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Comments
That's pretty funny. Maybe Subaru's AWD puts the power down more effectively, the Porsche catches up later with 450hp worth of brute power.
-juice
PS We got a Windstar service loaner, so look for another review in the Town Hall Test Drive Team thread
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=41578&dm=yes
Bob
Really, the Impreza, Forester, and Legacy are all on related platforms and could probably roll down the same assembly line already.
-juice
Bob
Background: Subaru has a manufacturing plant in Gunma, Japan.
..Mike
..Mike
DaveM
-juice
Ken
(although I do like to wear flannel shirts and comfortable boots)
I'M KIDDING !!!
Austin Powers.
Bob
I see Subaru is MIA...
Bob
This could be fun. Who belongs in what car?
Aston Martin = James Bond
Jaguar = Austin Powers
Mustang Bullit = Steve McQueen
Outback = Croc Dundee
Suburban = Tony Soprano
Hummer = Arnold
Got any more?
-juice
If the former then you have to think about, e.g., what car a fictional character would drive. For example, Ignatius O'Reilly in "A Confederacy of Dunces" might drive a Citroen 2CV - that is if he wasn't too lazy to drive.
Ed
White Challenger > Kowalski (Barry Newman in Vanishing Point)
Yellow Challenger > Peter Fonda in Dirty Larry and Crazy Mary?
Black TransAm > Bandit
AMC Matador > Smokey
Big Rig (Kenworht or Peterbuilt) > Kris Kristoferson - Rubber Duckey
Green Firebird 400? > McQ (John Wayne)
Black Firebird > David Haselfoff in Black Knight or Dark Knight?
Ford LTD or Victoria > Blues Brothers
Dodge Satellite? > Sheriff Buford - Walking Tall
Renault > Pink Panther?
Oouchhh...my head is hurting...reaching my ecache limit....
80's Black Trans Am = Michael Knight
-mike
PS: Smokey and the Bandit is my FAVORITE Movie
-juice
This is too funny. See what car this Mad Max fan owns:
http://www.madmaxmovies.com/
--
The vision dims and all that remains are memories. They take me back - back to the place where the black pump sucked guzzolene from the earth...
And I remember the terrible battle we fought - the day we left that place forever...
But, most of all, I remember the courage of a stranger, a road warrior called Max. To understand who he was you must go back to the last days of the old world ...
...when, for reasons long forgotten, two mighty warrior nations went to war ...
...and touched off a blaze which engulfed them all.
...For without fuel they were nothing. They had built a house of straw ...
People stopped in the streets and listened: for the first time they heard the sound of silence.
Their world crumbled ...
And only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive.
At last, the vermin had inherited the earth.
And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and crushed...
...men like the Warrior Max...
who in the roar of an engine, lost everything ...
And became a shell of a man. A burnt out, desolate man, a dead man, running from the demons of his past. A man who wandered far away...
And it was out here in this blighted place, that he learned to live again...
--
..Mike
..Mike
Stick around if you can, we miss your ascerbic wit.
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
http://www.madmaxmovies.com/fanstuff/lego/AlexZorko/index.html
..Mike
-juice
..Mike
..Mike
..Mike
paisan: where is your M-B review? Slacker... ;-)
-juice
Steve
5 years is what most mass-market carmakers use for a product life cycle, so I'm not surprised if in MY-4, sales are slipping. I bet the next-generation Xterra is just around the corner.
In any event, I firmly believe not every SUV customer wants a crossover. And, Chuck, since you work for Land Rover, I'm betting you that pray that I'm right on that matter.
Bob
Bob
Jim
Bob: remember Isuzu, all they sold was back-to-basics trucks and look what happened to them. Say your boss was at GM and you had to justify a Subaru truck, how would you even approach him? It would be career suicide.
-juice
-juice
When I say "back-to-basics," I do not mean solid axles and leaf springs. I'm talking about a vehicle that is state-of the-art from an engineering standpoint, but minus many of the bells & whistles found on today's SUVs. I would love to see the next-generation Xterra have a fully independent suspension, full-time 4WD, and a 5-speed automatic -- but with rubber floor covering like the Honda Element. Combine the latest in today's technical know-how, but without the so-called luxury accoutrements that adorn so many of today's SUVs.
The current Xterra is saddled with an old chassis. I will be the first to admit that; but it also comes across to many as a better rugged, off-road alternative than the Jeep Liberty. It clearly has struck a chord with that type of customer. That's why it is a homerun IMO.
2)
I don't disagree that crossovers will probably get the lion's share of the SUV market. However, there will always be a customer for an SUV that offers traditional rugged off-road virtues. The Xterrra offers those attributes in the mid $20K range. Land Rover does the same, but in a higher price range. You can argue that the Freelander competes with the Xterra in terms of price, but I don't see it competing with the Xterra in terms of competence or utility. Obviously Xterra customers feel the same, as the Xterra outsells the Freelander by about a zillion-to-one.
3)
The Xterra, and vehicles like it, are clearly an "anti-crossover" vote. As I said above, there is a solid audience out there who rejects everything a crossover stands for. You can argue all you want, as to the benefits of crossovers vs. SUVs. It won't make a bit of difference to Xterra customers. Their priorities are different than yours.
Bob
I'm sure whatever profits are lacking in Xterra sales will be made up by the more expensive Pathfinder and Armada sales. Chuck, as you know, carmakers often try to lure new clients to their respective brand when their young, by offering them attractive vehicles at attractive prices. The hope being that today's Xterra customer will be tomorrow's Armada customer.
In any event, I'm sure Nissan considers the Xterra a solid hit (if not a homerun). It has done a great deal in terms of helping Nissan return to profitiability.
Bob
Maybe we're mixing messages. Are we talking about 2 different vehicles? One to fill the Wrangler-like nich, a back-to-basics off roader, and then other 7 passenger SUW?
If so, then sure, but I bet the off roader would become a tiny niche vehicle, and probably a money loser for Subaru.
FWIW, I believe the Liberty outsells the XTerra, by far.
Freelander is so low volume that I don't think it's even useful to be discussing it, except maybe to realize that pricing limits your customer base.
-juice
You don't see an Xterra in my driveway, do you? We're not talking about me.
Even those things you mentioned aren't extravagant IMO. I think leather seats, 8-way power seats, dual climate control, DVD players for children, wood trim, are more of what I'm talking about.
The Forester X and Xterra both offer a good blend of back-to-basics and creature comforts. That's what I'm talking about.
I guess it all depends on how you define basic. I see the Xterra as a "basic" SUV. I see it as basic, but not primitive. I see the Wrangler as "primitive." There is a difference.
Bob
The Xterra (and WRX) are by-products of that kind of marketing. Nobody needs an Xterra, and nobody needs a WRX either; but they're both on the market, and selling well. You can thank our primeval instincts for that.
Bob
I agree with you that there will always be a market segment for a no-frills, non-hybrid SUV. But the question is, how big is that market and which way is it headed? Is it worth for a car manufacturer to build a model to specifcally address this segment?
How would this be different from a manufacturer that just offers a wide range of trim levels on a single model to cover everything from the customer that wants a basic SUV to a full featured luxury ride?
I'm going to assume that the market segment you're describing is willing to sacrifice features for the sake of price. Interestingly, however, the recent Korean SUVs (Santa Fe and Sorrento) are inexpensive in price, but are rather feature-rich.
Ken
Interesting points, Bob. Taking it one step further, the hugely popular reality shows combine both survial and reproduction! :-D
Ken
Bob
The full-size Armada (and Infiniti Q56) is about to hit the showrooms in a few months. Both these models will have full-time 4WD, a 5-speed automatic, IRS and 9100 pounds towing capability. These are Nissan's heavy-hitters.
There will be a new mid-size Pathfinder shortly too. My guess is that it will be Nissan's interpetition of the Ford Explorer, much like the Armada is Nissan's take on the Expedition. That probably means IRS, 7-passenger seating, a 3.5 - 4.0 V6 and probably a 4.6 -4.8 V8. It will compete head-to-head with the Explorer and 4Runner.
We all know about Nissan's/Infiniti's car-based SUVs (Murano, FX35/45), so that area is already well covered. The only thing missing is a small cute-ute.
That leaves the Xterra. For round two, I see the 3.5 DOHC engine replacing both the SOHC 3.3 and the 3.3 supercharged engines. I think an IRS will show up. I hope full-time 4WD shows up along with a 5-speed automatic. I think the styling may become even more "macho," especially with the success of the Hummer H2. There is a smaller Hummer H3 coming too. Also Toyota will offer an Xterra-like SUV. So Nissan will take steps -- probably bold steps, based on their recent product history -- to maintain their grip on that market which they hold.
Bob
OK, so cloth, manual seats and A/C, that type of stuff. Gotcha.
I guess we'll leave it up to the marketers to decide if that's what customers want. I dunno, though, the niches that are booming at the luxury SUV and near-luxury crossovers.
Bottom line, though, is that Subaru makes lots and lots of mistakes with packaging. I can think of one major mistake with every model:
* early H6 models had WAY too much content
* early Baja's price/content was too high
* no M/R in WRX (still, on the wagon)
* no M/R on XT with manual
Several lessons here. #1, you have to offer desirable engines at affordable prices. #2, you have to survey the competition a little better, compacts cannot demand the same prices as bigger alternatives with more capacity. #3, sporty models that offer versatile roof racks (for skiing, biking, etc) are among the most likely customers to want a moonroof.
So, let's see the H6 and turbos in anything but the top models. And stop packaging OnStar and $4000 MacIntosh stereos with the desirable new models.
-juice
They'll do macho styling, but I bet it keeps the live axle and 4 speed auto to keep prices affordable, they already cost more than what most people expected once equipped.
I think it's in trouble, honestly. It's like you say about any retro car, how do you follow it up?
-juice
I'm simply making predictions of what I think will happen. I could be lured into an Xterra, but I doubt it as it currently stands. If, however, my Explorer were to die tomorrow, that could change...
Bob
Bob