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Honda Civic Hybrid

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  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "It would be better to compare the 2 seater CRX to the 2 seater Insight."

     

    About the theme of your post hybriddriver:

    You are assuming that everyone here can tell the difference between a stripped, zero option Civic DX to an HCH.

     

    I'm not referring to anyone lately,

    But in the past there have been people who see little or no difference.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    But they should be able to see the differences. HCH is a luxury car compared to entry level that those basic Civic/CRX models were. This is before we talk about safety.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    My savings over the last 10 months have paid for my Christmas expenses, which is around $500, the difference between a Civic EX in regards to fuel savings.

      

    Civic EX EPA is 38MPG.

    My lifetime average is 58MPG.

    I've driven 30K miles.

    Fuel saved is about 260 gallons.

    Fuel is around $1.80/Gallon Nat'l price.

    I've saved around $475 in less than a year's time.

      

    Or look at it this way:

    Similarly equipped EX costs about $17K.

    My HCH cost about $18.5K.

    That's about $1.5K premium paid for my HCH.

    Tax incentive should return about $400 of that premium.

    My battery warranty extends to 10 years or 150K Miles.

    In 5 years I'll reach 150K miles.

    If I've saved ~ $500 each year in fuel over a similarly equipped Civic EX I'll have saved about $2,500.

      

    I keep my vehicles for 10 years, so I'll end up with about 300K miles on it.

    I expect the battery pack life to end before the 10 years/300K Miles. What will I do then?

      

    Perhaps I'll be able to find a used replacement but in worse case I'll just drive it with reduced MPG.

      

    I think we can expect gas prices to rise over $2 / gallon in the future. How high will it go? $2.50?

    Will there be more political trouble in the middle east? ...$3.00 or more?

    Bet there will be lots of used SUV's on sale for CHEAP then.

      

    I'd never claim that hybrids are the best mile -to-dollar car you can buy.

    If you are in that situation then perhaps a nice econo-car like Toyota Echo might be a better choice.

      

    However if you want the most technological advanced auto to date, potentially fantastic MPG not obtainable with conventional methods, or want to make each and every commute a fun & exciting experience then a hybrid might be for you.
  • gfedchakgfedchak Member Posts: 37
    "However if you want the most technological advanced auto to date, potentially fantastic MPG not obtainable with conventional methods, or want to make each and every commute a fun & exciting experience then a hybrid might be for you."

     

    Exactly.

     

    I'm always amazed at how much fun the HCH is. And it seems like so much more intelligent a form of pleasure than quick 0-60 times.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Just finished my first long road trip in my 2004 manual tranny HCH, and I thought I would pass on my impressions.

     

    The trip was from Phoenix, AZ to Clyde, TX, about 930 miles one way.

     

    I packed clothes for ten days for myself and two kids under age 9, and all the Christmas presents I could haul. The trunk was packed full to the lid, the front passenger floor and seat were both full, and half of the backseat floor was full. My kids each have a booster seat and they have a little plastic console in between the seats. I have always prided myself on my ability to pack a car, and this one was "well packed."

     

    We filled up at Sam's Club and left town about 1:00 pm on Wednesday Dec 22nd. Some of you might recall that there was an "arctic cold front" moving down into the South Central US about that time, and we were headed right into it. It was about 60 degrees when we left Phoenix and clear, but we would not end the night that way.

     

    The first "leg" of the trip was from Phoenix to El Paso, about 445 miles, and we only stopped once at a Rest Area on that leg. The Interstate 10 speed limits in that leg ranged from 60-75 MPH, and were mostly 75. I drove the speed limit and with the cruise on at all times. I achieved 52.75 miles per gallon between the Phoenix Sam's Club and the El Paso Sam's Club, where I filled up on their $1.569 gas. By the time we got to El Paso at about 8:00 pm local time, the COLD WIND had arrived and I just about froze to death while I fueled the HCH. We averaged 75.77 miles per hour and 52.75 miles per gallon on that leg - pretty impressive I think, for a fully loaded car driving that fast.

     

    We got to Van Horn TX at about 10:30 pm local time and got the last $45 room at a little Motel in town to spend the night before continuing to Clyde the next morning. It was about 30 degrees and cloudy in Van Horn, and the Trip A odometer read 557 miles and 46.5 MPG, and we averaged 65.5 mph for that first 8.5 hours of the drive.

     

    The next morning, we had a light frost on the HCH at 4:45 a.m. when we left Van Horn. The HCH started without a hitch, and the defroster cleared the back window in about 10 minutes. We were in windy conditions the rest of the way, mostly cloudy but no ice or snow on the road until we hit Sweetwater TX, which is about an hour or so from Clyde. The roads were frozen but sanded, so we only had to slow a little. The HCH had no problems holding the road in the wind or the slightly icy roads.

     

    The next morning, the temps got into the mid teens at night, but when I started the HCH up to go get a newspaper that morning, it was no problem and the car ignored the weather completely. The defroster worked fine in front and back.

     

    We drove the HCH around town and a took few short highway trips the 10 days in Texas, and it got us about 44 mpg for the time there, which was OK to me because of the colder temps and the fact that the car was mostly full of passengers every trip out.

     

    For the return trip to Phoenix, we left on Sunday morning about 6:45 am Jan 2nd, and drove straight thru. Stopped once for gas in El Paso again (gas only cost $1.519 this time) and we got about 50 mpg for the 14 hour drive back to Phoenix. The temps were in the 40s and 50s, and the car was just as loaded on the way back as it was on the way to TX.

     

    As far as interior comfort, the one slight complaint I had is that the driver's seat got kind of HARD after about 250 miles. Other than that, everything worked great, the car ignored the cold, and I was very pleased with the overall mileage for the trip, which was about 47.3 mpg for the 2568 miles driven. I had expected less with a full load and the cold, so I am pleased.

     

    Anyway, I hope this helps anyone planning a road trip to know what to expect from the HCH.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good trip story. I would like to see more of those on the forum. It looks like you matched the 47 mpg the guys from that magazine article got on their trip across the USA. I don't see how you could do much better than that. And you kept up with the speed limits fully loaded. Glad it was a safe trip for you.. Happy New Year
  • glycinemaxglycinemax Member Posts: 74
    ...any ideas how much of a MPG increase is considered "significant", 5%, 10%, ?

     

    "new Civic Hybrid will feature enhancements to Honda's IMA hybrid technology to achieve significantly higher fuel economy and performance." --Honda President and CEO Takeo Fukui

     

    http://www.hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2005011134476&mime=asc
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    HX is not comparable to the Hybrid, come on now, be real.

     

    What you get (Standard Equipment)

    HX Model

     

    • Mechanical: 1.7-liter/ 102-cu. in I4 with 117 hp at 6100rpm and 110lb-ft of torque at 4500rpm; front-wheel drive; 5-speed manual or continuously variable automatic transmission; 32/38 mpg (city/highway - manual), 36/44 mpg (city/highway – automatic); dual front airbags; power steering; emergency inside trunk release; tachometer

     

    • Comfort and style: theft-deterrent system; wheel covers; tilt steering wheel; cloth upholstery; front bucket seats; cupholders; split folding rear seat; digital clock; rear defogger; remote fuel-door and decklid releases; intermittent wipers; visor mirrors; cruise control; power mirrors and door locks; AM/FM/CD player; alloy wheels

     

    Hybrid Model

     

    • Mechanical: 5-speed manual or continuously variable automatic transmission; 1.3-liter/ 80-cu. in gasoline/electric I4 with 93 hp at 5700rpm and 116lb-ft of torque at 1500rpm (105lb-ft of torque at 3000rpm with CVT); 46/51 mpg (city/highway - manual), 48/47 mpg (city/highway – automatic); antilock brakes; front side airbags

     

    • Comfort and style: ALL THE HX OPTIONS PLUS: automatic climate control; trip computer; variable-intermittent wipers; rear spoiler

     

    Also, most importantly, the HX is a 2-dr coupe or hatchback, while the Hybrid as you know is a 4-door sedan.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I think this would be an equivalent of supercharging a naturally aspirated engine.

     

    http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&Pro- dID=1243

     

    Read the specs, 12000 mAh = 12Ah. I wonder if it would fit?
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    No, but after you add the "luxury options", you've got all the comfort of the Hybrid plus great fuel economy (44mpg), and for $2000 less!

     

    You would have to drive your Hybrid ~400,000 miles before you made up that $2000 difference.

     

    The HX with luxury added makes more sense from a finance point-of-view.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    But the HX is not a "small family sedan."

     

    I have two kids who climb into and out of car seats - I don't want a two door. I know many Civic buyers are in the same boat.

     

    The HX is NOT NOT NOT a comparable vehicle to the Hybrid - it's just made to serve a different demographic.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    But the HX is not a "small family sedan."

     

    I would think the EX sedan would be a closer matchup. In San Diego there is about $3k difference with the HCH. If you drive a lot of miles every year the HCH may pay for itself. If you love the moonroof and bigger trunk go for the EX. If you drive 30k miles a year the HCH will save you about $350 per year. They can both be PZEV so emissions is not an issue.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    No, but after you add the "luxury options", you've got all the comfort of the Hybrid plus great fuel economy (38mpg), and for $2000 less!

      

    You would have to drive your Hybrid ~300,000 miles before you made up that $2000 difference.

      

    The LX with luxury added makes more sense from a finance point-of-view.

     

    troy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Before you think about installing all the luxury (if you could), you would have to find one!

     

    Well, I'm waiting to hear about the next Civic Hybrid now. It will be interesting to see the direction Honda takes with the replacement due next year.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "You would have to drive your Hybrid ~300,000 miles before you made up that $2000 difference"

     

    I keep seeing this posted without any figures.

     

    Also,

    HX isn't an LX, which isn't a DX which isn't an HCH. They are all different trim levels no matter what options you add on.

     

    Auto makers understand this and so do many buyers.

     

    I don't think anyone here has claimed that buying an HCH is a better mile-for-dollar value over a cheap econo car.

    Why waste your money on a HX when the Toyota Echo MSRP is only about $10K and gets about the same MPG as the regular Civics? That would be more money in your pocket.

    If you live in a warm climate then I beleive the best mile-for-dollar value would be a moped, scooter or a motorcycle.

     

    I didn't buy an Echo for the same reason I didn't get the HX or LX or a scooter.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "The LX with luxury added makes more sense from a finance point-of-view"

     

    Here we have to differ. According to Hondacars a nice luxury LX costs about $20,000

    http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications_descriptions.a- - sp?ModelName=Civic+Sedan&Category=LX

     

    Your luxury LX makes no financial sense over the MSRP for these cars:

     

    Hyundai Accent $9,900

    Toyota Echo $10,300

    Chevrolet Cavalier $10,800

    Saturn Ion $11,900

    Pontiac Sunfire $11,460

    Kia Riocinco $12,000

    Nissan Sentra $12,700

    Ford Focus $13,700

    Dodge Neon $14,000

     

    Knowing that you can save thousands of dollars on any one of these nice new cars, why would anyone ever buy a luxury LX? No doubt you could find a better price on your luxury LX but also on any of these listed cars.

     

    So why do people buy an HCH over an LX? Simple. We don't want one.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    Misterme...

     

    I agree 100%. But there are some people on this board who continue insisting that a Civic Hybrid is a better choice, even if you are too poor to afford the $20,000 pricetag.

     

    The concept of "I want something affordable" is not an acceptable reason to these persons.

     

    troy
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    Hey, you got to read the specs of Toyota Echo. Its a foot shorter

    than Civic and the comparison is weird.

     

    As for the prices, you have quoted is the lowest price of these models.

    The actuals for the compact cars like Sentra, Focus, Neon will be

    around 15 K.

     

    Add the feature of Honda-EX model and they will hit between 17-18K.

    And Hybrid-Civic sells for 21K. You may gain 2K in fuel savings.

    So you are spending an extra 1K for a high MPG low polluting vehicle

    which also reduces the trips to gas station with a 600 mile range.

     

    And if Gasolene prices go above $ 2 / gallon, your payback will be

    faster. Keep watching the gas prices.

     

    Dont crib guys, those who have Hybrid-Civic are enjoying.

     

    But it would be sensible if Honda introduces Hybrid version of Civic-LX and sells it for 18 K.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    That's what I'd lilke to see, either Honda or Toyota to put their systems in a no-frills cheap car and market it tward the thrifty buyer.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    May be Honda Fit/Jazz Hybrid of the future!
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Until batteries are more efficient and cheaper, Hybrids will not be in low-end cars for a few years yet.

     

    They just cannot make money doing that. If you add $3000 worth of technology to an Echo, then it's not competing with the low-end cars anymore.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Not necessarily. If adding IMA (nothing else) adds $2K to mid-level Jazz, we may be talking a high mileage 5-door HB for $16K or less.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not necessarily. If adding IMA (nothing else) adds $2K to mid-level Jazz, we may be talking a high mileage 5-door HB for $16K or less.

     

    What documentation do you have that sets the price of the IMA componentry. The last I saw the batteries alone cost $2k-$3k. Motors are not cheap. Light weight components are expensive. Larsb and I agree on this one. The car companies are trying to ease their pain by putting the technology into the highend models.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The last I saw the batteries alone cost $2k-$3k.

     
    Where?

     
    Civic EX is $2300 cheaper than Civic Hybrid. So, Honda must not be giving money away if batteries cost $3K with Civic Hybrid since at this time we’re not discussing additional frills (yes Civic EX has a cheap version of the moonroof but no automatic climate control, not as good noise insulation or as nice interior and does without improved underbody aerodynamics). There are additional things in the hybrid that cost some and are included in “the premium”.

     

    So, why would $2K be impossible in a Jazz/Fit?
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    I'm still waiting for the 80mpg Lupo to come to America. No batteries...just good engineering.

     

    .

     

    FUEL SAVINGS OF CIVIC HYBRID vs. A 40mpg CAR

    100,000 miles = $1000

    200,000 miles = $2000

    300,000 miles = $3000 (engine dies; no battery replacement)

       
     

    FUEL SAVINGS OF INSIGHT HYBRID vs. A 40mpg CAR

    100,000 miles = $2100

    200,000 miles = $4200

    300,000 miles = $6300 (engine dies; no battery replacement)

     

    Financially, I still think it makes more sense to buy the cheaper, non-hybrid car for $15-18,000. Unless you can "get around" the 2-seat limitation of the Insight.

     

    troy
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Honda must not be giving money away if batteries cost $3K with Civic Hybrid

     

    I would be willing to bet that they are not making a profit on their hybrid cars. If they were they would be ramping up production to get all they can get. Besides you made the statement they can do the IMA upgrade for $2000. So where do you get that figure. We won't even know what the batteries cost until the 8 years is up and some poor smuck has to buy a set from Honda.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    Toyota is making a profit (they said so).

     

    I'm sure Honda is too, since their version is simpler/fewer parts/less expensive.

     

    troy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I would be willing to bet that they are not making a profit on their hybrid cars

     

    Let us do it then. ;-)
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "The last I saw the batteries alone cost $2k-$3k"

     

    Is that retail cost?

    I've not heard of any car company selling parts for "cost".

    I wonder how much Honda actually pays for the HCH pack?

    $500-1500?

     

    electrictroy #1047

    Thanks for posting your figures but you didn't post any calculations, just results.

     

    Again, why spend 15-18K when you can buy a nice base Echo or similar for around $10K and still get 35-40MPG? You could keep the 5-8K in your pocket.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    The Echo is what we used to refer to as "an econobox" - BASIC, BASIC transporation, targeted for people who can barely even AFFORD a car, or people who want to keep their car payments AS LOW as they can and are willing to suffer the lack of amenities to do so.

     

    The HCH targets another market, and is about twice the car as the Echo, and thus is about twice the price.

     

    That comparo is indeed apples to naranjas.......
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    "The HCH targets another market, and is about twice the car as the Echo, and thus is about twice the price"

     

    Yes, that is my point.

    Some here still want to compare a no frills Civic to the HCH...because it's cheaper...it appears that they can't tell any difference.

     

    You're right. Different markets.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Some here still want to compare a no frills Civic to the HCH...because it's cheaper...it appears that they can't tell any difference.

     

    I have always compared the HCH to the EX which is at least $3k less than the HCH. The EX is not as stripped as the HCH is. It has a larger trunk & the power moonroof. Most of the time the moonroof adds $1000 to the price of a car. That means you are paying about $4k more for the HCH over the EX. What you get for that extra is about 8-10 mpg better mileage and ABS brakes. Can you think of anything else? If you drive a lot you can make up that difference in about 400k miles. You may be on your 3rd set of batteries by then, who knows. Both can be SULEV II rated if you live in CA or someplace that has low sulfur clean gas. Have I missed anything, or is the HCH a "gotta be the first to have one"?
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    Gagrice, my earlier post was not specifically aimed at you. At least you've brought up a nice comparison, a similarly loaded Civic EX, not a stripped econo model.

    Both cars are indeed very similar and both nice cars but there are differences.

     

    http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=- - - - - - - - Civic+Sedan&bhcp=1&BrowserDetected=True

    Honda cars shows the base MSRP at $17,660.

    Base for the HCH is $19,500, about $2k difference. Since we are now comparing similar options, let's build an EX that includes:

     

    MT with front/side bags $17,660

    Splash guards $94

    Rear spoiler $499

    Fenderwell Trim $89

    No carpeted mats are available for the EX, but

    are available for the Accord for $79.

     

    Total MSRP for that EX is $18,615...still about $1k more for the HCH.

    I don't doubt that one can get a better deal on a new, same EX but you'll still be missing:

     

    ABS

    EBD

    EX does not have the added sound dampening items built exclusively into the HCH body.

    Trim package is similar but not the same, specifically the front clip and the rear area.

    More things:

    Automatic climate control

    Special instrument panel

    Heat rejecting glass

    IMA system (And yes, this actually costs money)

    LRR Tires

    Exclusive alloy rims

    CVT

    Advanced cylinder management

     

    What items don't you get on an HCH that you do get on an EX?

    2 items: Moon roof and folding rear seat.

     

    "The EX is not as stripped as the HCH is"

    If you are always comparing then why claim HCH is a stripped model?

     

    "What you get for that extra is about 8-10 mpg better mileage"

    "You" implies me, misterme, and I've averaged about 60MPG over 12 months and 31K miles. EX can't average that.

    If you mean people on average then you are right, about 10MPG better on the HCH.

    How long do we expect fuel prices to remain stable and not exceed the $2.00 mark? $2.50 or higher?

     

    "If you drive a lot you can make up that difference in about 400k miles"

    In 12 months and 31K miles I've saved about $500 in fuel over the EX, calculating 60MPG over 38MPG based on $1.80/gallon fuel.

     

    Another point:

    HCH has taught me how to drive more efficiently and have fun doing it. It's an exclusive trait to this car.

    If I would have bought an EX it would have been...well just another car...no driving for efficiency. What MPG would I actually get with an EX? low 20's? 30?

     

    Comparing MPG with the car it replaced, I saved about $5,000 only last year.

     

    "Have I missed anything, or is the HCH a "gotta be the first to have one"?

    I'm not sure of your point.
  • mautomauto Member Posts: 75
    The only thing "exslusive" about the HCH alloys is that they are butt-ugly.
  • mistermemisterme Member Posts: 407
    That's opinion, subject only to personal preference.
  • gfedchakgfedchak Member Posts: 37
    Why are you envious of people who are happy with their cars?

     

    Also, the HCH alloys are special lightweight alloys, to help get better gas mileage. Their look is functional, not gee-whiz junior high school.

     

    It's interesting how troglodytes will spend $2,000 for alloy wheels, but the same (cash-strapped bottom-feeding subcompact buyers) can't imagine spending the same premium for hybrid technology.
  • yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    Hi misterme

     

    Wonderful piece of response.

     

    Even if an average HCH gets 50 MPG and Civic-EX gets 35 MPG. Thats 3,000 gallons for HCH and 4,300 gallons for Civic-EX over 150,000 miles and @ 1.8 / gallon, its $ 2,340 for that extra

    1300 gallons.

     

    You definitely get the Return on Investment + the 550 mile range means there is no need to pull over to the gas station frequently and waste a few miles.

     

    After all there are so many people who buy an SUV without ever carrying 2-3 tons (for which SUV's are built) and they spend an extra $ 2000 - 3000 for the fuel. And all these critics never talk a word against them.

     

    BTW, last year the sales of nearly 30 SUV's have declined because of rising gas prices.

     

    Meanwhile enjoy your HCH and count the faster ROI as gas prices increase.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    While it true the Echo is a "poverty car", it's also possible to buy an Echo or Civic HX with the *same add-ons/luxuries* as the Hybrid... but for ~$2000 less... and still get 38mpg or 44mpg, respectively.

     

    troy
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote E-Troy:"While it true the Echo is a "poverty car", it's also possible to buy an Echo or Civic HX with the *same add-ons/luxuries* as the Hybrid... but for ~$2000 less... and still get 38mpg or 44mpg, respectively."

     

    You are only HALF right. :)

     

    Echos CANNOT be compared to a Civic hybrid in creature comfort levels. It's just not targeted to the same market. The Echo is this millenium's answer to the Geo Metro of the 1990s - the cheapest basic transport you can buy from a big company (excluding the Kia/Hyundais).

     

    "What Edmunds.com says: Still the class of its class, the Civic is the most refined, solidly built economy car on the market."

     

    "What Edmunds.com says: With its cheap interior and wobbly handling, the Echo doesn't seem like much of a bargain, especially when you consider the more capable, better-packaged offerings from Hyundai and Toyota's own Scion division."

     

    In other words, "you can't polish a turd."

     

    Dont risk credibility by arguing that a lowly Echo compares to a Civic - it just doesn't....
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    After all there are so many people who buy an SUV without ever carrying 2-3 tons (for which SUV's are built) and they spend an extra $ 2000 - 3000 for the fuel. And all these critics never talk a word against them.

     

    I believe the longest thread in Edmund's history was to bash SUV owners. "I don't like SUVs, why do you?" was cut off at 62,020 posts. All the hybrid threads added up have a ways to go to catch that one.

     

    I am not as much against the HCH as the motivation for hybrids. I think it is a more complex way to solve the fuel usage problem than other types of drive trains.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Dont risk credibility by arguing that a lowly Echo compares to a Civic - it just doesn't....

     

    You will never hear me say that. I don't think the Echo should be allowed on freeways. Only surface roads with a 45 mph limit. Geo Metro is a good comparison.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    quote gagrice-"I am not as much against the HCH as the motivation for hybrids. I think it is a more complex way to solve the fuel usage problem than other types of drive trains."-end quote

     

    Even if you question the motivation behind Hybrids, anyone can see the success so far. The EPA rates the USA Hybrids as the cleanest, greenest cars in the USA right now.

     

    That's a positive step for everyone who breathes.

     

    Even if you disagree with the implementation, the benefits are clear and undeniable.

     

    At some point, clean diesel might make inroads and help reduce overall fuel consumption, but for right now, the Hybrids are the best we got.
  • laroy76laroy76 Member Posts: 12
    What are people paying these days for 2005 Civic Hybrids? Are they still going for close to sticker?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I went through the fleet dept and got a used 2004 with 4,800 miles on it for 19,324 six months ago.

     

    Just as an FYI, the 2006 HCH is a redesign and promises higher MPG, so if you are in the mood to wait a few months you can get a newer generation of the HCH....
  • cablackcablack Member Posts: 45
    My experience: I bought my 2005 HCH in November for $500 over invoice.

     

    I first went to my local dealer (very large), and they were unwilling to part with one for less than MSRP, so I went online to a dealer about 25 minutes away, got their fleet dealer, who told me their price. No haggling -- one of my 'gentler' new car purchase experiences. :-)
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    It's possible to buy a Civic LX or HX with the *same add-ons/luxuries* as the Hybrid... but for ~$2000 less... and still get 38mpg or 44mpg, respectively.

     

    troy
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    "It's possible to buy a Civic LX or HX with the *same add-ons/luxuries* as the Hybrid... but for ~$2000 less... and still get 38mpg or 44mpg, respectively."

     

    Yes, and by doing so you will:

     

    1. Pollute more

    2. have a lower resale value

    3. spend more money on fuel

    4. emit exhaust while sitting stopped at red lights

    5. lose a tax break from the Fed and maybe State govt

    6. lower the number of hybrids sold, which hurts everyone who breathes and might discourage carmakers to build future hybrids

    7. be as effective at reducing oil usage as a chocolate teapot is at making tea

    8. not be able to participate as a hybrid owner in the fantabulous Edmunds Hybrid Forums

    9. lose the fun of being able to see how high you can get your MPG by using the dashboard tools provided in hybrid cars

    10. be unable to get 93.1 MPG over a 3 mile stretch like I did once in my HCH.

    11. get the satisfaction of going 700 miles on a single tank.


     

    So go ahead and lose all those bennies if you want to. I don't.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    It's possible to buy a Civic LX or HX with the *same add-ons/luxuries* as the Hybrid... but for ~$2000 less... and still get 38mpg or 44mpg, respectively.

     

    Get me one, and I will consider buying it. Remember to add ABS, EBD, automatic climate control, better interior trimming, better NVH by way of more insulation and underbody plates etc. In the end, you may end up with a car that is more expensive than Civic EX.

     

    And remember to have 4-doors on the HX. I considered HX before bringing home the EX. But for two issues:

    - spouse wanted 4-doors

    - dealer didn't have any available on the lot for a test drive
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Like ABS. Like LATCH tethers for child seats. Like VTEC engine. Like 3-Point Seat Belts at All Seating Positions. Like Automatic Climate Control with Air-Filtration System. Like Multiple Position Variable/Intermittent Windshield Wipers versus only a 2-speed option on the LX/DX. Like Body-Colored Dual Power Mirrors. Like Heat-Rejecting Green-Tinted Glass.

     

    So even as SOUPED up as you want to make it, the LX/DX is not comparable to the Hybrid.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    4. emit exhaust while sitting stopped at red lights 5. lose a tax break from the Fed and maybe State govt 9. lose the fun of being able to see how high you can get your MPG by using the dashboard tools provided in hybrid cars

     

    True

     

    .

     

    2. have a lower resale value 6. lower the number of hybrids sold, which hurts everyone who breathes and might discourage carmakers to build future hybrids 8. not be able to participate as a hybrid owner in the fantabulous Edmunds Hybrid Forums

     

    (2) Most hybrids I've seen have *terrible* resale. Like Insights for only $8000. HCH's for onyl $12,000.

     

    (6) If you can get great 44 mpg fuel economy without a battery, then hybrids should NOT be encouraged.

     

    (8) Edmund's? Big whoop! I'd rather take my $2000 savings! :-)

     

    .

     

    1. Pollute more 3. spend more money on fuel 7. be as effective at reducing oil usage as a chocolate teapot is at making tea 10. be unable to get 93.1 MPG over a 3 mile stretch like I did once in my HCH. 11. get the satisfaction of going 700 miles on a single tank.

     

    (1)(3)(7) ULEV is still ultra-clean. 44 mpg is AWESOME fuel economy. And it DOES reduce oil usage dramatically.

     

    (10)(11) No, but 80 peak mpg & 600 miles on a tank is still darn good. And it cost $2000 less on the pricetag.

     

    Troy
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