVX, but he amazingly let me drive the WRX last night, it needed to clear out the first few 1000 miles of carbon build up ;)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think those are pretty much gone now... :-)

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    the car response felt better after :)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: check out the Volvo VCC concept from Geneva. You can get more detail at Sweedspeed.com if you want.

    The rear seat is cool - you get two buckets with a center console, but a child booster seat folds down from it! Weird but cool.

    The cargo bay is awesome, sliding tracks and a fridge and oven right there. Styling is pretty radical, though a Volvo buddy says it reminds him of the PT from some angles.

    The Ferrari 360 was a step down in stlying from the 355. The twin grille opening just isn't as nice.

    The Gallardo came out cute, I like it. The rear reminds me a little too much of the MR2, but that's it. AWD and 500hp, but it'll be 3 times the price of the B11S, which should offer similar performance (!).

    Look at the CL65 AMG and then look at the Audi Nuvolari - did Audi copy that green house or what? Especially the C-pillar. Shame on Audi, they used to pioneer, now they follow? I don't even think the C-pillar looks good. It looks like a hard top on a convertible.

    -juice
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    all the talk about driver licensing ... no one at all bit on the 'parent licensing' ....
    does no one else think it a bit weird that we can just have children and not have one bit of any kind of idea about what to do with them .. but can't drive a car without having a state issued license???
    lol
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Sounds like somebody would be right at home in China...

    There's this funny little document you might want to check out, it's called the Bill of Rights.

    While I support the natural right of a child to have good parenting, the subject is just a tad more complex than a bumper sticker that reads: "Can't Feed 'Em? Don't Breed 'Em!"
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's because you're never truly ready to have a kid. You learn "on the job".

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Well Brenda, I think an 'Owner's Manual' has got to be established first. ;-)

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But we all know noone ever RTFMs, so even that wouldn't help!

    -juice
  • outback_97outback_97 Member Posts: 130
    Ouch. Didn't see that coming. Take the hood scoop and spoiler off a WRX and it looks like a Pinto? I guess I don't see it that way, but o.k.

    http://www.zztrailer.com/outback/tsvspos.jpg

    (Defending the underappreciated TS)

    utahsteve
  • jthorsenjthorsen Member Posts: 39
    Juice - From what I've seen in the pictures I think I will like the 04's much better, but I'm reserving judgement until I can see one in person.
    Now if the WRX looked like the P5 I'd have bought one long ago!

    Licensing - if we're going to talk about different licensing requirements, then don't forget those older drivers who may have diminished skills. I still remember 78 year old "Woody" introducing the boat he was driving to the drivers side of my car a few years ago. He claimed he just did not see the redlight OR my car in the intersection in front of him. Luckily he wasn't moving very fast so the damage was only to my car and not me. I'm not promoting age discrimination but it's a fact that physical skills diminish with age, so there needs to be some kind of retesting process (IMO). Do any states do this?

    Jon
  • jthorsenjthorsen Member Posts: 39
    LOL, I figured I'd rumple some feathers with that comment...to be honest I don't know why I have that association, but that's what pops into my head whenever I see one. I'm not saying it's rational...it's just like one of those ink blot experiments psychologists do I guess, people see different things.

    The TS is definitely a great value though, I won't argue that.

    Jon
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    About parent liscenscing because this is not a child-parent site. This is a car site.

    -mike
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    I suppose it's ok to talk about war and politics .... on a car site ..
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well they are kinda current events. By all means chat up child parenting if you want, don't let me stop you :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I have seen them in person, and they do look much better. It's not just the headlights, the whole front end is better integrated.

    Not gorgeous like the B11S, mind you.

    This is the Cafe folks, everything here is off topic, so let's give folks some leeway?

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Brenda- I agree, there are plenty of unfit parents out there.

    Here&#146;s another subject: How about an IQ test before you can vote? Or maybe you should be asked a couple of questions from the <citizenship test. Or you could be required to name several of your current elected representatives. After all, should you be allowed to vote if you don't know who the current office holders are?

    -Frank P.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Most of the people who can't name their elected representatives are those who tend not to vote, anyway. Ignorance is bliss, right?
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Licensing gets messy fast, doesn't it? Australia goes the other way: they fine you for NOT voting, whether you can name your representatives or not...

    I'm not sure if it's true that the people who can't name their representatives are the ones who don't vote - it depends on what level of government we're talking about. There's a big drop off in voter awareness from the Federal level to the State level, and again from the State level to the local level, isn't there?

    I know that our elections in Colorado are now so complicated with all of the referendums and such that it takes me several hours just to work through all the issues. It's daunting, frankly.

    -brianV
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Two words for all of you....Hanging Chads!
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I just took the citizenship test, and passed !

    Whew, that's a relief !

    -brianV
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    ok ... the licensing thing in general ... I cannot imagine truly supporting anything in the way of a license of parenting .. it was a rhetorical comment which jumped off the drivers licensing ... and yes ... it opens other 'what ifs' ... such as the voting etc ...
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Congrats, now learn to vote the Florida Way!
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    Someone had mentioned Sen. Byrd's speech about Iraq...here it is courtesy of my big bro up in NJ...please excuse the length...
    Senate Floor Speech - Wednesday, February 12, 2003 by US Senator Robert
    Byrd

    To contemplate war is to think about the most horrible of human
    experiences. On this February day, as this nation stands at the brink of
    battle,every American on some level must be contemplating the horrors of
    war. Yet, this Chamber is, for the most part, silent --ominously,
    dreadfully silent. There is no debate, no discussion, no attempt to lay
    out for the nation the pros and cons of this particular war. There is
    nothing.

    We stand passively mute in the United States Senate, paralyzed by our
    own uncertainty, seemingly stunned by the sheer turmoil of events. Only
    on the editorial pages of our newspapers is there much substantive
    discussion re the prudence or imprudence of engaging in this particular
    war. And this is no small conflagration we contemplate. This is no
    simple attempt to defang a villain. No. This coming battle, if it
    materializes, represents a turning point in U.S. foreign policy and
    possibly a turning point in the recent history of the world.

    This nation is about to embark upon the first test of a revolutionary
    doctrine applied in an extraordinary way at an unfortunate time. The
    doctrine of preemption -- the idea that the United States or any other
    nation can legitimately attack a nation that is not imminently
    threatening but may be threatening in the future -- is a radical new
    twist on the traditional idea of self defense. It appears to be in
    contravention of international law and the UN Charter. And it is being
    tested at a time of world-wide terrorism, making many countries around
    the globe wonder if they will soon be on our -- or some other nation's
    -- hit list.

    High level Administration figures recently refused to take nuclear
    weapons off of the table when discussing a possible attack against Iraq.
    What could be more destabilizing and unwise than this type of
    uncertainty, particularly in a world where globalism has tied the vital
    economic and security interests of many nations so closely together?
    There are huge cracks emerging in our time-honored alliances, and U.S.
    intentions are suddenly subject to damaging worldwide speculation.
    Anti-Americanism based on mistrust, misinformation, suspicion, and
    alarming rhetoric from U.S. leaders is fracturing the once solid
    alliance against global terrorism which existed after September 11.

    Here at home, people are warned of imminent terrorist attacks with
    little guidance as to when or where such attacks might occur. Family
    members are being called to active military duty, with no idea of the
    duration of their stay or what horrors they may face. Communities are
    being left with less than adequate police and fire protection. Other
    essential services are also short-staffed. The mood of the nation is
    grim. The economy is stumbling. Fuel prices are rising and may soon
    spike higher.

    This Administration, now in power for a little over two years, must be
    judged on its record. I believe that that record is dismal.

    In that scant two years, this Administration has
    squandered a large projected surplus of some $5.6 trillion over the next
    decade and taken us to projected deficits as far as the eye can see.
    This Administration's domestic policy has put many of our states in dire
    financial condition, under funding scores of essential programs for our
    people. This Administration has fostered policies which have slowed
    economic growth. This Administration has ignored urgent matters such as
    the crisis in health care for our elderly. This Administration has been
    slow to provide adequate funding for homeland security. This
    Administration has been reluctant to better protect our long and porous
    borders.

     In foreign policy, this Administration has failed to find Osama bin
    Laden. In fact, just yesterday we heard from him again marshaling his
    forces and urging them to kill. This Administration has split
    traditional alliances, possibly crippling, for all time, International
    order-keeping entities like the United Nations and NATO. This
    Administration has called into question the traditional worldwide
    perception of the United States as well-intentioned, peacekeeper. This
    Administration has turned the patient art of diplomacy into threats,
    labeling, and name calling of the sort that reflects quite poorly on the
    intelligence and sensitivity of our leaders, and which will have
    consequences for years to come.

     Calling heads of state pygmies, labeling whole countries as evil,
    denigrating powerful European allies as irrelevant -- these types of
    crude insensitivities can do our great nation no good. We may have
    massive military might, but we cannot fight a global war on terrorism
    alone. We need the cooperation and friendship of our time-honored allies
    as well as the newer found friends whom we can attract with our wealth.
    Our awesome military machine will do us little good if we suffer another
    devastating attack on our homeland which severely damages our economy.
    Our military manpower is already stretched thin and we will need the
    augmenting support of those nations who can supply troop strength, not
    just sign letters cheering us on.

    The war in Afghanistan has cost us $37 billion so far, yet there is
    evidence that terrorism may already be starting to regain its hold in
    that region. We have not found bin Laden, and unless we secure the peace
    in Afghanistan, the dark dens of terrorism may yet again flourish in
    that remote and devastated land. Pakistan as well is at risk of
    destabilizing forces. This Administration has not finished the first war
    against terrorism and yet it is eager to embark on another conflict with
    perils much greater than those in Afghanistan.

    Is our attention span that short? Have we not learned that after winning
    the war one must always secure the peace?

    And yet we hear little about the aftermath of war in Iraq. In the
    absence of plans, speculation abroad is rife. Will we seize Iraq's oil
    fields, becoming an occupying power which controls the price and supply
    of that nation's oil for the foreseeable future? To whom do we propose
    to hand the reigns of power after Saddam Hussein?

    Will our war inflame the Muslim world resulting in devastating attacks
    on Israel? Will Israel retaliate with its own nuclear arsenal? Will the
    Jordanian and Saudi Arabian governments be toppled by radicals,
    bolstered by Iran which has much closer ties to terrorism than Iraq?

    Could a disruption of the world's oil supply lead to a world-wide
    recession? Has our senselessly bellicose language and our callous
    disregard of the interests and opinions of other nations increased the
    global race to join the nuclear club and made proliferation an even more
    lucrative practice for nations which need the income?

     
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    comment from me ...

    I'm sorry it seemed to get 'inflammatory' for some with the 'debates' and idea sharing ... I was enjoying the give and take which seemed to remain polite and respectful .. I didn't stay for the whole chat however ...
    I think in a chat situation people are more likely to speak without thinking things through, though, whereas if it is written there is more reflection on the visual written word before it is posted (in general)
    I also like to see some posting outside of cars because, after all, we do not own these cars in isolation from the rest of who we are ... we are all complex people with many facets .. some of which are similar and some of which are not ... the strength not only of this group, but of our nation as a whole ...

    Smiles, guys ... have a good weekend .. and think of me driving the six hours again tonight on a round trip to get the college daughter home for spring break !
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    In only the space of two short years this reckless and
    arrogant Administration has initiated policies which may reap disastrous
    consequences for years.One can understand the anger and shock of any
    President after the savage attacks of September 11. One can appreciate
    the frustration of having only a shadow to chase and an amorphous,
    fleeting enemy on which it is nearly impossible to exact retribution.

    But to turn one's frustration and anger into the kind of extremely
    destabilizing and dangerous foreign policy debacle that the world is
    currently witnessing is inexcusable from any Administration charged with
    the awesome power and responsibility of guiding the destiny of the
    greatest superpower on the planet. Frankly many of the pronouncements
    made by this Administration are outrageous. There is no other word. Yet
    this chamber is hauntingly silent. On what is possibly the eve of
    horrific infliction of death and destruction on the population of the
    nation of Iraq -- a population, I might add, of which over 50% is under
    age 15 --this chamber is silent. On what is possibly only days before we
    send thousands of our own citizens to face unimagined horrors of
    chemical and biological warfare -- this chamber is silent. On the eve of
    what could possibly be a vicious terrorist attack in retaliation for our
    attack on Iraq, it is business as usual in the United States Senate.

    We are truly "sleepwalking through history." In my heart of hearts I
    pray that this great nation and its good and trusting citizens are not
    in for a rudest of awakenings. To engage in war is always to pick a wild
    card. And war must always be a last resort, not a first choice. I truly
    must question the judgment of any President who can say that a massive
    unprovoked military attack on a nation which is over 50% children is "in
    the highest moral traditions of our country". This war is not necessary
    at this time. Pressure appears to be having a good result in Iraq. Our
    mistake was to put ourselves in a corner so quickly. Our challenge is to
    now find a graceful way out of a box of our own making. Perhaps there is
    still a way if we allow more time
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's quiet in here...would people rather talk about the cars at Geneva? :o)

    -juice
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    There's gonna be a war no matter what we say or do about it anyway, so I vote for more talk about cars.
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Sure wish I could write like that...

    It took me hours to put together some of those posts.

    Guess I should stick to software testing... :)

    -brianV
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I missed the chat last night, sounds like I missed some "stuff". I went looking for the transcript early today, but it wasn't up yet.

    Be kind to each other. Please.

    Brenda: The written word is definately "safer", because you have time to reconsider before inserting your entire foot into your mouth, lol...

    -brianV
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    A friend of mine is really looking hard at the Evo vs the STi.

    Anyone care to do a comparison/contrast for me?

    -brianV
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well first off they are in different leagues...

    Items that the EVO doesn't have:
    o Front LSD
    o Rear mechanical LSD
    o Driver controlled center diffy
    o 300hp/300lbs torque
    o 2.5 v. 2.0 engine (more low end)
    o Subaru Reliability
    o 6MT tranny

    The Evo is basically a step above the WRX in that it has more power but other than that it's really very similar in the mechanics.

    -mike
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    STi eats the EVO.
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    your post was quite a bit of wonderful writing...makes us crew proud
    -Used to looking at poor middle school writing in FL-
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Graduated licenses: A reality in Washington state. It goes something like this: at 16, you can transport siblings, there's a curfew. At 17, the restrictions ease somewhat, and at 18, all restrictions are gone. 2 infractions (even parking tickets) results in a 60 day suspension. Maybe the graduated part isn't such a bad thing - it eases new drivers into the breach. The 2 infractions/you're busted rule is fine, but the parking ticket thing is bogus. I did great in driver's ed, scored a 98 on my drive test, but had 2 at-fault accidents in my first 4 months of licensure. Granted, that was 1972. I've gotten better since then. :)

    Better driver's ed would benefit us all. Limited track time, skid pad & maneuvering courses would be great. Maybe an "oversize" endorsement for towing, motorhomes, big SUV's... but make 'em voluntary & give insurance premium discounts?

    Rambling on aimlessly...
    Cheers!
    Paul
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I drove accident free for 6 years, went back to school and got 2 minor speeding tickets in 6 months (Illinois plates in Wisconsin college town = giant "arrest this sucker" sign).

    I then received a stern "habitual offender" program letter in the mail ! I was offended all right ! lol.

    -brianV
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Are there things that the Evo has the STi doesn't (aside from an insanely large wing, that is...lol)

    The Evo has a lot of former Subaru nuts around here breathing heavy... I'm wondering what all the excitement's about (not an unusual thing with me...)

    -brianV
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Given a choice between the '04 WRX and the Evo, I'd go with the Subie. My '00 RS has been trouble-free, and Mitsu's tend to be weak in that area. The WRX is a known commodity, tried and tested.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Think of the EVO as half way between the WRX and the STi. Mitsu didn't give the US version all of the goodies from Japan, they cut some costs to bring it here for less money.

    It does offer a moonroof, though, which the STi won't. You can also choose between a huge and a small spoiler. That's about it.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Lot's of ooh's and aah's concerning the skid pad results on the Evo - .97 ? Yowza!

    Which has the bigger rear seat? Friend in question has a 3 year old in a car seat.

    -brianV
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tell them to visit a dealer - both rear seats are the same size as the current model Lancer and Impreza. A WRX wagon would be best if he has a kid, and now he may be able to get one with heated seats and a moonroof. That would be my choice.

    If you think about it, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds vs. 5.1, will you really notice a difference with our speed limits and pot-holed roads?

    The wagon will be practical, and heck, I'd stick with 16"s after driving over these post-snow blizzard roads full of holes. They almost swallow my Miata whole.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    He's currently driving a chipped A4, which would become his wife's car. I think he's concerned about the turbo lag in the WRX.

    I too, would go with a wagon - prolly a new Forester XT if it were me, then chip that if need be, but he's looking for a "driver's car that fits a car seat".

    We're going to the auto show together, so hopefully we'll get to see them on the same night, if not side by side.

    -brianV
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    How do they pin down the parking ticket to a particular driver? Something sound fishy there.

    In NYS they can't even ticket a driver for a moving violation using those red-light cameras, at best they give the owner a non-mover cause the plate is shown.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Oh Evo wins the pricing war. I think the Evo is ~$30K? The STi will be $34-35 sticker selling at $37k since there will be less than 1 per dealer.

    -mike
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    What is worrying is that an Australian (me) can sit the USA citizenship test and get 10 out of 10.

    Brian mentioned that in Australia, voting is compulsory. I guess that in the USA, you see voting as a right. Here in Australia, we see it as your responsibility as a member of the community to vote. Actual voter participation is high, typically about 95% with some voters inevitably slipping through the cracks through illness on the day, being unexpectedly detained etc.

    Australians are generally fairly well informed and opinionated on their government and its actions. That does mean that the debate over the looming war with Iraq is probably more balanced here than in the USA. Australians were infuriated at the failure of the Allies to finish the necessary task of regime change in Iraq at the conclusion of the Gulf War in 1991. You may recall the TV images of bloodshed as the Iraqi Army was driven back from Kuwait resulted in a backlash in the US and an early termination of the war before Bhagdad fell. There was a subsequent failure by the USA to support the Kurds in the North or the Marsh Arabs in the South of the country both of whom had uprisings suppressed.

    In a sense, George W's current campaign is cleaning up unfinished business from his father's era. It is unclear whether there is grounds to initiate the proposed offensive. Certainly the government of Iraq is unpleasant, but so are the governments of many nations. Is potential belligerence adequate grounds to initiate a war? If that perspective was generally accepted, the United States which has something of a track record for belligerence, could have found itself on the receiving end more than once.

    Our government in Australia is suffering some difficulties in its efforts to play Sheriff's Deputy (okay, very small Deputy) to the USA and Britain. The merits of this potential conflict have been seriously questioned with large meetings before the conflict starts, exceeding those against the Vietnam War in its later, inglorious, stages. The Australian public is very dubious.

    Australia expects to take a role in policing and wars as they occur They have been there from the Boer War forward and in First and Second World Wars had the largest deployments and loss of life proportionate to population of any nation. Australia's Armed Forces have a deserved reputation for fair, but tough and aggressive military engagement. Our forces are particularly adept at guerrilla type operations with some of the world's toughest Special Forces. We aided regime change in East Timor three years ago and are continuing that process. We are consistent supporters of UN based Peace initiatives and our forces serve in Peace-Keeping roles around the world.

    Jose Ramos-Horta the 1996 Nobel Peace Prize Winner and East Timor Foreign Minister argued in the New York Times that much of the protest against impending war is posited upon specious arguments of damage to the Iraqi people, ignoring the plight that they have born for more than 20 years (reprinted around the world - this link is from the New Zealand Herald) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3199147&th- esection=news&thesubsection=dialogue

    However, the Australian public is doubtful, seeing the lack of support from the United Nations as a major barrier to engagement. The attitude of many American politicians, particularly your president, seeking to characterize those members of the UN who disagree with his views, as "lily-livered" or equivalent phrases, does not take the process forward. It offends Australians and I suspect much of the rest of the world, to see an administration seek to steamroller its way past legitimate debate. It look like "Playing the Man, Not the Ball" which suggests a lack of merit in any argument.

    That concern is reinforced when the integrity of your constitutional right to free speech is circumvented by Shopping Mall Security Guards (supported, it appears by local police) who object to an innocuous T-shirt worn by an elderly lawyer. To the rest of the world, there appears limited difference between the suppression of rights in Iraq and the suppression of free speech in the USA. Simplistically, both appear to be abuses of human rights - who is more wrong? Realistically we can assume that life is worse in Iraq but suppressed rights in the USA do cloud the matter.

    If the UN backs the US view, fine. If not, it will be hard to persuade the rest of the world.

    Having avoided and car related topic at all, I wonder where this will end?

    Cheers

    Graham
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'm outta the Cafe...

    Someone post in one of the other topics when the war BS stops being posted...

    -mike
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Mike: Not sure how they make the connection on the parking tix. How do they connect parking tickets with bad driving in the first place?

    Cheers! (and keeping quarters in the car)
    Paul
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,398
    An earlier comment about skidpad and handling classes for drivers concerns me in that I foresee street racers putting that experience into practice...on our streets.

    I suppose we shouldn't let a hand full prevent the rest of us from increasing our skills but it is a concern.

    Jim
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