Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

fibber2

Good to hear that the A/C ordeal is coming to a close.

Steve

fibber2

Some time ago we were on a discussion about parking brake designs, and I overstated the case for the popularity of the mini-drum-in-disk design. Sorry... I have since been 'educated' that there is no clear winner, and that both the mini-drum and caliper actuator do co-exist. Interesting that 'autodome' is very divided about which is better. Acura (Honda) recently announced that they were switching back to a mini-drum on higher end models, as the extra caliper hardware interfered with both brake feel and responsiveness. But some are looking at going to caliper hardware as it is cheaper than a full redundent drum system. I also found reference to another design - a mini secondary caliper attached to the primary caliper with it's own cable operated piston and mini pads.

So yes, the beer is on me.

Steve

fibber2

Brake squeak is basically a vibration when the pads clamp against the rotor. Sometimes a soft interface between the back of the pads and the capiper (that squeezes them against the rotor) will dampen the vibration and eliminate the noise. There are coated shim pads available, as well as spray on coatings. Talk to your shop about options, or try your Subi dealer.

Steve

bluesubie

Keep us posted on the Mobil1 gear oil. Quite a few people on nasioc have reported grinding with it.

-Dennis

c_hunter

Can you elaborate about the grinding?

Don't notice anything different in the transmission so far -- doesn't seem any better or worse than before. Still stubborn to go into 1st on ocassion, and I still get some backlash/gear noise when decellerating in 2nd gear. But the transmission seems fine otherwise.

Craig

fibber2

One of the guys in my office owns an '02 WRX with about 30k on the clock. He was reporting more and more grinding / reluctance to go into 1st. I suggested he use 2nd for pre-alignment, prior to going into 1st (which worked), as well as to take it in and get it looked at. Dealer replaced 1st gear synchro, and it now shifts smoothly.

Steve

bluesubie

Some people have said that M1 is too slick for our synchros (the synchros need a little friction for the best shifting). Try a search at nasioc in the Transmission Forum.

It's probably more of an issue if you're into quick shifting.

-Dennis

bluesubie

More info here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=165380&am- p;am- p;referrerid=767
Keep in mind that the original poster is from Finland and gets different M1 than us.

Info here:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=255197&am- p;am- p;referrerid=767

Everyone doesn't have problems though.

-Dennis

c_hunter

Ah, wonderful, something new to worry about! Here I was thinking I did a good thing! I guess we'll have to see how it goes. If I notice any problems, I can always change back. My WRX has always been reluctant to go into 1st gear at less than 5-10mph, and occasionally I have trouble getting into 1st or reverse (more commonly reverse). So, it wasn't exactly perfect with dino to begin with. I'll live with M1 for a week and report back on the experience!

At least I have not experienced grinding before or after the M1. That would really bug me....

Craig

dcm61

No apology necessary. I definitely learned from the discussion. I always thought the drum in disk setup was a Subie exclusive. As the saying goes, you learn something new everyday. Thanks for the update regarding the differing directions automakers are taking on the subject.

So, walk on over to the fridge and have a beer on me.

DaveM

nygreg

Stop playing Thunder Road.

Greg

lucien2

especially 1st.... hmmm....

mytown2222

I have a 2003 Outback Wagon with the 4 cyl engine.

I am experiencing a looseness somewhere in the drive train very similar to what you might feel with a 65 chevy that has a bad universal joint (only less so, and I do not hear or feel any banging).

The problem is subtle, but I do feel it. I have over 30 years driving experience and I have a good feeling for what is going on with a car, but I have never driver an AWD before nor a Subaru.

When I let off the gas it feels a bit funny (sorry I can't be more specific) and when I give it gas, I feel a slight (like a u joint problem) hesitation (not an engine hesitation). Someone on this pool in a prior post mentioned that a Torque converter clutch (read post #1464 by mainsail2).

Hopefully this is just the way the subaru awd is.

Btw, just a thought on thinking transmissions. They stink. Why on earth do I need a thinking transmission? Boycott thinking transmissions! (I had a VW that decided (thought) to stop shifting one day - I had to pull over on one of the busiest highways in the country. Once I turned the car off and restarted it, it was fine. Later I learned that the VW transmission was "adaptive". What a joke. I could see if these cars were getting 50+mpg, but the Subaru has a very sluggish 4cyl! and only gets 17mpg!

nygreg

You probably are feeling the AWD shifting power between the front and rear wheels. When you accelerate, the power will be transfered to the rear wheels and to the front when braking. If it is what I am thinking, I feel the same thing. Subaru tranny's are pretty robust.

BTW, my 01 OB H4 4EAT gets about 22 mpg in mixed driving. 21.77 with today's fill up.

Greg

jlemole

Ditto what Greg says; or just the normal "slushiness" of the auto tranny in these cars. Take a look here for diagnosis of tranny issues as well. Its at the end of the article:

http://www.endwrench.com/current/Current6/03/InsiderInfo.pdf

Jon

jlemole

It seems that there is no consensus on what works well and what doesn't in the way of synthetics, making the decision on what to use pretty maddening. I've decided to just stick with regular dino fluids changed at regular intervals to keep them fresh and clean.

Jon

jfl

It's actually an easier decision with an automatic tranny. Just use a GL-5 gear oil of the correct viscosity in both diffys.

The syncros in the manual tranny work better with a little bit of friction. Therefore, Redline recommends their gear oil without the slip-agents. In the Subie, the manual tranny shares this oil with the diffy.

I'm using synthetic in the gear boxes and dino in the engine.

Jim

paisan

GL5 is specified for both the tranny and front diffy on subies. This is unique in that most Manaul tranny vehicles require GL4 NOT GL5 in the tranny. Basically so long as you use gear oil v. Manual Tranny oil in your MT subie you are in good shape. On ATs you put GL5 in the Front and Rear and AT Fluid in the AT!

-mike

jlemole

I'm going to kick myself for asking this, but what brand synth gear oil are you using in your diffs, Jim?

Jon

daniell

You are experiencing the well documented transmission hesitation, present on all Subarus with automatic transmission. In my opinion, and I am not a car expert, this is caused by a software bug in the automatic Subaru ECUs (car's computer). Here is my reasoning: it's known that an ECU reset will temporarily alleviate the problem. After a while, the computer "re-learns" how to shift, and the problem is back.

Whatever happens is not normal in my oppinion. I have driven numerous automatic and manual cars, imports and domestic, Toyotas (including AWD), Hondas (including AWD), Nissans, GMs, Daymler-Chrysler etc., and none exhibited this problem.

bluesubie

I'm using Motul and I'm not as impressed with it as I was with the Amsoil in my OBS (could be the different shifter though. Less room for "lazy shifts" in the Rex).

Shifting is a little easier, but I still go into 3rd before hitting reverse. Amsoil pretty much elimated that in the OBS.
It's really roulette when it comes to synthetic gear oil. As long as the sub-freezing shifts are easier, I'll be happier that I was with stock oil. I'll probably switch back to Amsoil in the future though.

Here's a good thread on first gear grind:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=353774&am- p;am- p;am- p;referrerid=767

-Dennis

mytown2222

Good to hear that what I'm experience is normal even if it is due to a bug in the ECU.

FWIW, I absolutely would not have bought a Subaru if I had known it had a thinking transmission. That was why I got rid of my VW.

The next car purchase I make will be a car without such nonsense - I don't care if I have to buy a 350ci GM engine and throw a towel around it. I pay $30K for a brand new car and I have to put up with the feeling of a bad U-Joint 5,000 miles in because I have a transmission that thinks? Nonsense!

c_hunter

Well, I took the back way to work this morning to play with the transmission. Shifting seems the same to me now with M1 as it did before with the factory dino. The main thing I noticed is that the transmission did not need to warm up -- I got nice shifts right away. Previously, I would have to drive a mile or two with the dino (in mild-warm weather) before the transmission loosened up. So, I'd say that's a plus for the M1. I bet it will be much better in the winter.

Being a creature of habit, I noticed that the engine sounds different on startup with the M1 in there. Pretty interesting if it's real and not perceived. Of course, it could be due to the fact that I switched from 5W-30 to 10W-30, but that shouldn't make a whole lot of difference in summer weather.

Craig

daniell

I don't think it's normal, but at least it is a known issue with automatic Subarus.

Funny thing, my neighbor owns a 2002 1.8T Passat, auto, and he complained about exactly the same thing, without me mentioning that my Subaru has the same problem. Some manufacturers sacrifice driveability for lower emissions and better fuel economy.

oregonboy

and it's a 5-speed manual. "LONG LIVE STICK SHIFTS".

I'm ok, just a little to much caffeine this AM.

-james

nematode

No, the XT cannot be slowed down, however, I have a quick and easy solution. You should give it to me immediately. I would not want you to suffer another day with a car that was too fast:)

junkher

Before the advent of torque converter clutches and "Learning" transmissions,auto transmissions would shift based on throttle position and vacuum. Each and every time it behaved the same.. WE learned to make our cars behave in a particular manner! Now that they are so dang smart, they drive me nuts by behaving in what can only be described as a totally random shift sequence. If your spouse drives awhile then you drive differently, the car (not just Subies) shifts like crap. With torque converter clutches thrown into the mess, and engineers programming shifts to get the "best mileage possible", what they have created is an annoyance and one more thing to drive ya nuts.

Does anyone LIKE these computer operated trannies?

ender27

I love my 2002 Subaru Forester S (5 spd) and have had very few problems with it. But there is one problem that is glaring, and it is the clutch. The problem is much worse when the weather is cold, but when I go to shift I get what I can only describe as clutch "chatter". I don't mean a noise but the car does not accelerate and instead starts shuddering, and I have to depress the clutch again and let up very slowly. This is most noticeable when starting from the line in first gear, or when downshifting. This usually happens when the car is just started up and seems to go away once the car is warmed up.

But the fact of the matter is, the car doesn't shift smoothly anyway. I'd like to think I'm an intelligent guy, and I've driven several stick shift cars continuously over the course of 10 years.. But I find it rather difficult to get the car to shift smoothly in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, no matter if it warmed up or not.

I've tried the whole 800-SUBARU3 thing. They note that they are aware of this, but will not or cannot tell me if there is a fix. They refer me to the dealer, there are two in my area (Indpls, IN) Tom Wood and Duke Gold's Speedway. Both of these dealerships drove the car and, of course, they can't find any problem. So I wait and try again. And of course they can't find a problem. Over and over again, I look like a jerk to the dealership for taking the car in with a "nonexistent" problem and they act as if they've never run into this problem before. As if they have never ever heard of this happening on any of their cars.

In warmer weather the problem exists but it's not as glaringly obvious, so I'm stuck living with it until it gets cold, at which point I'll have to take off work (again) and try to get them to take the car out first thing in the morning and drive it immediately.

How many of you are having the same trouble? I mean other people notice it when they drive my car, why can't any of the technicians over what must be 8 trips to two different dealerships for the same problem? Why do the dealerships act like they have no idea what I'm talking about? Am I just crazy?

ender27

To the Subaru Team:

VIN is JF1SF65542G745350 if you want to look up my records.

jfl

Jon,

I'm using Redline 75W90NS in the tranny and Redline 75W90 in the diffy.

Here's their website: www.redlineoil.com

It was a difficult decision for me between Redline and Amsoil for gear oil. I think both are good products.

Jim

paisan

Any particular reason for the NS in the tranny and non-NS in the diffy?

-mike

subaru_team

I'm sorry about the problem. I did find your case and it looks like the Rep. advised Tom Wood Subaru of what to do, but we didn't have any case activity after that. I'm sorry we didn't follow-up on the issue.

There isn't a phone number on your case, so we can't call you. Can you please call back into us? I'll speak to the Rep. and see what we can do this morning.

Once again - I'm sorry. I'm sure we'll be able to do something.

Patti

jlemole

I think the "NS" stands for "non-slip". It doesn't have certain friction modifiers required for limited slip diffs. I don't have a manual tranny, so I'm not sure how the NS behaves in a manual gearbox, but the redline site recommends it for the manual tranny.

Decisions, decisions....

Jon

P.S. 80 mph on the West Side drive? You are a madman (or your car can fly!). Anyone remember when the West Side Drive was an elevated road, like the Gowanus?

Jon

paisan

The SVX was flyin over the bumps a bit. There is only 1 or 2 sections still elevated. Had a fun ride down from westchester after doing an install Taconic->Sawmill->HH->Westside Highway, even had a nice run with an STi down the Saw Mill. I think he was suprised to see an SVX stick on his tail like glue

-mike

paisan

Just checked through their site, it appears that the NS should be used in both the tranny and the diffys on the subies (except for the STi rear diffy)
-mike

bluesubie

I have the regular Redline 75W90 in my rear diff as well. I don't think it really makes a difference though, since our rear diffs are sealed viscous units anyway (except for the STi's).

-Dennis

03xngreen

Actually, I like the thinking transmission. It’s nice to have a companion on long trips.

forestergump

Proof:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030818/misc/18help.htm?track=r- ss

fryingbologna

This Edmunds site is informative, helpful and has my back, too! Thanks to Patti and Edmunds... and the rest of you posting as well. The feeling of community from the Subaru owners is great, and puts me more at ease when thinking of owning my first Subaru.

stoner420

Sounds a lot like the common '02 Impreza 'clutch judder' issue, for which there is a TSB released whereby they are supposed to replace your clutch for free... I had mine done recently, and it's loads better.

kens

Wow, that's cool reading about Patti. Man, I can't believe a mechanic damaged a part and tried to cover it up! Go get em, Patti!

Ken

andrewf2

Heres an extract from message 1199:
"TSB, # 03-51-02, dated 1/15/03, which prescribed replacent of flywheel, disc and pressure plate with updated parts on all '99 - '03 vehicles with a shudder problem"

I had a similar problem on my '02 outback, and I dropped it off at the dealer, and left it there overnight. They test drove it in the morning while it was still cold, confirmed the problem, and fixed it a few days later. Its been great ever since.

If your dealer says that they don't know anything about, quote the TSB number and ask them to look into it.

-Andrew

ender27

Well I know there is a TBS but thanks for posting the actual number of it. I should point out that SUBARU3 was very helpful and they have notified both Tom Wood and Duke Gold Speedway of the issue.

My point of frustration has been that in order to replace the parts, the dealer of course has to confirm it. And apparently out of eight different trips, they all say they can't find any problem whatsoever. And even though they are advised of the TBS they still act like they've never even heard of this.

And because the problem is muted in warm weather I can't do it until a few months from now where I suppose I will have to force the technician to ride with me first thing in the morning.

Thanks for the reply Patti, I'll probably try when it gets colder out, and we'll see what we can do. I'd like to get it fixed sooner but alas it takes a lot of effort to get the car to the dealership and be without a car all day and until I know it's going to do it the next morning, it probably isn't worth it. However if you feel something can be accomplished, let me know. Thanks

anselmo1

I have read various publications stating that Toyotas and Hondas are tops in reliability. Personally, I have owned Hondas all my life and found them to be quite reliable up until 1998. Then I noticed, a downward shift in reliability.

Are Subarus as reliable as Hondas or Toyotas? I live in an area of the country where you really need an all wheel drive vehicle and have been considering Subaru and Toyota.

subaru_team

and less agg. for you. The case is active, so we can work on it whenever it's good for you.

Stoner (aka Howard Stern) - don't you drive an Audi?? ;-)

FYI - just so people understand, a TSB doesn't necessarily equate to a "free" repair. If a manufacturer had to pay for a repair everytime they found a way to "improve" a part or the repair procedure, I'd suspect that they'd stop seeking improvements. That being said, if the concern is documented in warranty, the dealer will usually work with you - or you can call us! I'm glad it worked out well for you!

Patti

jfl

Jon is correct in that NS does not have the slip agents and is better for the syncros.

The 75W90 gear oil meets GL-5 specs and that's why I used it in the rear diffy but I'm sure both would work.

Jim

john284

Well, I have problems with cold-clutch-shudder ever since I got the 2001 sub forester new, somehow the dealer never put it on record (I brought the car in a couple of times, they also fail to record replacing my O2 sensor, talking about lousy bookkeeping), so when I start parking the car outside(instead of parking in my garage), the cold-clutch-shudder came back, but too late, Patti said the dealer has no record, so she couldnt help me since my car is out of 3/36k warrantee. Well, Subaru just lost a customer, ever since then, I have got my wife a brand new Honda Accord (instead of a Legacy which I like a lot), and I am on my way to help my sister to buy another Honda..., Byebye, Subaru, you will learn a good lesson from now on..., the lesson is: when the customer says go against dealer says, customer wins, otherwise you lose.

john284

hypov

john284-
sorry to hear 'bout your experience.
I'm curious though. Didn't you check the paper work on what was purportedly done by the Dealer?
I guess you learnt a lesson there too... that is, having shot yourself in the foot. You should have made sure that your issues are documented in your copy.

Fair is fair, they [Dealer] screwed up; but you helped it along ;-)

-Dave

john284

But I just know that the dealer is a weasel, there must be a reason for them not to put O2 sensor replacement on the record, let alone my complaint, what could you do, if the dealer wont get the complaint on the record, do I need to drop off the car nine times over night to get it on record? I dont want to beg, I could save my pride and find another better car! When I dont have chance with you, I still got choices. Guess what, this dealer sells almost all types of cars, except Honda.