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That's a pretty bold statement "No scientifically significant data can be pulled from this study".
I dismiss most anecdotal evidence on message boards like this. But controlled studies, like this one, are extremely valid and significant.
When 1 out of the 5 hybrids have a tranny failure, well, that's a fluke. But when 4 out of the 5 have a tranny failure (and one has a failure TWICE), that's too coincidental to be a fluke. That tells me, and any logical person looking objectively at the same data, that Honda CVTs have durability problems.
They also have tested a bunch of Prius hybrids, with similar mileage accumulated, and no transmission failures.
My guess (and opinion) is that you will do better selling as a private party. Why let the dealer have all the premium?
Use our Used Car Appraiser and see what the various numbers are - - - - trade-in, private party and dealer retail (what the dealer sells it for after they buy it from you).
Thanks -- I didn't realize Edmunds has TMV for used cars -- that was useful. I am still confused about the KBB trade-in value, though. I checked again, and it shows $2000 below what Edmunds TMV is. I know that Hybrids sell at a premium, but I fully expected that KBB would already reflect that.
KBB - is more a tool for DEALERS and not consumers. KBB does not take into account regional demand like Edmunds TMV does. Like I said before - why let the dealer have all that $ when you could pocket it yourself? You will probably do better advertising and selling the car yourself than going through a trade-in.
Syl, sure the best idea financially is to sell it yourself....but that's assuming he has no debt on the car. Assuming he has paid it off in full in about a little over two years of ownership (not easy to do), he still has to market the vehicle, let buyers drive it, pay for a $150 detail job then keep it spotlessly clean or undriven during this whole process, and then wait on buying a new one for himself until AFTER his car sells, and then plan the timing so that he is without wheels for as short a time as possible, and deal with the title transfer and etc etc etc. :mad: Unless you get lucky and sell it to the first or second person who looks at it, for your FULL asking price, it can get INCREDIBLY frustrating....
I have done it both ways in 26 years of driving, and it's vastly more difficult to sell the car yourself. You EARN any money you make, for sure !!!
Even if you lose a few hundred bucks, it is SO SO much easier to just trade the car in, ESPECIALLY if it is not yet fully paid off.
You can bet he will lose more like a couple grand trading that car in. The best is to buy cash and sell cash. Don't let corporate America enslave you. If you still owe money on the car you just take the buyer into the bank to close the deal. Not really a hassle. I would never trade a vehicle to a dealer. That convolutes the purchase of the new vehicle. It gives them too many ways to stick it to you. Just like the car I just bought. I could have VW 1.9% financing or $1000 off the price for cash. Paying cash was a no brainer.
how do I disconnect the warning buzzer for the seat belt on the '05 honda civic hybrid/manual trans? I generally wear the seat belts, but don't like the idea of my car reminding me to do so & am not interested in discussions about seat belt safety. I just want to locate the buzzer thing & disconnect it. Thanks for help!
so, I guess you don't know how to disconnect it? It's pretty clear that I am seeking a technical solution to the seat belt disconnect issue. the issue is the buzzer. How I feel about seat belts is nobody's business. Can anybody give me a direct, non-philosophical answer? Thanks.
I would advise against trying to go to an "electronics" solution like disconnecting the wire or something like that.....this beep is an integrated safety device and you might mess up something you don't want to mess around with...
thanks so much for 3 very interesting answers. I've tried snapping it behind me, but because of the shoulder strap, the whole contraption behind my back is quite unconfortable. kind of like that princess & the pea thing.. I like the junkyard buckle idea, will try it as soon as possible. I'll just have to remember to carry it with me, so other people driving won't be tempted to use it.
Actually it is an issue. For me it is about a quarter mile to the bottom of my driveway. I stop to put in mail and pick up mail. It is annoying to hear that beeper go off. And it is equally annoying to put the belt on take it off and put it back on. I know your crying tears for me.
I bought a hybrid three weeks ago tomorrow. I am waiting for parts to replace the start clutch. To me this this is a significant transmission repair after 300 miles. Yes its a limited sample but a real user under real conditions.
Hopefully this is not the beginning of a real bad relationship.
I sympathize with the driveway guy. I wear seatbelts all the time & my kids do too, but i don't want my "car" to tell me that I have to wear them in my own driveway. for some reason, it does not beep for the passenger, like some other cars. Also, my 2002 Acura RSX does not beep at all, there's just an idiot lite that blinks. I fixed that with a piece of black electrical tape... What was Honda thinking about, beeping for the driver, but not the passenger... beeping for the Civic, but not the Acura? I also have a Honda motorcyle & it doesn't beep to tell me I should wear a helmet. But I do anyway. There should be a computerized feature to disable it. Has anyone tried hooking up a computer to the car's brain & fiddling with the programming? I haven't tried the computerized tweaking thing yet, but I'm willing to try if anybody has any experiences they can share.. Thanks.
what about the stupid beep you get when your trunk is left open for more than 1 minute, then the alarm goes off when you close the trunk!!? Gee Honda, what if you want to load up the trunk to go on a vacation or something. And the lock-in feature and and and Oh I'll quit whinning.
Not a big deal to take 2 seconds to either just snap on the seat belt, ignore the beeping for that short distance of a minute or two or walk to the end of your driveway to pickup the mail sometimes as an exercise session for the day. It is another issue of taking personal offence at the a car for "telling you what to do."
Consider buying a hybrid? Reconsider after you learned about the long wait? Whether or not you chose to add your name to the waiting list, a reporter is hoping to hear your perspective. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info by May 27, 2005. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds.com
Does anybody know if Honda is planning an update version of the Civic hybrid in 2006? I heard a rumour a new model will be out in September or October.
The entire Civic line will get a new body for 2006, but Honda will make more visual distinction between the standard '06 Civic and the '06 HCH version. The new HCH is also said to have more power and better mileage, to better compete with the 2nd generation Prius.
I would definitely wait for the '06 before buying.
I keep reading postings which proclaim that we who purchase a Civic hybrid will not see our ROI. I have been driving a 2001 F-150 since new (15mpg summer 11mpg winter). I was spending $450 a month for gasoline. I am taking delivery of my 5-speed Civic Hybrid up tonight. I figure I will save 300+ dollars a month just on gasoline which is now $2.33 a gallon in CT. I will saved enough money in 5.5 years to pay for the total cost of my purchase never mind the 3k between a HX and HCH.
"I keep reading postings which proclaim that we who purchase a Civic hybrid will not see our ROI. I have been driving a 2001 F-150 since new (15mpg summer 11mpg winter). I was spending $450 a month for gasoline. I am taking delivery of my 5-speed Civic Hybrid up tonight."
The issue is not changing out from a large vehicle with big engine. You will always save money on gas with a smaller, lighter vehicle with a small engine. The question is how much more one pays for the HCH over a normal Civic, vs. the anticipated MPG difference between the two cars. Put that calculation into your equation and see how long it takes to recover the extra $$ for the purchase of the hybrid over the ICE only version of the same car. Keep in mind that the HCH must be driven carefully to get high MPG numbers. Drive it like you drove your F-150 and you will be lucky to get 40 MPG.
There is an excellent chance that you would see your ROI a year earlier with the ICE version.
BTW, I gather you had the automatic transmission and V-8 engine? I had a 1996 F-150 Super Cab with the 4.2L V6 5 speed, and I got 17 MPG in town, 23 MPG highway.
If you never use your F150 to haul stuff or pull a trailer, it was a wasted investment that has a very low ROI. If you are driving 3000 miles + a month you need a hybrid. It should pay for itself in a very short time.
I did not put $450 worth of gas in my Suburban all last year. That would be way too much driving for me.
As already stated it depends on how he drives it. My old car, a '94 Dodge Spirit 4 cyl was driven like a bat out of hell and I got around 15-17MPG. The last tank in my HCH carried me 886 miles and used 13 point something gallons for over 66MPG.
You never know what may happen in the future, especially with a hybrid car and the efficiency awareness it develops.
Take the calculator to the dealer and check out the price of both Civic-EX and Civic-Hybrid and then calculate the mileage.
With gas prices $2.3/gallon, you may be getting the ROI in around 150,000 miles.
I just went to www.honda.com and priced out a Civic HX, manual transmission with a deck lid spoiler which the HCH has. Here is the pricing.
EX Manual transmission with decklid spoiler $18793 Connecticut 6% Sales tax 1127 Total $19,920
Here in Ct we do not pay sales tax on the HCH. My out the door total price was $20,500.00 subtract the $19,920.00 and I see a $500 difference in price. Remember the HCH comes loaded with everything except a sunroof. You people need to compare apples to apples with product contenct within the Civic product line. End of story next topic.
"You people need to compare apples to apples with product contenct within the Civic product line. End of story next topic."
Other states do not offer the sales tax exemption (CA doesn't), and one can often get a bargain on the non-hybrid cars. So the difference might be 5K or so. Plus, there are cheaper vehicles with similar features, just not from Honda; but that doesn't mean they don't cost less.
Your "apple" should be: a certain class of vehicle (size, weight, engine). That leaves a lot of vehicles to compare. Plus some people (believe it or not) don't like Hondas.
That I'm not sure about....I know we have researched this at gh and the result is a 15.2 gallon tank for the HCH....I did not know this before a couple of months ago either, but mfg tank capacities are many times rated smaler than reality:
To that list you can add the Passat, manual says 16.2 gallons will hold 18.2. The extra is usually in the neck filler tube. At least that is it on the VW.
I had a truck, now semi-retired, that I replaced with the HCH-CVT. My short list was another Dodge Dakota. A one week rental got 13.5mpg. Second was a Mazda RX-8. They weren't available yet, or I might have gone for it. Third was the Civic.
I am saving $1400 verses the truck on gas. I didn't like the standard Civic that my co-worker bought just after I got mine. This is the first small car I've been happy with since my RX-7.
I spent $1005.8 for 478.9 gallons over 21083 miles in the last 12 months. If I use the fuel ratio of 1068/799 from Edmunds to compare it to a Civic LX, that would give me a fuel savings of $338 last year. That's at an average of $2.10 per gallon, which might be a thing of the past.
The new energy bill has, somehow, enabled the State of California to offer hybrid drivers the ability to use the car pool lane even if there's only one person in the car.
In order to get in on this, you need to apply, here: Cal DMV Appln. If you live in the Bay Area, you also need to have a FasTrak transponder. The application fee is $8.00 and you can get the application and information by following the link. Upon acceptance, you get a sticker -- you can't use the car pool lane as a single driver unless you have a sticker. Also, not all hybrids qualify, but HCHs do.
I have been told that there are only a very limited number of these stickers available and that they are provided on a first-come, first-served
My sentiments exactly...I'm very happy with my 05 HCH
I commute 80 miles/day roundtrip and I was SICK of filling my Ford Taurus Sedan every 2-3 days! Now I go 6 DAYS without a fill-up on a normal week of commuting!!
My trip to Washington, DC and beyond to VA Beach from just 40 miles south of Quebec Canada only cost me 2 and 1/3 tanks of gas...I avg 49 MPG on the trip WITH THE A/C on almost constantly because of heat indexes over 100 daily!
Comments
I dismiss most anecdotal evidence on message boards like this. But controlled studies, like this one, are extremely valid and significant.
When 1 out of the 5 hybrids have a tranny failure, well, that's a fluke. But when 4 out of the 5 have a tranny failure (and one has a failure TWICE), that's too coincidental to be a fluke. That tells me, and any logical person looking objectively at the same data, that Honda CVTs have durability problems.
They also have tested a bunch of Prius hybrids, with similar mileage accumulated, and no transmission failures.
Use our Used Car Appraiser and see what the various numbers are - - - - trade-in, private party and dealer retail (what the dealer sells it for after they buy it from you).
Same in Southern California. Put it up for sale private for $17k and you will probably sell it faster than you think.
I have done it both ways in 26 years of driving, and it's vastly more difficult to sell the car yourself. You EARN any money you make, for sure !!!
Even if you lose a few hundred bucks, it is SO SO much easier to just trade the car in, ESPECIALLY if it is not yet fully paid off.
You can bet he will lose more like a couple grand trading that car in. The best is to buy cash and sell cash. Don't let corporate America enslave you. If you still owe money on the car you just take the buyer into the bank to close the deal. Not really a hassle. I would never trade a vehicle to a dealer. That convolutes the purchase of the new vehicle. It gives them too many ways to stick it to you. Just like the car I just bought. I could have VW 1.9% financing or $1000 off the price for cash. Paying cash was a no brainer.
Mike
I like the junkyard buckle idea, will try it as soon as possible. I'll just have to remember to carry it with me, so other people driving won't be tempted to use it.
(This is almost BLASPHEMY for me - I am a "use your seat belt at any cost" advocate - I even have a "use your seatbelt" in my e-mail signature.)
Hopefully this is not the beginning of a real bad relationship.
I absolutly hate the alarms on this car!!!!
It is another issue of taking personal offence at the a car for "telling you what to do."
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
I would definitely wait for the '06 before buying.
Mike
I figure I will save 300+ dollars a month just on gasoline which is now $2.33 a gallon in CT. I will saved enough money in 5.5 years to pay for the total cost of my purchase never mind the 3k between a HX and HCH.
The issue is not changing out from a large vehicle with big engine. You will always save money on gas with a smaller, lighter vehicle with a small engine. The question is how much more one pays for the HCH over a normal Civic, vs. the anticipated MPG difference between the two cars. Put that calculation into your equation and see how long it takes to recover the extra $$ for the purchase of the hybrid over the ICE only version of the same car. Keep in mind that the HCH must be driven carefully to get high MPG numbers. Drive it like you drove your F-150 and you will be lucky to get 40 MPG.
There is an excellent chance that you would see your ROI a year earlier with the ICE version.
BTW, I gather you had the automatic transmission and V-8 engine? I had a 1996 F-150 Super Cab with the 4.2L V6 5 speed, and I got 17 MPG in town, 23 MPG highway.
I did not put $450 worth of gas in my Suburban all last year. That would be way too much driving for me.
With gas prices @ $2.3/gallon, you may be getting the ROI in around 150,000 miles.
My old car, a '94 Dodge Spirit 4 cyl was driven like a bat out of hell and I got around 15-17MPG.
The last tank in my HCH carried me 886 miles and used 13 point something gallons for over 66MPG.
You never know what may happen in the future, especially with a hybrid car and the efficiency awareness it develops.
With gas prices $2.3/gallon, you may be getting the ROI in around 150,000 miles.
I just went to www.honda.com and priced out a Civic HX, manual transmission with a deck lid spoiler which the HCH has. Here is the pricing.
EX Manual transmission with decklid spoiler $18793
Connecticut 6% Sales tax 1127
Total $19,920
Here in Ct we do not pay sales tax on the HCH. My out the door total price was
$20,500.00 subtract the
$19,920.00 and I see a $500 difference in price. Remember the HCH comes loaded with everything except a sunroof. You people need to compare apples to apples with product contenct within the Civic product line. End of story next topic.
I think your tank only holds 13.5 gallons? Man, I wouldn't let it run that low if I was in your place...
Other states do not offer the sales tax exemption (CA doesn't), and one can often get a bargain on the non-hybrid cars. So the difference might be 5K or so. Plus, there are cheaper vehicles with similar features, just not from Honda; but that doesn't mean they don't cost less.
Your "apple" should be: a certain class of vehicle (size, weight, engine). That leaves a lot of vehicles to compare. Plus some people (believe it or not) don't like Hondas.
Is this the same as the ICE Civic? I have run ours down to below E and only put in a little over 13 gallons.
Manufacturer stated tank capacities:
03 Acura MDX: 19.2 gallons
03 Ford Ranger: 16.5 gallons
05 Honda Accord PZEV: 17.1 gallons
04 Honda Civic Hybrid - ULEV: 13.2 gallons
00 Honda Insight: 10.6 gallons
03 Toyota Corolla: 13.2 gallons
Actual max fuel tank capacity per owners who have filled these amounts:
03 Acura MDX: 22.92 gallons
03 Ford Ranger: 16.649 gallons
05 Honda Accord PZEV: 18.972 gallons
04 Honda Civic Hybrid - ULEV: 15.2 gallons
00 Honda Insight: 13.895 gallons
03 Toyota Corolla: 14.957 gallons
( That data comes from Xcel via another site...I claim no rights as such....
I had a truck, now semi-retired, that I replaced with the HCH-CVT.
My short list was another Dodge Dakota. A one week rental got 13.5mpg.
Second was a Mazda RX-8. They weren't available yet, or I might have gone for it.
Third was the Civic.
I am saving $1400 verses the truck on gas. I didn't like the standard Civic that my co-worker bought just after I got mine. This is the first small car I've been happy with since my RX-7.
I spent $1005.8 for 478.9 gallons over 21083 miles in the last 12 months.
If I use the fuel ratio of 1068/799 from Edmunds to compare it to a Civic LX, that would give me a fuel savings of $338 last year. That's at an average of $2.10 per gallon, which might be a thing of the past.
I think I'll make up my cost verses a new EX.
In order to get in on this, you need to apply, here: Cal DMV Appln. If you live in the Bay Area, you also need to have a FasTrak transponder. The application fee is $8.00 and you can get the application and information by following the link. Upon acceptance, you get a sticker -- you can't use the car pool lane as a single driver unless you have a sticker. Also, not all hybrids qualify, but HCHs do.
I have been told that there are only a very limited number of these stickers available and that they are provided on a first-come, first-served
My sentiments exactly...I'm very happy with my 05 HCH
I commute 80 miles/day roundtrip and I was SICK of filling my Ford Taurus Sedan every 2-3 days! Now I go 6 DAYS without a fill-up on a normal week of commuting!!
My trip to Washington, DC and beyond to VA Beach from just 40 miles south of Quebec Canada only cost me 2 and 1/3 tanks of gas...I avg 49 MPG on the trip WITH THE A/C on almost constantly because of heat indexes over 100 daily!