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Comments
The one thing that might kill the chances of the XTerra getting the VQ is that it requires premium fuel. There is no way they'll put that engine in the Frontier/XTerra, at least until it's tuned to run on regular.
A rear indy suspension would mean they'd just use the Altima platform, but they already have the Murano. So I think they'll keep it trucky, then move the Pathfinder up in size like you predicted.
-juice
As to IRS for the Xterra or Pathfinder, my guess it will more like that found on the Armada, but lighter duty.
Bob
Grand Cherokee is, also.
How does that affect which engine it used? Now that's a question for Nissan engineers. Maybe the motor mounts? Higher NVH standards for cars? Lower fuel standards for truck engines? All of the above? :-)
I still say XTerra keeps the live axle. That may be how they differentiate it from other Nissans. Frontiers have to haul, so they'll have it in the parts bin. Look how big the Frontier Crew Cab long bed is, I doubt they have an IRS design that can handle that.
-juice
As to IRS, who knows. The Armada has it, so I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the next Pathfinder, Xterra and Frontier also get it. I see the next Pathfinder to probably have a wheelbase of around 113" with 3-row seating. I'm betting they take dead aim at the current Explorer, just as the Armada did with the Expedition. If the Xterra and Frontier don't get it, I'm sure it will be due to costs.
Bob
Really? That seems strange, to go less car-like. That was the Pathy's biggest strength (besides the engine).
That'll really drag the Pathfinder's refinement level down substantially. Unless the Frontier changes dramatically, that is.
-juice
Bob
They have waaaaay too much overlap right now. XTerra, Murano, and Pathfinder are all the same size, pretty much. 3 mid-size SUVs on 3 distinct platforms.
-juice
My understanding was that the current Pathfinder was on a hybrid chassis. It's unibody but shaped like a body on frame.
Ken
Pat
They all appeal to different buyers.
Murano = For people who want a sporty/luxurious AWD wagon, with a hint of SUVishness. These people have little or no interest in off-roading or towing.
Pathfinder = For people who want a traditional SUV with with luxury and off-road/towing capability. Family oriented too.
Xterra = For people who want a basic SUV, with very good off-road capabilities. Towing is also good. These people do NOT want an SUV with luxury pretensions. Geared to a mostly young and single audience. Think Wrangler-types who want at least some semblance of comfort. These are by and large "active" people on a limited budget.
Bob
Plus, as I've indicated, they're looking bring something out to compete with the Xterra. One rumor even goes as far as saying the Rav4 might be replaced with this new B2B SUV. I'd be very surprised if that happens, however.
The Tacoma will be replaced in about a year. It's rumored to be based on the new 4Runner; same with the new B2B SUV.
Of the three SUV sizes: small, medium and large, I think the mid-size offer the most potential for variety. It's the size that appeals to most people. Depending on configuration, it can offer good off-roading and towing, be sporty, and be a good family vehicle. So, no, I don't think Nissan has over-saturated this market.
Bob
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/beetle30_20030730.htm
DaveM
Bob
-------------------------------------------------
By Lindsay Chappell
Automotive News / June 30, 2003
-------------------------------------------------
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - In the midst of multiple U.S. expansion projects, Nissan North America Inc. plans to start another project - adding the Pathfinder SUV to its assembly plant in Smyrna, Tenn.
Similar to its other recent U.S. expansions, Nissan will lean on its parts suppliers for assistance. The automaker will move several hundred supplier employees into the Smyrna plant to hold down manufacturing costs.
Nissan is redesigning the Pathfinder to share a new common platform with the Frontier pickup and Xterra SUV, both of which are produced in Smyrna, starting in fall 2004.
Nissan will invest $250 million to add the Pathfinder, boosting Smyrna's total annual production capacity to 550,000 vehicles annually. That will mean five products under production under one roof.
The company said it also will expand the capacity of its recently enlarged engine plant in Decherd, Tenn.
Emil Hassan, Nissan's senior vice president for North American manufacturing, purchasing, quality and logistics, says that ongoing changes at Smyrna will further enhance the automaker's industry-leading production efficiency.
At a press conference at the Tennessee Capitol in Nashville on Wednesday, June 25, Hassan said Nissan will move 550 supplier employees inside the Smyrna plant in the next 12 months.
Those workers will perform on-site module assembly and parts sequencing to further reduce Nissan's transportation and handling costs. Hassan would not identify the suppliers to be inside Smyrna, explaining that some negotiations are not complete.
The addition of the Pathfinder will require Nissan to hire only 600 workers for the Smyrna plant.
At Nissan's new plant in Canton, Miss., several parts suppliers produce modules inside plants built on Nissan's property and deliver the pieces to the assembly line through enclosed conveyers. But while Canton was designed from the ground up to be integrated, Smyrna is a 22-year-old building with no available space for adjacent supplier plants.
Smyrna's approach will be performing the parts work mostly in existing space.
The test case, CalsonicKansei North America Inc., already produces Altima instrument panels and front-end modules at assigned work stations near the Altima line. Hassan says that type of integration will increase in conjunction with the Pathfinder project.
So it'll share a platform with the Frontier after all. Good luck, that's all I can say. I seriously doubt it'll be as refined. Nissans new interiors also leave much to be desired.
Toyota is going after total saturation and has approximately 1 billion dealers. Like Honda, they could sell a Pet Rock with wheels. ;-)
I could see them selling the "Jipe" like they offer in Brazil, slightly modernized.
-juice
If the Pathfinder becomes a 7-seater, on say a 113" wheelbase, I see very little overlap with the other two.
Bob
I don't doubt the size can vary by that much, but it's hard to end up with a refined near-luxury SUV when you start with a brutish chassis. Reminds me of the Cadillac Cimarron.
-juice
Bob
I'm not sure I'd even say they appear refined. They add a few nifty features and offer good numbers for towing and hauling, sure. NVH control we'll have to wait and see.
I'll reserve judgement for a test drive. Actually, let me know when you go and we'll go together. That would make for an interesting point/counterpoint review for the Town Hall Test Drive team.
-juice
They look pretty impressive on the Nissan web site, and early reports lead me to think they will be leaders in their market segment.
Juice, for trucks, they're pretty refined, at least compared to the Detroit offerings, which is what they're primarily going up against. Don't use car standards, when making the comparison. Compare apples-to-apples, so to speak. If you compare them to cars, yeah, they'll come up short.
Bob
Bob
* First non-domestic carmaker to truly offer a legitimate competitor to what Detroit has been offering. It's much more of a threat to the 1/2 ton Ram, F-150 and Silverado than the Tundra or T100 ever were. It is the clearest signal to date that this market is no longer for "Detroit-only" brands.
* It's the first full-size pickup with a 5.6 all-alloy DOHC engine. Final power has not been released, but preliminary reports I've read say that it's more powerful than the new Dodge Hemi.
* It's the first full-size 1/2 ton to offer a 5-speed automatic, which is standard BTW.
* It's the first pickup of any size to offer a factory sprayed-in bed liner.
For more details:
http://www.nissanusa.com/0,,,00.html
I think the F-150 will win some awards too. In fact, if it weren't for the Titan, I'd say it would be a cake-walk for Ford.
Bob
Even Infiniti's G35 gets universal criticism for its interior. Toyota's entries in each segment are far more refined. My expectations for the new Nissan are nowhere close to yours.
The VQ is a gem, I'll give them that. But the FWD chassis they use has trouble harnessing that power; torque steer is worst-in-class.
Bob - I will comparing them to the Tundra/Sequioa, I think that'll be its most direct competitor.
I do think it carries a lot of significance, yes, hence the awards. That's different than being refined, though.
However, the current Pathfinder can hold up to comparisons with cars, in fact IMO it is far more refined than the newer Altima. It will be a step down the refinement ladder, mark my words.
-juice
Bob
WOW! What a Tour! I was a bit worried for Lance a couple times there, but he dug deep and pulled it off. Kudos to Jan and Vino for giving him such a great run for the yellow. Oh and how about Tyler Hamilton? He is the ultimate tough guy in my book. Just imagine what this guy will do in a grand tour when he's not having to ride with a broken bone somewhere in his body! Bloody amazing.
We were in Paris for 4 days starting the 5th of July. We got to see quite a few of the Tour riders warming up on the Prologue course before jet lag reared it's ugly head and floored us for a couple of hours. Fortunately our hotel was only 2 blocks from the course and we caught the last 40 or so in person.
I'm really quite glad to have not had to drive in Paris. The taxi ride from the airport was enough to scare the $&!# out of me. I have never seen so many well used bumpers as I did on the cars in Paris! I could have parked my butt at an intersection and been amused for hours! What absolute chaos! As for Subies, I think the only one I saw in Paris was an older model white STi (sorry don't know the letter codes, but it had the narrow headlights vs. the bugeyes) on a narrow street near the Musee D'Orsay. I rather enjoyed all the different looking cars there, especially the tiny litttle Smart cars, the funky cool Renault Megane's, and the straight out of a sci fi movie Fiat Multipla. The highlight however (next to the STi of course) was the green Audi RS6 Avant. Wow! My heart skipped a beat. ;-)
We left Paris on the 9th and jumped on the TGV to Annecy were we spent the afternoon and next morning exploring this charming village before meeting a bike tour company on the 10th for some TdF viewing and riding in the Alps. What a blast! We rode some truly epic climbs (including the Galibier, L'Alpe d'Huez, the Telegraphe and the Croix de Fer). Fortunately not all in one day. ;-) The stages we saw in person were the first 3 mountain stages starting with the stage Richard Virenque won and took the polka dot and yellow jersey's. We were on the Col de la Ramaz on Stage 7, L'Alpe d'Huez on Stage 8 and the Col de Lautaret on Stage 9. It was quite amazing how fast those guys go up hill, especially after 100 miles and 3 cols in the 95 degree heat.
Saw lots more Subie's in the small alpine villages, especially Megeve (including a bug eyed STi that parked right in front of me while I was taking a sight seeing break in the town square of Megeve). Also in Megeve I spied a VW Golf R32.
After the bike touring we rented a car in Grenoble (a Renault Laguna hatchback) and stayed 3 nights in the small village of Gordes in the Provence region. It was sooooo hot here we saw as many sights as we could but got back to the AC in the hotel room pretty early every day to watch the tour on Eurosport. We did manage to see the Pont du Gard (the c. 19 BC Roman aqueduct featured in the VW Beetle commercial), Les Baux-de-Provence (the ruins of a castle built on a bare rock spur in the Alpilles), and of course Mont Ventoux. Didn't get to cycle up Ventoux, but could tell it would have been brutal. Then we drove back up to Lake Annecy and stayed another 3 nights in the village of Talloire. We swam in the lake one day, drove to Chamonix the next day (and rode the tram to the Aiguille du Midi), then swam in the lake again on the last morning before getting the car back to Grenoble and us back to Paris for a flight home the next day.
The Renault Laguna felt like a nicely built machine. I liked the look though the wagon is nicer looking IMO. I think it was a 4 cyl. petrol engine. It felt pretty strong but quickly got winded on the autoroute. It had a really cool card for a key. It was about the size of 3 or 4 credit cards stacked on top of each other and had buttons for locking and unlocking the doors. In the car you'd slide it into a slot down near the gear shifter, depress the clutch and push a button to start the car. I know, I'm easily entertained, but I had fun with it. ;-) The car handled pretty well for how comfortable it was.
Whew! It was a bit of a whirlwind but absolutely worth it! We had an total blast and really enjoyed our time there. Of course we drank our fair share of French wines and ate quite a bit of cheese. Not to mention all the ham and cheese sandwiches on baguettes! ;-)
Au Revoir!
-Ian
If it was a petrol engine, than it probably did get winded- tax rates on automobiles there are based on displacement, so people tend to go with the smallest one. A good reason why the overwhelming majority of new vehicles get sold as diesels.
I did amuse myself in Paris just watching the dynamic of the Arc de Triomphe traffic circle...amazing. Even more so when you realise the bumpers are well used because of constant parallel parking in itty bitty spots, not so much from accidents. I was surprised how little bent metal I saw given the overall agressivness of the driving.
Thanks for the trip report, I got dizzy reading about everything you packed into the trip! Green Audi RS6 Avant.. mmm Oh, how I lust for that exact car (well, haven't seen the green, but I do favor it; wife's GT wagon is Timberline Green).
Cheers,
..Mike Smith . Silver Spring, Maryland
..Mike
Cool trip. Welcome back.
-juice
http://www.jcsnell.co.uk/conceptcars/runabout.html
Bob
They did do a couple of sports car concepts a year or so ago (Diamonds and Spades?) one of which ran a high-performance diesel. Those had production potential.
Ed
My dad owned a 1960 Peugeot and it was new when he bought it. No one knew what it was way back then; it was definitely a 'novelty' ... also very difficult to get parts for ... American wrenches didn't fit, etc ... It was a cool car, though, and the first one I'd ever seen with a sunroof.
http://www.bird-man.com/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1007985,00.html
Bob
There is a Forester Prices Paid thread, maybe Forester XT though.
Those are cool, and here I wanted to go bungee jumping!
-juice
http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_cod- e=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02609955
DaveM
-Dave
-juice
The funderal trade will be delighted. Rolls Royce and Bentleys were the traditional hearses for the English funeral director.
Indeed, the largest ever order of Rolls Royce cars was to the Co-Operative Funeral directors who ordered some hundreds (I vaguely recall the figures as 342) at once. However, they were ordered without heaters or radios as it was considered that the occupants would not need them.
Cheers
Graham
-Dave
Graham- LOL! We can always count on you to offer a unique slant on the situation at hand.
Bob
http://www.subarubrat.com/longbed.htm
This and other obscure Subie (and BRAT) trivia can be found here:
http://www.ultimatesubaru.net/
Bob
STi and XT could not hurt, in terms of bringing attention and generating dealer traffic. Apparently sales, too.
-juice
I recounted this story to another of my car-loving buddies and he agreed with the assessment, but stated "I agree that most of the Euro cars in the upper end of the price strata would probably be more troublesome than an Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Subaru, Mazda. Kind of hard to figure why, what with world wide sourcing of parts and technology, but there you have it."
The parts manufacturers do make parts for all the auto companies. I am thinking that the issues have to be in the design of the parts. Perhaps a Ford designed widget has been cost reduced and has a higher rate of failure than a Subaru designed widget.
I am also wondering if the auto manufacturers design all there own parts. I mean does Subaru design everything itself, or does it go to a supplier and buy certain assemblies that are "off the shelf". I'm thinking alternators, a/c components, window motors... stuff like that. It is obvious that Subaru doesn't design screws and bolts, but I wonder where the design stops.
Does anyone in the Subaru crew know anything about this?
Frank
Still, they design and offer specifications those suppliers must follow. They bid parts out, pick the best price/quality balance (one hopes), and follow it all up with quality control.
Auto makers do these processes differently, which is why a Lexus usually has fewer defects than a Toyota.
-juice
Yes, that was silence. Like the silence echoing through now-closed, former Daewoo dealers across America. My mother always said if you can't say something good, don't say anything at all. I hugged my Outback when we were reunited at the end of the day!
Jon
Jim