Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

ateixeira

First year VDCs did not have an "off" switch, so it must be able to handle it for at least short distances. Otherwise they should not have come with spares at all!

-juice

fibber2

Thanks for the responses.

Steve

fibber2

Nobody answered this one, so I will give it another shot. Anybody use a floor jack to lift the rear? Does it go on the diff housing itself, or on the cross brace that attaches near the input driveshaft?

Steve

ateixeira

Sorry, must have overlooked that question.

I have, yes, and used the rear diffy protector on my Forester. I used a piece of treated wood in between to prevent any damage.

I've also jacked up my Miata on the differential housing, no problem.

Use jack stands for both.

-juice

kens

Was the "VDC off" button added for towing/spare reasons? I thought it was more in reaction to car reviews complaining that VDC hurt their lap times (seriously).

Ken

ateixeira

I think the VDC off was added due to customer demand for one, possibly fueled by those reviews, sure. I doubt it had anything to do with the donut spare.

-juice

locke2c

I also jacked up my subaru on the rear differential--no skidplate--with no problems.

-Colin

hondafriek

Is what I use to jack as well, I make sure to always use jackstands.

  Cheers Pat.

stevek

I am still waiting for my refund for the wires that kept sliding off the plugs on my Forester, it has been 2 weeks. Last night my '01 Legacy starting running bad, it was diagnosted as a bad/arching wire, I purchused them 6 months ago from Magnacore. At this point I consider their product junk and they do not stand behind their products. Buyer beware.

paisan

Neither of my 2 cars have wires on them

-mike

glen22

Took subie to local Subaru for starting problems but now car is stalling. Starting problems were fixed by replacing coolant temperture sensor & cam sensor. Purge sensor was also changed at this time since a code for that was indicated. When I got car back it started fine but after 1 day it started to stall which it had never done previously. Car has been back now an additional 3 times to Subaru but is still stalling. An idle air valve was installed the throttle body cleaned, some wiring reinsulated, but car still stalls sometimes at 40 mph , most times however at a stop light. Sometimes car will run for 3-4 days with no problems other days it stalls several times. A few of these times a check engine light was displayed & the code23 was
displayed which is for the mass air flow sensor. Has anyone had a similiar problem? Help-- Worn out.??? Why would car start stalling after starting problem was fixed? Just coincidence??

fibber2

Thanks, gentlemen....

Steve

ateixeira

Could the MAF be bad, or maybe dirty air is getting through and making it throw the codes?

At this point, I think it's gonna be up to a shop to troubleshoot, honestly.

-juice

locke2c

I would look for a vacuum leak, especially one behind the MAF sensor. Check all your intake plumbing for something connected improperly, a hole, a tube disconnected. Anything like that.

If you don't find anything, spend $3-5 at an autoparts store and get a can of starting fluid-- I think Prestone should be carried by most stores. With the engine idling, open the hood and spray the starting fluid on the intake plumbing and then steadily work around to all vacuum hoses (small bits of rubber tubing) if necessary. If hit a vacuum leak with the starting fluid directly the engine will race/rev up a bit. Secure or replace any leaks you find.

If you do this and don't find anything, then I'd think about taking it to another servicer and I wouldn't recommend just buying a new MAF sensor to see if that works... they're kinda pricey. If you know of anyone with the same year of car (or close) and same engine, perhaps you could borrow their MAF sensor for a quick test.

Good luck!
-Colin
pro IT guy, amateur mechanic

ateixeira

Yeah, like $400 or so IIRC. Or you could get a used one here:

http://www.fsautoparts.com/

-juice

glen22

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions. I'll be trying them & report back with the results.

kens

I had the same bad start up problem happen again this morning. This time, I was able to see more of what was going on.

- Normal procedure: E-brake up, in neutral, clutch in, turn key, wait for pump to prime, start engine, clutch out
- Revs rise to 1500RPM
- Seconds later, revs begin to drop to around 1000RPM, engine labors as if clutch is engaging (I'm in neutral!)
- Car jerks forward and stalls, thanks to the e-brake!

This second time, I pushed the clutch in right when I saw the engine begin to labor and the revs came back up and seemed to prevent the stall.

Is there any way the clutch can engage itself even if I'm in neutral? It's kind of bizzare and disturbing too.

Now that I think of it, there was one instance a while ago where something similar happened. I also found that pushing in the clutch allowed the revs to come back up (again, I'm neutral the whole time).

Ken

ateixeira

Whoa, that sounds serious. Tranny, probably.

There's a TSB for the '98s popping out of first gear, a bad 1->2 synchro. Not sure if that would affect a car in neutral, though. Bizarre.

-juice

kens

I had the popping out of gear (what did I not have happen on Raven? :-) ) and that was addressed under warranty a while ago.

The tech told me that it was more a shifter fork tolerance issue rather than the synchros.

Anyway, this recent thing is weird. Oy!

Ken

ateixeira

OK, so at least they have worked on the tranny. Just trying to establish a baseline.

You got an early production '98, version 1.0! :-)

-juice

kens

Sheesh. Tell me about it. Where do I get my beta tester credit? :-)

Ken

ateixeira

Mine was about a v1.6. It was made in the latter half of the first year's production run.

Neways, it's time to get v1.0 turbo!

-juice

locke2c

if you're jerking forward, the only way that can happen is if the transmission isn't completely in neutral.

it's not the clutch... think about that, if you're in neutral it doesn't matter if the clutch is engaged or not, vehicle does not move nor does the engine labor much spinning the input shaft or only the flywheel.

something ain't right in that tranny case...

-Colin

kens

Colin,

You're right -- it couldn't be the clutch since pushing it in relieves the problem. But the strange thing is that the vehicle doesn't jerk forward immediately. I start the engine and let off the clutch and a few seconds later the laboring begins.

Perhaps the tranny is just *slightly* in gear even when in neutral and the initial engine surge right after it turns over is enough to overcome the initial drag. Once the RPMs begin to settle, it bogs down and stalls. Is that plausible?

I'm driving down to Santa Cruz Subaru next Monday -- they were the last ones to crack open my tranny.

Ken

idahodoug

Pure speculation on my part, but could they have filled the tranny with oil that is WAAAY too thick, thus causing some things to spin through a "viscous coupling" type of effect?

I actually suspect your shifter fork and related parts that locate the gears are not adjusted correctly, but this would not explain the tendancy to start moving the car a couple seconds AFTER you let the clutch out in neutral. With a manual, it's either in gear or its not, and were it to engage a couple seconds later to start moving the car, you'd hear sounds that would curl your teeth. See above for theory...

Very strange indeed, and the only way this will be solved is to have the tranny cracked open. I definitely want to hear how this plays out.

IdahoDoug

swerskey

Hello all,
I've browsed this message board and it seems my problem is not a new one. I just replaced the driver's side rear wheel bearings for the second time in 14 months at $400-$460 each time.

My question is whether to think about selling it and trying something else. I bought it new, it's got about 68,000 miles on it, and will be paid off in 5 months. I was looking forward to not having a car payment for awhile, but wondering if it is cost-effective to keep it. My mechanic also mentioned that the struts may need to be replaced soon as well.

Also, what is my course of action with Subaru? It's not under warranty anymore, but this is obviously a common problem, so what do I do next?

Thanks, SW

axp696

This is a known problem, and in the past SoA has split the cost of repairs with some people. However, if you had it replaced once and it broken again, it probably means they didn't use the proper Legacy bearing, or they didn't pack it in grease and just put it in out of the box. These are two known problems that service departments mess up frequenty on this repair, I'd go tell them to do it right, or call SoA and have them sort the issue out.

locke2c

doug--

you are actually close, but a malfunctioning manual transmission could behave exactly as Ken is describing... I just didn't have time for a technical explanation a few hours ago at work.

the shifter forks pull or push dog teeth into engagement which determines which of the gears on the output shaft will be driven by the layshaft. what seems to be happening to poor ken is that the dogs in one of the forward gears-- yes, possibly 1st-- are not disengaging completely. he's therefore "sort of" in gear, but when not fully engaged the dogs shouldn't take much torque before slipping out.

ken, the next time this happened if you were to have open ground all around and you just gave it gas instead of clutch, I bet you'd crab forward just a bit and then hear a nice "bang" as it forcefully dropped into neutral. this is more likely to happen than the dogs fully engaging (and putting you completely in 1st gear) because the shift lever and forks aren't in the right place for that.

check out this animation:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission3.htm

-Colin

subearu

I bet that if he cyles maybe reverse or 3rd, something opposite of 1st, that he'll NOT get it to happen and it'll act just fine.

-Brian

fibber2

Isn't the dog teeth engagement preceeded by the synchro cone (like a miniature clutch)? I would have thought you would get a good 'grind' if these were only partially engaged.

Steve

mortpeaberry

does subaru produce a diesel in other markets (a turbo even?) I want to replace my vanagon motor someday and as bio-diesel is coming to our area [read veg.oil based - eco-poli prefered fuel of hippies everywhere + no bad fumes (only donut/fry cravings)] the GT would be cool with almost double milage, as well.
steve-v
Santa Cruz

locke2c

steve,

I doubt you'll ever see that happen. A diesel engine needs to be undersquare due to the way diesel combustion works. low rpm, needs a long stroke to make torque, large bores are useful at high rpm which diesels never reach.

whereas due to its horizontally opposed layout, the boxer engine has a very short stroke and uses significantly oversquare bores to get maximum useable displacement out of a given engine size.

look around at the bore & stroke specifications on some car sites (here on edmunds or perhaps try autos.msn.com) and see for yourself.

if there's ever a diesel powered Subaru, it probably won't be a horizontally opposed engine. as an oil company employee, I think it's best if I avoid going into a spiel about vegetable diesel. ;-) I bet you could double your mileage as it is if you replaced your 1900cc carbureted four with a 1.8L SOHC 16V EJ engine, say 1995 Impreza vintage, and used the right gear ratios.

-Colin

kens

Doug -- Interesting theory, but the dealer was the last to fill the tranny oil and I'm pretty sure it was what Subaru specifies.

Colin -- Thanks for the links. I am suspecting the same as well. When I had the first gear popping out problem, the dealer said it had to do with the fork being biased a certain way. Perhaps they over corrected and now it tries to stay in first.

So, when I bring my vehicle in I probably should indicate the details of how I pull into my garage. It sounds like if one shifted to a different gear before starting, one may not be able to replicate the problem.

Ken

lilbluewgn02

Susan's Legacy makes a thumping noise from the front driver's side tire. I took a look at the tire itself and didn't see any wear strips, bubbles etc...the car has approx 15,000 miles. Any ideas?
Serge

hypov

Serge-
There may be a nail/screw or its like embedded between the threads in the sip (sp).
I had a tire doing the thumps but could not find anything at first. Removed the tire and went through it thread block by thread block until I found a screw embedded and hidden as described.

-Dave

idahodoug

Colin,

I am with you on your theory, but what bugs me is when Ken said:

"- Normal procedure: E-brake up, in neutral, clutch in, turn key, wait for pump to prime, start engine, clutch out
- Revs rise to 1500RPM
- Seconds later, revs begin to drop to around 1000RPM, engine labors as if clutch is engaging (I'm in neutral!)
- Car jerks forward and stalls, thanks to the e-brake!"

From this, I gather that he lets the clutch fully out and nothing happens as would be normal since he's in neutral. THEN, the engine begins to labor and it feels like the clutch is beginning to engage, the car lurches and the stall happens. To me, if there's a forward gear engaged (even if it's the dog gear only) the engine would immediately labor and stall before the clutch is out because there's a direct connection on a manual - no tranny slippage like an auto torque converter. And if it's partly engaged, you'd get instant grinding.

So, I cannot see how the clutch is let out uneventfully, and THEN a progressive amount of engine load is somehow transmitted here.

So, I'll kinda disagree that your scenario could be possible, but frankly I have no plausible theory myself as to how this can happen on a manual. Very strange.

IdahoDoug

locke2c

clutch out, he's spinning the layshaft at full engine speed. the only possible way to lurch forward is for a gear to slide into engagement.

regarding the earlier comment about synchros... yes that's how they work. I might suspect the synchros are blown on whatever gear is responsible, the first gear synchro sucked previous to 1999 anyway.

ken if you want to avoid this behavior before you get back into the shop, I would suggest engaging 2nd gear then neutral. I bet you pull into your garage or parking stall in 1st gear, nearly everyone does.

-Colin

kens

Yes, I do crawl into my garage in 1st and then flick it into neutral before I pull the ebrake and shut off the engine. I see from the link Colin posted that by going to 2nd, that would bias the fork the other way and possibly prevent the problem.

In either way, I'll let you know what the dealer finds.

Colin -- what changes were there to the 1st gear synchro in '99?

Ken

locke2c

'99 up is definitely double synchro but I'm not sure if '98 had only one or just had a problem.

I am sure that it was far harder for '98 2.5RS and Foresters could not get back down into first gear while moving, whereas the 1999 models could do so easily. they also altered the linkage at the same time, less rubbery and shorter travel.

-Colin

mortpeaberry

thanks for info - steve-v

ateixeira

The '98 had the problem that I alluded to above. Check out NHTSA, I found complaints about the 2.5 RS tranny, and it was the 1-2 synchro.

Here, I found two:

Make: SUBARU
Model: FORESTER
Year: 1998
Service Bulletin Number: 034899
Summary Description:
VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS MAY EXHIBIT FIRST GEAR POPPING OUT WHILE DRIVING. *TT

Make: SUBARU
Model: FORESTER
Year: 1998
Service Bulletin Number: 17
Summary Description:
SUBJECT REGARDING SHIFTER RATTLE. *JG

-juice

ateixeira

I would ask for them to use the parts from the Legacy. That's supposed to solve the problem permanently.

If you do a search on NASIOC.com, you might even find part numbers. I saw them once. Tell your dealer to use these. Call 800-SUBARU3 and point out that they didn't, ask for reimbursement or a free 3rd repair, using those parts.

As for the struts, those are a normal wear and tear item. Yesterday I saw a BMW 318i bouncing up and down repeatedly when hitting dips in the road. His shocks were toast. 68k miles sounds about right, actually. Some people ride on them longer but by then they're not performing like new.

-juice

kens

Yes, getting into 1st can be tough at times even at a full stop. I've just got into the habit of applying light pressure on the shift lever just before I come to a complete stop so that it slides into 1st.

The shifter rattle (no surprise, I had that too) was caused by a bolt that was too long, IIRC.

I noticed that while the engine is warming up, I can get the rpms to change very slightly as I press on the clutch. When I clutch in, the rpms go up by a 100, when I clutch out, it drops the same amount. It goes away once the engine is warmed up.

Are the hydraulics for the clutch powered by the engine in anyway? I'm just looking for other clues to help the dealer today.

Ken

lfdal

I see that the transmission filter on my 03 Forester is an external spin-on. Not that I'm thinking about changing it anytime soon, but is anyone aware of a special procedure for doing it?
Also, I just rotated my tires @ 7500 miles and checked the front & rear pad & disc wear (I noticed I need a little brake fluid). The pads seem a little thinner than I'd like them to be on the front for the mileage I have. They look fine on the rear. Anyone care to chime in on typical wear for those? I know everyone's different but I'm used to going about 30,000 miles before I change the pads and I don't think these are going to make it that far.
Thanks
Larry

ateixeira

I have my original pads at 51k miles, and they still have pretty good thickness. I guess I'm not hard on the brakes, but I do carry heavy loads, I tow, and I've been off road. Go figure.

Any how, quick wear is better than squeeky brakes, so be careful what you wish for. I'm lucky that mine are also quiet. Pads are cheap, I'd just change 'em.

Maybe it's the Hill Holder on yours?

-juice

fibber2

The hydraulic clutch actuator is just a fluid replacement for a cable or lever type mechanical link. It is not boosted in any way.

I always thought that an adjustable vacuum booster such as found on the brake system would be great for the heavy cluch of my old truck, but I do not think such a thing exists.

Steve

jpod2

A problem just happened on my 01 Forester (40 K) that hasn't been posted before. After a left turn, the turn signal went off and the parking lights came on with the switch in the off position. Now the switch has no effect. Disconnecting the battery was only way to stop the flashers. Is there something I can check?

toboggan

To get first gear engaged without a problem move the shift lever straight over to the right as if you are selecting reverse (but not bringing the lever down into reverse - through the "gate"). Then bring it back to the left and select first. I have used this technique on my previous car ('91 Mazda 626 5-door) and the current '98 OBW. It works 99.999% of the time. Of course, you do this with the clutch pedal depressed. This maneuver has worked with or without the brake pedal depressed. While moving at really slow speeds I'll just double clutch into first.

Hope this makes sense.

MNSteve

toboggan

Should have added that the shift lever isn't moved through the gate, but when the resistance of the gate is felt then move the lever back and into first.

Make sense?

MNSteve

ateixeira

If they are on solid, but dim, it's probably the switch at the top of the steering column, right near the steering wheel. It's a parking light used in Europe, not so much in the US.

See if that's it.

-juice