Infiniti G37 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

waltaz

I have not done a deal yet as I've been gone. I have been looking at no trade-in, but that may change.

It a good price is negotiated on the price of the '08 G, it makes it more difficult to get the full value on your trade.

Walt

sergeym

With 0 down, tax not included I've got around $420 per month. Need more details abou those $2,200 "out the door".

kobayashi

Negotiate the best deal on the car and do not mention the potential trade-in. Then when satisfied it is a fair price for the new car, appraise the trade-in. The price they give you may be effected by now using that as a deal breaker. What is the point of getting an lukewarm deal on the new car just to see an inflated trade-in. In the end the money will be the same - you know the exact costs prices on the new car, use that to your advantage. The trade-in value is probably more flexible, but should not be at the expense of a worse deal on the new car.

dwynne

If you have a nice trade - for sure if you are trading an Infiniti in towards an Infiniti - something they call sell on the lot, you should come out OK on the trade. Most dealers make way more on each used car sale than they do on a new car sale.

So if you have a clean G coupe or sedan to trade toward a new G, then they should be able to give you a decent price on the trade. If you have some old beater or something hard to sell, then they are just going to wholesale it out - either to another dealer or to the auction. With that kinds of trade you will truly be getting wholesale money for your current ride.

I would advise taking the trade to places like CarMax or DriversWay to get a feel for what someone will give for the car. Then, as you suggest, make the deal on the new car and then say "That is a real nice deal, but to take you up on it I need to get rid of my current ride." and see what they will do. You now what you could sell it for if you had to, and a dealer should offer you more than that on a trade - for sure on a desirable trade. You want to deal the price low on the new car then make the trade the final part to the puzzle - if they really want to sell you the new car then they have to give you some decent money on the trade.

Dennis

waltaz

The G will be for my wife, and I need to unload her '04 Honda Accord EX-V6 with average miles. Very clean. It's a very desirable used car. Even so, the dealer will try to hose me on it.

I could sell it myself, but the two real big advantages with trading it are:
- The value of the trade comes off the taxable part of the new car purchase. That's around $1000 right there.
- The convenience factor of just trading it in and being done with it.

That said, based on what you just outlined Dennis, I need to hold out for a good trade value because it IS a very desirable used vehicle for them to sell. It's just hard holding that line sometimes...

I also hate, when asked upfront, "Will you be trading a car in?", to just outright lie, then when I've negotiated a deal on the new car, say "Oh, by the way, I've got a car to trade in..."

dwynne

Depending on what normal miles is, it looks like you can expect $13k or so so your trade. Her in high tax land that would save you $910 in sales tax - if you are buying the new G. On a lease, it would not make a lot of difference (most states).

A used Accord is the gold standard of used cars, but maybe not at an Infiniti lot. If they have no interest it selling it, then they will sell it to a Honda dealer or little used car lot or simply send it to the auction. In any case if they are not going to keep it they will not be able to give you much for for it. The general rule is "wholesale to wholesale, retail to retail" - so if you want to pay just over invoice for a new car then they will expect to pay you about wholesale (auction value) for your trade. If you will pay MSRP for your new car, then they can pay you a whole lot more for your trade.

You could always say "I think we have a buyer lined up for our Accord" and then later tell them "The sale of our Accord fell through, so we need to trade it in" - or something like that.

I agree that it is not a good thing to lie, but maybe you could shade the truth. You get into the same problem if you say you are going to lease up front - they start hitting you with payment amounts trying to disguise the selling price of the car.

I do most of my dealing over the Internet or phone and with the "Internet sales people" this is not as big an issue - they give you their best price without too much hassle and may even be able to estimate on your trade before you ever go to the dealership.

Dennis

vik_kid

A couple of things... firstly, how did you come up with an invoice price of $36642... I put in the options that you mentioned(please look at the table below) and got an invoice of $35927. Secondly, edmunds doesnt list Cargo Mat as an option for the AWD sedan(but it may very well not be the case in reality). This is what my calculations suggests-

Price- MSRP........Price-Invoice
Base(AWD).......................................$34,350.................$31,587
P01 Premium Package.....................$2,300...................$1,982
U01 Infiniti Navigation Package.......$2,150...................$1,853
T01 Performance Tire
and Wheel Package.................$400.....................$345
B95 Painted Splash Guards..............$150.....................$114
T93 Trunk Cargo Mat........................$100......................$75
TOTAL WITH OPTIONS.....................$39,450.................$35,956

These are the DMV & state related(NON-DEALER) taxes and fees that I know* of(please update this list if Ive left out any)

NJ Registration Fee..............$84.0
Tire Tax.................................$7.5
Title......................................$20.0
Sales Tax-approx..............$2552.0
Total Sales & DMV.............$2663.5

Now given the above #'s, it looks like you will be paying $305 less than invoice(according to your calculation) for CAR + DESTINATION + ALL DEALER FEES, which according to many would be concidered a great deal(below invoice). But with the invoice that I calculated it comes to $380 ABOVE invoice. This maybe concidered a fair deal nevertheless... Here is the detailed calcs-

OTD Price(with tax & fees).............................$39000
Tax,Title & Registration(approx)....................$2663.5
OTD- Tax Title& non dealer fees(approx).......$36336.5
Invoice Price 1.............................................. $36642.............(-$305.5)
Invoice Price 2...............................................$35956.............($380.5)

Vik

dwynne

Those look like pre-price increase numbers. I put those options in at carsdirect.com and come up with $40,125 for MSRP and $36,642 for invoice.

If the car you select at the dealer was made/delivered before the price increase at the end of Jan, your MSRP and invoice would be around $210 less. The exact amount varies (it appears) based on model and options.

Dennis

george8100

Hey guys, I'm new on here and i'm from ct.. I was researching to see if I got a good deal on my lease quote.. I spent 3 hours at the dealership, and put down a $500 Refundable deposit.. Any help on how I did would be GREATLY appreciated!

2008 G37 Journey 2dr auto

cargo net
illuminated kick plate
navagation package
premium package
splash gaurds
rear spoiler
sports package
trunk mats

$2,470 down payment + 530 first month payment = $3,000

$530.00 per month, 39 month lease, 15,000 miles per year

That's tax, title, reg

He first came at me with like 680 a month and me and my brother in law laughed at him.. we kept getting him to drop the price, and at last this was pretty much his final bottom line offer.. IS THIS A GOOD PRICE?

Thanks in advance guys

-George-

vik_kid

I found the cause for the discrepency. Two things should have been different in my cals-
a. Add destination charge to price(+715)
b. Remove Cargo mat(-$75 on inv)
c. Add Cargo Net (+$46 on inv)

Thus the total invoice comes to
35956 + 715 - 75 + 46 = 36642

So that answers my questions )

vik_kid

Hey George,
In any car deal, lease or buy, the most important number is the selling price of the car. Ask yourself these questions- how close is this number to the invoice price? would you be able to get it any cheaper if you bought car?...Even if you have decided that you want to lease the car no matter what, getting to know that you can BUY the car at a lesser price, can help you negotiate. Remember that the selling price of the car should not be any different for a lease. The MSRP on the car with the options you want is $44445, and invoice is at $40387. So what was your selling price?
Secondly, if I were you(and if I could redo my lease deal 2 years back), I would not put down ANY money. Because unlike a purchase this amount DOES NOT help your cause; its like prepaying your monthly house rent ahead of time to "reduce" your monthly payment- read this article for a better explanation - http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/102826/article.html
Also, post more details of your deal, so we may analyze- MSRP, selling price, fees charged by the dealership, money factor, residual value or dep factor(for 39 mos), your state(to calculate tax) etc etc....

dwynne

As was mentioned, you need to negotiate the price of the car just as if you are paying for it and not leasing it.

Naturally, they are going to make you think you are getting a good deal by hitting you with some high number and then hoping you will jump on the deal when they lower the price.

I would never spend 3 hours of my life at a dealership, you are just wasting time.

You deal online with the "Internet sales department" and get all the numbers in place - you only need to go to a dealership to test drive and sign papers/pick up the car.

What state do you live in? That matters because of the taxes on the leases vary so much in the way they are applied and the rate.

It looks like a terrible deal, unless you are some insane tax state - you are paying $3k at signing and doing a 39 month lease and your car is not all that loaded and your payment is $530 per month.

To get the whole picture, we need the state where you live and tax rate, price you are paying for the car, residual, etc, etc.

I am always real suspicious of round numbers - you pay exactly $3k down and your payment is $530. In "real life" with a great deal lease you end up with odd numbers almost every time.

Dennis

george8100

hey guys, thanks for your help.. I live in CT so the tax rate is at 6%..

The MSRP was 44,195 and i he brought it down to 41,158 - 1,000 over invoice

Then we did some more negiotiating and we changed some numbers and he was like listen the best i can do is 530 and some change and i was like i like even numbers so he said 530 even lol.. The 3000 includes the first month, so it would really only be 2,470 down.

I thought this was a good deal because it's a 15,000 miles a year and it was pretty we'll loaded..

What price do you guys think that I should be around?

I appreciate this help

vik_kid

Its all numbers my friend.... So pass on the other #'s you got for what I asked in the prev post(money factor, dealer charges etc)-without that I can not say if its you can do any better or not; sometimes the dealer adds inflated fees to makeup for reducing the sales price of the car. Also remember ANY money you put down will ONLY COST YOU MONEY not save. Let me give you an egs-

Your monthly payment with $3000 down is $530 for 39 months
=> total amount paid = $3000 + ($530*39)= $20670

If you refused to pay any money down, then the monthly payment will change to $606.92
=> total amount paid = 0 + ($606*39) = $20670

You still pay the same amt of money!! in fact you will LOOSE any interest your $3000 would have made in a bank!!!--- Use the edmunds calculator and see for yourself.
The way the interest is calculated makes this the case...its almost like signing for a loan with a FIXED lending period, the interest month over month REMAINS the same!!

But mind you, I'm not discouraging you from leasing... leasing is good in certain situations, you can find such materials online. But what trumps a lease on financing are the deals/incentives being offered. Leasing as a concept is not "cheaper" rather a "costly" habit, what I would call a BCB factor- "bang for the buck factor" Remember you HAVE to lease or buy another car at the end of your lease... look for incentives such as lower money factor(vs a higher interest rate if buying), cash incentives to list a few- these are the things that genuinely improve your BCB factor. Please use the buy vs. lease calculator to see which method is benificial for the deal that was offered to you- if you are open to leasing as well as buying.
I'm not sure if CT requires you to pay sales tax on the selling price of the car, or if its only on the monthly payments. If its the former, forget about it!

Please send in your numbers, lets see whats happening here.

george8100

[non-permissible content removed] lol... i have to find out what all of those numbers were.. i never really looked into them to much.. i just figured infiniti was advertising a $36,500 model for $2500 down and 449 pr month not including tax, title, reg 12k lease..

So to me (never leased before lol) I figured a 44,500 model for $3000 down, 15k a year, everything included for 530 a month was a good deal.. I have to look into those numbers now because you got me thingking lol

vik_kid

George,
Remember, its not always possible for everybody to buy a car like the G37. Also, the G37 holds its value well, so leasing is NOT neccesarily a bad thing. So you would have to weigh the advantages/disadvantages before leasing.
Do your homework George, its increasingly a buyers market, there is no hurry for you to close the deal tomorrow! I have also found that with current deals(like 2.9% apr for 60 mos on a purchase, at the end of 39mos, your interst paid would be much lower than the interest you would have paid for the lease deals; even if the lease had a money factor equivalant to 2.9% apr). I found this article to be very helpful to understand leasing, please go through it - http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/48365/article.html
Put it up an excell, and see what happens when you manupulate different components in there. Good luck with your research. Please come back and let me know how it worked out for you.

george8100

so hey guys.. i ended up shoppin around and just calling everywhere around here possible and getting them to compete against each other.. cheapest numbers i got were a guy out of ny.. $3000 down, 487 a month.. cheapest around me in ct was at like $520, and the dealer i had gone to asked what it would take to keep me, and said there was no way he can do 487.. we agree'd at $500 a month, 39 months, $3,000 down.. i know there's no point in my puttin the money down, but i would rather put it down then to have a higher car payment lol...

now the way i look at it is that it's going to cost me 500x39 = $19,500 +$2500 down = $22,000 to drive around a $45,000 car for 39 months.. To me, i think thats a good deal.

If i was to buy the car @ 2.9% financing, at say a out the door price of 42,000 it would cost me about $760/month or so for 60 months.. After 39 months I would have paid off $29,640. I would still owe about $14,000 because of intrest. so I would sell the car for $25,000 and have $11,000 left over.

If i take the extra $260 a month and save it over 39 months = $10,140.. I can use that against my mortage, put it into a ira etc..

Personally, not much of a difference and I would have a way smaller car payment.. Personally, just easier on me.

So does this make any sense? You see my point now about this all? i still didnt get the numbers u were askin about lol.. personally, i was just goin by the final numbers lol

dwynne

You can approach dealing on a lease any way you want, and who knows you could get lucky and get a good deal.

That is not the way *I* would do it and not they way I would recommend anyone else approach getting a good lease deal.

You know the invoice, dealer incentives (if any), and the lease buy rate. You deal the price down near invoice, less incentives and including any dealer doc/prep fees. Then you apply the lease buy rate, local taxes, tags, title and you are done - with a nice deal.

Dennis

allbiz

Anyone have some insight into the Infifnity Pre-Paid Maintenance package. They ar eoffering a Premium maintenance package paid upfront for $1000 savings. All reccomended services are done in this plan. anyone have detaisl or info about this?

dwynne

More than likely this is a rip off.

Take the maintenance schedule and look at what needs to be done. Call a few local Infiniti dealers and find out their prices for oil changes, etc. See what can be done elsewhere (most all of it) or by you (depends on your skill level) and how much that would cost.

Total it up and compare to the pre-paid price and I think you will see that it is not worth giving them your money up front.

Of course, a lot depends on how many miles you drive and how long you are keeping the car - and the prices.

It would be nice if Infiniti included maintenance with the cars like BMW and others. They might have to charge a bit more for them, but it would avoid having to pay some dealer's rip-off maintenance prices.

Dennis

vik_kid

What is the money factor on your lease deal?... The difference in the cost between leasing and buying will be a little higher than what you projected... I calculated this on BankRate.com (leave vs. buy calculator)-

Buy
Price $42,000.00
Interest rate 2.90%
Down payment $2,500.00
Other fees buy $0.00
Rate of depreciation 13% (if the car's residual value is 57% after 39mos, it depreciates at the rate of 13%/annum)
Sales tax $2,520.00
Loan amount $42,020.00
Loan payment $754.86

Net cost of buying
Total loan payments + $29,439.45
Lost interest on buy option + $573.13
Down payment + $2,500.00
Market value after 39 months* - $27,657.13
Ending loan balance + $15,425.71
Net cost of purchase = $20,281.16

Lease
Price $42,000.00
Interest rate 5.99%
Down payment $2,500.00
Other fees lease $100.00
Residual percent 57%
Security deposit $500.00
Lease payment $593.13

Net cost of leasing
Total lease payments + $23,132.26
Lost interest on up front costs + $312.58
Up front costs + $2,600.00
Net cost of lease = $26,044.83

As you can see the difference in the cost is somewhere around 6000. But the interesting thing about buying is the fact that after 5 years(end of your payments) your car still holds value!! according to cnn money the G37 is projected to hold as much as 52! after 5 years( http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0711/gallery.2007_best_resale_value_to- p_10/3.html ).... meaning that you can "potentially" sell the car for as much as $21K+.after 5 years.. which could mean that you drove a G37 for 5 years, for $24103 ($45943 - $21840)- AFTER TAXES and INTEREST!!! whew thats only $400/month for 60 months .... so if your only intention is "value" then buy the car.

BUT, since we are not debating lease vs buy here...lets get back on track..

My suggestion- look at the BOTTOM LINE COST of leasing, not your monthly payments(monthly payments can be decreased with the down payment- every $1000, wiil bring down the $/month by $25 for a 39month lease. Go to this calculator on bankrate.com http://www.bankrate.com/brm/calculators/auto/lease_or_buy_car.asp

enter your lease terms and it will provide you the bottom line cost of your deal. Also see how any amt you put down does very little to your overall cost...

Best of luck with your car shopping..">

kman1311

Did the $250 price increase in January effect only the MSRP or did it also affect the invoice price as well? I am not sure if I should be adjusting the invoice price based on this increase or not..

Thanks for the info..
Randy

dwynne

Up to $250 (depends on options, it seems) and yes the invoice went up as well - around the same amount.

When you find a car you want, not all the equipment and the total with destination on the sticker. Look up the invoice online at Edmunds, KBB, or carsdirect.com for the same car with the same equipment. If the MSRP total matches what is on the sticker of the car you found, then the invoice should be correct. If the invoice online is MORE then the car you found is pre-price increase to take the difference in MSRPs from the online invoice to get "about" the invoice on your car. If the MSRP online is less that the MSRP of your car, then the online source you used has the old prices and you have a post 1/31/08 car. Either use a different source to get the correct numbers, or add the difference in MSRPs to the online invoice.

Dennis

mrtaylor40

would like to know if the following is a good deal?

2008 g35 journey, premium, nav packages , with sports tires

out the door for $ 36,658.50

I live in north carolina

allbiz

Anyone have a suggesstion on using synthetic oil or regular for a new 08 G35X? Also, does this car require premium gas only?

dwynne

We have no idea what your taxes, title, and tags run. Post what you paid for the car, destination, and any dealer doc/prep fees. OTD prices are meaningless unless I live in the same county / city / state you do.

Dennis

dwynne

All the G models (maybe all Infiniti vehicles) call for premium fuel. That said, most modern engine management systems include knock sensors that can detect pre-detonation and change the timing so it does not harm the engine. The downside is that you will not get the rated power and proper performance. I also don't KNOW for a fact that your G has such a sensor .

Some folks claim you have to wait until some many thousand miles to change to synthetic, but I have owned cars that came from the factory with full synthetic in them - and Mobile says you can switch to full synthetic at any time. To me, the key is getting the oil and filter changed frequently so while full synth is "better" than dino oil it costs a lot more and if you leave it in for longer really is no better for the motor. So if use full synth you need to change it and the filter at the same interval as dino oil (for the warranty if nothing else), so it gets quite expensive. If you have your dealer change your oil as most Infiniti owners do, it will get REALLY expensive to pay them for full synth. If you do your own oil changes in the back yard, then changing often with synth is probably cheaper than paying a dealer for dino oil. If you change your oil and filter as often as is recommended and use the grade and weight of oil Infiniti calls for you should have no problems.

Dennis

mpielert

I am looking for the same configuration, and I am getting dealer quotes at $34,500 before taxes, tags, and title (basically $200 under invoice). How does this compare to your deal?

steevo

First of all the lease in your example is a crap deal.
The 24 and 36 month leases are at 2.9 to 3.5% with 71 and 61% residuals respectively. Also the reduced street price of an expensive car like this will have a larger effect on a lease than a buy because of the shorter term.
Your arguments would make more sense if you were telling people to buy an Altima instead of leasing a G35. OR maybe if you compare a base base g35 buy to leasing a fully loaded model.
The buy only makes sense when you plan on keeping the car more than 5 years, my opinion at least 7 to 10 years. Of course you then have maintenance costs to consider.
The same argument you use could be made that its cheaper to pay CASH than to finance for 5 years. Or cheaper to finance for 2 years at 1.9 than 5 at 3.9. What would be the point in telling someone who doesn't have 42000 laying around that its cheaper to pay cash than to finance?

waltaz

Here is what I'm offering to a couple Infiniti dealers in the Phoenix metro area for an '08 G35 Journey Platinum Graphite/Stone with the P01 Premium package. No Sport or Navi for this vehicle - it's for my wife, and she'll be confused enough with all the electronics it has.

Anyways, what do you think of this (I sent personal e-mails to the internet salespeople I've talked with):

I appreciate your help and patience. I wanted to lay out my offer for you.

The $399 doc fee (if I recall correctly) is the doc fee…not much I can do about it. Extra profit for the dealer (not just me saying that…it is).

On the tint and cargo net (I think those were your dealer add-ons), I’ll give you $150 for them. The common “tip” is to refuse to pay for those add-ons at all, but I think $150 is fair.

On the price, the invoice for a G35 Journey with the P01 Premium Package is as follows:
- Base invoice price: $29,709
- P01 invoice price: $2,155
- Destination: $715
Total invoice price, incl. Destination: $32,579

This vehicle also include holdback of $910 (a fact), making the dealer cost on the vehicle $31,669 ($32,579 - $910). Again, that dealer cost figure is a fact.

I’m not going to ask you to dip into the holdback, but I am going to ask you to sell the vehicle to me at $200 over invoice. The total would be:
- Selling price of vehicle, incl. Destination (G35 Journey with P01, Platinum Graphite/Stone): $32,779 ($200 over invoice)
- Tint/Cargo net: $150
Total vehicle cost: $32,929

I absolutely believe that you need to make a profit on each vehicle…it’s just that it’s a much closer deal on mine. My proposal gives you a profit over dealer cost of $1,110 (assuming the tint/cargo net are a wash) + the $399 doc fee, or approximately $1,509, which works out to be about 4.8%. I think that is fair for both of us.

I’m carrying on a similar dialogue with another local Infiniti dealer that has this particular vehicle. If you; however, let me know that you can do the deal as outlined above, I will come in tomorrow (Friday) or this weekend to close it with you. I know you’ve got the vehicle I’m interested in, but I’m in no particular hurry to get it.

Also, I plan on financing with IFS at 2.9% for 48 or 60-months, so you guys will get some juice on that to sweeten the deal for you.

That's it...and a thank you.

What do you think of that particular deal?

pk2949

Waltaz,

You are offering a decent deal to the dealers.
I looked at the G37s in the Phoenix market: Infiniti of Scottsdale and Pinnacle.
Both were ready to offer the G37 at invoice price.
Having said that, you should be able to do better with G35's as they are not selling as well as G37.
The doc fee is negotiable. One of the folks refused to pay it and they went along with it. Instead to negotiating it, I would substract it from your offer price.
In my opinion you should offer them 500 below invoice. Pinnacle may take your offer ( after harrassing you a bit)., Just stick to your price !

dwynne

The cargo net is probably a port installed option (around here most Gs have them in them PIO). If so, you have to pay the additional invoice amount that Infiniti uses for that option ($46).

I don't know if I would go into all that math and detail. Call around the local tint shops and find out how much they would charge to do a new G sedan - that is what the tint is worth (I would assume if you live in AZ you WOULD be getting tint if it were not on the car). I paid $55 to get 2 windows done on my xB (to match the other windows) - this was quality tint at a quality shop. I would assume a full tint on a sedan might run $300 or more. I am sure the dealer gets it done a lot cheaper than you and I can get it done, however. In AZ there may be so many tint shops it costs less to get a good job done that it does here?

I think I would offer them $300 over actual invoice plus their doc fee and see what they said, but if the tint is really worth several hundred then you might have to up your offer and/or except a counter offer. I don't see any need to get into how much they make, their percentage, the hold back, any of that. Just "$300 over actual invoice plus your normal doc fee" and you might mention you would be doing IFS financing.

The dealer knows how much they are making at any price point and they don't need you to explain it to them or your logic behind it.

Dennis

allbiz

This sounds liek a great deal if you can get it. I just purchased a 08 G35X with Prem ,Nav and tech package for 37,750. I think I received a good deal as well since the invoice was 40,575. This was fair. Thoughts?

kobayashi

I believe INVOICE was $37,245 for the car optioned as you mentioned (at the new prices). So your $37,750 price seems fair at $500 or so over invoice, or $250 less if it was existing stock.

happycamry

Wow. Giving them a $1500, or 4.8% profit is way high. They'll take a 3% profit in today's market. They get that 3% profit basically in the holdback they get from Nissan.

I was able to buy the same car and same package for about $100 under invoice recently. That includes their so-called must have dealer fee.

I suggest you use the spreadsheet at carbuying tips.com. Plug in a 3% profit, or more if you wish. I added in the holdback at the exact figure you are using but called it something like factory to dealer incentives and left it at that.

I don't know the Phoenix market personally but can tell you that my market is higher than many and I was still able to get the deal, even after the dealer swore they couldn't do better than $800 more than what's mentioned above. If you dont' mind driving over to Southern Cal. you can do very well indeed.

Also, the dealer only gains from the 2.9 financing in that it brings in buyers. Dealers much prefer to arrange their own financing and they profit greatly from that, but not from Infiniti's low current financing. So, that doesn't sweeten the deal for them. So, leave that out of your discussions. Just be sure to get pre-approved so you don't get any headaches at the last minute.

Insist on a FIRM out the door price or nasty surprises can creep in, too.

Let us know how you make out!

For what you are offering them in today's market, most dealers would happily jump at a high $1500 profit.

waltaz

Well, $910 of that is the holdback, which I understand to be generally untouchable. So I feel I'm "giving" them the $200 above invoice + the dealer doc fee, which stays on regardless.

I'm sensing that this is about the best I can do in the Phoenix market. There are four dealers, and three are owned by the same company. But I'm going to work it...

happycamry

That's just not true, Waltaz, With all due respect, you're being taken in by and well known tactics. The dealer doc fee is pure profit and needs to be treated as such in negotiations. Now that every buyer knows the invoice price and think they are being smart by negotiating up from invoice, holdback becomes the way that a heady profit is always built in to the dealer + whatever they can get on top of invoice. Some really hot new cars do go for far over invoice, but the G Sedan can now be had for way less than you are offering, dramatically so.

If you check out the spreadsheet at carbuyingtips.com and do some searching to learn the "fax attack" method of faxing firm OTD offers to general managers, and time to the end of the month, you'll be amazed at how much you can save.

Carbuyingtips.com is really educational for great buyer advice, too. The market is SLOW. You will get a deal.

waltaz

You guys are killing me...I was thinking I'd be doing well to pay just over invoice...and I mean just over...irregardless of the dealer doc fee and the holdback. The deals you're talking about sure don't seem to be here in the Phoenix area. It's not that I'm a newbie or don't know what the hell I'm doing either; I'm pretty good at tough negotiating.

Now I feel that they should be paying me to drive the damn thing away... :confuse:

happycamry

It's true that the dealers do suck the fun out of the process with their tactics. Once you are finally done, you'll be very happy once you get behind the wheel!

jeffmo2334

I am looking at getting a 2008 G35 -- love the ride, and the interior is awesome!

The price is a little higher than I would like to spend, and I know some of the dealerships around me are selling demos with several thousand miles on them (2008's).

How much of a discount would you expect to get on a demo? It is still untitled, so could still get the special financing, but it does have several thousand miles on it, and would have less warranty time left.

During my test drive, the salesman mentioned that they really want to move them.

How much is reasonable to expect? I know they would take $1000 under new invoice, but is that too generous to give them? Is $2000 under reasonable? More?
Just wanting to find out what you all think.

erving6

Waltaz,
I feel your pain as I am also getting the same vibe from the Phoenix area dealers. I have not gotten too hard into the negotiations yet but so far the best I have seen is 500 over invoice for a G35 Journey/prem/sport.

I am still not exactly sure which invoice price to use after the price increase even though Dennis explained it to me in a previous post. I will probably just error on my side of the ledger and go with the pre price increase invoice since I would think that there are so many other areas where they can make up the 250 difference (ie.doc fee).

Thanks to Dennis as his and everyone's posts are helpful. His note about 300 over invoice in the Phx market looks like it may be pretty close to what you can get out here in the desert. I guess you never know until you show up with a firm price and are ready to walk out..

Good luck and let me know how you make out.

dwynne

Inside of a 2 hour drive (one way) from me there is ONE Infiniti dealer. Around a 3 hour drive (one way) will net you just 6 dealerships - and NONE of these is any closer than 2 hours from each and most 3+ hours away for each other.

Happycamry can talk all about his "fax attack" and other ideas about about getting great deals - and they may work in SoCal of someplace where dealers are around ever corner, but if there is little dealer choice (and they no it) then they are not as inclined to feel the need for competing against each other.

Go to the dealer locator and put in an LA ZIP code and 100 miles - 17 dealerships come up. For a Phoenix ZIP code and 100 miles 5 come up, 9 for a Chicago area ZIP, San Diego shows 12, San Francisco show 10, NYC shows a whopping 24 dealers inside 100 miles. My area shows 1.

If I had to choose where to car shop and where I would feel I could get the best deal and to (really) get dealers competing for my money which of those areas would I choose? Which would areas would appear to be the hardest to score a deal in?

Don't drive yourself nuts over what someone else SAYS they paid for a car SOMEWHERE else at some other time. Unless you are willing to travel to their location and by a car under similar circumstances then there could be no way for you to get the deal they SAY they got. In some cases a little travel can get you a better deal and it IS something to look into.

Keep in mind, some folks post a nice price and then you later find out they also paid a $500 or more "doc fee" on top of the price. Some folks just plain post the wrong prices - by accident or on purpose.

You can try for your best price where you live and check out prices in cities within an easy travel from where you live, but if none of the dealers is willing to deal down as low as you think they should you can either expand your search or simply wait. If the dealers you worked with get more desperate for a sale they will likely contact you to see if you are still in the market - and perhaps offer you a better price. If you don't hear from them, then you could contact them at the end of the month and see if they will drop their best offer at that time. If you are trying to take advantage of special finance or lease options, those could go away and change at any time. It does not do you much good to finally get the dealer to drop the price $300 only to find that the 2.9% financing is gone and you are stuck at 5% or more.

You have to also consider diminishing returns - if you spend lots of your time and lots of travel to save $200 or something then you are just wasting your time (at least *I* value my free time highly and don't spend it cheaply). If you are driving around in a beater waiting to save a few bucks then that too seems nuts - go ahead and get your new car and enjoy it even if you have to pay a bit more. $200 on a $40k deal is 0.5%, $500 is 1.25%. Yes it is still money and yes you don't want to spend any more than you have to, but in the long term if you get the car you want at a nice price and nice terms then you have a good deal. No matter what someone else SAYS they paid somewhere else and at some other time.

Dennis

mrv1

Hello Dennis:

I've been working with dealers via e-mail.

Can you please help me and verify if my offer is realistic. I'm offering lease at invoice.

G35x w/premium,nav,splash guards,and cargo net.

MSRP is 39475 mfg before 1/08.

I estimate invoice at 36071.

595 lease aquisition fee in the lease

Net Cap Cost would be 36666.

Residual would be 71% = 28027.25

MF = .00123

2year lease with 12k per year

247.50 = MV docs,registration,title and tire disposal

NJ tax rate is 7%

Monthly 470.29 includes tax.

OTD = 717.79 with 23 remaining monthly payments.

At invoice is this a correct rate calculation.

Thanks for your help.

allbiz

I just bought a new 2008 g35X with 11 miles on it. I noticed some smoke and burning smell coming form the engine and they told me it was normal for the first 100 miles since the engines come with some kind of coating on them from Japan? Is this true or just a bunch of bull. I never heard this or saw any posts about it. Any insight would be appreciated.

kobayashi

There will be a smell as the cosmoline or similar protectant put on the cars for the long ocean ride burns off the new car. Not so sure about a lot of visible smoke, but the smell will be there for a few miles.

dat2

I would think anything more than 1 grand below dealer invoice would be a great price on a demo with a couple thousand miles. Good luck! Where are these dealers located?

happycamry

Thanks, but I can't take credit for the fax attack method. It's well known and has worked for me wonderfully on the last two cars purchased. Several colleagues and friends have also used it with great success. It helps you cut out the dealer BS and get straight to a real, out the door price. As I mentioned, you can start to learn about it through a google search. The spreadsheet at carbuyingtips.com is absolutely terrific, too. Even though it's well known, most buyers still get trapped negotiating at the dealership, and that's always at the psychological and tactical advantage of the dealer.

True, if a buyer is not willing to travel beyond one or two nearby dealers, it's not likely that the potential savings will be as great. Speaking purely from my own level of tolerance, I was willing to drive five hours to save several hundred dollars. (about $500 less than what I would have received at a dealer two hours away)

Phoenix is not a small market but, true, that doesn't mean it's an easy one. Some would be willing to drive to LA, and some not. I'm in Florida which is considered an expenisve, tough market but, with patience, it's winnable, too.

Nobody is on this forum to compete with each other, or boast, only to help each other get a realistic sense of what is likely realistic, given the specifics of a car, and the current sales market, nationally and in various regional markets.

I've gotten fantastic help here from terrific folks and am happy to share it, too.
****
"Happycamry can talk all about his "fax attack" and other ideas about about getting great deals - and they may work in SoCal of someplace where dealers are around ever corner, but if there is little dealer choice (and they no it) ---SIC--- then they are not as inclined to feel the need for competing against each other. "

waltaz

Closed on a G today and am absolutely stoked!! I love the car (...though it's my wife's... ) and got the deal I wanted. Sure, some may say I left $100 on the table here or there, but all-in-all, I feel like I made out well.

Here are the details for your review (dealer was Pinnacle Infiniti in Scottsdale, AZ - e-mail me if you want the salesperson's name - he was great):
- 2008 G35 Journey in Platinum Graphite/Stone - $29,480 invoice (prior to 1/1 build, I think)
- CGO (cargon net) - $46 inv.
- P01 (Premium package) - $2,155 inv.
- SGD (splash guards) - $114 inv.
- Destination - $715
- Total invoice - $32,510

I offered $32,910 for this vehicle: $200 above invoice because I'm a great guy and feel that is fair, and another $200 for the $1,995 B.S. add-on package of "extras" to cover the cost of the tint (which I again feel is fair). I categorically refused to pay for the $297 Zaktek paint protection they put on every vehicle, and actually have "hard-coded" on the bill of sale. I made them white it out and zero it out.

They came back at $33,110, at which point I dropped a potential trade on them. I had left that unaddressed - they didn't ask me explicitly, and I didn't offer it up. The G was replacing my wife's '04 Honda Accord EX V-6, and I had been planning on selling it myself. But I figured I'd see what I could get, hoping for a net to me of $15,000 (trade value + $992 loan payoff + tax savings).

After some back and forth, with me telling them that I'd be on my way to the next two Infiniti dealers on my list if we couldn't strike a deal, I ended up back at the original $32,910 offer for the G, $13K for the trade, $900 towards my loan payoff and $1,105 in tax savings, for a net to me on the trade of $15,005. Which was exactly what I was looking for. My point being, if I sold it myself, I would have to get better than $15K for it to match that, not to mention the hassle factor of showing and selling a vehicle. I had done the comps and, at best, I was looking at $15.5K-ish as a final sale price. Also considering that Edmunds valued the trade at $13,466; KBB at $12,785 and Galves at $11,650. So I was thrilled to essentially get $14K for it..

I agreed at that point, waited for the vehicle, which had to be driven up from their sister store, Infiniti of Scottsdale (in south Scottsdale, on McDowell Rd.), checked it out, then waited for them to detail it, and off I went.

I can't tell you how helpful this forum has been during this whirlwind, two-week courtship of a new G35. It has enabled me to really hone in on what a good deal would look like. I know I could have held out for another $100 here or there, but not much more, if at all. I think it's on overall fair transaction, and a win-win. I know I am happy - I got everything out of this that I had hoped for. If it was also good for the dealer, then so be it. But I absolutely know that I got just about exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks again, everyone, particularly you, Dennis. I appreciate your patience and thoughtfulness.

Walt in AZ

happycamry

Cool Waltaz! Congrats. Now the real fun begins. . .

waltaz

Also, I forgot to add, I paid the Pinnacle Infiniti dealer doc fee of $395. I accepted it, and did not want to argue with them on that.

BTW, I passed on everything the Finance guy tried to sell me, just politely telling him "No," and he was very cool about it.

I can't believe they hard-code that $297 Zaktek charge onto the order. That's pretty agressive by them. I would expect to have them try and sell it to me, but including it as a matter-of-fact is a bit much.

But all in all, it was a relatively low-key and respectful process with Pinnacle.