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2013 and earlier-Acura MDX Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • stan100stan100 Member Posts: 1
    Purchasing 2010 MDX Tech in Chicago area. Anyone find an outstanding price at a local dealer that is really dealing?
    Thanks.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    Excellent job addu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its nice to see others do their due diligence and get a great/good deal. And no I didnot and do not now work in the auto industry.

    I sent emails to all of the Bay Area dealers and its nice to read that others are not standing for the sticker price and are doing so good.

    Since Serramonte was mentioned, I purchasd my RL at Concord Acura. My bride of 45 years and I wore them out saying "no, no, lower the price". And I will contact them first next time I purchase another Acura. (It should be easier the next time around, but not until I get over 100k on what I drive now.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad
  • cincimdxcincimdx Member Posts: 1
    edited May 2010
    we just purchased MDX Tech Crystal Black with Ebony interior last night. I played the price quote game with dealers around Cincinnati in Ohio/Kentucky area and finally had one of them responded with a quote close to the Invoice. Their original quote was 43,600 we finished the deal with $42,300 + Tax + dealer fees ($489).

    Dealer we purchased the vehichle : Courtesy Acura, Lexington , KY
    Acura Sales Director : Mike Edmondson

    Thanks every one who all posted here on their experience, it really helped us to do the negotiation.
  • koblixkoblix Member Posts: 8
    edited May 2010
    we didn't buy the warranty. In fact, I told the financial guy that if he bring up the warranty one more time, we will walk. He stopped!!!
  • gallarogallaro Member Posts: 3
    I found Muller and Pauly to be the most aggressive on price. I bought from Muller and was very satisfied with the process. They understood that I wanted to finalize every detail over the internet which made the whole process much easier.
  • kramericamankramericaman Member Posts: 1
    Was quoted in CA $705/mo (OTD including tax) on a 36 month lease with 12k miles for an MDX with tech and entertainment. ZERO Driveoff. From four different dealers in L.A. and Ventura county this seems to be a legitimate offer.

    Any experience on 2010 lease rates for the MDX?
  • sarahcmonkeysarahcmonkey Member Posts: 1
    congrats, jensad! do you mind if i ask how you did it and which dealership you purchased the vehicle?
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    Well Sarah, summarizing previous posts,
    1. I emailed all the dealers in the Bay Area Ca.re: what I wanted and the price.
    2. The "suggested price" was about 52000 for the 08 RLwith tech.
    3. I then went to Consumer Reports for the $ 20 car report and found that they dealer cost was about 41000.
    4. An old friend who was the manager at a BMW dealership told me that at their bmw dealership they work with about 15-22 % over cost.
    5. I got emails back and dealers were bidding about 43-45 K. I said no.
    6. About 3 days after emailing the dealers I received a phone call from my local dealer who asked if I purchased an RL yet? I said no, he gave me a price and I told him the price was too high. ( The key thing that helps here is that I informed him that I had offers down to 43K.)
    7. He said he would do 42500, and I said I would be down with my wife but my trade in would be according to blue book for my car.8. Long story short, they tried to low ball me on the trade in, my wife and got up and started to leave. they changed their tune and gave me what I wanted, i.e. $ 42500 plus tax.

    Before I went to the dealer I calculated the price using my old bmw friend, i.e. at 18 % off sticker. I DIDNOt try to gauge them, as I know they have a hold back of about 2k. (Not sure but I think it was close) and they made a small profit and we made an excellent savings.

    My bmw friend told me that the service stuff makes the$$ to break even and the sales makes the extra profit.

    The dealer was Concord Acura. I have taken my rl to them for the services and I have developed an honest friendships with the managers/staff because if my bride of 45years wants to buy a mdx next year I will first go to Concord Acura, and if I have to, I will play the game again.

    Biggie,: they will always try to wear you down. Psychologically, you will maybe angry, anxious ect..and they expect you to give in. DON'T. Just play the game and someone will give you the price you expect.

    Sorry if I rambled and I did not offend anyone.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.
  • hakjoonhakjoon Member Posts: 11
    have you bought one yet?
    I am looking to buy MDX in Seattle area.
    Are you interested in buying it with me together, so that we can get a better deal?
    Please send me email at hakjoon@hotmail.com
    Thanks.

    Justin
  • adduaddu Member Posts: 16
    Mummum,

    No dealer will offer you this price. The quote I was offered was 44.4K but I got it the price down 41.9K

    You will have to shop around and go beyond your county as well to get the price you are looking for. I did exactly that. Also, I negotiated over email until the price was what I wanted. I did not reveal wether I will finance, lease or buy on cash, neither did I tell them exactly what color I need until the deal was final

    Be patient there are a lot of cars out there but they will try to have you make a rush decision. The first dealer I talked to did not even quote me his exact price and said that my price is ridiculously low and that I was not serious in buying, but then called me twice later

    Good Luck !
  • coffeerequiredcoffeerequired Member Posts: 8
    truecar is now reporting a hidden $1300-$1600 dealer holdback
  • adrian007adrian007 Member Posts: 1
    I am in the market to buy 2010 MDX Tech. I got a quote for $43000 (price does not include tax, registration, title fee). Is it a good deal? I got the quote from a dealer in St Louis, MO and I live in Memphis, TN. The dealer is asking for a credit card deposit (as the vehicle is not in the lot yet and will arrive in a week). Is it normal for the dealers to ask for a deposit from out of city customers. Let me know. Thank You.
  • JinCJinC Member Posts: 2
    Just thought I'd share my experience. Just purchased 2010 MDX tech for $42,679. By the time you add taxes, etc, it was in $47K range. This is in Sunnyvale, CA. Dealer initially quoted me $44,000, but once I showed him an email with lower quote from another dealer, he matched the price.

    I've seen others buy at lower price, but I think the price I paid is not too bad.

    Good luck
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    I think you got a good deal. I always try to balance with the "negociations", my stress/anxiety level vs. the price they are trying to get me to pay,m vs the price I want to pay. I try to get a car at a discount of 18%. At least the last two vehicles I purchased the net w/o tax ect. was 18 % off their sticker price.

    Good luck to all and safe Memorial Day week end.

    jensad
  • thepostmanthepostman Member Posts: 49
    Where do you see this?

    I have looked everywhere on TrueCar and can't find it.
  • mummummummum Member Posts: 2
    JinC
    Did you get 42769 or 42679?
  • mdx_rulesmdx_rules Member Posts: 3
    Is my research correct? Looking for a 2007 used Sport with Entertainment with under 40k miles. Having searched nationwide for a few weeks, most of these are certified at dealers, and are consistently $37,000 to $35,000. Have not yet started to negotiate hard, but dealers seem unwilling to move too far off of $35,000. From a depreciation standpoint, this value seems high, as it is roughly 75% of MSRP for a 3 year old car. Leases entered into in 2007 have a residual buyout of about $28,000. Is $35,000 the going price, or should I expect to get one in the low $30's? Thanks.
  • aka57aka57 Member Posts: 10
    Brought home a 2010 MDX Base yesterday.
    $40,100 +TTL.
    Plus took advantage of 3 year 0.9% finance.
    Included wheel locks for that price.
    Had competing prices from two other SoCal dealers - but this guy was closer, had color choices I wanted and has a good reputation for honesty (Valencia Acura).
    Very pleasant buying experience.
  • firstmdxfirstmdx Member Posts: 8
    Purchased a 2010 Base MDX on 5/26 in N. Va. Price paid was $39000 plus processing plus TTL. OTD price was $40713 with Va. tax and reg. I don't know if this weekend brought any additional incentives or discounts.
  • mdxlover2mdxlover2 Member Posts: 5
    Purchased a 2010 MDX base today in Northern NJ for 39750. Does not include any of the standard fees or taxes. Did not really negotiate much, thought I was getting a decent deal. Any thoughts?
  • mdx2010temdx2010te Member Posts: 7
    Purchased 2010 Tech/ent 46000 OTD (Black/Black) which includes Advance running boards/roof rails, wheel locks, traded in 2006 TL for 17K which had 42K miles.. is this a good deal? what do you guys think?
  • svofan2svofan2 Member Posts: 442
    ..congrats good deal...mind sharing where?...I am interested also
  • saaber1saaber1 Member Posts: 31
    i am in northern NJ as well and that's a good price i believe. could you detail what your standard fees were and which dealer you worked with? thanks in advance.
  • hakjoonhakjoon Member Posts: 11
    Just purchased Certified 2008 Used MDX Tech/Ent for $37K + TTL. 24K miles on it. Traded-in 99 Corolla with 118K miles. The dealer asked for $39K without trade-in. It came out to be $40,400 OTD.
  • sjsmdxsjsmdx Member Posts: 1
    I paid $48,250 + TTL. Based on truecar dot com, this is more than $400 under invoice plus comes with free tint and wheel lock. This was two weeks ago. It seems to me pricing has been coming down since Dec'09 and still continues. I've seen people do much better on this forum but this is what I did:
    1. submit online inquery to dealerships that you can drive to within half a day.
    2. follow-up with the sales person who contacted you that you want their best internet quote
    3. pick the best quote and ask everyone else to beat it (not simply match it).
    4. pick the best quote from step 3 and ask one or two dealers you really want to purchase from to beat it with their best effort
    5. do purchase it from the winning dealer you chose in step 4
    * do NOT repeat step 3 as it would not be fair to the dealers and a smart sales will know you are just playing games.
    * do NOT repeat step 4 to the same dealer as it would make the dealer really really mad and you will lose your credit and his/her business. If you decide to make an offer, do not change it afterwards. Or, simply ask the dealer to make you a final offer and don't try to change it either. Think of it as a bidding process, not playing games.
    * do NOT take step 4 if you are not going to take step 5. Dealers have to make a living just like you do.
    * whatever the price you have in mind or offer to the dealers does not really matter to the dealers at all. What truly matters are the price offers you have gotten from the other dealers and that you are going to make a purchase within a week or two.
    * stay flexible on accessories and colors. The best deal comes from what the dealers have in stock at the time. You will pay more if they need to order one for you. Most dealers who I talked to have already installed tint and wheel locks that you don't really need to pay for.
    * if you want additional accessories, such as running board or roof rack, they will not install it before you have bought it (so you will have to make another trip to the dealer). It's very difficult to negotiate prices on accessories and they are very expensive.
    * the same dealer does not give the same quote to everyone. So, it's not important where people got their best deals from (so don't ask me this question). Again, refer to my point mentioned above about what truly matters.
    * I highly recommend Jeremy at Champion Acura for a fair, responsive and pleasant experience.

    Remember, if you want the dealer to treat you fairly then you have to do the same. There is really not much negotiation at all but to follow a process.
  • 99sub99sub Member Posts: 11
    Will definitely look into that dealership when I am ready to pull the trigger. I live in the Houston area. I did talk to them back in Feb. with an offer of $48,800 and they weren't ready to let their "only" Advance go at that price. Guess I need to wait until they have more on the lot. Congrats on your new ride.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    I bought a RL with tech pkg. in late Feb 08. I bartered with the dealer sticker for my RL as the sticker was around $ 52000 and we settled for a final price of $ 42500. The difference was about 18 %

    I got in the mail yesterday, a flier from our local dealer, that was offering an MDX base for about $ 43000 plue tx, ect. The flier was a form type sent probably to all of the present and maybe previous owners of Acuras. They had all of them listed and the MDX base was about $ 43000. Add on tech and it probably came to (guess) $ 45500.

    I am going to purchase an MDX for my wife next year, I will wait for the spring, or maybe Feb - May. JMO.

    It sounds like many posters here are getting excellent deals and I wish all of you good driving, and for buyers, good luck finding a good deal.

    No, I dont work or am associated with any Acura or other car dealers. Just learned along time ago not to let the dealer dictate the final price.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad
  • firstmdxfirstmdx Member Posts: 8
    edited June 2010
    Purchased at Pohanka Acura in Chantilly, Va. Negotiation started at invoice plus $750 (their first offer). I told them we needed to be dealing at less than invoice, not more and I was ready to purchase that day. I was also considering a Lexus RX 350 and the deal was going to be the determining factor. I was purchasing from their inventory so they had more incentive. After a couple of iterations (the typical visits to the sales manager by the salesman) we settled on $39000 ($936 under invoice according to Overstock.com). I chose not to finance with the deal offered at 0.9% for 3years or 1.9% for 5 years. This may or may not have been a factor in the final price. The salesman indicated it had no impact, but I don't really know. They have a $399 doc. fee and normal TTL for Va. of ($1314). Out the door was $40713.

    Hope this helps
  • briz2briz2 Member Posts: 42
    Very nice deal firstmdx.

    I'm going to cast a net this weekend on the mdx tech/ent and see what I get close to or under invoice.

    Did you trade anything?
  • firstmdxfirstmdx Member Posts: 8
    briz2...

    No trade involved, cash deal. Also, this was my second trip to this dealer, although I did not even go into the dealership during the first visit. Only browsed the lot and spoke with a sales rep. in the lot. On the second visit I hooked back up with the same rep. and test drove both the RDX and MDX (no comparison in my opinion). I actually drove the unit I eventually purchased. Color was Bali Blue/Taupe. They had about 6-8 units on the lot (various trim levels) with additional inventory being unloaded the next day when I pick up the MDX.

    Good luck and be tough with your negotiations.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter wants to talk with recent buyers of a 6+ seat vehicle in the Detroit area. Please respond to pr@edmunds.com by Friday, June 4, 2010 and be sure to include your phone number and the vehicle model you own.
  • carsguy78carsguy78 Member Posts: 1
    For those looking for an MDX in the Kansas City area, I wanted to let you know of a bad experience I just had with Jay Wolfe Acura. I negotiated a price with the dealership a few days ago that both sides were comfortable with. I had family coming to town for a couple days and couldn't get away to close the deal, and the dealer agreed that the negotiated price would be good for up to a week. So, when I called today to complete the purchase, I was told that the car market had suddenly changed and my new price would now be $2000 more (WTF). Supposedly the price of the new MDX went up by $1000 during that time and the price of my existing car went down by $1000. Talk about dishonesty. Anyway, I just wanted to let those of you in this area be informed if you work with this dealer! :mad:
  • svofan2svofan2 Member Posts: 442
    Very good deal...I am also undecided between the MDX and RX 350 like you were..I hope I find something similar in September (my current Sienna lease expires in Sept)...I have noticed that there seem to be better deals out of NJ specially in MD and VA...at least is my impression....but to be honest I am a bit nervous about buying out of state and I am also planning on a cash deal ) in my opinion sometimes it helps regardless of what some dealers will say)...good luck to you and enjoy the X in the best of health
  • briz2briz2 Member Posts: 42
    getting some quotes back -
    MDX + tech + ent
    msrp - $48,615
    invoice $44,642
    tmv - $46,123

    Offers
    1 - $45,500 plus tax, title fee
    2 - $46,615 plus registered state tax, tax, admin fee
    3 - $45,590.00 plus tax, title fee

    Talking to a few more dealers this weekend.
    Holding out for 44K.
  • jensadjensad Member Posts: 388
    I received this flier in the mail (in CA) which was sent to me because I own an 08 RL. They stated, 0 % interest ect...something like 1.9 % /60 mo. and here are I am assuming are some of their BASE prices before tx, lic. ect:

    MDX - $ 42230 ;
    RL - $46830.

    I hope these prices help you. But this was Bay Area Ca. and I hope you get the deal you want.

    Good luck to all and stay safe.

    jensad
  • firstmdxfirstmdx Member Posts: 8
    briz2...
    It's a good start. You may want to wait a bit to move closer to months end. Historically dealers are more eager near month end to make their sales plan. Also you might want to remind then that you are aware that the 2011 model of the MDX may be released soon. That's the rumor and it certainly will not hurt to suggest you have this information even if it's only a rumor. Look for all the leverage you can get in the negotiations. Remember the dealer will never make a deal he does not want to make. He does this everyday and knows what his bottom number is. That's his real edge in the process. You might also want to get some out of state quotes that could help your case. Also remember the internet quote is rarely close to the dealer's best number. It takes some effort but look at it as a challenge and you might enjoy the process a little.

    Again good luck and keep us updated on your progress.
  • briz2briz2 Member Posts: 42
    I visited the local dealer today and he offered 45K on the tech + ent
    $400 over invoice.

    I'm seriously considering unless the cinci/pittsburgh/charlotte/columbus quotes can beat it. They haven't yet.
  • adduaddu Member Posts: 16
    Briz2,

    If you can wait and send more queries for a quote and then sit on it for few days/ week, chances are you will hit one or two dealers who are desperate to sell and will give you a good deal. But you need to have a target in mind based of what people are reporting ( I think i saw 44K for tech + ent) for reference

    When I started the process for 2010 MDX tec, I was also getting quotes for invoice + $ 400, however, I purchased for $1000 below invoice

    Remember the dealer will try to create a rush scenario by saying these cars are hard to come by etc, if you are patient, they will give in to lower their profit, which was my goal

    Good Luck
  • jackc2jackc2 Member Posts: 2
    edited June 2010
    I have lurked for a very long time, and finally decided to join. Why did everyone pay so much? Some even paid over invoice. I bought a new MDX/tech 2 month ago for over 5K below invoice, + tax etc. Auto sales people are more actor than actors. Whatever price you offer (very high or extremely low), they will always look at you like a shame hoping to take advantage of you. 99% of shoppers will feel embarrassed and raise your offer. But once you do so, they view you as a psychologically weak person and you will finally end up paying what you are not supposed to pay. If you do have to raise, do so in a small increment and get up and get ready to leave. This way, they will show you a price very similar to their bottom line (though sometimes they will do this only 1 day after you leave by calling you).
  • svofan2svofan2 Member Posts: 442
    ..you meant 5K below msrp..right?...
  • jackc2jackc2 Member Posts: 2
    edited June 2010
    Oh, typo. 5-6K below msrp. If you have to factor in these destination charge etc, it is then more like 6.5-7K below msrp. I offer them OTD. Everyone should do so too, instead of base price. When you offer OTD, you give them a green light to skip a big part on sales tax. Not quite an ethical play. But if you care about ethics, skip all my posts. Let's show an example.
    Assume their true invoice is $10K, state tax 5%, $200 tag, $300 destination. Then their true cost is $11K.
    You offer either
    (1) $11K base price + tax tag dest, assuming they omit processing fee and you negotiate down to $300 destination from their saying of $800. This way, you pay $12K OTD and their profit is $1K. Assuming corporate tax is 35%, then $350 will go to IRS and state (referring to company tax as opposed to sales tax which cannot hide). $550 sales tax here.
    (2) you offer them $12K OTD. You pay the same as above. No difference to you, but a big one to the dealer. You are telling them you don't care about govt tax. Then on the accounting form, an aggressive dealer would have the following: $800 destination + $100 processing + $200 tag + charges they make up of (e.x. credit check fee, etc etc). Say these amount to $1.5K. On the paper, they sold you this car for $9.9K + $500 tax. Then they ACTUALLY LOST MONEY ON THIS TRANSACTION. Not only won't they pay corporate tax (refund instead) but also saved $50ish on sales tax.
    Math might be complicated, but the concept is straight forward. Everyone should offer OTD. If they pass on saving of $250, then they will accept your OTD offer of $11750
  • cbr1000rrcbr1000rr Member Posts: 12
    Purchased the above vehicle last night from Radley Acura, Fall Church VA for $50,197. That price includes the infamous VA $395 document preparation fee plus TTL.
  • jimbob1jimbob1 Member Posts: 70
    Assume their true invoice is $10K, state tax 5%, $200 tag, $300 destination. Then their true cost is $11K.
    You offer either
    (1) $11K base price + tax tag dest, assuming they omit processing fee and you negotiate down to $300 destination from their saying of $800. This way, you pay $12K OTD and their profit is $1K. Assuming corporate tax is 35%, then $350 will go to IRS and state (referring to company tax as opposed to sales tax which cannot hide). $550 sales tax here.


    Why would tax and tag be a dealer cost? Those are purely consumer fees.
  • svofan2svofan2 Member Posts: 442
    Your OTD price theory is partialy correct since what really counts is the total money disbursed by the buyer but you are incorrect in assuming that the dealer is "shaving" monies off of the sales tax..business only collect taxes if you don't pay it they will and I doubt the dealer will pay additional tax. IF you selling price is lets say 10k and the sales tax is 7% (like in NJ) there will be a $700 tax liability, no two ways about it, now the "doc fee" yes that could be reduced or eliminated altogether as it is a dealer charge...
    The OTD price do allow them to play with the figures as you indicated but the tax number will depend on the vehicle price.
    About your breakdown.....if the selling price is $10k sales tax @5% is $10.5k period end of subject, now if the selling price is less than $10k so will be the sales tax..".no green light" at ALL!!!!
    Negotiations are strictly concerning selling price of the vehicle (which should include destination charges),doc fees and if any, accessories. The DMV and the taxes are "sacred"..DMV is fixed and the taxes depend on selling price.

    And about their "corporate taxes", sorry but I do not believe that is any of our business as buyers and between you and me i doubt that they will a take a risk for one or many hundreds of sales the URS will put them out of business quicker that you can say MDX..

    If you think you got a good price that is all it counts no matter what others think or how try to rationalize you deal..enjoy the suv in the best of health..
  • cmconnorcmconnor Member Posts: 2
    Peabody Acura: Tech only: $43,789. Tech w/ Entertainment: $45912
    Boston Acura: Tech only $44,168
    Prime Acura North: Tech only: $43,573 and the Tech w/ entertainment: $45,396
    Herb Connolly Acura: Tech: $44,700 and Tech w/ entertainment: 46,604
    Prime Acura Walpole: Tech w/ entertainment $44,989

    Now, here is my question: Does the dealer determine invoice? That is just a fuzzy math to me. Where do I start in my negations? All the quotes above came from my email frenzy earlier this week. Some claimed to make it a 24 hour deal only (Walpole). Can someone PLEASE tell me what my next move should be? Thanks.
  • islandtractorislandtractor Member Posts: 14
    edited June 2010
    I suggest you start by determining the invoice price for the various vehicles then calculate how much over invoice these different dealer offers are. Use the Edmunds new car pricing app to show you actual dealer invoice plus destination. Current invoice for MDX Tech with destination is $42919 per Edwards. I had no trouble getting $500 over invoice plus destination on a Tech ($43400 or so) from Boston Acura two months ago (did not take it). I'd imagine that they are now willing to sell even closer to actual invoice as we are into the summer season.
  • vsk1vsk1 Member Posts: 5
    Two weeks ago I brought MDX Tech from Prime Acura for $42,750(Including Dest) + Doc Charges+TTL

    Actually they are willing to go for little more low, but they dint had the color that I want in the inventory. They got my car from other dealer.

    All the best for your purchase.
  • jg100jg100 Member Posts: 6
    I checked some information here, some are talking about invoice/base price + TTL. I am wondering if that includes destination fee, which is $810. It is a big number.

    For a Base Model 2010 MDX:
    invoice ($38,776)+ destination fee ($810) = $39,586

    So, is $39,999.(including destination fee) + TTL a good deal or not ? That is the lowest price I can get from dealer now. Can we get a lower one? thanks.
  • flix1flix1 Member Posts: 1
    edited June 2010
    I'm looking for a 2010 MDX base and have been shopping at the San Diego dealers. So far, best offer I'm getting is invoice + $1000. Dealers are claiming they don't do holdback and therefore can't make any profit selling at invoice. I don't really believe them but that's the story I'm getting.

    Based on what I'm reading in this forum and seeing on truecar.com, seems like I should be able to get it at invoice or maybe even better.

    I guess my next step is check the Orange County dealers. Sounds like Mission Viejo Acura has given good prices in the past. Before doing that I wanted to get some advice.

    1. If I email a bunch of Orange County dealers, should I make an offer of invoice or just ask them to send me their best offer?

    2. Do you think it's better to call than to email? I wonder how much they are willing to deal via email or phone.

    3. I'm looking at trading in. Do I even mention that or does it hurt my negotiating power?

    4. Seems like even if I negotiate a good price on the new vehicle, they can just low ball my trade in to make up the difference. Any advice on how to protect myself from that? I know it's better to sell the vehicle myself but I have a short time frame and might not be able to sell it in time.

    thanks for any suggestions.
  • briz2briz2 Member Posts: 42
    I didn't mention trade until I had a price negotiated (45k + t(5%)tl + $125 doc on the tech/ent).

    The dealer then offered the kbb excellent trade in value - printed it and brought it to me - quickly. Which kind of freaked me out. I left without doing the deal because I felt like it was a setup.

    I had my neighbor, who sales cars, look up my car on the auction sites and it seemed like the kbb excellent value was the documented avg auction values on the condition.

    I'm still waffling - I'm Farve-ian in my decision making.
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